EE speeds - can anyone advise

Hi all. I'm a long time FS/Wanadoo/Orange/EE customer, who until recently was happy with an ADSL2+ Connection speed of around 10-11Mbps (10,000-11,000kbps). This then dropped to around 9Mbps at best, and then plummeted to ADSL type levels - the best I have seen in the last two months is 7.5Mbps, the worst 4.5Mbps. Upload has been pretty consistent at around 0.9Mbps. An oddity is that I get better connection speeds when I force the modem to ADSL2 rather than ADSL2+, though up speed remains the same. Can anyone shine any light on possible causes/reasons/EE voodoo? The has been no change in the internal wiring, though i have checked with all other phones/extensions disconnected (modem has it's own line direct to the master socket, hardwired to the extension port with the ring wire disconnected). Silent line test is nice and quiet. The situation is the same with two different modem/routers, though both are Linksys and related models. Some stats will follow. Thanks for any assistance.

Hardware - Linksys WAG354G ADSL/ADSL2+ (custom firmware)
Linksys WAG200 ADSL2/ADSL2+

Basic line stats: Linksys WAG200, firmware 1.01.09

DSL Status: Connected
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2
DSL Path Mode: Fast
Downstream Rate: 6413 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1107 kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 24 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 6.5 db
Downstream Transmit Power: 12 db
Upstream Transmit Power: 19 db

You should be getting 17 Meg on ADSL2+ or even 12 Meg on ADSL2.

This is too high, should be 6 or even 3 dB:

In reply to a post by RoguePony:

Downstream Margin: 13 db

Either you are getting lots of errors or discons, or Orange is capping you.

Does your router report any error stats?

Have you tried in hidden test socket behind faceplate?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 23-Jan-14 22:59:02)

Thanks for responding, I do appreciate it
Afraid the router doesn't give me any error stats, but I've not noticed any issues with disconnections while downloading or similar, and I play a few MMO games with no apparent issues. I havn't tried the test socket yet, but have switched out filters and disconnected the extension that carries the phones without any change. I'll try the test socket tomorrow eve when I get in from work, and report back.
I do wonder if Orange/EE are capping me, as I am on an old package (Home select, upto 20 Meg) and refuse to "upgrade" to any of their bundled packages

Hi

I also go back to FS and appear to have had the same problem.Loyalty does not count. An average of around 10mbps from April 2011 to early December 2013 then started to fall now c 6mbps. Upload a little better nearer 1mbps rather than o.7mps. Change from 2.27 and 2.30 IP address to 95.115 seems to have happened at the same time.

EE despite many e emails and contact with customer service and technical do not want to know so I have written to CEx who they say is a busy man who does not get involved with customers.

I think it must be all about money. TBB say below average for West Midlands. BBC lunchtime today say average BB speed 14mps that's a laugh!

Watched Portillo railway programme on i player 30 minutes took 40 minutes with buffering. Hopeless.
i

In reply to a post by RoguePony:

I do wonder if Orange/EE are capping me, as I am on an old package (Home select, upto 20 Meg)

I'm on same unbundled package and am getting full speeds despite a fault on my line for the last 3 weeks, being looked into.

In reply to a post by EEuser:

Change from 2.27 and 2.30 IP address to 95.115 seems to have happened at the same time

When Orange ceased LLU and went BTw. That was April 2011 for me. Is that "the same time" you meant?

Yes April 2011 Orange transferred equipment to BT without telling anyone and I had two months of pain. All my fault of course but I had to scrap all my telephone line connections in house and buy new wireless phones and escalate to the Orange Executive office before getting the 10mbps service I enjoyed to Dec 2013.

As the original post Orange user has exactly the problem I have it seems clear to me the problem is at the EE / Orange end and not at the home end. I wonder how many other people have similar problems? Looking at the TBB map of service speeds for my neighbourhood they vary from 1.31 to 110mbps yes 110! Also looking at the broadband providers list and TBB customer ratings I detect more low disatisfaction readings than before.

