Free Broadband End Threat from Orange

Has anybody managed to stop Orange from shutting off their free broadband? Any advice/tips/contacts to achieve this?

Several family and friends have received letters from Orange saying their free broadband is coming to an end, along with the threat that if they do not sign up to Orange's line rental and call package, then their Broadband will be cut off at a specified date.

Surely this isn't allowed?

Under the T&Cs of the offer and Orange Broadband account, the free broadband offer shall remain for as long as you have an eligible mobile plan. The mobile contracts have all been renewed with the explicit enticement/promise of free broadband with it, and we all have the printed contract summaries from Orange with the free broadband offer listed on there as part of the plan.

(As expected, phoning Orange Home is a nightmare, with their usual mix of lies, rudeness and disdain to the customer...)

They have conveniently left exactly less than two months, which means an absolute impossibility to refer to CISAS before the broadband is shut off.

Thanks

Gone to a 3rd party e.g. CAB with the contracts to get a third opinion.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

They have conveniently left exactly less than two months, which means an absolute impossibility to refer to CISAS before the broadband is shut off.

Why is it impossible? All you need is a deadlock letter from them in response to a formal written complaint to go to their ADR organization. Don't phone!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

They have conveniently left exactly less than two months, which means an absolute impossibility to refer to CISAS before the broadband is shut off.

Why is it impossible? All you need is a deadlock letter from them in response to a formal written complaint to go to their ADR organization. Don't phone!

Cos of this: "Dear xxxx, Thank you for your request. As the removal of a free product is a business decision we are unable to offer customers deadlock to take the matter to independent arbitration"

Sending a formal complaint letter recorded delivery for each account was one of the first things we did. They didn't engage with the complaint other than to repeat what will happen, and to refuse deadlock.

That's devious! It's like deliberately circumventing the CISAS process. Worth bringing it to attention of CISAS.

Did you "stage 2: escalating the complaint" to Customer Service Team Leader, and if still unresolved a Customer Service Manager?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

That's devious! It's like deliberately circumventing the CISAS process. Worth bringing it to attention of CISAS.

Did you "stage 2: escalating the complaint" to Customer Service Team Leader, and if still unresolved a Customer Service Manager?

Yeah, tried all that. It basically ends with the manager telling you in as rude a way as possible that Orange can do what they want, and here's the complaint address if you really want it - but don't bother cos they'll only write back and tell you the same.

Found big thread about this on MoneySavingExpert.

I can sense a losing/rigged battle when I see one... Oh well !

You've already lost! Orange are within their rights:

In reference to web.orange.co.uk/documents/ice/termsandconditions/terms.pdf:

18. Orange reserves the right to replace, amend or withdraw this Offer on reasonable notice.

but I can't see that they should terminate your BB; just start charging for it, unless you terminate it yourself.

Don�t be too downhearted, if you have an Orange mobile phone contract, you get Orange home broadband 50% FREE!

https://broadband.orange.co.uk/home

Not if you don't want to had over your line, which notification letter insists on.

OFFER is a key word there. They made an offer to the customer which the customer accepted and that it becomes contractual. They would withdraw/amend the offer but that would only be for customers who had not accepted the offer.

Interesting slant!

The offer and its acceptance are the contract. The withdrawal of the offer, within its own T&Cs, ceases the contract.

EDIT: The offer was available until 2007 (that's what would only be for customers who had not accepted the offer). but it was not withdrawn until now

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 09-Oct-12 15:52:56)

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

(As expected, phoning Orange Home is a nightmare, with their usual mix of lies, rudeness and disdain to the customer...)

Well then why on god's green earth would you want yourself or anyone you like to continue having their service with them?

In regards to your broadband contract, they are well within their rights to do this. You have no cause to complain about the broadband service.

With respect to your telephone contract you could consider that you purchased the contract based on the clause regarding free broadband and now that the have edited the terms of your service in such a way that it devalues it more than the increase in the retail price index said contract is now void as they have breached the terms / withdrawn from said contract.

You would need to raise this as a formal written complaint and have CISAS adjudicate as Orange WON'T back down, but CISAS may agree and allow you to leave your mobile phone contract early to facilitate your being able to choose another provider whom you consider to offer better value.

It's a worthwile complaint to consider but you'll have to fight tooth and nail.

I'd still expect to loose though, they only offered it as a free gift, no guarantees or contractual obligation on their side to continue providing the serivce.

For that matter, even paid for ADSL is a best efforts service - if it went down for three months but they'd been "trying to fix it" for that time technically you'd still be contractually obliged to pay.

This is why it makes sense to opt for a reputable provider, not the free / cheap option.

Remember, pay peanuts, get monkeys.

Be glad to be rid of one of the worst ISPs to ever muddy the face of British broadband services and thank your lucky stars that you've been given the kick up the rear you need to invest a minimal amount of spare change in a service that actually has a support structure.

Edited by deleted (Wed 17-Oct-12 04:44:06)

You don't have a clue what you're talking about mate, either when it comes to contract law or OFCOM regs for service termination or broadband services in the UK. just look at your ISP of choice! someone sure fell for the investing in network capacity marketing copy! Thanks for your input.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

You don't have a clue what you're talking about mate, either when it comes to contract law or OFCOM regs for service termination or broadband services in the UK. just look at your ISP of choice! someone sure fell for the investing in network capacity marketing copy! Thanks for your input.

