pushing to FTTP

i was chatting to someone a couple of days ago online, they don't live around here, anyway FTTP is available where they are, but they are on FTTC and get pretty good speed as they are really close to the cabinet. They told me they had a email from the provider to say they are going to connect them to FTTP and that they need to make an appointment for this, they will still pay the same price and still keep the same speed.
It seems like they are being pushed to FTTP, but they don't want it, they are halfway though their contract, so surly they could refuse this FTTP and carry on with FTTC until the end of their contract?

i am sure he said he is with vodafone.

I hope that providers are not going to do this when we get Openreach FTTP available. i know of someone who lives the other side of town on ADSL and he gets emails about updating, but that would cost them more.

Its always possible the ISP has a deal with an alt-net whose charges to the ISP are lower than Openreach charges. Getting FTTP for free on a switch from FTTC seems a sensible thing to do, a) better reliability, and b) full 80/20 service without distance issues.

I wouldn’t refuse a free upgrade, but if your friend wants to refuse, they could ask to migrate out for free.

ISPs get volume discount from Openreach so it's in their interest to sell FTTP.
Then you also get people complaining no one tells them FTTP is available and providers are not advertising it. Can't please everyone.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Its always possible the ISP has a deal with an alt-net whose charges to the ISP are lower than Openreach charges. Getting FTTP for free on a switch from FTTC seems a sensible thing to do, a) better reliability, and b) full 80/20 service without distance issues.

I wouldn’t refuse a free upgrade, but if your friend wants to refuse, they could ask to migrate out for free.

Not really a friend as such, more of an acquaintance from a group I chat in.

I am not 100% sure why he doesn't want to go FTTP, he said something about hassle, which to some degree I agree with him, which is one reason why I am not that bothered about changing.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

ISPs get volume discount from Openreach so it's in their interest to sell FTTP.
Then you also get people complaining no one tells them FTTP is available and providers are not advertising it. Can't please everyone.

it is nice to know it is available, when it comes here, it will be nice if they tell us, which I am sure zzoomm will. But people should not be pushed into it.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

it is nice to know it is available, when it comes here, it will be nice if they tell us, which I am sure zzoomm will. But people should not be pushed into it.

Existing ISPs using Openreach infrastructure won't be pushing people to zzoomm. Not all ISPs will do this, but I think they should as once the infrastructure is built, it is crazy to not use it, even if you only purchase a 40 / 10 service using it.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

ISPs get volume discount from Openreach so it's in their interest to sell FTTP.
Then you also get people complaining no one tells them FTTP is available and providers are not advertising it. Can't please everyone.

Thanks, and typical

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Existing ISPs using Openreach infrastructure won't be pushing people to zzoomm. Not all ISPs will do this, but I think they should as once the infrastructure is built, it is crazy to not use it, even if you only purchase a 40 / 10 service using it.

LOL, I realise that people will not be pushed from openreach to zzoomm
I meant I am sure zzoomm will tell us when their service is available. My brother lives where zzoomm is now available, and they have had a few leaflets dropped though their door, even had a visit.

I still have no idea what is happening here, with both open reach and zzoomm people around, saying that i have not seen openreach up here for a few days. I have seen zzoomm around the corner and the telegraph pole at the top of my road now have some gubbins on. Not come down my road yet. But they don't work at the weekend.

No doubt one day it will all be fibre, but it should still be up to the individual.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

ISPs get volume discount from Openreach so it's in their interest to sell FTTP.
Then you also get people complaining no one tells them FTTP is available and providers are not advertising it. Can't please everyone.

it is nice to know it is available, when it comes here, it will be nice if they tell us, which I am sure zzoomm will. But people should not be pushed into it.

The BDUK installed fibre around here has never been 'advertised' to anyone apart from BT customers, just a couple of months back a woman down road had it installed thinking she was one of first not knowing it has been available for couple of years.
We get leafleted by VM even though nearest is 5+ miles away.

Well they can't force their way in and install it without the owner agreeing. If a provider is insisting they must move from Copper to FTTP and the owner hasn't requested change then that is wrong.
Only instance would be in a copper stop/sell area and the owner wanted a new connection or change of service, but I presume that isn't the case here, and probably just a pushy sales incentive.

There's another Openreach programme running that makes FTTP the sole product available (FTTP Priority Exchange programme). This means that once FTTP is available by Openreach to your property in areas included in the programme a stop sell of copper based products come into effect.

To understand more any why have a look at: https://landlinesgo.digital/openreach-retiring-our-c...

You will be forced to VOIP. Are you going to refuse that or just use your mobile?

