Openreach being a bottleneck for internet to a new build

So, considering the useful information I got from this site last time I figured I would come back again for my next problem.

I�m moving into a new build property and will be connected via an FTTP connection to the internet, without a home phone. The problem is � despite the developer and supplier contacting Openreach on multiple occasions each and every time I contact Openreach (via their new developments contact form) they claim that there is no order in place � and that I should tell the supplier to place the order via �Bronze matching�. My supplier says that they cannot use �Bronze matching� because this is for phone lines only.

My problem is I move into the property on Friday 18th, and as someone who works from home I�m not really able to wait months for the issue to be resolved, I placed the order for the internet in October so there has been plenty of time for this to be resolved, but Openreach just seem like a nightmare to deal with, all three parties trying to deal with them (myself, the supplier and the developer) are all pulling our hair out over this with Openreach telling us we need another department � but that we are not allowed to speak to that department!!

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I can do to speed the process up? My understanding is that Openreach are legally required to provide some kind of service to all UK properties, so would a court case for lost earnings be likely to get them to pull their finger out their bottom? Also, does anyone have any kind of better contact details for them than that stupid online form that doesn�t even allow you to add comments? I�ve tried responding to the email address that I get my �Bronze matching� email form, but they never reply.

The only thing OpenReach have to provide is a phone line capable of modem speeds (28.8Kbps I think). If that was what you wanted then it sounds like the process already exists but as what you want is FTTP they aren't legally required to provide that and so that is likely why you are hitting the issue. Has anyone else on the estate already got FTTP? My brother moved into a relatively new estate but it was over a year before FTTP became available - all they could get at the start was a phone line with ADSL.

As far as who to contact - it really is between the developer and BT and the developer need to push BT to resolve.

Yes, every other occupied property on the estate has FTTP - the houses were built with the cabling already up to the house - indeed I was told that the 'standard' connection wasn't available here as everything was just via Fibre.

Whilst I get that they don't HAVE to provide Fibre, if that is the only thing the house is setup for I assume that that is what they have to provide? Right now I'd be happy for them to go put all the cable down for a 'traditional' line as long as I'm connected in time - but that seems unlikely to be done by next week!

I never really cared if the connection was FTTP or standard, I just got what I was given so to speak.

Edited by deleted (Fri 11-Dec-15 15:57:12)

OK, that is strange as they have already got a process and presumably the developer has followed that process numerous times. Not sure what to suggest but the developer really needs to be pushing this.

That�s what I thought too, in fairness this is �stage 2� of the building � so the people who currently have the connection have been there a few months already, but I cannot see how the process would have changed much over 3-4 months.

The problem is the developer is chasing Openreach, they stated with a call a week, then two a week and now chase them every day to give them my completion date (at least they tell me they are and I currently have no reason not to believe them) The provider is doing the same (and I know they are there as I�ve been copied in on some of their connections) but Openreach just don�t seem to be tallying any of that up to an actual order in their system.

For a communication provider they seem to have an odd lack of ways to communicate with them!! Surely there must be some way to speak to them and get this sorted, at the moment each internal department of Openreach seems to be blaming the other.

And what is the retail provider you ordered from doing?

As you've said, they are not obliged to provide FTTP. There are people on here that have taken a year to get an FTTP install completed.

You could order a standard line, but if there is only fibre at your address, it's likely you'd face thousands in excess construction charges to get a copper line to you, as they only have to cover the first £1,000.

There is no guarantee such a line would be any good for broadband - you'd probably only get ADSL and may be miles from the exchange.

Perhaps if it's urgent, you should look in to 4G to tide you over? EE are doing two months of 100GB a month for £10.

http://shop.ee.co.uk/campaigns/christmas-sim-from-ee

Edit: You've mentioned "without a home phone" several times. I thought BT insisted on providing a FVA line even in these FTTP only areas? Perhaps that is what is preventing BT progressing - you haven't ordered a phone line. Even if this is technically possible, all their usual orders will have a phone number attached and if yours is "weird" it might cause delays.

I do wonder if your address shows availability of Infinity Option 4 (330/30, £50pm) on the BT Retail site, and if ordering that along with the requisite telephone line, would be quicker.

Edited by nemeth782 (Fri 11-Dec-15 17:34:06)

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

That�s what I thought too, in fairness this is �stage 2� of the building � so the people who currently have the connection have been there a few months already, but I cannot see how the process would have changed much over 3-4 months.

Is the postcode of your property different from that of the older properties? It could be that their systems don't recognise the new postcode/address yet - hence them asking your supplier to input the order in a particular way.

If it is a fibre only area - perhaps asking for a telephone line to be put in first (which I presume BT would then do over fibre) would make it easier to order internet access afterwards

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I can do to speed the process up? My understanding is that Openreach are legally required to provide some kind of service to all UK properties, so would a court case for lost earnings be likely to get them to pull their finger out their bottom?

You should never need to contact Openreach.

Half in jest but you could try another supplier - and see if they are better at dealing with Openreach (you don't say who your current supplier is)

A court case would fail against Openreach - you have no contract with them and are not their customer (your ISP is).

Do you understand the Gold, Silver & Bronze Address matching? If not, do a Google search for "Gold Silver Bronze Address Match BT" - there will be an explanation.


One document is the Dialogue Service Product Guide at LINK When you down load it search for FTTP

That maybe useful to show to the developer and VF

All sound a bit odd as your developer should have an allocated contact in the Openreach New Sites office, they will be charged with ensuring the developer is installing the infrastructure as designed and also being informed of plots that are ready for occupation, etc.

If there's problems the developer should be able to speak to that person directly. Are you sure the developer isn't fobbing you off?

Thanks everyone for the replies to answer each one:

And what is the retail provider you ordered from doing? - They have been in contact with me each day informing what they are trying to do and how Openreach are not helping, they have talked me through what they can do and what they cannot and had me check various elements with the developer to ensure that nothing is missing but the Openreach part, The are contacting Openreach daily via phone and I've been copied in on some of the emails, but never seen a reply.

You could order a standard line, but if there is only fibre at your address, it's likely you'd face thousands in excess construction charges to get a copper line to you, as they only have to cover the first £1,000. - This isn't really an option anyway, and was said more as a joke, I don't see this being faster than just getting Openreach come to the house and install their equipment - the cable is already run up to the wall.

I thought BT insisted on providing a FVA line even in these FTTP only areas?- Apparently not, I had thought this but my supplier insists not and after a post on these very forums the consensus was that this isn't needed any more.

Is the postcode of your property different from that of the older properties? - Nope, its the other side of the street even numbers were built a few months ago, odd numbers now.

Half in jest but you could try another supplier - and see if they are better at dealing with Openreach - I honestly don't see what more Zen could be doing, having dealt with other suppliers in the past I think Zen have been fantastic on chasing this all up and at least trying to get Openreach to do something.

Do you understand the Gold, Silver & Bronze Address matching - According to Openreach, this is classification of how far along the cable provision is, Gold being ready for them and Bronze not being, but according to Zen this is for the phone only, to copy their wording 'Bronze, Silver and Gold system is only in place for phone line ordering and once the phone line is ordered the address key is added to the address.'

A court case would fail against Openreach - would it though? If they are not providing their legal requirement, I've won court cases previously were people have claimed it wasn't to do with them but I've shown how they had a legal requirement to provide it.