Righty ho - I've tried the router in the test (hidden) socket of the master socket, both direct and through a filter, and both ADSL2+ and ADSL2 (forced). Stats are below, but are consistent with the results I get on the usual wiring. It's this consistency that makes me think the issue is with Orange/EE - line problems would, I think, give more variable results (as well as being apparent on the quiet line test), while the fact that I've seen connection speeds around 10Mbps show that the line is capable of more than I currently get.
The question is what to do next - I'm loathed to try and work my way through customer support to someone who knows what they're talking about - the last time I had to do it, the operator ended up telling me that they couldn't support my non-orange router! (Which wasn't the issue - they'd "regraded" my then upto 8meg connection back to 2meg )
Anyway - the stats; Two connections each at ADSL2 and ADSL2+, both with and without a filter used.

Direct connection to master test socket:
DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand:  -- Error getting the brand
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 5165 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1063 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 21
Upstream Transmit Power: 10
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 5192 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1064000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED (ADSL2)
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 6801 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1091 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 15 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 19
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 6828 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1092000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 6385 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1079 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 19
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 6412 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1080000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 6058 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1075 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 7 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 21
Upstream Transmit Power: 10
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 6084 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1076000 Kbps

Through adsl filter:
DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 5057 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1099 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 24
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 21
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 5084 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1100000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: ADSL2+
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 5070 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1079 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 15 db
Upstream Margin: 7 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 24
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 21
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 5096 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1080000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED (ADSL2)
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: IFTN -- Infineon
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 6677 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1079 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 13 db
Upstream Margin: 6 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 19
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 6704 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1080000 Kbps

DSL Status: Up
DSL Modulation Mode: NOT TRAINED
Number of failed trainings: 1
ISP DSLAM Chipset ATUC Code & Brand: ���� -- Error getting the brand
DSP Datapump version: [7.04.03.00] Annex A
DSL Path Mode: FAST
Downstream Rate: 6545 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 1087 Kbps
Downstream Margin: 12 db
Upstream Margin: 7 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 23
Upstream Line Attenuation: 13
Downstream Transmit Power: 19
Upstream Transmit Power: 11
Downstream Max Attain Bitrate: 6572 Kbps
Upstream Max Attain Bitrate: 1088000 Kbps

Again, my thanks for your input

Hi My slowest speeds are on Saturday and Sunday evenings

Mon 20/01/14 11:57 6.09 Mbps 5.97 Mbps 1.03 Mbps
Sun 19/01/14 21:40 1.57 Mbps 6.24 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Sun 19/01/14 20:44 1.23 Mbps 6.09 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Sun 19/01/14 20:40 1.53 Mbps 6.15 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Sat 18/01/14 21:46 2.34 Mbps 6.51 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Sat 18/01/14 21:44 1.97 Mbps 6.44 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Sat 18/01/14 21:43 2.29 Mbps 6.50 Mbps 1.05 Mbps
Fri 17/01/14 22:49 6.87 Mbps 6.74 Mbps 1.03 Mbps
This evening has been around 5 and 6. I will test again tomorrow.

We appear to share the problem and a similar useless reaction from EE

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Jan-14 10:08:04)

Warning! Blank out your IP addy!

Done - deleted EE service IP addys - not mine -thanks.

In reply to a post by EEuser:

not mine

Surely they were if that was from your TBB speedtest profile.

EEuser
The variable download speeds look to be either high contention or net congestion - especially given the weekend evening times. Are there teenagers in your household? <jk> The issue I'm looking at is a lower than "normal for my line" connection/sync speed - I've not checked actual download rates in any depth, but the few tests I have run are close enough to the sync speeds to keep me happy.

Yes, your issue is congestion, not capping like OP. OP has slow sync; you have slow throughput.

