BT adsl checker database shouldn't be used by isp's

ADSL CHECKER SAMPLE

That is what it's results are for my line, if they where anywhere near accurate i would not have bothered getting a pc and broadband, these results should not be used for estimates either as they are not reliable enough for that even

Is there anyway to get this updated with the correct info? this guesstimate is used by isp's some of which will hide behind as they will try and claim that the line is operating within specification when it may not be ,
My true attenuation when connected to an adsl2+ service is 28 @ the dslam
my line length is quite short certainly less than 2km probably around 1.5km or less
the sync speeds i have had syncs in excess of 19mbits downstream @4db
and 1.2mbits@7db (capped ) with my previous isp, with my current isp i see speeds are a little lower typically around only 18mbit @3db both use fastpath & are llu SMPF and no dlm

But recently my sync dropped several times within a short space of time and resulted in the sync being lower on both up and downstream ,and suddenly there where lots of errors too,

The isp at the time basically hid behind the dumb database and refused to call in openreach , the problem has oddly now improved somewhat but is not quite back to what is was

The database is not there for providers to hide behind, so your ISP is using it wrong.

It is there to give a signup estimate, so people can get an idea whether they are likey to get or 15 Meg

The normal range of speeds for your attenuation is 14 to 17 Meg, so what is actually wrong with the database?

I've started to notice that if I 'check' my line via BT's Availability Checker that shortly afterwards I then get a phone call from 'BT Broadband' promising me all sorts of things.

If I've got time and am in the mood I must admit I do rather tease them about what a long line on a 20CN exchange can expect!

BT should really add a note (sorry if I've missed it) like some other providers to say if you put your phone number in expect a sales call...

If that is happening when you use the Wholesale checker, that is bad.

Wholesale do not deal with end users directly.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

If that is happening when you use the Wholesale checker, that is bad.

Wholesale do not deal with end users directly.

Matt

On several availability checkers of various isp's it' giving a figure of 8mbit what a joke !!! when i tried to enter my number in to your checker i got this message

We are currently not able to deliver any results on the number entered. This could be because it is a new number, not an active BT Wholesale service or one that is incompatible with broadband.

my line is with BTW and currently has bb (SMPF) LLU active on it also,So maybe a glitch somewhere ?

My current isp are hiding behind it in saying because the recent drop in sync rate and multiple LOS & LOF events coupled with tons of errors hasn't dropped below this frankly bs estimate by btw there's not a fault,lol who do they think they are trying to blag ? i won't name & shame them just yet

The checker gives no indictation on loss of signal type faults, so speaks more about your actual provider than the checker itself

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The checker gives no indictation on loss of signal type faults, so speaks more about your actual provider than the checker itself

yes i know , but they will use it to try and say that it is within normal ranges ,if it was more accurate than it is and gave say 14-17mbit then it would stop them being able to use it for more than a guesstimate at time of sign up

In reply to a post by uno:

If that is happening when you use the Wholesale checker, that is bad.

Never happened to me, I assume b4dger isn't using the wholesale one but the bt internet one.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

ADSL CHECKER SAMPLE

That is what it's results are for my line, if they where anywhere near accurate i would not have bothered getting a pc and broadband, these results should not be used for estimates either as they are not reliable enough for that even

Is there anyway to get this updated with the correct info? this guesstimate is used by isp's some of which will hide behind as they will try and claim that the line is operating within specification when it may not be ,
My true attenuation when connected to an adsl2+ service is 28 @ the dslam
my line length is quite short certainly less than 2km probably around 1.5km or less
the sync speeds i have had syncs in excess of 19mbits downstream @4db
and 1.2mbits@7db (capped ) with my previous isp, with my current isp i see speeds are a little lower typically around only 18mbit @3db both use fastpath & are llu SMPF and no dlm

But recently my sync dropped several times within a short space of time and resulted in the sync being lower on both up and downstream ,and suddenly there where lots of errors too,

The isp at the time basically hid behind the dumb database and refused to call in openreach, the problem has oddly now improved somewhat but is not quite back to what is was

I think you have gpot hold of the wrong end of a few sticks there, along with some right ones.

There is a very good reason for the standard sync-time noise margin being 6dB. That being that many lines cannot reliably support settings much lower, partly because of normal noise variation 24/7 of over 3dB and partly because of cheap domestic grade routers sometimes losig connection when still well above 0dB actual margin. For example my Speedtouch 585v6 and O2 box (also 585v6) would both drop if the margin fell below 3.5dB. Three Netgear 834 variants I then used would hold down to 0dB.

Importantly, the BT estimates are based on the assumption of a 6dB connection, plus the existence of ring wires and non-optimised environments such as dodgy extension wiring and electrically noisy home environments. Which in my opinion will include the vast majority of installations.