If there's problems the developer should be able to speak to that person directly. Are you sure the developer isn't fobbing you off? - The Developer is speaking to Openreach, I've been chasing them daily and they claim that they have been chasing Openreach daily (Unlike Zen with Zen I cannot clarify that, but it would seem easier for them to just call Openreach and sort this rather than have daily calls with me) so I see no reason not to believe them when they say Openreach have all the information they need.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Half in jest but you could try another supplier - and see if they are better at dealing with Openreach - I honestly don't see what more Zen could be doing, having dealt with other suppliers in the past I think Zen have been fantastic on chasing this all up and at least trying to get Openreach to do something.

There was another poster here in October who was having issues with Openreach as well - ironically another longstanding Zen customer

Do you understand the Gold, Silver & Bronze Address matching - According to Openreach, this is classification of how far along the cable provision is, Gold being ready for them and Bronze not being, but according to Zen this is for the phone only, to copy their wording 'Bronze, Silver and Gold system is only in place for phone line ordering and once the phone line is ordered the address key is added to the address.'

I will stand to be corrected but I am pretty sure Gold, Silver & Bronze Address matching is primarily to do with if the address is in the Openreach database not cable provision.

Is your new address showing on the address finder on the Royal Mail website?

A court case would fail against Openreach - would it though? If they are not providing their legal requirement, I've won court cases previously were people have claimed it wasn't to do with them but I've shown how they had a legal requirement to provide it.

I would lay money on it - otherwise you would have seen cases like this in the past for one thing.

I don't see this being faster than just getting Openreach come to the house and install their equipment - the cable is already run up to the wall.

The cable might be there - but it might not be connected to the Openreach network (so it woudn't just be the kit in the house which is missing)

Is your new address showing on the address finder on the Royal Mail website?

Yep, it has been there for two weeks at this point, this was our first suggestion so I chased the Royal Mail and got it added, it now shows up on the Royal mail postcode search and various other websites I've needed to search for it from.

I will stand to be corrected but I am pretty sure Gold, Silver & Bronze Address matching is primarily to do with if the address is in the Openreach database not cable provision.

To quote the Openreach responce directly'
An address has to be �Gold Matched� before an order can be placed by a Service Provider using the standard process. If an address is only at �Silver Matched� stage, this means that it doesn�t have a surveyed network routing on our systems and that infrastructure is still ongoing to provide network capacity to the development site. The Bronze Address Matching Process allows an order to be forced through to Openreach for an address that can't be located. '

I would lay money on it - otherwise you would have seen cases like this in the past for one thing.

People said the same when I took the Ombudsman to court - I still won damages for that too, if your braking the law you are responsible, regardless of if you have a contract with the person or not, that said it's not a path i really want to take, it's really a 'burning your bridges' path and considering that Openreach have a monopoly it's a bridge i really don't want to burn.

I find it very confusing that you mix quotations and your replies/questions without anything to distinguish them. In one post using quotes from several unspecified posters.

There is a quotes system on the forum, with which you can also break up the individual quote with extra close [/] quote and open []quote indicators.

Our language also has such a system. Called "quotation marks".

You will have seen both systems here many times before you started posting.

Sorry I can't help with the problem, because working out what is what in your posts is not something I intend to do.

I apologise you find it difficult, unfortunately I could not find a 'quote' button and not being technically minded I did not know I could use [] to denote a quoted field, but I shall keep that in mind for future reference, thank you for the tip.

so what is development
is there openreach kit in the house already (for FTTP)
is the site being FVA and no copper wiring
Does your provider actually offer FVA

if you can answer any of the above then someone may be able to help you

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I find it very confusing that you mix quotations and your replies/questions without anything to distinguish them. In one post using quotes from several unspecified posters.

There is a quotes system on the forum, with which you can also break up the individual quote with extra close [/] quote and open []quote indicators.

Our language also has such a system. Called "quotation marks".

You will have seen both systems here many times before you started posting.

Sorry I can't help with the problem, because working out what is what in your posts is not something I intend to do.

Off topic and sorry I can help the OP with his issue (although I could follow the post) but did your post have to come across so condescending?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Can I suggest this is not the way to resolve this?

If you had to chase the Royal Mail then it suggests a very new address and while your chasing may have resolved the problem there you may have gone outside the normal chain of how things are done, and thus might be another few weeks before Openreach get the latest set of updates.

New build properties have always had these sorts of problems, just that with people putting more emphasis on the Internet access it tends to show up more.

As for Openreach breaking the law, the USO means a telephone line (be that copper or FTTP) has to be provided, the question over time frames is one open to expensive lawyers to debate, you appear keen to take this route at which point you will often find those who might help will not want to get involved, i.e. people often help by doing stuff not strictly by the book and once it goes 'legal' you have to play by the book.

You have said a cable is installed to the outside of the property, fibre actually terminates in a box on the outside of the property and when the engineer comes to install the live service they run this into the property. The external box can be seen at the end of the blog article at http://tom.goskar.com/2013/09/20/my-fibre-to-the-pre...

It is entirely possible that the FTTP ducting (the tubes the fibre runs through) is in place, but needs Openreach to arrive and do the next phase of the estate, again with out total access to the estate to see the state of play and building phases and local Openreach plans all people can do is guess. The ISP (Zen) should be the ones chasing, and has the developer 100% confirmed they have had sign-up for any ducting they installed to your property?

New build estates are such that they are private land, and the usual rules that mean Openreach can just turn up and do stuff don't apply.

Thanks Mr Saffron, there is some useful information there indeed. I could be that chasing the Royal mail has messed up the order a little - but that was 3 weeks ago and I'd have expected it to be on their system now, it certainly seems to be on everyone elses.

As I've mentioned Zen are chasing, but Openreach claim there is no order in place, despite everyone else informing me differently. As far as I'm aware your summary of what 'might be' is what actually is - I.E. everything is installed and we are waiting for Openreach, I'm not entirely sure what sign-up for any ducting would entail, but the developer has been informing Openreach that they need to come do 'their part' (which is how they have said it to me) for the last 2 and a half weeks.

As said, I'm keen to actually avoid a legal route, but if I cannot get Openreach to work any other way then it's a last chance saloon, not one I want to take but considering the lengths they go to not to speak to anyone it'll at least get me in a room with someone employed by them!!

But you have no contract with openreach, they are not required to provide *you* with anything, only zen.

They are only required to provide anyone a phone line - which you haven't even ordered.

If you want to take legal action against anyone, it would have to be zen. It is for zen to take action against their suppliers if they see fit.

It may well be that you, technically, don't need a phone like to order fttp. But I'd be willing to bet, that given that for many years BT have defined everything by phone numbers, the whole thing would proceed much smoother if you ordered a phone line.

I would also bet that those with successful orders just ordered from BT retail and ordered a phone line too.

Edited by nemeth782 (Sun 13-Dec-15 18:57:56)

Thanks nemeth782,

This was why I originally asked the question if Openreach were required by law to provide an internet access - I had assumed they were from a quick bit of research online but as you say, if they are not then yes - I have no case against them, if they are legally required to provide me with an internet connection and do not however then I would have been within my rights to take legal action, as they failed to provide me with the service they would have been legally required to do. A moot point if this is not a legal requirement however.

