It's been done before.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/01/comple...

I think we are too far down the road for that. There will be problems around liability and how automatic compensation scheme works around delays due to who owns what part of the network. Can't see too many landlords wanting to get involved with telecoms.

Interesting. Thanks. 🙏

Probably yeah. Just thinking out loud after one too many sherries last night 😅

Maybe if *Openreach* were allowed to install fibre inside all MDUs, but other operators who came up to the distribution frame were permitted to plug into it and rent at cost (PIA-style), it could work.

That would also solve the issue of Altnets throwing their toys out of the pram if OR gets the automatic right to upgrade copper to fibre in MDUs:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/openre...

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Maybe if *Openreach* were allowed to install fibre inside all MDUs, but other operators who came up to the distribution frame were permitted to plug into it and rent at cost (PIA-style), it could work.

Maybe it would work in the large tower blocks, but my housing assoc has quite a lot of smaller blocks, there isn't any such infrastructure in these buildings for shared cabling (or space to add anything).

Even trying to upgrade the openreach 1970s copper I assume would be an abandon and fit externally.

Indeed. That’s in essence the the good old “dark fibre to the premises” (can I lay claim to the acronym DFTP 😜) model we’ve discussed on here from time to time. Just pushed out farther into the network rather than a distribution frame at the exchange.

As @witchunt says, perhaps that has passed us by now. Well I know it has really.

In my minds eye I was imaging a multi story tower block (perhaps a bit less Singapore-esque than the Canary Wharf towers in the link above) configuration.

But I realise there are dozens, if not hundreds of permutations and combinations that fall under the “MDU” umbrella. It’s an extremely broad church and incredibly diverse to try and capture it all within a single ‘solution’. Very challenging.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In my minds eye I was imaging a multi story tower block (perhaps a bit less Singapore-esque than the Canary Wharf towers in the link above) configuration.

The big cities have these of course, and they will have facilities rooms/cupboards just for the electrics nevermind lifts etc.

But I realise there are dozens, if not hundreds of permutations and combinations that fall under the “MDU” umbrella. It’s an extremely broad church and incredibly diverse to try and capture it all within a single ‘solution’. Very challenging.

From the purpose built small blocks (2 and 3 story) without any lift, or shared infrastructure, to the large victorian home conversions that include corporate office style structured cabling, I'm sure every combination is out there.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I've had a look at some comparisons and you simply can't choose anything decent for under £30 a month.

2 examples you see here with OFNL. https://www.mthnetworks.com/internet-ofnl/

MTH Networks OFNL package

900 Mbps
900/900

Download - 900Mbps
Upload - 900Mbps
Unlimited Bandwidth
Full UK Based Support
Prices Locked In Contract

£57 | month

That's not out of the ballpark. For a good quality Openreach-based provider, I'd expect to pay ~£55 per month for 1000/120. Anyone who claims a headline price significantly lower than that is likely hiding the true price via in-contract price rises. (For example, EE starts at £45, which becomes £48 then £51 by the end of the contract)

Altnets doing deals at £30 are all very well if you have them available, but not everyone does. Of course, if you can, you should take advantage - while they are burning their venture capital!

Well actually after doing some searching I found out that Vodafone are offering 1000/120 for £36 a month with £85 voucher, which is basically the equivalent of £32.46!

Vodafone
Online exclusive Full Fibre 910
New customers only Offer Ends 06/01/2025 Price locked until April 2025
£85 voucher

920Mb-1000Mb expected speed

No setup costs

24 month contract

£36.00
per month

(Prices may change during contract)
£32.46
Avg. monthly cost


Onestream
Hyperstream Full Fibre 1000
New customers only Router price not included. Router rental from £4.95 per month

920Mb-1000Mb expected speed

No setup costs

24 month contract

£28.00
per month

(Prices may change during contract)
£28.00
Avg. monthly cost

And here I also found Onestream doing 1Gbps for £28 a month! Even I am surprised to see this and that's also under Openreach. Ok, this does not include router. I'm ok with that, at least I can buy a high end router.

Their 200Mbps is £20 and 150Mbps is £18 a month. Similarly Vodafone are offering 200Mbps £21.88 Avg. monthly cost with the £75 voucher.

These offers I'll certainly accept as best alternatives if Openreach FTTP became available. Now maybe they are not good quality or trustworthy Openreach providers but if it is FTTP it can't be a big mistake.

But the same cannot be said if I had OFNL. Even if we ignored the gigabit packages and only concentrated on basic 80/20Mbps these cost £31.80. With 40/10 starting at £28.20 with MTH Networks and Merula it is £30 for 40/10 and £32.99 for 80/20. It's not like I'm intentionally picking them as the most expensive. There's simply no cheap ISP on OFNL that can give you £20-25 a month deal even for basic 40-100Mbps packages.

OFNL are probably the most expensive wholesale network provider in the UK. I'd be very much interested to know if there are some more expensive providers compared to them. It is no surprise that the OP wants to know when Openreach will become available.

Even if we were to concentrate only on Wholesale Altnets you will find that you get reasonable prices that won't break your bank anywhere under Openreach, CityFibre, Freedom Fibre and Netomnia. All offering packages for around £20 a month. The contract price hikes will indeed increase but at least there's some hope of finding a new deal at the end of the contract. Also, if it jumps only by a few quid then that's also fine by me.

But what is not fine is having to pay £35 per month for 100Mbps, which is what OFNL are doing with all their ISPs! That's unacceptable considering that they don't even appear anywhere in Uswitch, MoneySuperMarket, Go.Compare, etc so you won't even get vouchers included. They are supposed to be Ofcom regulated but their prices are anything but.