New rules?

These new rules are fine, but what do you do when they aren't followed?

"To keep track of switches, Ofcom's code stipulates that providers and service resellers have to obtain a three-digit reseller ID (RID) from Ofcom, which can then be used to monitor and protect the movement of services.

Companies also have to take measures to ensure consumers do not lose any service at any point during the switch."

Ofcom seem "toothless" and aren't contactable anyway.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/what-is-ofcom/contact-us/


It makes you wonder when they state "Ofcom cannot investigate individual cases"

I guess it is because they couldn't handle the volume of individual complaints that would head their way if that became part of their remit

ISPs know that very little (if anything) is ever done, so they drag their heels and the customer suffers as a result.

I understood all ISPs have to sign up to a 3rd party service that deals with escalated individual complaints. Ofcom are there to monitor and regulate not as an escalation path as they have put rules in place for where people should escalate issues to.

That doesn't stop people feeding back to Ofcom on where the process is failing so that Ofcom can then look to improve it - but that doesn't mean Ofcom have any involvement in the individual case.

The trouble is the process takes months and in that time the customer suffers and because of all these silly rules you can't just get an alternative provider for a few days/weeks/months.

Surely having rules, silly or otherwise, is far better than having none whatsoever. The rule causing problems is the time that can pass before a user can make a formal complaint to an ISP's nominated Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme.

Providers are expected to have their own internal complaints process and the adjudicators should only be used when the internal processes have failed.

I am not sure: sometimes rules just hinder rather than help.

It would appear that like many road plans someone at Ofcom is paid a fortune to analise problems and they just seem to bring in rules that make things worse!

That's a superbly applicable typo you have, instead of analyse.

Bob, surely you're not suggesting that Ofcom make an ass of the process?

I suspect there are considerably more users that benefit from there being rules than suffer. Are you suggesting there should be no rules with the all mayhem that would then follow? Don't confuse rules with bureaucracy.

I thought it might be a bit subtle for most: well done.

A lot of things work without rules, but you might be right in this case.

Of course if all companies applied common sense ...... but now I am drifting into fairy land.

I apologyse for not realising it was deliberate .

No appolagy appology explanation required.

LOL.

In reply to a post by hk11:

These new rules are fine, but what do you do when they aren't followed?

Yep! Like when you don't follow the rules, you cocked it up don't blame the ISP's. You should not have contacted EE the ISP you are moving from your gaining ISP will do that, do not contact the ISP you are moving from.

Gaining provider led process.
Under a 'gaining provider led process', your new provider will arrange the transfer for you.

You only need to contact the provider you wish to switch to, who will notify your old provider of the intended transfer - you do not need to cancel your contract with your old provider.

Ofcom New Rules
http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/internet/broadband-swi...

In reply to a post by E7er:

don't blame the ISP's.

The ISP's what?

actions

It is unclear what actions my ISP has taken "to ensure consumers do not lose any service at any point during the switch." Whatever those actions are, they have obviously failed.

The post seems to imply that you contacting your ISP gave them the opportunity to cease your line.

I understand what it implies, but the OP doesn't make it clear where the rules state that the customer must not contact the supplier. In fact I was obliged to tell them they were in breach of contract.

I think these are the rules which apply

In reference to www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/migration.html:

Gaining Provider Led (GPL)

The provider you are moving to should handle the notification of your old provider on your behalf. If your telephone line is with a different provider to the broadband line and you are moving both to the same provider, make sure the new provider is aware they need to notify both providers.

The old provider once notified will send you a letter detailing any outstanding costs e.g. 30 day notice period or any price to pay off remaining months on your contract and what services are being moved. There should be a ten day period for you to notify the provider that the move is something you do not want to go ahead with, or that you never authorised the move. The system will presume you are happy to move if you do nothing.

The process is identical if you just have a telephone line, but ensure the new provider is aware if you want to keep your old number, so they can port it. The new provider should warn you if they are not likely to be able to port a number.