Again, on the phone line being required I cannot say - I can only go on the advise I got from the supplier and this site, both said that it wasn't so I assumed that it wasn't, however it could well be that this isn't required but that you cannot actually book Openreach without one (which would explain why they keep saying I need to do a bronze address search, which is apparently for phones only)

The thing is I'm not sure how I can get a phone line, my understanding is that the copper cable isn't in the houses at all (entirely possible that I have misunderstood this) so without that then how would I get a phone line installed? It also seems odd that if there are no phone lines (again i may have misunderstood this) that everyone else on the estate is getting internet just fine.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Yep, it has been there for two weeks at this point, this was our first suggestion so I chased the Royal Mail and got it added, it now shows up on the Royal mail postcode search and various other websites I've needed to search for it from.

If you are moving in next weekend and your address has only just been added to the RM database - and that only following your intervention - then I am afraid imho your developer has let you down - regardless of the status of your Zen order.

It can take **months** for individual firms to update their own databases with new addresses once RM do so - and your developer should have ensured his was done quite some time ago.

You might think other websites have your address now but wait until you move in - in this regard utility companies are actually among the best at updating their records.

To quote the Openreach responce directly'
An address has to be �Gold Matched� before an order can be placed by a Service Provider using the standard process.

which suggests there is a 'non-standard' process which needs to be followed... (i.e. as your address would not have been on their database)

People said the same when I took the Ombudsman to court - I still won damages for that too, if your braking the law you are responsible, regardless of if you have a contract with the person or not, that said it's not a path i really want to take, it's really a 'burning your bridges' path and considering that Openreach have a monopoly it's a bridge i really don't want to burn.

There are a number of exclusions which limit the USO - its not applicable in every case. As I have said before, am pretty confident any legal action would not be successful. You do not have a contract with Openreach and are not their customer.

If people are due to move into new build properties and the utility companies are not ready, its usually because a developer has not done something or failed to allow a sufficient lead time for them to do something

Edited by gt94sss2 (Sun 13-Dec-15 19:10:54)

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

This was why I originally asked the question if Openreach were required by law to provide an internet access - I had assumed they were from a quick bit of research online but as you say, if they are not then yes - I have no case against them, if they are legally required to provide me with an internet connection and do not however then I would have been within my rights to take legal action, as they failed to provide me with the service they would have been legally required to do.

The USO - if applicable - is currently limited to providing a voice line capable of functional internet access (i.e. 28.8K data).

However, as has been said there are limits to the USO and you are not Openreach's customer - they have no contract with you. You would need to try and sue Zen who probably cover this in their T&C.

It also seems odd that if there are no phone lines (again i may have misunderstood this) that everyone else on the estate is getting internet just fine.

How long ago where the other houses built? Its quite possible that the infrastructure for those was put in place and signed off a long time before - and this hasn't happened to your side of the street yet (and if so, it is likely to be your developer at fault ultimately)

Whilst I don't want to get bogged down on an avenue of legal action I probably wouldn't take either way - particularly as it seems I was mistaken that Openreach are required to provide an internet connection, the fact that I had no contract with Openreach would not matter if I have a financial loss caused by their failure to preform their legal duty, the key there is if it was a legal duty or not - if it isn't then yes, without a contract I have no grounds to issue proceedings, however if it is legal then I fully do. A perfect example is my claim against the Ombudsman against whom I had no contract, but when they broke the law which left to identity thefts and me out of pocket I managed to successfully sue them.

Anyway, since it seems that internet access is not a legal obligation then this is all moot, so we'll agree to disagree on that point.

The houses on the other side were completed around 3-4 months ago, from some conversations I've had with other owners I'm not aware of them having any problems when they moved in. I'm not sure what needs to get signed off, I assume this is by Openreach? Which brings me back to my original problem, that Openreach are just blocking everything by refusing to admit that an order is even in place, despite three sets of people telling them that they are. I get that it cannot all happen immediately, but surely after 3 weeks of near daily chasing from three sets of people they should at least know that an order has been placed!

I guess the long and short of it at the moment is that I'm stuck, since nobody has been able to give me a contact email/number/address for Openreach I guess they keep all this stuff strictly private, and seems that I have no other recourse than to patiently sit and wait until they decide that the house does actually exist so that I can begin working again, massive pain in the backside and could be a serious issue as it'll eat into my savings whilst I'm effectively out of work - how on earth do they keep their monopoly if this is how they do business?

As for who has updated their address database, so far I have the insurance companies, the bank, my employer, the Royal Mail and all my utilities - honestly I cannot think of anyone else that I'd need to give my address to at the moment anyway.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Dec-15 20:23:17)

May I suggest that you stop talking about taking legal action and instead try and sort out the problem. Forget about the other houses unless you intend on moving into one of them, instead concentrate on your own. Remember also that installing FTTP isn't a job that can necessarily be ordered and installed in just a few days even if you have a gold address. There are plenty of others on this forum who have been waiting years for their FTTP connection to be up and running.

If you are going with Zen they are the only people you should be dealing with. Forget about BT OR, they are Zen's problems. However check with the developer and get in writing if at all possible that they have arranged with BT to connect up your property and that the only outstanding work is the final connection.

Thanks MCM, I actually have been trying to stop talking about legal action, the last 4 posts I've point out how I don't want to take this action - but others keep bringing it up so I feel I obliged to respond, but you are right - I'll not respond about this in future.

I agree about the other houses too, but again people asked questions about them so I felt oblidged to respond.

I have 4/5 emails from the developer that they have done all that they need, noting on paper though so I might get that. Whilst I get that I should only be dealing with Zen ( and would love to do only that) Openreach are not helping Zen at all. I also get that it might take some time for them to come install the product, but if they won't even accept that an order is in place then I don't see how it will ever be installed.

As previously mentioned, I actually don't care if I get FTTP or not, for what I use either would be fine, but FTTP is what is already installed, with the standard cable not available, believe me if standard cable was an option I would be going for that but since FTTP is all I have then that's what I need to get.

I'm going to try get Zen to place a phone line order and cancel it once I move in, fingers crossed this will then allow Openreach to add the order to their system.

Sorry Stranger, hope you don't think I'm sounding hostile, it's not my intention!

You say you don't know how they would provide a phone line, and you're right, it might be awkward - but they are used to new line orders, they are not used to new broadband orders without a line!

Even better, a new line order may be a FVA line, which may well mean they fit an FTTP ONT and BBU - meaning that installing broadband on phone number XXXXXXX is just a case of turning it on!

Edited by nemeth782 (Mon 14-Dec-15 08:57:16)

Thank Nemeth,

I have no idea what most of that means, but it sounds like getting Zen to place a phone line order too may well be the way forward, I know it'll be unlikely to be in place for Friday, but as long as I know it is going to happen I can work from coffee shops or other places with free wifi until it gets off the ground.

This whole thing would be much easier if it was at least possible to speak to Openreach, There process of a complete blackout on communication with anyone seems like an odd process for the regulator to allow.

Hi, for whats its worth here is my 2pence worth after experiencing similar frustrations after buying a new build.

I had to wait over a month after moving in to get a phone line, and another 3/4 weeks to then get FTTC.
There were people on the estate that had to wait 6months ! to get a phone line, since no copper had been installed or even thought of.. due to miscommunication between developer and BTOR.

As Mr S says this isn't a new issue on new builds (this is my 8th new build).

