People turning back to cash

As the title says, it seems people are going back to cash according tothis BBC news thingy.

I try to use cash when I can, and I remember to take cash out. In the article it says people are putting cash in different jars for different things, just like I remember my Nan doing years ago, i kind of do that by via the bank, my bank offers what they call everyday savers.
i have one for my coffee, one for printer ink and one that I am using to save up for a computer update, when i decide to do it.
I have a saving card for iceland, so ii stick a few quid on there every month.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As the title says, it seems people are going back to cash according tothis BBC news thingy.

I try to use cash when I can, and I remember to take cash out. In the article it says people are putting cash in different jars for different things, just like I remember my Nan doing years ago, i kind of do that by via the bank, my bank offers what they call everyday savers.
i have one for my coffee, one for printer ink and one that I am using to save up for a computer update, when i decide to do it.
I have a saving card for iceland, so ii stick a few quid on there every month.

Was 'The Park' the target for this post?

Mostly use my phone now day to day stuff. Don't even carry cards anymore really. Cash I might use once a month, if that, for my Turkish barber! I don't know where I've lost my chequebook. Must be a few years since I wrote the last one. 😂

In reply to a post by dect:

Was 'The Park' the target for this post?

Yes, must be the heat, can it be moved?

I don't have a contactless card, well not my debit card anyway, the credit card is, but I don't take it out of the house. I refuse to have a contactless card. I have used the phone a few times, but buy the time I muck about with it, I may as well use my card or pay by cash.

I have a fitbit watch that I have used a couple of times, but it is not reliable to be honest, i also have to use a curve card as my bank don't support fitbit.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

can it be moved?

It's possible, but I think Seb is reluctant to do it because it can screw up database links or something... no harm in asking though.

I could start it again in the correct place.

The article is abit deceiving

That's up more than 20% from a year earlier.

Last year people were told to use card as much as possible due to covid so naturally as life returns to normal, so does using cash for those that prefer it

Alot of places are card only now as its just easier all round

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

The article is abit deceiving

That's up more than 20% from a year earlier.

Last year people were told to use card as much as possible due to covid so naturally as life returns to normal, so does using cash for those that prefer it

Alot of places are card only now as its just easier all round

but a bit rubbish for people who don't have a bank account or a card. if people want to pay by cash, then they should be allowed to.
I won't be dictated to about how to pay in shops.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

but a bit rubbish for people who don't have a bank account or a card. if people want to pay by cash, then they should be allowed to.
I won't be dictated to about how to pay in shops.

If shops, bars, etc, don't want to accept cash they don't have to. They won't be dictated to about how to sell in their premises.

Given the advent of starter accounts, direct payment of welfare and other things if a person has no bank account and just uses cash there's a pretty good chance that at very least they aren't paying tax on income. The tax the rest of us have to.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

if people want to pay by cash, then they should be allowed to.
I won't be dictated to about how to pay in shops.

That is not your call. Whether you use the shop or not is your call but the shop has every right to decide how it will or will not accept payment.

As a general rule, it is probably a better policy to know what you prefer (even if that is a desire to stay with a rose-tinted view of all that you think was better in the past) but not to be so dogmatic that you end up backed into a corner with the painters already doing the floorboards between you and the door.

MMM, Unless you want to lose cash, maybe best to keep using it, as it is under attack, ATM's and bank branches disappearing, small retailers having issues banking cash takings,

Not to mention the talk by GOVT of replacing cards and cash with CBDC https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/digital-cur...

it is not conspiracy any more,and they will make it programmable too, meaning they would be able to control the where you can spend your money, and on what goods and services less privacy also , now if they say also brought in a carbon credit system (type of social credit) and implanted a chip in your hand or digital tattoo to replace your phones they would have total control over everyone apart from those who lived outside the system away from the SMART cities that are being built in some countries

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 10-Aug-22 11:14:48)

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

If shops, bars, etc, don't want to accept cash they don't have to. They won't be dictated to about how to sell in their premises.

[q/]

Then they don't get my custom, and what happens when the card system goes down which can and do?

Given the advent of starter accounts, direct payment of welfare and other things if a person has no bank account and just uses cash there's a pretty good chance that at very least they aren't paying tax on income. The tax the rest of us have to.

I know of someone who don't have a card, they have a card to take money out and that is it, the only reason they have a bank account is that they have to for work. One of my brothers don't trust banks and never use his card.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

That is not your call. Whether you use the shop or not is your call but the shop has every right to decide how it will or will not accept payment.

I have walked out of a shop because they won't take cash.

As a general rule, it is probably a better policy to know what you prefer (even if that is a desire to stay with a rose-tinted view of all that you think was better in the past) but not to be so dogmatic that you end up backed into a corner with the painters already doing the floorboards between you and the door.

I prefer cash, I know where I am with cash, if I take cash out, i know I can only spend that much. But then i get people saying, if you use the scan and shop devices in some supermarkets, you can keep an eye on what you are spending with them. Two problems there, first I will never use one of them and secondly, most shops I go into don't have them. Aldi and Lidls don't even have self scans here.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have walked out of a shop because they won't take cash.

I've seen a few people hit this problem, in one case a bloke without his wallet tried to pay in a coffee shop and they wouldn't take his £10 or £20 notes, so the person behind took the cash and paid on their card. Insane!

