Beware of Rightmove

Guys if looking for a property and you are using the rightmove website please do not use their speed checker. It is completly in accurate and will give false readings.

I wish I had their optimism as I would be on 76Mbps if that was the case, alas my entire postcode is 1.5 - 3Mbps with no chance of fibre.

Just as an FY1, imagine buying a house and going by these completly false claims, you get your internet all up and running and its prehistoric speeds

Happened to me!

Have mentioned this before.

Rightmove shows 76 Mbps (with two decimal place accuracy for some reason) if the postcode can get FTTC.

We do have data they could come and enquire about i.e. what we use for the FTTC layer on http://maps.thinkbroadband.com/#!lat=50.264889531397...

Plus as there are active speed tests on our map you can get a double security check, or even better get the estate agent to get an owner to do a speed test.

Surely there should be some form of "policing" for these extrtemly inaccurate estimates. There isnt even anything in the disclaimer.

I was quite shocked as almost every checker I tried states my speeds are 1.5 - 3, which says to me Rightmove have "deliberately" made it so the results are based on top speeds within an extremly wide area.

I'm pretty sure if BB speeds are cited on Homereports they will be soon, so that makes me wonder what kind of accuracy there will be for that.

Just totaly bamboozled that such a large site would be "tampering" the results in this way.

I will share their response as I contacted them.

And aye Andrew your quite right people should be checking more thoroughly but alas there are some who aren't all that savvy with these things and will trust a big site like rightmove. This may even knock on to estate agents etc and it would burst yer heid!

Edit: Hate to point this out but your map is also wrong lol, the green dot is EXACTLY where my house is and it definately should be a red dot!

Edited by deleted (Mon 01-Sep-14 15:39:22)

Postcode please? email it if you want to remain anonymous

Im not shy ...lol

KA1 3TQ

The wee green dot is exactly where my house is, and chances are both speedtests were done by me. My whole postcode is EO as are a few postcodes in that area.

It's the wee green dot at Esk Road

Much as I like the colour wish i had the speed associated

First note the wording "Note that this does not show active cabinets but estimated speeds if FTTC were to be offered from every street cabinet." on the maps. It includes estimates for all green street cabinets.

Can do you a deal on a map that is just live cabinets too

Address 31 ESK ROAD, KILMARNOCK, KA1 3TQ on Exchange KILMARNOCK is served by Cabinet 34 actually has FTTC available at 37 to 74 Mbps (our estimate is 35 Mbps for postcode).

Reason you are getting a bad result is because the postcode is split between the cabinet connected properties and those on Exchange Only (EO) lines. It is the joy of postcode only checks, which mean they need to caveated.

No evidence of upgrade plans for the EO lines on that exchange yet. EO means lines go direct to the exchange and NOT via a green cabinet.

Edit to add have hand counted EO versus cab properties at the postcode and changed back end to show this as a red postcode in the future since it is mostly exchange only.

Edited by MrSaffron (Mon 01-Sep-14 16:00:41)

I have the opposite problem, it says 1.25Mbps, even for properties close to an FTTC cab that has been enabled for over three years, when the reality is 76Mbps.

31 is nowhere near the green dot so that is really misleading. 31 is at the end of the street past the junction at Dee Avenue, and there are 4 houses there (2 on each side of the road) that are connected to the cabinet. So sorry to pluck hairs but the green dot is inacuratly placed. From Dee Avenue up everything is EO. Try addy 1 - say 28 (without looking at door nuumbers its hard to tell). So 4 houses out of 31 is 13%. So 87% are in the "black spot" and the exact centre is where the green dot is. There are also a cluster of EO lines in the culde sac behing where the green dot on esk road is. So basicly the green dot is in the centre of a bradband not spot.

Before I moved to the area I enquired with Openreach about Fibre availability and my isp both stating it will be available soon.

Does anyone have any exeriance in Openreach answering FOI requests ?

In reply to a post by kasg:

I have the opposite problem, it says 1.25Mbps, even for properties close to an FTTC cab that has been enabled for over three years, when the reality is 76Mbps.

At least you guys can rectify that when advertising the property. Someone I work with has purchased a property real close to me, I dont think the garbage broadband speed despite what "checkers" say has sunk in yet lol

FOI applies to public bodies. Openreach isn't one.

Advertising Standards Agency?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

FOI applies to public bodies. Openreach isn't one.

Thats what I thought, I dont think there is any way to get Openreach to disclose EO info and percentages etc. Even if possible to hit them with an FOI they would get around it by saying it will cost too much to complie the data.

And I digress..........

Sorry but we can only plot the lat and lng that Ordnance Survey supply for postcodes we cannot go around walking every postcode and determining what looks like the local centre point.

The address posted is PART of KA1 3TQ and as I pointed out, I've manually reviewed the postcode and marked it now as an EO one. The automated processes are not infallible and with 1.7 million postcodes covering 27 million plus properties it is not easy to get the balance right all the time.