On an adjacent estate they have FTTP, but I know some people have had a to wait for some time after they moved in to get it installed. The ducts are in and most of the FTTC infrastructure is in, but not all the fibre is in. Not the last bits anyway. There are only a few BT engineers in this area who do the FTTC installs.. so thats part of the delay.

My advice again for what its worth is keep chasing the developer and your ISP.
Email your MP also... they may be able to add some pressure to BTOR.

I ended up going via BT Business and this helped since we have a business line and there was a business team I could chase and moan at.. they still had to wait for BTOR to physically install the fibre. In my case they were building so fast that the ducts only got signed off the week before we moved in, meaning BTOR didn't have much time to get the copper installed hence the delays. (I had ordered the line 2 months before I moved by the way and the order had been accepted.)

If you have 4G in the area, get yourself a MiFi or similar device to be able to work from home. In my case BT Business provided one due to the delays.

I hope you get your line installed soon but I'd suggest you prepare for a little delay.. I think it will work out for you in the end..

PS. As a result of speaking to our developer here and our MP etc.. the developer has paid Gap funding so we can get a new Fibre cab much closer the estate.. its going to take BTOR some time to install it.. but it's in the plan now at least..

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

This whole thing would be much easier if it was at least possible to speak to Openreach, There process of a complete blackout on communication with anyone seems like an odd process for the regulator to allow.

You will find that it is the regulator who actually puts some of the barriers in place - supposedly so that every OR customer is treated the same.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Thank Nemeth,

I have no idea what most of that means, but it sounds like getting Zen to place a phone line order too may well be the way forward, I know it'll be unlikely to be in place for Friday, but as long as I know it is going to happen I can work from coffee shops or other places with free wifi until it gets off the ground.

This whole thing would be much easier if it was at least possible to speak to Openreach, There process of a complete blackout on communication with anyone seems like an odd process for the regulator to allow.

Would you believe Openreach's refusal to talk to end users ever is something CAUSED by the regulator, they forced BT to work like this to "promote competition".

I messed up my last message anyway so no surprise it doesn't make much sense.

Assuming that FTTP with no line is a product on offer, then you have to take in to account that:

1. Less than 0.5% of lines are FTTP
2. The majority of FTTP lines are ordered through BT retail, maybe also Plusnet, who insist on you taking a phone line.

The two taken together mean it will be an incredibly rare occurrence for a job card to come through for a broadband install with no phone number alongside it. I can see how this might confuse BT.

Now, if you order a new line to a new address - this is basically routine to BT.

So the engineer either goes "hmm, there is no copper here, I have to install an ONT (optical network terminal, basically an FTTP modem) and BBU (Battery Backup Unit)", in which case you have everything you need to switch FTTP on, or he goes "Oh this is the line to go with this FTTP install" and installs everything. The worst case scenario is he goes "hmm, lets raise a massive job for installing a copper line", in which case you can probably get DSL if you have to.

It might be worth doing EE's xmas Sim and having 2 months of 100G/month 4G/3G data. Stick that in a random phone set as a hotspot and it gives you two months of internet at home to get this sorted

http://shop.ee.co.uk/campaigns/christmas-sim-from-ee

The plot thickens. Turns out that my address is �Gold Key matched� afterall I�ve been provided with the key from the provider, but seems that for some reason it�s been deleted off some of the Openreach systems � so I need to get the new build team to add this back on. This would explain why other houses are all going ok, but mine is stuck in a black hole.

I guess it�s back to the developer to see what they can do, I feel a bit like a ping pong ball at the moment.

I have used the wifi sticks before, and as a last choice I�ll do so again, but I found they needed a shed load of junkware to be installed on my PC that took forever to uninstall and seemed to slow it all down to a crawl, so I�ll do so as a last resort. I�d much prefer to work in a coffee shop first. I suppose it�s possible that they have gotten better as I tried this when they were fairly �new�

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

The plot thickens. Turns out that my address is �Gold Key matched� afterall I�ve been provided with the key from the provider, but seems that for some reason it�s been deleted off some of the Openreach systems � so I need to get the new build team to add this back on. This would explain why other houses are all going ok, but mine is stuck in a black hole.

I guess it�s back to the developer to see what they can do, I feel a bit like a ping pong ball at the moment.

I have used the wifi sticks before, and as a last choice I�ll do so again, but I found they needed a shed load of junkware to be installed on my PC that took forever to uninstall and seemed to slow it all down to a crawl, so I�ll do so as a last resort. I�d much prefer to work in a coffee shop first. I suppose it�s possible that they have gotten better as I tried this when they were fairly �new�

With Windows 10 most 4G dongles just work without installed crapware, if you have a random old android phone, you can stick the sim in that and turn on the wifi hotspot, and it's not any different to connecting to a normal wifi router.

The little personal hotspot devices (e.g. EE Osprey) are the same, just give you a wireless point to connect to, and boom, internet.

I bought a Netgear AC785 as I travel a lot, so you don't have to install anything on your PC or Mac. It means multiple users can share the hotspot.. or your phone and your laptop etc etc.

There are cheaper ones out there though (like the EE Osprey) as nemeth782 mentions.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but finally had some action on this.

After 5 weeks of emailing every address I could find for Openreach, 3 emails to the CEO of BT, two phone conversations with OfCom and a letter from my MP (yes it really has taken all of this just to get Openreach to answer an email) Openreach finally decided to answer one of my emails. I�m told that an engineer will be visiting the signal box on Monday.

My question now is � how long after the signal box is actually switched on can I expect to get my internet connection? The Provider hasn�t been able to place the order with BT Sales as the New Homes Team hadn�t completed what they need to complete, assuming this does all get done on Monday how quickly with Openreach sales be able to get me actually connected to the internet?

You will still need to order through your chosen ISP.

Thanks RobertoS,

I might not have been clear, I've had an order waiting from my ISP since October, but they haven't been able to place the order since the Sales team at Openreach hadn't been given the information from the New Homes team at Openreach (and apparently they cannot ask for it).

So assuming that the New Homes team at Openreach do pass the information to the Sales team at Openreach, and I can get my ISP to place the order with the Sales team at Openreach on Monday how quickly would it be for the internet to actually turn on? I know this might be a 'how long is a piece of string' question, but hopefully there is a rough estimate that someone can provide.

Given all the potential issues openreach seem have when actually trying to connect end users to to FTTP , plus its a new build, I'd give a rough estimate of between now and never

That was my fear too,

Was hoping that this might be the last step, and I do now have that most coveted of prizes, an actual contact phone number for an individual at Openreach - it's not even a generic number but a direct line to an actual person in their complaints team, hopefully if I keep on him it'll get sorted.

That's actually why I was wondering if there was an average time this should now take, I don't want to be on him every day (at the moment he seems genuinely keen to resolve this but that might change if I just call him all the time) so figured I'd just call if I'd heard nothing after the 'normal' period of time.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

I've had an order waiting from my ISP since October, but they haven't been able to place the order since the Sales team at Openreach hadn't been given the information from the New Homes team at Openreach (and apparently they cannot ask for it).

Given my own experience with Openreach (my FTTP order having been placed last July but there's still no end on sight) it appears that the problems within the company are administrative, not as the experts tend to justify..."oh, FTTP is difficult and will take an awful long time" and "oh, the retail provider is at fault for not chasing up Openreach", and "oh, it's the regulator's fault for making Openreach like this". It's no-one's fault but Openreach's!