Interesting that you say it started. I think, when Orange went to BTw. You may only be on a 20CN exchange. Perhaps not, your upstream is too high for that.

What exchange? Post your router stats?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 26-Jan-14 20:21:59)

Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 14.6 dB
Line Attenuation 21.2 dB 35.0 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.6 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 2806 67
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 6434 43
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 1239 52

Sorry not tabbed properly basically first figure first column. Is this what you wanted to see?

Router and service status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1231 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7015 (Kbps.)

Any comments which might help much appreciate your interest.

EE User

Exchange Location Warwick / Leamington Spa. The Ip addresses when I looked them up on IP finder gave as Orange in Scotland and Warwickshire. When I have checked addresses before the nearer the location the better the service but this could be a red herring as I am not technical.

This weekend speeds slightly better than last weekend but way below the 10.0mbps between April 2011 to early December 2013

Sun 26/01/14 22:18
5.42 Mbps 5.90 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 22:08
5.91 Mbps 5.72 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 21:41
4.64 Mbps 5.68 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 20:23
4.91 Mbps 5.80 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 17:31
5.98 Mbps 5.87 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 10:18
5.99 Mbps 5.78 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 00:04
5.98 Mbps 5.92 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Sun 26/01/14 00:03
5.99 Mbps 5.86 Mbps 1.04 Mbps
Fri 24/01/14 23:42
5.98 Mbps 5.85 Mbps 1.04 Mbps

Your speeds shown are running at around 82% of sync approx. which is normal.
Does your router show time up ( since disconnection)
From the download SNR appears you are being capped.
As you are BTW now?
can you run this test then diagnostics ( button at bottom screen )
interesting to know IP Profile and Min / Max speeds indicated for your line

www.speedtest.btwholesale.com/PerformanceTesterWS/home

EE is on BTw.

In reply to a post by flippery:

www.speedtest.btwholesale.com/PerformanceTesterWS/home

Does not compute! Use www.speedtest.btwholesale.com .

But is there any point? Last set of speedtests are, as you say, commensurate with his sync. So IPP is not restrictive.

Yes, his sync may well be capped; he should have about 11 Meg. But his main issue would seem to be slow throughput at peak times.

Received first helpful e mail from EE this morning saying technical would be able to help. After an hour on phone, no they cannot. Line speed limit seems to be 6 to 8mbps. No one can give me an answer why from April 2011 when Orange went to BTW I have received an average of 10mbps until early Dec 2013. All the usual stories about neighbours taking line capacity I have heard many times before. I have used BT speedtester on many occasions to prove TBB data. This morning it shows DL Speed 6.09 Upload 1.06 Ping 40.13 - Then Best effort the 6.09 compared to max ach speed 7.15 and acceptable range 2 to 7.15mbps. When I have had problems before I have turned router off and it switches to another IP address to provide and speeds aften vary. Recent expereince it links back to same IP. I have somewhere copies of previous speed tests which I will look out. Thanks everyone for all your help..

That does compare with my issue, a sudden drop to ADSL levels after , in my case, some six years of around 11Mbps. I have run the BT Wholesale speed/line test, and have obtained pretty much the same results - 6.01 achieved, acceptable range 2 to 7.15. And have also noted that "server hopping" to either change IP or sync speed seems to need a longer disconnection time to get a change. Can anyone confirm/deny that this has the look and feel of connection capping/management? And any ideas on best way forward to get it checked/confirmed/fixed?
Many thanks again

From the Download Attenuations and SNR you both have. I would have expected
acceptable range of 4 -21 and profile of 10+ on BT test.
With your actuals being at top end, it does not appear to be congestion but more to being managed.
I understand there are two sections within EE. Reading Card Support and Technical Support ( XRAYSPEC may have more details ). They should be able to tweak down SNR to 6 on request.

I was banded at 0- 0.25 with Freeola due to being on holiday when I switched from TT, Freeola would not reset or accept that problem was anything but noise on line. Even though my SNR was 31 on a 32 down attenuation.
I migrated to Eclipse and immediately my speed sync increased to 12.
I know EE give a good deal for mobile users and moving may not be an option.