The postcodes split over EO and a cabinet are always the difficult ones, if the broadband speed is part of a property pack and supplied by the solicitor they should do a check down to the exact address and/or telephone number.

Postcode level checks can only ever be approximate because of the size of a postcode which varies, if someone knows of a database with the lat/lng of all 27 million UK properties I'd like to know.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sorry but we can only plot the lat and lng that Ordnance Survey supply for postcodes we cannot go around walking every postcode and determining what looks like the local centre point.

The address posted is PART of KA1 3TQ and as I pointed out, I've manually reviewed the postcode and marked it now as an EO one. The automated processes are not infallible and with 1.7 million postcodes covering 27 million plus properties it is not easy to get the balance right all the time.

The postcodes split over EO and a cabinet are always the difficult ones, if the broadband speed is part of a property pack and supplied by the solicitor they should do a check down to the exact address and/or telephone number.

Postcode level checks can only ever be approximate because of the size of a postcode which varies, if someone knows of a database with the lat/lng of all 27 million UK properties I'd like to know.

It is amazing how suck a trivial thing as a small percentage changes the figure or real outlook of statistics. This is why I'm always banging on about how openreach will fudge the figures for the superfast roll out. The fact they cant even give the real % per area that are EO and exactly where they are is appauling as they have the info they just dont know how they wish to present it (as in hold it back and do some jiggery pokery to make it look how they want it too).

So tonight I shall sleep with the curtains open in the hope to see the mysterious green glowing light

But in all seriousness its one thing for the map here to be slightly inacurate, its a whole other ball game for a site selling houses to be so wrong.

So will there be any gaurentees that openreach have any accurate info ..........I doubt it

I have no idea how much rightmove paid for access to the data, but money is a big factor in the accuracy plus how long people are willing to wait for the actual data even if it is an estimate.

I don't agree with their UI that gives the impression an actual test is taking place.

At the end of the day the only accurate estimate will be to buy 27 million VDSL modems and hang them off of every phone line. Cost non-trivial.

In reply to a post by RossMcG:

I will share their response as I contacted them.

Would love to see their comments as they have ignored "complaints" before.

I will share the comments.

Wow some of my comments disappear on here , strange ......

OK I got a reply and also a good giggle. First person forwarded the email to some project lead to reply to "this dude" (the dude being me). Here is the response....

I�m the project lead for the team that introduced the broadband feature on Rightmove. I�m sorry to hear that the data we have is inaccurate for your postcode.

I�ll get in contact our data provider for some feedback and get back in touch when I hear back.

Epic!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

if someone knows of a database with the lat/lng of all 27 million UK properties I'd like to know.

OS have this database. It used to be called AddressBase but that was years ago so they have probably renamed it. But, it isn't cheap. Details on OS website

There is also the LLPG and NLPG that are used by government (which are feeds for AddressBase).

I missed out the word free

Maybe charge you all a pound a time for access to our maps will pay for it.

Better hope a lot of people access it then

Unfortunately this level of data is based on stuff that costs people money to create. I don't think there is an equivalent to OpenStreetMap for address data - perhaps a kickstarter project?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Better hope a lot of people access it then

Unfortunately this level of data is based on stuff that costs people money to create. I don't think there is an equivalent to OpenStreetMap for address data - perhaps a kickstarter project?

I think it is expected that the map here wont be totaly accurate, for example in my case where it showed fibre speeds yet also showed 3 x test results of 2 -3Mb.

However something like Rightmove should be at least linked into the Openreach checker, which shows my postcode area as 90+ % probability of EO and speeds between 1.5 - 2Mb. At least your map goes into further detail and in a way rectifies any glitches.

By the rule of thumb used by places like rightmove people in the Cirencester area will be obtaining speeds of > 10GB (due to the fact GCHQ is on their doorstep)

Yes, be verey wary of Postcodes.

One extreme example I am aware of is in a street of identical blocks of flats.

There is a change of Postcode in the middle of the run of blocks.

Generally, all of the flats within any one block have the same post code, and consist of two ground floor flats with an entry between them, to the upper three storeys, with three flats per storey. Taht is 11 flats per block.

But in the one block to the left/west of the Postcode change, the ground-floor falt to the right, has the same postcode as the blocks to the right.

All are domestic etc, so no obvious reason for the difference, apart from error away back when the postcodes were issued.

Rightmove should be at least linked into the Openreach checker, which shows my postcode area as 90+ % probability of EO and speeds between 1.5 - 2Mb.

My postcode and the adjacent one are 100% EO (68 and 6 properties respectively) yet Rightmove say:
"Superfast enabled for speeds up to 76Mbps

There is superfast available in this area and it is very likely to be provided to this property but you'll need to check with the providers below to be sure."

It would appear that at best Rightmove isn't using the full post code but perhaps exchange level only.

Have done a check on a local cabinet I know is not live and yes shows the FTTC speed.

Am sure I could do them a deal for better information, with options for feedback to take on board the errors that will always be there in a large data set.