Everything possible is done to keep the internal processes from leaking out, but when you start getting details of what's actually happening then it's a wonder the company is operational at all. It's a complete shambles internally, with cases being passed from dept to dept and sitting on someone's desk for weeks at at time, all sorts of chitties having to be raised and passed from person to person and stamped and approved, different sections not talking to each other, surveys not being done properly and wrong teams being sent out into the field. This applies not just to new installs but to fault repairs too.

We have some retail providers with dubious customer services in the market but also some very decent and highly-respected providers who also cannot get Openreach to shift.

Edited by deleted (Thu 14-Jan-16 13:37:04)

Yep, Openreach are a shambles, apparently BT today won the award for worst customer service in the UK � hardly surprising.

I�ve got my MP on board and we are going to lean very heavily on the regulator to ensure that they are broken up, removing their monopoly on the infrastructure of communications in the UK, I recently found out that OfCom are apparently �reviewing options� with regards to this anyway so hopefully I can make the whole process easier for others in future anyway � I certainly couldn�t make it any worse!

monopoly on the infrastructure of communications in the UK,

Major player certainly but not a monopoly and certainly not for new builds. There are other suppliers ranging from the small such as Gigaclear and Hyperoptic through SeeTheLight who often supply FTTP to new builds to Virgin Media.

But like VM, aren't you then stuck with them?

Leaving aside the rather limited number of ISPs who sell FTTP, although there are a few in addition to BT Retail & Business, then no, connecting via BT allows the end user to chose between many, many ISPs both big and small unlike VM where it is, AFAIK, VM or nothing.

I still see it as slightly odd, after all these years that what you describe has continued unchallenged.

'We are all created equal, though some are more equal than others.'

In reply to a post by MCM:

There are other suppliers ranging from the small such as Gigaclear and Hyperoptic through SeeTheLight who often supply FTTP to new builds to Virgin Media.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

But like VM, aren't you then stuck with them?

I can't imagine how you could think that I would have said that about BT.

I'm a bit confused by "who often supply FTTP to new builds to Virgin Media" however. That seems to be saying VM can supply FTTP via such companies, which would be news to me.

I'm a bit confused by "who often supply FTTP to new builds to Virgin Media" however. That seems to be saying VM can supply FTTP via such companies, which would be news to me

Perhaps you would understand better if I were to have written from a, through b who supply FTTP to new builds, to z. Nowhere do I suggest VM supply FTTP to new builds nor that any one else supplies VM. IOW put a comma following "builds". SeeTheLight certainly DO supply FTTP to new builds but not, as you agree, VM who are indeed however an alternative to BT.

Thanks everyone, the contact I have at Openreach has said I should be able to order the service on Wednesday so we shall see what happens.

I didn't know that other companies (other than Virgin Media) had authority to lay down the infrastructure for internet connections, I know that there are many ISPs (indeed I'm not going with BT as they are the worse customer service company in the UK) but had no idea that there were options other than Openreach for the actual cabling.

Either way they clearly abuse their dominant position, and as already said my MP is keen to see a break up of Openreach, and I know Ofcom are considering it too. I'm just mad enough at Openreach to keep on top of them both and see this through

Glad it looks as if you are making progress though I gather installing FTTP lines is not generally a quick process.

I would still maintain its likely to be your developer ultimately at fault though. We have some new housing being built near us - they are still months away from completing the shell. let alone people moving in - but the new addresses already appear in the Openreach database..

Breaking up Openreach isn't on the table.

Separating it more fully from BT has been suggested - its already pretty independent - but if that happens I suspect future network investment will drop as they can't rely on BT Group's credit rating etc.

I think Openreach have even gone on record saying if they were independent they would have rolled out FTTC commercially to fewer premises and taken longer.

Considering that it is Openreach who refused to reply to me for 5 weeks � and that they admit they deleted the details of the equipment they installed and are solely resolving the matter on their own without needing to speak to or involve the developer I don�t think this is the developers fault at all personally.

I�ve spoken to my MP and to OfCom within the last 2 weeks, both have informed me that breaking up Openreach is very much on the table so not quite sure why you don�t think it is (admittedly OfCom said it was 1 of 6 possible options)

Hummm, the people in charge of Openreach (who are also in charge of BT) advise that splitting the two companies would be bad for the UK � wow, that never happens ever, it MUST be true.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Considering that it is Openreach who refused to reply to me for 5 weeks � and that they admit they deleted the details of the equipment they installed and are solely resolving the matter on their own without needing to speak to or involve the developer I don�t think this is the developers fault at all personally.

Why should OpenReach communicate directly with you? Are you their customer? NO you are not. Why did your chosen ISP not progress the issue? They are the ones to blame.

Fingers crossed .

Don't get confused by the reference to other companies for cabling in a confusing post by MHC. Only Openreach provide cabling to the premises available on a wholesale basis to all Communications Providers. The others only provide their own broadband services, so anyone with them are stuck with them. (I believe DirectSaveTelecom have access to Seethelight infrastructure).

As many house buyers have found when developers/landowners have dealt with them instead of Openreach and not made it clear to their customers.

Also of them only VM can currently be described as a nationwide supplier.

informed me that breaking up Openreach is very much on the table

This may be a confusion of nomenclature. Breaking Openreach out of BT is under review - breaking up Openreach is not.

Just a detail that is probably just a slipup in your wording. Breaking up Openreach isn't on the table. Splitting it out of the BT Group as a separate company is.

Snap!

Great minds eh

MHC,

Openreach would respond to me directly as they asked me to provide them with information.

My ISP was unable to do this as the ISP is ONLY able to speak to the sales team, and the sales team at Openreach couldn't do anything because the New Homes team wouldn't release the information that I was trying to give them,

Hopefully this clears up your confusion - Openreach refused to respond to me AFTER they asked me to provide them with the information they needed to get my order moving again. Considering that they asked me and not my ISP (who I would have been happy for them to speak to, but the new homes team don't speak to ISPs) I don't think it is at all unreasonable to expect them to respond to one of my 15 emails that I sent over a 5 week period.

Also, my ISP did everything that they could - including trying to contact the new homes team also, they were also ignored. You cannot pass off Openreaches choice not to speak to anyone as a problem with the ISP I'm afraid.

I trust this clears up why I expected Openreach to speak directly to me.

Again, your defence of Openreach seems odd considering that they themselves have now admitted to me that they were at fault.

I don't mind that mistakes were made, it's this whole "Not my problem, you need to speak to the department that nobody - not even us - is allowed to speak to" that is the problem with Openreach.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Jan-16 11:04:42)

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

Considering that it is Openreach who refused to reply to me for 5 weeks � and that they admit they deleted the details of the equipment they installed and are solely resolving the matter on their own without needing to speak to or involve the developer I don�t think this is the developers fault at all personally.

The developers would have an existing contact in Openreach to get FTTP installed - probably in the new homes team you say no one else speaks too.

I�ve spoken to my MP and to OfCom within the last 2 weeks, both have informed me that breaking up Openreach is very much on the table so not quite sure why you don�t think it is (admittedly OfCom said it was 1 of 6 possible options)

Others have explained what Ofcom are considering and its not breaking up Openreach as explained but making it more independent of BT. I think they may even have hinted that this option was unlikely..