You're just angry because you're losing your free broadband.

I am only clarifying the situation, not making the rules.

What's wrong with my ISP of choice? Do you think it is BE's fault that my speed is what it is? It's you dear that have a limited understanding.

My broadband speed is limited by my physical line length - I live on the edge of the citiy on a long line - and given my line attenuation of 49dB you can be guaranteed that in fact BE offer the fastest available speed on my line.

Why? Because only they allow the line to be configured with a 3dB noise margin and fast path. No other ISP in the land allows this any more ergo my sync rate would be slower than any other provider, even O2, as O2 force interleaving.

Did that make sense or just fly over the top of your head?

I know it's frustrating to loose your free broadband but seriously there's nothing you can do about it.

And whilst I am the last to want to come to Orange's aid - they are the scurge of the face of internet in this country - they are making a wise decision to give everyone just under eight weeks notice.

Why? Because even if CISAS find Orange in the right and rule against the complainant, Orange still get lumped with a £500 bill, which in this instance, wouldn't be fair, they're acting as per the terms their customer's agreed to.

Don't get pissy with the othe members of the forum just becase you don't fully understand what you agreed to.

In reply to a post by izools:

Why? Because only they allow the line to be configured with a 3dB noise margin and fast path. No other ISP in the land allows this any more

Not true! All BTw WBC based ISPs, incl. Orange, do this and, not only that, they do it auto, not with you fiddling around with your router.

BE provide the options to change these settings via the account web page - not required to change router settings. I wasnt aware of any WBC based ISP who provided that level of configuration without having to raise tickets etc (but | could be wrong).

The BE entry level product (BE value) doesnt provide that and the "BE unlimited" product that does costs £5.00 extra (and provides static IP). BE Value has a speed cap (12 Mb/s) so is great for those with longer lines.

Had BE for a few years and liked it a lot but they seem to be suffering due to Telefonica / O2 ownership

In reply to a post by greenglide:

Had BE for a few years and liked it a lot but they seem to be suffering due to Telefonica / O2 ownership

I agree with you Greenglide I also had BE for a number of years as it was one of the hottest ISP's around at the time but I dropped it like a hot potato..! like so many others did as it seems to of gone down hill big time..! and as you say it all points to the Telefonica / O2 ownership...!

Edited by deleted (Wed 17-Oct-12 17:06:22)

Even Sky can offer this now on stable lines as part of the DLM. No fussing.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 17-Oct-12 18:22:32)

Yep they starved the network of investment.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by izools:

Why? Because only they allow the line to be configured with a 3dB noise margin and fast path. No other ISP in the land allows this any more

Not true! All BTw WBC based ISPs, incl. Orange, do this and, not only that, they do it auto, not with you fiddling around with your router.

I thought izools didn�t know what he was talking about, not long ago you got Orange to set your connection to 3dB fastpath and then got them to switch it to interleaved, is that correct?

I should get Orange to set my connection to 3dB fastpath, currently it is 10dB fastpath, because I switch the router off overnight and when I go out for long periods in the daytime.

My Orange Bright Box router Status:
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1267 (Kbps.)
Downstream 9727 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin ...... 5.9 dB ...... 10.9 dB
Line Attenuation 15.8 dB ...... 29.0 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.3 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 30 6
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 160 4
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 30 6
Statistics:
Received Cells 95528
Transmitted Cells 17645

In reply to a post by E7er:

not long ago you got Orange to set your connection to 3dB fastpath and then got them to switch it to interleaved, is that correct?

Sort of! Not Interleaved/Fastpath; that they insist is auto by DLM. I believe I got them to release their restricted NM and let DLM do its work on it, which decided on 3 dB.

EDIT: But there are other Orange users here who report their NM @ 3 dB w/out having to call Orange. For that reason I say it is auto.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 18-Oct-12 13:18:35)

Dear Vimto Girl,

It looks like Orange revised their decision to withdraw "free" broadband. Please visit: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t...

It is a victory of many angry customers who refused to roll over.

I am not a girl!

Sorry, XRay! )

I did mean to reply to Vimto's post directly.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I am not a girl!

I liked the movie! That izools IdontlikeOrange guy from Be unlimited coming over here harassing our women.

In reply to a post by IdontlikeOrange:

Dear Vimto Girl,

It looks like Orange revised their decision to withdraw "free" broadband. Please visit: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t...

It is a victory of many angry customers who refused to roll over.

Thanks. This has been resolved for all my family and friends as of today. This is how we did it:

Emailed OFCOM with a brief complaint.
Got a case number and an immediate pre-prepared reply saying OFCOM had spoken to Orange, and that Orange would now not be cutting off anybody's broadband or forcing a change of line rental provider but would instead start charging.
Then a few weeks later came a new pre-prepared email from OFCOM saying after further complaints and discussions with OFCOM, Orange could be contacted on a special number in order to stop the new charging for the remainder of the mobile contract, in order to fulfill their legal contractual obligation.

So simple, what should have been offered in the first place, all we wanted and what we deserved.
I'm thankful to those in the MSE thread who forced OFCOM into slapping Orange's hand and getting a real result.