I would note that my energy provider has been sending me letters and emails for years telling me I "need to book appointment for fitting smart meter", ain't happened yet.

In reply to a post by burble:

I would note that my energy provider has been sending me letters and emails for years telling me I "need to book appointment for fitting smart meter", ain't happened yet.

Same here, but I think its a little different in that the electricity supply is the same. With broadband there is the opportunity to get rid of the distance dependency, for the same price (if the ISP offers).

But doesn't FTTP mean that your drive gets dug up by a cowboy contactor?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by burble:

I would note that my energy provider has been sending me letters and emails for years telling me I "need to book appointment for fitting smart meter", ain't happened yet.

Same here, but I think its a little different in that the electricity supply is the same. With broadband there is the opportunity to get rid of the distance dependency, for the same price (if the ISP offers).

For myself, FTTC had poor speed and reliability, so getting FTTP was a good move, but if you have reliable FTTC then there's not so much incentive, the person in OP might have to take time off work to have it fitted, they might be concerned about having VOIP, they might not want 'Kowboy Communications' messing up the install etc. I can see why someone with a good service has no desire to change it.

In reply to a post by michaelh:

But doesn't FTTP mean that your drive gets dug up by a cowboy contactor?

Not always, it could be delivered from a pole, or routed sensibly by Openreach (or alt-net) staff.

Has the ISP made any actual mention of enforcing a new contract term?

No poles here - it's all underground

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i was chatting to someone a couple of days ago online, they don't live around here, anyway FTTP is available where they are, but they are on FTTC and get pretty good speed as they are really close to the cabinet. They told me they had a email from the provider to say they are going to connect them to FTTP and that they need to make an appointment for this, they will still pay the same price and still keep the same speed.
It seems like they are being pushed to FTTP, but they don't want it, they are halfway though their contract, so surly they could refuse this FTTP and carry on with FTTC until the end of their contract?

They could - but equally, the provider that wants them to switch them to FTTP shouldn't require the property owner to take out a new contract in this situation (unless they choose to do so).

Note that if they are in a copper stop sell area, but choose to remain on copper, they won't be able to cease and reprovide, nor migrate to another provider, nor regrade to a different speed. In that situation, any new or modified service *must* be provided on FTTP - copper orders will be rejected by Openreach.

FTTP is coming sooner or later, so might as well get on the bandwagon now.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I hope that providers are not going to do this when we get Openreach FTTP available. i know of someone who lives the other side of town on ADSL and he gets emails about updating, but that would cost them more.

For the low-cost providers, the prices I've seen are typically £1 per month extra for FTTC over ADSL. Of course, "every little counts".

What might happen in the end is that the ADSL service will be withdrawn, i.e. at end of contract the provider will decline to renew, and will then serve notice of termination.

In reply to a post by michaelh:

No poles here - it's all underground

One housing estate here, the copper is direct in ground (no ducts); so the alt-net building FTTP are installing poles for their fibres. So anything is possible!

In reply to a post by burble:

The BDUK installed fibre around here has never been 'advertised' to anyone apart from BT customers, just a couple of months back a woman down road had it installed thinking she was one of first not knowing it has been available for couple of years.
We get leafleted by VM even though nearest is 5+ miles away.

Sound about right to be honest.
I had a leaflet here a couple of years ago about Virgin fibre, and I have no idea where the nearest place that is available is, but it is a lot more than 5+miles.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Well they can't force their way in and install it without the owner agreeing. If a provider is insisting they must move from Copper to FTTP and the owner hasn't requested change then that is wrong.
Only instance would be in a copper stop/sell area and the owner wanted a new connection or change of service, but I presume that isn't the case here, and probably just a pushy sales incentive.

He said it was the way the email was worded, we will be installing fibre to your premises, Not do you want it, but we are. Then went on to say that there are no extra costs and the speed will stay the same. Then a link to make an appointment.
I don't know what they will do if he doesn't contact them, he said he is not going to and see what happens.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

You will be forced to VOIP. Are you going to refuse that or just use your mobile?

Me or him? I am already using VoIP, so no problem to me. He has an alarm system that his wife uses just in case she falls over, that uses a normal phone line, i don't know if it will work with Voip.

In reply to a post by burble:

I would note that my energy provider has been sending me letters and emails for years telling me I "need to book appointment for fitting smart meter", ain't happened yet.

You are lucky, they are asking you, some people are being told that the appointment have already been made and some have had letters from their energy company charging them for missed appointments they have not made.

So glad i am with Octopus, only once have they asked me about a smart meter, and that is when my gas meter had to be changed due to it's age.
I said nope, don't want one, and they said ok, we will install an older style meter.