Hummm, the people in charge of Openreach (who are also in charge of BT) advise that splitting the two companies would be bad for the UK � wow, that never happens ever, it MUST be true.

I think the people in charge of Openreach are technically and legally different from the other parts of BT.

However, I can forecast what might happen if Openreach went totally separate:

1. It would take a while for any new system to settle.
2. BT Retail would switch to LLU (they nearly did a few years ago).
3. Openreach would struggle to justify investment in its network. Most large ISP's are not interested in new services but getting existing services as cheap as possible - which is why Sky and Talktalk took so long to market FTTC and still don't offer FTTP.

If different parts of BT/Openreach don't speak to each other - its probably the regulator who is creating barriers to them doing so.

I�ve heard this idea that the regulator puts barriers on different parts of BT speaking to each other or to ISPs before, OfCom certainly gave the impression to me that they are as frustrated about Openreach not speaking to anyone as I am so I find it a little hard to believe.

I�m not even sure WHY they would do this, I�ve been told it�s to �increase competition� � but if only one company is installing an open network then what competition is there? Even if there was competition how does preventing one team at Openreach from speaking to another team, or to their customer (i.e. the ISPs not the end user) from speaking to these teams actively encourage competition?

The whole thing sounds like a cop out to me invented by Openreach to cover up their bad business practice. I suppose it is possible that there is an unclear regulation and Openreach interpret it one way whilst OfCom intended it another. Spending all day reading and implementing government guidance in my day job I can entirely believe this to be true.

As for the developers, they are the ones who put me in touch with the new homes team to begin with. They needed details about the equipment in my house but as the developer no longer had access to the house (since I have no internet I need to be in the office when they are on site) then they forwarded me the new build team email address. Again, other than what they did I�m not sure the developer could have done more.

I�ll accept I may have got the breakup of Openreach wrong, it is possible that they were speaking about splitting it more from BT.

BT Retail can speak to Openreach. But only under the same circumstances and rules as every other customer of Openreach can. The idea is that there is equivalence for all ISPs and that BT don't get an unfair advantage because they are part of the same group.

The idea of splitting Openreach even further away from BT Group is to give other big ISPs like Sky and TalkTalk the ability to sway Openreach's plans for new rollouts/products. Ofcom believe splitting them off would make this easier.

Customers generally aren't talking to Openreach as they are not customers of Openreach but are actually customers of the ISP and the ISP contracts Openreach to deliver the service.

See that makes sense - but I don't get why BT Openreach Sales team wouldn't be able to speak to BT Openreach New Homes team, they are the same company and preventing them from speaking to each other doesn't promote competition to anyone else.

Similarly, let all ISPs speak to the New Homes Team if they need to, BT retail included. This is just as fair as preventing BT Retail from speaking to them but nowhere near as frustrating to the end user or ISPs

Do I believe that Ofcom said Openreach must treat BT Retail like all other ISPs? - Yes I do, do I believe that they have said that Openreach should not speak to anyone, including their own internal departments? - No I don't

I personally would have loved to have not had to speak to Openreach at all, but their own practise of not allowing my ISP (or any ISP) or their own internal teams from speaking to the people that need to sort the problem out is what I'm railing against. If you don't want to speak to the end user that is fine, it's even OK if you don't want certain teams to speak to the ISP, but at least have some way for the ISP to pass a message to the team that needs to do the work.

To block off all contact to a certain team, even from within your own organisation does not promote competition, it just leads to really frustrated ISPs and end users and situations like this where BT get awarded the "worst customer service in the UK" (apparently awarded to BT yesterday) and a regulator who is frustrated and looking at ways to force them to work better.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Jan-16 12:43:47)

OK, so I don't think any rules about access to the New Homes team are anything to do with Ofcom or competition. That is Openreach's own internal decision - they presumably have some business reason for limiting contact to that team but I have no idea what that reason is.

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

I�ve heard this idea that the regulator puts barriers on different parts of BT speaking to each other or to ISPs before, OfCom certainly gave the impression to me that they are as frustrated about Openreach not speaking to anyone as I am so I find it a little hard to believe.

There are Ofcom rules to prevent Openreach favouring BT over another provider by making sure they all have the same information at the same time - so none gains an unfair advantage. I suspect the rules are pretty clear cut.

Openreach recently suggested they would like to talk more to end users (i.e. when fixing faults) but some providers objected to that idea as they want to control the customer relationship with their end customers.

As for the developers, they are the ones who put me in touch with the new homes team to begin with. They needed details about the equipment in my house but as the developer no longer had access to the house (since I have no internet I need to be in the office when they are on site) then they forwarded me the new build team email address. Again, other than what they did I�m not sure the developer could have done more.

Taken the details from you and passed them to Openreach? That would have avoided adding more complexity and I suspect been quicker.

In reply to a post by gt94sss2:

Taken the details from you and passed them to Openreach? That would have avoided adding more complexity and I suspect been quicker.

True, that may have been quicker, I suppose the Developer could have helped move this a little quicker afterall.

I still wouldn't put it down to the Developers fault however. The new build team is the team that asked me a set of questions then refused to reply or acknowledge me answers for 5 weeks - the developer can't really be held responsible for that.

Again, I can see and understand why BT Retail isn't allowed preferential treatment to other ISPs, I just don't get how blocking one Openreach department from requesting information from another in any way does that. That is simply an internal Openreach decision to make and they should therefore take the blame for it and not try claim that 'The regulator made us do it' (in fairness to Openreach they haven't said that, it's just been implied on this thread that that is the case)

In reply to a post by gt94sss2:

If different parts of BT/Openreach don't speak to each other - its probably the regulator who is creating barriers to them doing so.

If that is happening then it sounds more a case of "malicious compliance" by Openreach. (A bit like when my electricity provider Scottish Power was a bit stingy during the bad storms of 2 years ago and would only give me £25 in compensation for 3 days loss over Christmas when other companies were being more generous considering the circumstances - and when I complained, they replied "oh, it's what the regulator sets". Well, due to 6that situation, the regaultor has now indeed stepped in and raised the minimum allowances so they now have to offer more. I got £110 last week for a 2 day loss just before Christmas. That's what comes of malicious compliance.)

If there is a communication problem between Openreach and their customers then that is Openreach's doing, not the regulator's. There is no reason why BT and Openreach should have some sort of special path to each other to sort things out, therefore Openreach must be communicating equally badly with all their customers. What barriers could the regulator possibly be placing deliberately to ensure that companies don't talk to each other?

Or do we mean that Openreach isn't communcating with itself internally between depts? In which case, it's still Openreach's fault.

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Jan-16 16:03:24)

You really couldn�t make this up � Openreach must be the biggest shower of excrement company that I�ve ever had the misfortune to deal with.

After the progress that was made on Thursday I truly felt that I was getting somewhere, but once again they have proven themselves to be a company that is incapable of doing even simple things.

I took a day without pay on Monday to stay in for their engineer, only to be informed at 5:30pm that he would not be attending my house � but that he would attend on Tuesday, frustrating but understandable if I was the last call of the day and he hadn�t been able to get to it (and assuming Overtime is not an option). Thinking that I would be at the front, or near the front of the list on Tuesday I took another day without pay and this time I don�t even get the courtesy call to say he isn�t coming.

�Not to worry� I think � �I have a direct line to a member of Openreach�s complaint team�. Except I don�t as he refuses to answer the phone or respond to the messages I�ve left.

