In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The criterion was the number of suppliers, not the number of LLU. So BT Wholesale was and is a supplier, so BTW + Orange = at least M2 as at December 2010.

Yes, I forgot that when I made that remark, but it has since been overtaken by events.

I'm not sure that sample is definitive. From what I've observed, but not having made any records, Orange network area remains as being those where it had an LLU presence - which de facto included some but maybe not all M2 and M3.

The check that needs to be made is on an M2 and an M3 (and M1 too I think) exchange where Orange did not have an LLU presence. Perhaps that is what you have done, but you haven't indicated so.

No, I haven't but I would have liked to. Trouble is there is no public record of where Orange was LLU'ed and I can't search TBB for "I was on Orange LLU" . In the absence of this there is no evidence that Orange/EE are still adhering to their old LLU network as their current Network Area.

BTW WBC-enablement is also irrelevant.

As is other LLU presence. Yes, as it turns out, but there is no harm in adding further independent variables to my study in order to show that they have no correllation and it adds to the # of samples.

In reply to a post by E7er:

To me this indicates the �Orange home broadband network area� is Market 3 exchange areas, which according to Orange covers 85% of all UK homes.

According to the OFCOM doc you yourself quote in other thread:

In reference to stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/wholesale-broadband-markets...:

Market 2: exchanges where two or three POs are present or forecast (13.8% of premises); and
Market 3: exchanges where four or more POs are present or forecast (71.3% of premises).

Simple addition shows Markets 2 + 3 = 85.1% of homes . Taken with Orange's statement confirms my finding that Orange Network Area = Markets 2 + 3 .

LOL.

That looks like Q.E.D.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The timing of Orange's LLU presence is crucial. If it began later than the OfCom December list, it could still be an Orange network area, quite independently of Market Classification.

I presume you mean Orange's LLU absence or non-presence?

It was announced in April 2010, but wasn't effected for me, and others, about April 2011. However OFCOM's Aug. 2010 consultation doc indicates that it was taken into account in the Dec. list.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The check that needs to be made is on an M2 and an M3 exchange where Orange did not have an LLU presence.

Eureka! I'm pretty sure I've now sussed it.

I have unearthed SamKnows' old List of Orange's LLU exchanges (1867 of them). It is no longer linked to the site but it looks pretty definitive; it's bigger than their current list of O2/Be.

My results are rather surprising; Orange/EE Broadband Network Area are based on a hybrid of Orange's old LLU presence and Market Classifications.

Again have carried out a study of the standard prices Orange/EE charge for their lowest, Unlimited ADSL + Off-Peak Calls, package to new non-mobile customers over 12 random exchanges spanning 3 Markets x Orange's LLU presence (2 of each to be more sure). My findings were:

• Market 1: £20 pm at Non-LLU Exchanges THIN, SSSWD
• Market 1: £10 pm at all 5 LLU Exchanges incl. THTH, SSWCE
• Market 2: £10 pm at Non-LLU Exchanges WNABC, NSBDS & LLU Exchanges WMASH, WWDART
• Market 3: £20 pm at all 12 Non-LLU Exchanges incl. EMTOWCE, THLG
• Market 3: £10 pm at LLU Exchanges SLIN, SSKEY

Note: EE Mobile customers would pay £5 pm less.

Therefore I conclude that EE's Service Availability Area (BB Network Area) now consists of:
all exchanges where Orange had LLU (1867) + those Market 2 exchanges where Orange didn't have LLU (326),

Looks like quite a good analysis .

It has been brought to my attention that EE has changed its Network Area since I carried out this survey.

So I have repeated my study of the standard prices Orange/EE charge for their lowest, Unlimited ADSL + Weekend Calls, package to new non-mobile customers over 12 random exchanges spanning 3 Markets x Orange's LLU presence (2 of each to be more sure). My findings were:

• Market 1: £31 pm at Non-LLU Exchanges THIN, SSSWD
• Market 1: £16 pm at all 5 LLU Exchanges incl. THTH, SSWCE
• Market 2: £31 pm at Non-LLU Exchanges WNABC, NSBDS
• Market 2: £16 pm at LLU Exchanges WMASH, WWDART
• Market 3: £31 pm at all 12 Non-LLU Exchanges incl. EMTOWCE, THLG
• Market 3: £16 pm at LLU Exchanges SLIN, SSKEY

Note: EE Mobile customers would pay £10 pm less.

So they no longer count all Market 2 exchanges in their Network Area.

Now EE's Service Availability Area (BB Network Area) just consists of:
All exchanges where Orange had LLU (1867)
as we originally thought.

I don't know when this change was made but it can't be too far back as I had checked some Market 2 non-LLU exchanges in the last few months.

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

Post deleted by XRaySpeX