Edited by flippery (Mon 27-Jan-14 22:56:46)

I am ever so pleased I am not alone in banging my head against a brick wall over the cut in service. Surely there must be many more people who have also had their speeds cut. What County location are you in? I have written to the CEx of EE and I think the first positive e mail from EE customer service has been prompted by its receipt. They referred me to the technical people again but the solution I believe lies outside their authority to resolve. I await a further e mail.

it's the fighting my way through "Reading card support" to get to technical support that I am trying to avoid - as I mentioned in an earlier post, being told that they "could not support my router" when the issue was unrelated has coloured my opinion
Migration may indeed be an option, as my only other link to EE is PAYG. P'raps if I contact customer services and ask for a MAC they may do something

EEuser - I'm not that far away from you - over the border in Worcestershire
Authority may indeed be the main issue - finding who has the power to request that line settings be altered outside of "normal" operating specs. I'd think that most line management would be automatic, and to override the system's choices would require someone to make a decision and take responsibilty for the outcome - not something a low level tech assist can/would do.

Hello you are right. I used to have a contact at Orange in Rotherham who was really excellent and keen to keep my custom although he was not always easy to contact. The ease of contact with EE has improved but if the answer is no every time then all pretty useless and much like the banks customer service departments.

In reply to a post by RoguePony:

Can anyone confirm/deny that this has the look and feel of connection capping/management

It smells like an unhealthy line/connection to me, your sync is way down for that attenuation and nm, 11Mbps was pretty ill too, and the nm at 13dB looks like effect not cause. How long do you usually sync for before it drops?

Swap your filter (it didn't improve sync even a little) and bag a new router from EE - if you don't see a jump you'll ultimately need a good engineer to solve this IMO - if and when they do you should be enjoying syncs closer to 20Mbps

Ip location is a red herring. It can be changed to mars and have no effect

Thanks for that. The opposite did appear to be the case looking at my data on TBB going back years.

Some providers use different gateways, and certain IP blocks are assigned to certain gateways.

So the variation was which gateway was chosen via a round robin allocation routine. This gave the effect that the IP seemed to be important but it was just another side effect of how customers were spread out across the network.

As far as I can tell, the connection is rock solid - it's just slow
I will try connecting an other router that reports uptime and check it, but my experience playing MMOs or downloading is that there are no drops. Also, there is no line noise on the quiet line test, and sync speed is bang on expected for the line profile as reported by the btwholesale tester. (In fact, the tested speed has been outperforming the profile - 6.17Mbps test v. 6.01Mbps profile; go figure )
I have tried a number of ADSL filters (having built up a collection over the years ), but sync speed is much the same with them, or without them and no phones on the line. Have also tried a couple of different ADSL leads

Oh - and did I mention that I get better sync speeds when I force the router to ADSL2 rather than ADSL2+ ?

Everything you report is consistent with a bad line (by line, I mean end to end not just the cables), and to be honest it's a dead cert given the extremely low sync speed. The only thing to rule out is the modem.

The profile follows the sync, so means nothing, and your upload is perfect so I wouldn't expect audible noise on a quiet line test - often these lines are slow but keep sync quite well too, though can take a turn for the worse at any time. A higher sync on ADSL2 despite the excellent line attenuation is a classic symptom, as is the line management switching between the two (not sure whether you have witnessed this).

In reply to a post by RoguePony:

sync speed is bang on expected for the line profile as reported by the bt wholesale tester.

Don't kid yourself! It isn't! All the BTw tester does is measure the throughput, which is the useful data part of the sync speed and is about 83% of sync, and the IP profile which is almost always 88.2% of sync. Both measures are dependent on the sync speed; the slower the sync the slower both measures are proportionally.

