We are not French!!!!!!

In reply to a post by jpm:

In addition to this, if there's a country-wide power outage that lasts three weeks then the availability of your internet service won't be in the top 100 considerations.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Of course it will .... all those millions who will not be able to use Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok &c to post pictures of empty fridges, being wrapped up in 19 layers, ... they will be riotting.

For this winter past winter at least they dodged a bullet. It was mild and there were no severe storms. If we'd run low of gas it may have been a far more immediate, pressing and problematic issue.

They wont let the supermarkets run dry though - civil unrest in 72 hours if you cant get bog roll let alone food

In reply to a post by Dassa:

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Do the alt nets have any Ofcom requirements over resilience ?

I believe that, if they provide internet access then, as a minimum, clause A3.2 of the "General Conditions of Entitlement" applies which says:

A3.2 Regulated Providers must take all necessary measures to ensure:
(a) the fullest possible availability of Voice Communications Services and Internet Access Services provided over Public Electronic Communications Networks in the event of catastrophic network breakdown or in cases of force majeure; and
(b) uninterrupted access to Emergency Organisations as part of any Voice Communications Services offered.

That, as written, is a very strong requirement - if the network fails during a power failure then by definition the requirement has not been met. The word "reasonable" doesn't feature in the text so if the network would fail after a three week country wide power failure then they have failed to meet that requirement and are in breach of their license.

I suspect that Ofcom's enforcement approach doesn't match the strength of the regulation however.

Thanks for the update. I was pretty sure there were from memory, just really didn't fancy the trawl through the bowels of the Ofcom site and/or Communications Act stuff on.gov.uk

What is interesting is that it has been brought up to date in recent iterations, such that the availability of service obligations specifically include "Voice Communications Services and Internet Access Services" and the scope of ‘Regulated Provider’ has likewise been extended.

In previous iterations it was solely fixed voice related which as we now know makes up a relatively tiny proportion of what fixed line communaitions network carry.

"This condition aims to ensure the fullest possible availability of public communications services at all times, including in the event of a disaster or catastrophic network failure, and uninterrupted access to emergency organisations. It requires providers of call services to ensure that calls can be made to emergency organisations free of charge and to make caller location information available to emergency organisations where technically feasible. It also includes specific rules relating to providers of VoIP outbound call services which aim to ensure that users of those services are aware of any potential limitations on making calls to emergency organisations and that accurate and up-to-date caller location information can be provided to the emergency organisations where possible."

I think the statement above as taken from the top of section A3 in The General Conditions makes it unequivocally clear that there is an obligation to provide a resilient and available network and not just cheap it out as many Alt Nets are doing.

In reply to a post by bsg017:

In my case when upgrading from FTTC to FTTP with Vodafone I explicitly agreed to removal of the copper after the installation was complete. However the OpenReach team installing the fibre cracked the copper connection while installing the fibre (tugged it to see if it was in a buried duct) but the broadband continued working. They repaired it and installed the fibre ready for connection.
Then a different OpenReach team installing fibre next door cracked our copper again (without interrupting broadband) apparently by damaging an original junction box in the duct along the street! Finally, several days later, I was connected to FTTP and have been promised some compensation for about 10 days without a landline telephone. In fact the OR engineer who activated the FTTP did not connect the telephone as it was not included on his jobsheet and it took another few days before the necessary adjustments were made by Vodafone.

I think the moral of the story there is get the landline number shifted to run over the top of the new and reliable fibre connection rather than the creaking, breaking copper network asap.

I agree with getting the phone over the fibre connection but that does not happen automatically when fibre is installed - it is an optional extra. Although it was part of my original order, in my case it took several days after broadband activation to get the necessary changes made. I think the main technical fact I learned is that the local 60 year old copper network is fragile and closing of the PSTN is likely justifiable on reliability grounds. (I did not say in my original post that the OR engineer sent to trace the first fault in the copper wire snapped it entirely while probing, and I had 36 hours without either telephone or broadband over the PTSN.)

Mine was removed despite my landline not being part of my ISP package. I did WANT it removed though as I had always planned to migrate it over to VoIP once FTTP was installed, so it was a happy mistake by the installer for me which technically I could have claimed compensation for but didn't bother.

For anyone not specifically migrating to a VoIP/Digital Voice service or with the landline not part of their broadband contract, it should definitely not be removed. I think part of the problem is most installs being done with third-party contractors.

Edited by alexatkin (Tue 18-Apr-23 02:03:54)

In reply to a post by alexatkin:

Mine was removed despite my landline not being part of my ISP package. I did WANT it removed though as I had always planned to migrate it over to VoIP once FTTP was installed, so it was a happy mistake by the installer for me which technically I could have claimed compensation for but didn't bother.

For anyone not specifically migrating to a VoIP/Digital Voice service or with the landline not part of their broadband contract, it should definitely not be removed. I think part of the problem is most installs being done with third-party contractors.

Indeed for one of my Friends they had a landline but only because at the time it was cheaper to order a landline + the broadband than SOGEA was (Yeh I don't understand that either). So they didn't really care that it was removed as they never actually used it for voice.