IMPORTANT The old provider is NOT allowed to make you a deal to stay with them or contact you to tempt you to stay. If you are trying to use the threat of leaving to get a better broadband/phone price you need to pro-actively chase the provider yourself before initiating the migration now.

The ten day notification period is designed to avoid slamming, providers will usually post a physical letter, but if they have explicit permission to do so they can email a notification. This question is often asked when originally signing up i.e. can they send the account notifications via email.

If your old broadband and phone are with two separate providers you should get two notification letters.

Any queries about the migration should be directed to the new provider.

I can't see anything there which says you should contact your existing supplier during the migration, except to cancel the migration.

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Dec-15 00:47:42)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I can't see anything there which says you should contact your existing supplier during the migration, except to cancel the migration.

I agree, but equally there is nothing saying you must not contact them.

Why did you contact them?

My broadband wasn't working.

Did your new provider inform you which route will be used for your migration?

There are two ways that the switch should occur 'gaining provider led' and 'cease and provide', the new provider should advise which route will be used for your migration.

I'd have to check Plusnet's letter but http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1463... implies .....

So it stopped working due to a fault at the exchange and your broadband has left EE and is now with Plusnet, but Plusnet can't get it working until your phone line also moves over to Plusnet. No-one to blame then, just a fault.

That isn't correct. Plusnet do not need the line.

The fault has been fixed. Plusnet are just being "jobsworth", as far as I can see.

The bb was taken over too early: again Plusnet shouldn't have asked BTO to transfer the service until 7th.

I think you misunderstand the system.

What date did the original email to you from Plusnet say? The early migration actions by OR were after you complained wherever that your broadband had stopped working, so didn't cause the failure. OR appear to have simply done the required while involved so as to avoid having to do anything later. The wrong thing to do, but is what you were told was in their report.

It was EE closing your broadband account did that.

Is/was the line with EE? I know it has to be for new customers, but may not have been when you joined.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I think you misunderstand the system.

Quite possibly. My understanding is that OR work for the ISP and not the customer. As such I fail to see why EE would instruct OR to do the transfer, I though Plusnet would do that? My understanding is that OR did the transfer and repair at the same time, but it is unclear what the actual fault is/was.

What email? I don't think I got any email from Plusnet concerning OR's findings.

It is quite possible that EE caused the problem, but how am I to know? EE blamed Plusnet and Plusnet apologised, so .....

Phone line is/was with EE, but as far as I am aware there hasn't been a fault with the phone, just the broadband.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

OR appear to have simply done the required while involved so as to avoid having to do anything later. The wrong thing to do, but is what you were told was in their report.

I think the exchange work is a red herring. No exchange work would enable a connection to Plusnet but not to EE. As ever, Openreach is easy to blame because they can't answer back.

I agree, I still think the cease of BB connection is due to EE contacting Btw to have it cancelled.

It's all guess work until Plusnet supply the facts.

In reply to a post by hk11:

It's all guess work until Plusnet supply the facts.

It is EE that need to supply the facts. Plusnet aren't your supplier and have no responsibility for you connections until they take over on 7(?) December.

So you think EE gave OR the instructions to change my provider then?

In http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1462... Plusnet say "Essentially from what I've seen/been told by our suppliers, there was a fault with the connection (EE's connection) however when the engineer went out and 'fixed' it they put things in place for our connection. But our connection won't work until the order completes, which can't happen until the phone order completes"

I read this as Plusnet's suppliers not EE's, but maybe I have it wrong?

I really don't care who supplies the facts, but it would be nice to establish exactly what happened.

Edited by hk11 (Fri 04-Dec-15 17:27:49)

In reply to a post by hk11:

So you think EE gave OR the instructions to change my provider then?

I really don't care who supplies the facts, but it would be nice to establish exactly what happened.

You do appear to have a problem accepting and understanding how transfers now occur. PN would have submitted a request to BTW for your line to be transferred to them on 7 Dec. What might have happened to your line prior to that date is down to EE (who it appears you may have told you were leaving and as a result may have cancelled their service) and BTW. As EE is your contracted supplier it is to EE and EE alone that you should be addressing your enquiries.

