Umm yes, I use international comparisons as there's only one incumbent or to give them their full name incumbent local exchange carrier in a territory. In the UK its KCOM in Hull and BT everywhere else. There literally can't be another incumbent only competitors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incumbent_local_exchan...

I didn't say anything about whether things should be fair or not. You complained about something being unfair, not me. Openreach are behaving exactly as I would expect them to. A competitor rocks up it immediately changes the business case.

Incidentally this constant denial that Openreach prioritise areas when alternative networks rock up is tiresome. Of course they do and it's seen time after time where towns not previously on Openreach lists see unannounced FTTP build almost immediately a competitor announces/commences build. It would be negligent of Openreach not to given that, as you said, it's just business.

Given that most of your post is about something I didn't actually say it's quite difficult to respond. It seems likely you work for Openreach as some kind of engineer in the field so inevitably aren't going to be a fan of alternative networks using their assets.

For all these alleged advantages altnets have over Openreach they clearly don't count for that much given Openreach are building faster than everyone else put together, including Liberty Global and CityFibre. Looks like Openreach have some serious advantages somewhere. Incumbency and all that comes with it can't be bought.

Small edit to comment on pricing: a number of the deals are loss leaders to try and get some take up going. This also comes with a reminder of what scale can bring: do you know what CityFibre charge? I do, and even though the products aren't directly equivalent Openreach Equinox comes mightily close. An altnet building almost exclusively in large towns and cities can barely undercut Openreach, who are building all over.

Fact is we won't have a clue how this all works out until consolidation kicks in. I believe PIA is vital to producing infrastructure competition across as much of the UK as possible, and a necessary remedy that benefits consumers and CPs, you don't, and that's cool.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Sat 14-May-22 15:24:29)

In reply to a post by jpm:

My utopian ideal would have been each local authority building and maintaining a duct network and then all providers utilising it.

Not sure why my reply 'disappeared', I'll try again.

I think you might mean dystopian, certainly having our local authority involved in anything like this would be a nightmare.

Your reply to me was


Wouldn't call it peppercorn rent. Comparable to the passive products other telcos offer
You don’t mention incumbents at all,


Your fixed statement
Wouldn't call it peppercorn rent. Comparable to the passive products other nations incumbent telcos offer,
If that were your post I probably wouldn’t have commented further , but now you have clarified , yes they also have no choice to offer PIA , and no doubt the Alt Nets in those country’s also only pay peppercorn rent, and in the context of the OP question, if CF infrastructure was also subject to PIA , then perhaps other Alt Net Telcos could use it and negate the need to dig up the roads and footpaths again.

To use your logic , if being critical of PIA I must work for Openreach , then you presumably must work for an Alt Net that uses PIA.

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 14-May-22 16:17:54)

All

If I only had a pound for every time this topic was discussed and the same opinions (as now) were posted. Would be simpler to post a link to the old threads as it just seems like deja vu.

Hope everyone is enjoying their Saturday in the sun

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The opposite happens. As soon as a competitor turns up Openreach start building themselves much of the time.

In the town where I’m sat right now, there are two Altnets (one PIA, one not) happily tearing up these mean streets to provide service, and already providing service in some places. The only place which has Openreach provided FTTP is a block of flats.
Your statement is not correct.

I said 'much of the time' not 'all of the time'.

So you made a generalisation, I believe your generalisation is generally wrong.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So you made a generalisation, I believe your generalisation is generally wrong.

Yeah I'm not going to waste time pursuing this one. Have a good weekend, Zarjaz.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So you made a generalisation, I believe your generalisation is generally wrong.

Yeah I'm not going to waste time pursuing this one. Have a good weekend, Zarjaz.

When you've been rumbled, shut the topic down?

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

....Swisscom come to mind immediately as telcos offering similar.

I do like the Swisscom model - point-2-point fibre to the premises and tails to the ISP...Pascal let's do that crazy 25G to the home thing!OK happy days

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

When you've been rumbled, shut the topic down?

When it's clear there's nowhere for the topic to go leaving it be. If you feel otherwise and wish to flog this dead horse that's your call. I stand by what I said, I'm sure Zarjaz does what he said, we do not and won't agree, that's life. 🙂

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

....Swisscom come to mind immediately as telcos offering similar.

I do like the Swisscom model - point-2-point fibre to the premises and tails to the ISP...Pascal let's do that crazy 25G to the home thing!OK happy days

Me too! Just one infrastructure, off the same distribution point your can end up with a customer on Swisscom XGSPON next door to one with 25GBASE-BX, who is in turn next door to someone with a budget GPON service.

Larger businesses could aggregate links using their own equipment at the ODF and resell the portfolio nationally. No need for them to inerconnect at every ODF.

GPON, having been in production since 2006/7 is probably overdue for an upgrade, however the NTU are really cheap, the XGSPON CPE cost quite a bit more.

Just for the audience again: yes, when you have that CityFibre or Openreach full fibre install that new ONU is very small. It's also really cheap, and using technology for 15 years ago.