How is this company able to stay in business? It beggers belief that a company such as this is able to stay in operation, I can only assume that all the cash they save by not hiring any staff to do the job they are paid to is handed over in bribes to the Government, I really can see no other reason that someone hasn�t shut them down years ago.

So why after all that has been said are you still trying to contact Openreach directly ?

As has been said many times in this thread, your point of contact for all this is Zen.

Because as I have said multiple time Openreach are the one who asked me questions, and now Openreach are the ones who have made an appointment with me.

It's not unreasonable when you get asked a question to be able to give the answer to a person who asked it.

To put it another way, if Dave asked me a question I wouldn�t give my answers to Pete to pass on to Dave, I would respond to Dave.

If Dave makes an appointment with me I wouldn�t expect Pete to call me if Dave is unable to make the appointment � I�d expect Dave to do it.

This is doubly true when Pete is also unable to speak to Dave.

You cannot honestly believe that it is my ISPs fault that Openreach cannot keep an appointment?

I actually do keep in regular contact with my ISP, and they are also trying to keep on at Openreach also, but it's Openreach who have given me numbers that they don't answer and make appointments they don't keep - that isn't my ISPs fault at all.

Edited by deleted (Wed 20-Jan-16 13:58:16)

You cannot honestly believe that it is my ISPs fault that Openreach cannot keep an appointment?

At what point did I say that I did believe that ?

What I do believe is that Openreach's customers are the various service providers, they undertake work on their behalf, therefore it is down to, in your case, Zen and Openreach to sort this out.

But Openreach won�t speak to Zen, Zen are not allowed to speak to anyone but the Sales team (at Openreach), and the Sales team (at Openreach) is not allowed to speak to the new homes team (at Openreach), so perhaps you believe that I should just sit quietly and wait for Openreach to magically divine that my internet connection is not properly installed?

With regards to the appointment not being made, the Engineer made the appointments with me directly, Zen were not involved. I therefore fail to see why I should involve Zen at all (although I have as I�ve kept them up to date at all stages) Zen shouldn�t need to chase it as they were not involved in the appointment process at all.

To make it clear, Zen haven't even placed the order with Openreach yet, we haven't even got to that stage - they are unable to do so as Openreach have no record of the equipment that they installed in the property. It's therefore nothing to do with Zen at the moment, it is entirely something that Openreach need to resolve with someone who can give them access to the property.

To make it clear, Zen haven't even placed the order with Openreach yet,

.... and then you are surprised when Openreach have not done anything ??

With regards to the appointment not being made, the Engineer made the appointments with me directly

This was an Openreach engineer ? They have no authority/ability to make their own appointments.

I entirely agree that the whole process is a hideous hotch-potch, and far from perfect. But, the process is, person decides they want a service from CP at their address, they order from their chosen CP, the CP and their supplier (Openreach in this instance) sorts the rest out.

If Zen have not yet placed an order, why should their supplier do anything ?

Well, just spoken to Paul Gilhooley (an quick google search shows him as the head of Openreach customer Service) who has at least explained a little of what has happened. There is no need for an engineer to come out at all � which is a little frustrating that I wasted two days of my life for.

They have two systems in place (phoenix and something else) and whist my account is present in Phoenix it isn�t in the other one (ENP or something similar). This explains why I�ve been unable to place the order with Zen at least.

Annoyingly all that is required is to �push� the information from Phoenix to ENP and I should be all setup to go tomorrow morning (baring the process failing again).

It�s a shame Openreach are so adept at refusing to speak to the public � in the space of a 5 minute phone call I was able to give Paul all the information he needed to be able to push this through. Will they learn from this, probably not.

And for all those who have kept saying I need to speak to Zen, Paul himself admitted that there is nothing they could have done, as they could not deal with Zen due to me not being their customer yet (as Zen cannot place the order as the line isn�t on the ENP system)

So fingers crossed for tomorrow, I�ll be sure to publish the full contact details for all the contacts I�ve made at Openreach once this is done (with the exception of Pauls private mobile number as that would be unfair).

Paul himself admitted that there is nothing they could have done, as they could not deal with Zen due to me not being their customer yet

If Zen have not yet placed an order, why should their supplier do anything ?

A mexican stand off ?

Not really, despite the opinion on this thread that I should not speak to Openreach Openreach themselves have been pretty much happy to speak to me when I finally get to a human being. They have freely accepted that I need to speak to them and not the ISP (With the exception of a few junior level employees who just spill the mindless �Speak to your ISP� mantra on demand)

In reply to a post by Stranger83:

To make it clear, Zen haven't even placed the order with Openreach yet, we haven't even got to that stage - they are unable to do so as Openreach have no record of the equipment that they installed in the property.

Whether or not a telephone line and/or other equipment is already installed shouldn't stop an ISP placing an order - it just needs to use your address.. and if an address isn't in Openreach's system they can still place an order.

Just out of interest, you obviously did move in. So what FTTP equipment, if any, has been installed? Or does it end with a cord in a tube against the wall just outside?

Why do you think the OP is wrong when he repeatedly states that Openreach themselves have confirmed that the ISP was unable to do anything until after they had done something? Are you suggesting that either OpenReach or the OP are lying about what has happened?

It appears the OP pretty much has it sorted and that OpenReach have confirmed the ISP couldn't do anything and that the OP was right in talking to OpenReach. Maybe we should give the benefit of the doubt?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Just out of interest, you obviously did move in. So what FTTP equipment, if any, has been installed? Or does it end with a cord in a tube against the wall just outside?

Nope, they full equipment was installed, however instead of two green lights, I had a green and a red light If I could send you a photo I would.

I've been told that the red light is because they modem is not on the ENP system, which considering Paul said he would get it put on that system overnight and the light has turned green this morning would seem to be correct.

So it seem that I'm finally at the point that I can actually place the order with Zen - I'll be speaking to them today to make sure that that is actually the case after which I'll be more than happy to follow everyones advise here and deal with Zen only, frankly if I never deal with Openreach again it'll be too soon.

Once I'm connected and can get onto my emails properly - and not be stuck using a phone - I'll upload a list of contact emails for the various people at Openreach to help others with similar issues.

Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jan-16 08:48:01)

gt94sss2, with regards to placing the order with just an address,

Apparently this is not the case, to place an order it needs to be on both the Phoenix and ENP system - weather this is something unique to FTTP I'm not sure but I can assure you that it is NOT possible to place a FTTP order with just an address.

Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Jan-16 08:49:09)

I don't think Openreach would be happy with you giving out contact details so I'd avoid it if I were you. Or seek permission from the people who's contact information you're prepared to dish out.

I don't think Openreach would be happy with you giving out contact details so I'd avoid it if I were you. Or seek permission from the people who's contact information you're prepared to dish out.

I completely agree. At very least check with this sites mods before doing so,

Nope, they full equipment was installed, however instead of two green lights, I had a green and a red light If I could send you a photo I would.

Why have you not added this detail earlier ? The red PON light would have indicated to me that the issue was past the head end of things.

That they are both green now indicates that physically Openreach had done nothing wrong with the installation.

It would just seem to have been a cock-up on a remote system.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

I don't think Openreach would be happy with you giving out contact details so I'd avoid it if I were you. Or seek permission from the people who's contact information you're prepared to dish out.