In reply to a post by MCM:

You do appear to have a problem accepting and understanding how transfers now occur. PN would have submitted a request to BTW for your line to be transferred to them on 7 Dec. What might have happened to your line prior to that date is down to EE (who it appears you may have told you were leaving and as a result may have cancelled their service) and BTW. As EE is your contracted supplier it is to EE and EE alone that you should be addressing your enquiries.

It's not really helped by this post from Plusnet: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?topic=1462...

It's hard to decipher what really happened, since that explanation sounds pretty odd to me.

Plusnet have already confirmed they have taken over the connection.

In reply to a post by MCM:

You do appear to have a problem accepting and understanding how transfers now occur.

I think you left out the word should, between transfers and now.

It would appear that OR took it upon themselves to do the transfer early, but I might be wrong. Like I say we need to know the facts.

Edited by hk11 (Fri 04-Dec-15 17:35:44)

Providers issuing a cease at the wrong time is a lot more common that BT Wholesale changing the ISP mapping in the software.

BT Wholesale only act based on the providers requests too

My money is on a cease being issued by EE, sometimes saying the wrong word to an agent can have them believing you are wanting to cease rather than migrate away.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

My money is on a cease being issued by EE, sometimes saying the wrong word to an agent can have them believing you are wanting to cease rather than migrate away.

Presumably then the migration on the 7th will fail, since it's down as a migration as opposed to a re-provide?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

My money is on a cease being issued by EE,

That is quite posible and going on my dealings with EE over the last eight months, very likely, but it is all too easy to jump to the wrong conclusion when we don't know the facts.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Presumably then the migration on the 7th will fail, since it's down as a migration as opposed to a re-provide?

Don't say that!

Why do you think I keep telling you to get a rep to check all is well with their order . That means to specifically make sure that there is no cease order on the broadband.

Now that OR appear to have done the transfer there may be.

I done as you instructed, but I think the thread has been locked!

http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1463...

Edited by hk11 (Fri 04-Dec-15 19:53:02)

PM Bob Pullen there, seeing if he can do anything.

I'm sure it is technically possible for them to activate your account. It may upset the billing system but that can be sorted out with credits. The worst I can think of is that you would have to pay the line rental to both for (now) two days and not get it back from EE.

You seem to keep blaming Plusnet, even putting in a complaint, which puzzles me. It all started with a (possible) fault that EE should have sorted out, and EE closing your account when they shouldn't. The latter very probably being all that was wrong, as it caused you not to be able to authenticate at broadband login.

What Plusnet should have done when you contacted them was simply say there was nothing they could do. It appears they tried to help. That's what they did wrong.

Plusnet did not cause the initial failure of your broadband. Trying to help may have prevented EE sorting out the fault and/or closure at their end.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 04-Dec-15 20:20:18)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

PM Bob Pullen there, seeing if he can do anything.

Will do, thanks.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You seem to keep blaming Plusnet, even putting in a complaint, which puzzles me.

Because I read that the fault was due to their instructing OR to swap my bb over to them, they even apologised for my lack of connection and they still haven't answered my question as to exactly what "the fault" is/was.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It all started with a (possible) fault that EE should have sorted out,

Plus told me there was a fault, not EE. In fact EE said there wasn't a fault and my lack of connection was due to Plusnet taking over my line. It is not having access to the FACTS that is winding me up.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

PM Bob Pullen there, seeing if he can do anything.

No reply from Bob, although phone line now with Plusnet, but still no broadband.

Only just seen the PM. If you can follow it up with the username from your Plusnet account then I'll try and take a look at some point tomorrow.

Rgds,

Thanks Bob.

Have replied to your PM, but main problem is sorted now, thanks.

I am getting drop outs and TV is unwatchable due to pauses, but having spent an hour waiting on the phone today, I am told I have to expect this for the first 10 days of a new service.

Eight letters, starting with B and ending with s.

It's time frontline support were trained not to trot out such rubbish.