The emails they send me to say it is time to read my meter, sometimes have a small bit in, saying if I had a smart meter i would not need to read the meter ever again. But that is it, things could change as they get closer to the date where the government want everyone to have a smart meter.

In reply to a post by Sparx92:

Has the ISP made any actual mention of enforcing a new contract term?

I don't think so, he did not say anything about that, surly they could not do that anyway?

In reply to a post by michaelh:

But doesn't FTTP mean that your drive gets dug up by a cowboy contactor?

some is on poles, the road at the back of my house, they seem to be using poles. Yesterday when i came home from work i noticed a couple of cones around here, my next door neighbour said ZZoomm have put them down, so I presume they are coming today or tomorrow to start work, since they have put cones down, i presume they are going to dig, so it will be underground.
so noise for a couple of days.

They would have to dig here if I want Fibre, not sure how they would route it as I have a drive way and there is a wall holding it up and then a small gap to the house. Steps by the side of it.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

They could - but equally, the provider that wants them to switch them to FTTP shouldn't require the property owner to take out a new contract in this situation (unless they choose to do so).

Note that if they are in a copper stop sell area, but choose to remain on copper, they won't be able to cease and reprovide, nor migrate to another provider, nor regrade to a different speed. In that situation, any new or modified service *must* be provided on FTTP - copper orders will be rejected by Openreach.

FTTP is coming sooner or later, so might as well get on the bandwagon now.

All i know that he had an email saying they are moving him to fibre, same price and that sort of thing. I don't think is Wife is well, so maybe he doesn't want people in unless they have to, and he said his broadband works fine. Get far better speed than I do.

Maybe at some point he won't have a choice, but I think he will stay with what he has as long as he can.



For the low-cost providers, the prices I've seen are typically £1 per month extra for FTTC over ADSL. Of course, "every little counts".

What might happen in the end is that the ADSL service will be withdrawn, i.e. at end of contract the provider will decline to renew, and will then serve notice of termination.


£4 difference with plusnet, £4 is £4 i suppose and if you are living on a fixed budget it could pay for some food.
They are with Talk Talk i think and Talk Talk don't even offer ADSL on their website now.

Well, Zzoomm is starting here now, they put their cones here yesterday, but one of them was moved by a neighbour.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by Sparx92:

Has the ISP made any actual mention of enforcing a new contract term?

I don't think so, he did not say anything about that, surly they could not do that anyway?

I'd be very wary about that. This seems like a sales initiative dressed up as a free upgrade. I would expect them to want a new contract term as part of the package.
They can just ignore it and carry on. There is no FTTC widrawal on the horizon.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I'd be very wary about that. This seems like a sales initiative dressed up as a free upgrade. I would expect them to want a new contract term as part of the package.
They can just ignore it and carry on. There is no FTTC widrawal on the horizon.

That was my first thought, but why keep it at the speed he is on?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I'd be very wary about that. This seems like a sales initiative dressed up as a free upgrade. I would expect them to want a new contract term as part of the package.
They can just ignore it and carry on. There is no FTTC widrawal on the horizon.

That was my first thought, but why keep it at the speed he is on?

I refer you to my 1st post. They want the volume discount. They are not concerned about speed upgrade.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I refer you to my 1st post. They want the volume discount. They are not concerned about speed upgrade.

He said he is just going to ignore the emails, see what happens. The alarm system he has for his wife will work over voip, but I said he will need some sort of battery backup if he decided to go for FTTP.


Up here, i have no idea what is going on, the signs that were in my road about roadworks, vanished on Tuesday and never been replaced, so I presume it was to warn people of roadworks in the road across the roundabout, Zzoomm seems to have vanished out of site of my house. I am going for a walk into town soon, so I may have a walk that way just to see.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

He said he is just going to ignore the emails, see what happens. The alarm system he has for his wife will work over voip, but I said he will need some sort of battery backup if he decided to go for FTTP.

Will need a battery backup even if still on FTTC once migrated off the PSTN and onto VoIP. This migration to All IP and VoIP is another natiowide programme and the PSTN network is being closed in 2025 with a stop sell in 2023. See https://landlinesgo.digital/ to prepare for this change

In reply to a post by cymru123:

Will need a battery backup even if still on FTTC once migrated off the PSTN and onto VoIP. This migration to All IP and VoIP is another natiowide programme and the PSTN network is being closed in 2025 with a stop sell in 2023. See https://landlinesgo.digital/ to prepare for this change

Yeah I realise that, not sure if he does, I have seen the link before and looked at it, but thanks anyway.