Are you aware that the standard setting on Sky LLU is 7dB and on TalkTalk 9dB? I have reason to believe that Tiscali used to be 12dB, but I'm not sure that is correct.

Maybe you shouldn't be tweaking. The result of a disconnection due to noise almost inevitably causes a lower reconnection speed. That's the way it works. Your line seems to have intermittent noise bursts. That's life.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 11-Mar-12 10:08:51)

No it was the 'Wholesale' checker.

Might has just been coincidence, but 3 or 4 times now I've put my line details in and in the next couple of weeks received a cold call from BT trying to get me to move to them.

What URL is that?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Are you aware that the standard setting on Sky LLU is 7dB and on TalkTalk 9dB? I have reason to believe that Tiscali used to be 12dB, but I'm not sure that is correct.

Talk Talk is 12db
Tiscali is 6db
C&W is 9db

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

Talk Talk is 12db
Tiscali is 6db
C&W is 9db

Except my good friend across the road, somehow on Day 1 of Tiscali MPF a few years ago, moving from Virgin dialup, had a 12dB sync-time margin. He had restarted the router a few times though, before he called me over, as he couldn't get the wireless to work.

That stayed until a few months after the TT takeover when he was told his package was being phased out and that he would be moved to the nearest TT equivalent. He discussed it with them and got a rather good deal.

The day he was switched, possibly from Tiscali to TT kit, his margin dropped to 9dB.

1st my line has run on a lower than default margin for over 12mths with my current isp and at least another year before that without frequent disconnects except when my line had faults ,
And due to increased error rates lower than normal sync for snr,regardless of level of snr, or if fastpath or interleave the results are the same, and disconnects still occur ,
I know there is a fault A, with the line it's self, B with the exchange kit it's self, and a dmt graph shows some tones are starting to fail if i compare with several other dmt graphs from some 6-9mths ago

Also if i enter my number in the checker here
Dumy control panel

It gives my correct post code the line length looks about right , the upload speed is a little lower than it actually is (on default settings) But interestingly enough if i enter some other numbers , of neighboring businesses one which is further away from the PCP cab the results are a higher speed and shorter line length ,so the information that ISP's wholesalers or who ever else requires such info are being supplied incorrect info about my line,
And although it is supposed to only be there for the purpose of giving an estimate of speeds, it does get used as a tool by isp's who simply don't want to call out bt ,or are clueless in dealing with line faults,
On another note from the recorded menu within the BT line test 17070 it askes if the engineer wishes to perform the new test CIDT so would i right in thinking that that option will be available at my exchange for isp's to use too?

Are you the OP tommy?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Are you the OP tommy?

Nope, but i know where they are comming from, regarding the checker and incorrect info ect and i suspect there will be thousands of others too, but they may not be aware of it , or feel that it won't ever affect them adversely now or in the future
And in particular the bit about their isp using the data from the checker or other inacurate sources to make a desision if their was a problem or not , it would be interesting to know which isp he/she is with though , i would have named them, although i wouldn't need to

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The day he was switched, possibly from Tiscali to TT kit, his margin dropped to 9dB.

Quite likely that that port had not been reset from the previous usage. The documented default on TT is 12db.

Matt

I normally stick 'bt availability checker' into Google which currently takes you to http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

I get loads of BT letters (and large posters!?!) asking me to switch through the post as well so perhaps I'm just being targeted!

I've done another 'check' today so if I should have another phone call in the next few weeks I'll post back. My last chat was a few months ago so it really will be either a coincidence or more if I get a call

When they call I have asked BT to remove me from all their 'are you interested' lists so things may have changed for me...

I'm been getting several mailshots per month from VM for a while now, and the rate has increased recently.

This estate has high Sky usage and a fair number of VM connections as well. It is also FTTC-enabled.

I think VM are extremely scared of the coming effect of Sky FTTC.

I get the occasional phone call from BT. They don't even know that Infinity isn't the only service using Openreach FTTC. I don't think they even know what Openreach is.

In reply to a post by b4dger:

When they call I have asked BT to remove me from all their 'are you interested' lists so things may have changed for me...

I get called because they see I don't make any calls on my line, so they call me trying to get me to switch back. When I patitently explain I have not switched my calls away but only have the BT line rental for the broadband, they get confused and say "you don't have BT broadband". The BT retail people need more training - if I get one more call I'll have to switch my line rental to a WLR3 seller just to stop them phoning me

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I get called because they see I don't make any calls on my line, so they call me trying to get me to switch back. When I patitently explain I have not switched my calls away but only have the BT line rental for the broadband, they get confused and say "you don't have BT broadband". The BT retail people need more training - if I get one more call I'll have to switch my line rental to a WLR3 seller just to stop them phoning me

Love it!