Am sure I could do them a deal for better information

Go for it! If they bite then you'll have some useful extra income. Perhaps FTPoD even! <g>

Having dug a bit deeper my postcode consists of 34 properties, only one of which is connected to a Fibre cabinet, the remaining are exchange only.

According to the Openreach checker (which they took offline now!) there is a 93% probability that my postcode is exchange only.

So lets do the maths.............

as there is 1 property out of 34 which is connected to a cabinet that means:

1 / 34 * 100 = 3 so 3% are connected to the cabinet
which then leaves 97% which are EO lines.

yet openreach report 93%

not a huge difference but if that was the level of innacuracy then they are not giving correct figures in relation to the real % of EO lines out there. Add them all up and it would be a massively higher number.

So when they reach their target % coverage by all means you could easily say at least a few% is completly falsified.

That is maths at primary school level, which again shows the cloack and dagger tactics used.

Talk about polishing a turd!

Did you take into account possibility of a property having more than one line? Which can change the statistics too.

You need to analyse more postcodes to be sure they are trying to cook the books.

Scotland does have some small exchanges that are totally Exchange Only but signs of some work in different areas is appearing, but with any large project the question is who is dealt with first.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Did you take into account possibility of a property having more than one line? Which can change the statistics too.

You need to analyse more postcodes to be sure they are trying to cook the books.

Scotland does have some small exchanges that are totally Exchange Only but signs of some work in different areas is appearing, but with any large project the question is who is dealt with first.

Its difficult to quote exact figures due to openreach removing their checker, however I did go through a list of all EO lines in my area, there are 146 in total non inclusive of the farms which will be effected. From memory the story was similar for each section. Now considering the speeds are 1.5Mb - 2Mb I think chances are no one has a second line, there is someone who either has satelite or direct contact with a mothership (perhaps the wee green dot) as they have a huge dish.

A more plausable possibility is that their are un-used lines giving differing results. I cannot envisage anyone having 2 lines with the possibility of max 4Mb (possibly higher).

My speed is 3.3MBs, thats after about 15 engineer visits (those visits enforced my opinion on openreach). max speed I have had is 4.2MBs which lasted 6 months till their was a line fault (which took 4 engineers to find!).

I would love to get my hands on the exact figures.

I dont think they are cooking the books but any analyst will tell you that their are ways to slide figures in favour of your aim. They certainly arent using up to date information, and probably deliberately so.

Funny thing is there are 2 properties in the middle of the cluster that can get Fibre lol, and there are properties within 20 meters of a cabinet that cant get it. They must be raging.

Also regarding our statistics I know for a fact their is one property that doesnt have a telephone line.

On a side note why have they removed their checker?

Removed which checker precisely?

The exchange is 17000+ premises so you can see the priority if the Scottish target is 85% on fibre based, i.e. 146 can be ignored for a long time.

The second lines can just be for voice, fax or alarm or anything, they don't just look at people who have broadband.

The planning phases for the projects should partially account for oddities in their data and this can lead to corrections appearing when you look at specific areas over time.

At the end of the day current project means 1 in 7 homes in Scotland will still have ADSL/ADSL2+ at best. There is the 2Mbps USC but your speeds appear above that.

Most accurate checker I found is: http://community.fttc-check.alc.im/30-pcp-data-removed

And yup I am above the 2Mb threshhold but that took countless hours on the phone to the ISP support, at least 15 engineer visits and amazingly the engineer that did get the speed up and reliable (as before it was dreadful) was on his first day working as a broadband engineer. All other engineers were flippant and just said tough luck your EO and the fact the line is so long they didnt want to know.

You mention the project (I assume its the BDUK) however Digital Scotland say by 2017 98% of homes in my area will have access to superfast broadband as the local authority have chucked in a ton of cash. That superseeds the 1 in 7 (85%).

I know how it will play out, my little cluster of 146 homes will be that percentile who wont get because they dont need to give, I just want someone to come clean about it. At least openreach said off the bat that they will not be doing anything for those lines as it is not commercialy viable. I guess it is all politics though

However there are still those with <2mb (some are on the same pole as I am) so surely that means it is a not spot.

Just really want someone to tell the truth, line in the sand and move on (or move house if I could ever sell, already homes in the black spot arent selling and dropping prices. Mysteriously those that do get fibre are selling, so it has an effect.

The guy who started this petition had the right idea! : http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/45129

Okay that was NOTHING to do with Openreach, someone published data that was supplied to an ISP with a confidentiality notice most likely.

Having seen some of that data previously, it is not to be taken as gospel either.

The problem is that while I can say it does not look likely anything will happen for you. Who knows how the later phases of the project will play out, and with more money coming to go to a higher target the Scottish Government is going to have to address almost all the larger clusters of EO if its going to hit that 2017 objective.

Even the referendum might have an unknown effect.

It was far too informative to be owned by openreach, although not 100% it was the best I have certainly seen.

I am not sure if 146 properties (obviously a bit more if including neighbouring farms & countryside properties) would constitute as a large cluster.