On your line with that attenuation you should be getting 18-19 Meg sync. The fact that you are not implies a fault on your line .

6.17Mbps test v. 6.01Mbps profile

Is impossible and is either a fault in the tester, which does happen, or they weren't taken at the same time.

Useful information thank you. Back to square one with EE today being shunted around the technical services route again. So I have responded saying I want a single point of contact and asked them to instruct someone with some authority in the UK to put my speed back to where it was in December 2013.. In April 2011 I went to the EE Press office and eventually got someone interested. He was then very good. But has now left.

May I suggest that you start a new thread? I am getting mixed up between your stats and issues, and those of the OP.

Another user has suggested I start this as a new thread. Re-cap Enjoyed average of 10mbps from April 2011 to Early December 2013. Then speed started to fall and now down to between 5 and 6mbps. Someone else on TBB from Worcestershire has a similar experience. Is this a more general experience of other EE users? Going round and round the EE Customer Service and Technical Dept loop without any progress. Having had similar problems before it feels like a deliberate cut in service by EE. Previously I have found someone to help me with authority. My search continues this time around.

Hi again XRaySpeX
I have just ran the BTWholesale test, and the "best effort" results are 6.17 down and 0.93 up. It gives 7.15 down and 0.83 up as the maximums achievable, and gives the IP profiles for the line as 6.03 up and 0.83 down. It was getting results like this that made me start wondering if the poor sync speed was something to do with EE rather than a line quality issue. Either way, I'm becoming resigned to having to deal with EE "Tech" support over the phone
Has anyone had useful outcomes from using the freephone numbers listed on "Saynoto0870" site (listed below), or do the ops just dump you back to the first level call centre?

0800 2945611 - Tech support operator
0800 1970589 - Broadband Tech support
0800 2945611 - Home Broadband services

Thanks again

Are you thinking that by changing the Subject in this thread that you have started a new thread as I suggested? That is not so! You need to start a new Post in the EE, or whichever you prefer, Forum, here: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve.html

I repeat what you have been repeatedly told: your main issue is not the same as OP's; yours is congestion at certain times, his is low sync speed.

Has anyone mentioned banding to you?

A very common thing on EE, limit sync speeds to ensure a line is nice and stable, but seems to kick in with EE a lot more than other providers

Sorry as you can see I am a bit green on use of the TBB forum. I will try again

Yes - went through this hoop way back in 2011. Orange's argument then seemed to be reasonable but the reduction in speed was not so marked.

S'OK! We all had to start sometime.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Has anyone mentioned banding to you?

A very common thing on EE, limit sync speeds to ensure a line is nice and stable, but seems to kick in with EE a lot more than other providers

The stats show a bad line.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Has anyone mentioned banding to you?

A very common thing on EE, limit sync speeds to ensure a line is nice and stable, but seems to kick in with EE a lot more than other providers

The stats show a bad line.

Why?

In reply to a post by flippery:

Why?

I explain in an earlier post.

Hi MrSaffron
I can't say that banding has been mentioned directly, but from what I understand about banded profiles it does seem to fit the situation. Are banding and capping essentially the same? And would EE customer/Tech support be able to see if my line has been banded/capped, and would they then be willing/able to remove it?

Back again....
Starting to get slightly annoyed with EE
Managed to get through to tech support after a sales cold call from Orange - managed to talk the sales rep into putting me through on their call
Spent a while explaining why I thought there was an issue, and argued the point that I wasn't asking them to support my "unsupported" router, and ignored the comments from the tech op that bad connections "are often" due to "faulty" equipment. Tech then asked for my mobile number so he could disconnected the landline to run tests - I was on the way to collect mobile when line went dead. Not too surprised, I have left things to run for over a fortnight since then, checking on the line stats occasionally and rebooting the router twice in case things were sticking. End result - same as three months ago
Sooo - do I try tech support again? Or do I call customer support and ask for a MAC - in which case, where do I go? Answers on a postcard please