+1

These people probably should have told the OP to get lost. Even though it looks as if he would have been stuck until his MP or the CEO's office got on the trail.

Publishing such a list could only make it even more difficult for anyone else in the same situation, not easier. The information the OP has now given should provide all the help needed, as he has given the cause and solution.

Hehe! /me asked wot wuz thurr. It suddenly occurred to me we hadn't done.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Nope, they full equipment was installed, however instead of two green lights, I had a green and a red light If I could send you a photo I would.

Why have you not added this detail earlier ? The red PON light would have indicated to me that the issue was past the head end of things.

That they are both green now indicates that physically Openreach had done nothing wrong with the installation.

It would just seem to have been a cock-up on a remote system.

Indeed, once I was able to speak to a human they too were able to sort this fairly quickly � which brings me right back to my initial problem, asking if all the lights were green was the first question that Openreach asked me � but they ignored me for 5 weeks whilst I tried to tell them that they were not. Even if I had published this info it wouldn't have helped me speak to the man at Openreach (and I had reported on multiple occasions that the problem was that the house wasn't on the Openreach system - which is how it was reported to me by the ISP)

As for �these people should have told me to get lost� � I can tell that you would be an ideal fit for the middle management at Openreach, you should apply for a job there. �These people� are the very people who are needed to sort these problem, they have been massively apologetic about the middle management and their attitude of �You should just wait until someone else sorts it out�. Of cause Openreach could just provide contact details for people themselves, and indeed they do but you only know the name of the person you need to speak to once you have gotten past a huge amount of middle management who refuse point blank to give you this information, if they sorted this out (and I�ve made very clear to them that they should do this) then I�ll have no need to publish contact details for them �or at the very least a link to the Openreach page that provides the contact details you actually need.

I think the final part of your reply to Zarjaz is about what I just posted. Sorry, my wording was unclear.

By "should have told you to get lost" I meant that is what their management would require them to "politely" have done. Publishing their details could lead to disciplinary action against them for not so doing. Which is a good reason for not publishing their details.

I fully agree the Openreach senior management policy in this respect is flawed. I was not agreeing with it.

If you have a link to a publicly available Openreach contact page, I see no harm in that. I often give out the email address of the BT Group CEO, but that is public information. As I did two days ago in the broken line thread with another Openreach problem.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 21-Jan-16 11:02:46)

The real problem is the BT organisation is shambolic and the various business units don't really talk to each other and then add in their concept of customer services is poor and it is easy to see why you got the problems you do. No one takes ownership of customer service issues it is more like pass the parcel. Nor our fault mater try Fred down the road

The BT service levels and customer service issues though show little sign of improvement

Post deleted by MrSaffron

I hope you cleared it with him before issuing his email address in a public domain !!!

though I very much doubt it

I suspect not.

Hopefully Mr S will be along soon and can edit the post. It's not right to be giving out such information.

Am sure your intentions with the email addresses were honourable, but for the email addresses that are not public then they are removed.

The reason is that far too often once emails go widely public they get swamped or in some cases abused and any usefulness from knowing the address vanishes.

Well that is disappointing as I took great care to only provide contact details that are freely available on the Openreach website if you are aware what to look for, I even included a link to the page with it all on. This is vital information for people in a similar predicament to save them having to spend 6 weeks searching for it all themselves.

For anyone who was watching or finds this thread and is looking for advise I have just bought the domain howtocomplaintobtopenreach.co.uk so if you are wondering what to do in a similar situation please head there and I�ll try get the site up and running in a few days.

the issue is that they are around new build only -- which is not the inference you have given

In reply to a post by Fastman2:

the issue is that they are around new build only -- which is not the inference you have given

Please check the subject of the thread before posting nonsense.

Seems like you are not alone.

BT's Openreach 'failing' on new home broadband:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35427580

In reference to www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35427580:

Many residents moving into newly-built homes are finding broadband services slow or non-existent, an investigation from broadband advice site Cable.co.uk has revealed.

It has received hundreds of complaints from owners of new homes about poor broadband.

According to the Home Builders Federation, BT Openreach has failed to connect new homes on time.

The comment from Barratts is the most telling in the item and the new USO while being good for a base line, may mean less developers bother with the better solutions and just rely on the USO fall back ie. its less hassle for them.

Batboy -- anything but nonsense !!!!!!

those email address were New build escalation only not any issue with openreach -- even more concerning is the domain strange 83 is setting up

I assume your work email address is not in the public domain -Lucky you !!!!- when it is you might have second tthoughts when you get 150 emails about sometihing you know nothing about all wanting a response because someone has found you on a web site and published your email address without first clearing it with you

In reply to a post by Fastman2:

Batboy -- anything but nonsense !!!!!!

those email address were New build escalation

That's right, which is what the subject refers to - Openreach being a bottleneck for internet to a new build

I have just been providing some advice to an electrician responsible for wiring up a development of apartments. She (yes she) wanted to run CW1308 x2, Cat5e or Cat6 x2 and a polyduct from the small utility room to each apartment. The developer was saying no, just one CW1308 or a Cat5e and that is all.

Her way would allow customers to chose ADSL or VDSL delivered on the phone line, or VDSL in the utility area with an Ethernet feed. Fibre terminated in the utility area or in the apartment. And the extra cost - minimal when compared to the overall costs of the wiring for each apartment.

So, when it comes to providing FTTP or similar who will be at fault? The finger will be pointed at BT ... and the developer will be no where to be seen.

I would have suggest they gap funded a fibre cab in the basement and just used the exisiting copper to each flat !!!!!

How do we know it isn't a routine installation of the buildings internal infrastructure and pavement joint boxes plus trunking by a developer and no problem with Openreach connecting up once completed?

Link.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 31-Jan-16 00:03:20)

That was another suggestion ... however it is the developer who is the stumbling block. He is not prepared to put in te capapbility to work with current state of the art technologies or to even put in a degree of future proofing. Ducting to get fibre to each house, or a central fibre termination and each apartment fed from the single fibre through Gbit Ethernet ...

If only he could see the benefits of "comms infrastructure to support Gbit speeds" - may cost £200-500 per apartment but could add £1000-5000 to the purchase prices.

In reply to a post by Fastman2:

Batboy -- anything but nonsense !!!!!!

those email address were New build escalation only not any issue with openreach -- even more concerning is the domain strange 83 is setting up

I assume your work email address is not in the public domain -Lucky you !!!!- when it is you might have second tthoughts when you get 150 emails about sometihing you know nothing about all wanting a response because someone has found you on a web site and published your email address without first clearing it with you

Firstly, I didn't provide any email address that isn't already in the public domain, Openreach just go to great lengths to hide it but they are there once you know what to search for.

Secondly, Paul Gilhooley is the head of Openreach Customer Service, so to claim that he only works with New Builds and nothing else is just plain wrong.

Finally, the new build email addresses I provided is given to anyone who writes to the form that I previously provided a link to - so this could be found by anyone who is able to find that form (again this is public domain, Openreach just like to keep it hard to find). I also took great care to point out in my post that that was for New Builds only - so your claim that I was saying the new build addresses was to be used by everyone is again just plain wrong.

I've been given and have nearly 15 email addresses for people at Openreach, the only ones that I am providing and will put on my website are the ones that you can find via the Openreach site itself, my website however will make these easier to find than the Openreach site.