I agree.
i think we are all agreeing that OR could do better in the commication side, and whilst the ceo team are fab, many issue are arriving there when they shouldn't. As somebody who can see both sides, instantly providing the ceo email or suggesting as such maybe some of use could reframe a little.

The thing is, and here’s the thing …. many ‘lower down the food chain’ are driven by those who only look to keep costs down, or wish to look good to the stats wallahs who abound in many large businesses these days.

Many’s the time you’d prove a fault into a cable length that had been going down for some time …. The pressure to get the fault cleared is high, so you swap out, and hope it doesn’t repeat for a month …. This pleases many, but doesn’t address the underlying issue. Staff were measured by many different metrics, and these would often change within months. Furthering (on for additional work, a different department, etc) may well be the correct thing to do…. but your dweeb manager just saw that your stats were bad, or you were taking too long …..
The very best engineers are always poor performers …. and those above might well say this didn’t bother them … but it always does.

What the answer is, is something that will never happen … so in the meantime, all the company can do is have a team , will no budgets, no stats, no whip hand driving them to clear up the stuff that someone shouted loudest about.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The thing is, and here’s the thing …. many ‘lower down the food chain’ are driven by those who only look to keep costs down, or wish to look good to the stats wallahs who abound in many large businesses these days.

Many’s the time you’d prove a fault into a cable length that had been going down for some time …. The pressure to get the fault cleared is high, so you swap out, and hope it doesn’t repeat for a month …. This pleases many, but doesn’t address the underlying issue. Staff were measured by many different metrics, and these would often change within months. Furthering (on for additional work, a different department, etc) may well be the correct thing to do…. but your dweeb manager just saw that your stats were bad, or you were taking too long …..
The very best engineers are always poor performers …. and those above might well say this didn’t bother them … but it always does.

What the answer is, is something that will never happen … so in the meantime, all the company can do is have a team , will no budgets, no stats, no whip hand driving them to clear up the stuff that someone shouted loudest about.

Again a very very good set of comments and in a large corporation, like OR about 1000% true. And add to this, any large corp will have show stoppers especially entities like OR. But also its worth asking these questions, they are valid

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The thing is, and here’s the thing …. many ‘lower down the food chain’ are driven by those who only look to keep costs down, or wish to look good to the stats wallahs who abound in many large businesses these days.

Many’s the time you’d prove a fault into a cable length that had been going down for some time …. The pressure to get the fault cleared is high, so you swap out, and hope it doesn’t repeat for a month …. This pleases many, but doesn’t address the underlying issue. Staff were measured by many different metrics, and these would often change within months. Furthering (on for additional work, a different department, etc) may well be the correct thing to do…. but your dweeb manager just saw that your stats were bad, or you were taking too long …..
The very best engineers are always poor performers …. and those above might well say this didn’t bother them … but it always does.

What the answer is, is something that will never happen … so in the meantime, all the company can do is have a team , will no budgets, no stats, no whip hand driving them to clear up the stuff that someone shouted loudest about.

And there speaks a man who knows.

In reply to a post by rippedcotton:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The thing is, and here’s the thing …. many ‘lower down the food chain’ are driven by those who only look to keep costs down, or wish to look good to the stats wallahs who abound in many large businesses these days.

Many’s the time you’d prove a fault into a cable length that had been going down for some time …. The pressure to get the fault cleared is high, so you swap out, and hope it doesn’t repeat for a month …. This pleases many, but doesn’t address the underlying issue. Staff were measured by many different metrics, and these would often change within months. Furthering (on for additional work, a different department, etc) may well be the correct thing to do…. but your dweeb manager just saw that your stats were bad, or you were taking too long …..
The very best engineers are always poor performers …. and those above might well say this didn’t bother them … but it always does.

What the answer is, is something that will never happen … so in the meantime, all the company can do is have a team , will no budgets, no stats, no whip hand driving them to clear up the stuff that someone shouted loudest about.

And there speaks a man who knows.

The minute you give people in the management chain targets (particularly if things like performance-related pay or bonuses come into play) you start driving inappropriate behaviour. The management focus changes from running an efficient customer-facing business to achieving personal targets which may actually involve behaviours that are contrary to what would benefit the business the most.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

The minute you give people in the management chain targets (particularly if things like performance-related pay or bonuses come into play) you start driving inappropriate behaviour. The management focus changes from running an efficient customer-facing business to achieving personal targets which may actually involve behaviours that are contrary to what would benefit the business the most.

Absolutely. People will game the system. It is very hard to avoid 'perverse incentives'. Some great examples here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive including the rat eradication program which paid a bounty for rat's tails. Unfortunately, the tails were cut off and the rats allowed to go free, because obviously, killing the rats would stop them breeding and cut off access to the bounty.

The minute you give people in the management chain targets (particularly if things like performance-related pay or bonuses come into play) you start driving inappropriate behaviour. The management focus changes from running an efficient customer-facing business to achieving personal targets which may actually involve behaviours that are contrary to what would benefit the business the most.

Well said.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The thing is, and here’s the thing …. many ‘lower down the food chain’ are driven by those who only look to keep costs down, or wish to look good to the stats wallahs who abound in many large businesses these days.

Many’s the time you’d prove a fault into a cable length that had been going down for some time …. The pressure to get the fault cleared is high, so you swap out, and hope it doesn’t repeat for a month …. This pleases many, but doesn’t address the underlying issue. Staff were measured by many different metrics, and these would often change within months. Furthering (on for additional work, a different department, etc) may well be the correct thing to do…. but your dweeb manager just saw that your stats were bad, or you were taking too long …..
The very best engineers are always poor performers …. and those above might well say this didn’t bother them … but it always does.

What the answer is, is something that will never happen … so in the meantime, all the company can do is have a team , will no budgets, no stats, no whip hand driving them to clear up the stuff that someone shouted loudest about.

Not always ... if the manager has come from an engineering background - there will be an understanding.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Best way sent letter via email to Openreach CEO Clive Selley [removed by tbb]

Isn't the CEO Katie Milligan?

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

Isn't the CEO Katie Milligan?

No she isn't. She will be from 1st April 2026, Best read all the article before you come here and make a comment like that

Edited by PCJM40 (Wed 11-Feb-26 12:51:18)