In reply to a post by tommy45:

MMM, Unless you want to lose cash, maybe best to keep using it, as it is under attack, ATM's and bank branches disappearing, small retailers having issues banking cash takings,

Not to mention the talk by GOVT of replacing cards and cash with CBDC https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/digital-cur...

it is not conspiracy any more,and they will make it programmable too, meaning they would be able to control the where you can spend your money, and on what goods and services less privacy also , now if they say also brought in a carbon credit system (type of social credit) and implanted a chip in your hand or digital tattoo to replace your phones they would have total control over everyone apart from those who lived outside the system in the SMART cities that are being built in some countries

It is scary to think of to be honest, but yes I did hear they were looking at a digital currency, they still about as far with it as they were when I heard about it last year.,
you are right about cash machines, they are vanishing, which is wrong, cash have been around for years and people should not be forced to pay by cards if they don't want to.


What happens when the card system goes belly up, and we are all using digital payments? That happened to use in a pub a few weeks ago, ordered the drinks, my friend tried to pay using a card, and it failed, I was the only one that had cash, so i paid. Good job, I carry cash.

Maybe, this change of people going back to cash may keep this digital currency at bay for a while longe. They say they will keep cash going beside it. I think I will be long gone before cash vanishes.

Thanks for the link, i will have a good read later.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

you are right about cash machines, they are vanishing, which is wrong,

A friend of mine works for a supermarket chain, whom used to have 2 cash machines outside every store, and now has one. I asked my friend, they checked with management, and it was because of a 150% drop in the number of people taking cash out.

If we want cash to survive, we will all have to start using and forcing it on retailers that refuse

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Then they don't get my custom, and what happens when the card system goes down which can and do?

I know of someone who don't have a card, they have a card to take money out and that is it, the only reason they have a bank account is that they have to for work. One of my brothers don't trust banks and never use his card.

Card systems very seldom go down and it's a huge deal. They don't do any business while the systems are down.

As far as those people you mentioned go that's their call.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

MMM, Unless you want to lose cash, maybe best to keep using it, as it is under attack, ATM's and bank branches disappearing, small retailers having issues banking cash takings,

Not to mention the talk by GOVT of replacing cards and cash with CBDC https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/digital-cur...

it is not conspiracy any more,and they will make it programmable too, meaning they would be able to control the where you can spend your money, and on what goods and services less privacy also , now if they say also brought in a carbon credit system (type of social credit) and implanted a chip in your hand or digital tattoo to replace your phones they would have total control over everyone apart from those who lived outside the system in the SMART cities that are being built in some countries

It is scary to think of to be honest, but yes I did hear they were looking at a digital currency, they still about as far with it as they were when I heard about it last year.,
you are right about cash machines, they are vanishing, which is wrong, cash have been around for years and people should not be forced to pay by cards if they don't want to.


What happens when the card system goes belly up, and we are all using digital payments? That happened to use in a pub a few weeks ago, ordered the drinks, my friend tried to pay using a card, and it failed, I was the only one that had cash, so i paid. Good job, I carry cash.

Maybe, this change of people going back to cash may keep this digital currency at bay for a while longe. They say they will keep cash going beside it. I think I will be long gone before cash vanishes.

Thanks for the link, i will have a good read later.

You make a good point about the card payment system EPS in shops, Supermarkets in the event of a power cut are unable to operate even using cash, as they have stopped pricing products and opted for the barcode scanner, So during power cuts they have to close , shows how much they rely on tech without any backup , CONVENIENCE could be our downfall And this by tesco should never become normal>> tesco biometric payment plans

https://www.decisionmarketing.co.uk/news/face-off-te...

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 10-Aug-22 11:57:26)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

A friend of mine works for a supermarket chain, whom used to have 2 cash machines outside every store, and now has one. I asked my friend, they checked with management, and it was because of a 150% drop in the number of people taking cash out.

If we want cash to survive, we will all have to start using and forcing it on retailers that refuse

I work for a supermarket chain and yes the same thing have happened, we used to have two, now we have one, because of fewer people using them, but that may change. The problem is, a lot of people don't care, as long as it is easy for them. I said to a colleague who was using the scan and shop system, you do know you are taking jobs using that, her reply was she did not care. My reply was, maybe not unless it is yours. She said it is quicker and easier. I think they are a pain in the neck to be honest. Stopping to scan an item. I remember when we first had them, and we were told we were to use them because it will get customers using them if they see us using them. You can imagine what I said to the manager., it went something like, no chance, when I am clocked out, I can use what I like.
With a basket, they would be a pain.

I use cash if I remember to get some out and that is the problem.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Card systems very seldom go down and it's a huge deal. They don't do any business while the systems are down.

As far as those people you mentioned go that's their call.

But when the card systems do go down, it would be a right pain in the neck.
They have problems more than you realise., certainly with contactless, the amount of people I see fiddling to get their cards in the right place, Lidl's terminals don't have the sensor where you think it would be, it is on the side of the terminal.

The thing is if all we rely on is cards and that sort of thing to pay and other technology and it goes belly up, you are stuffed.

I see it at work when scan and shop goes belly up, these people have scanned all their shopping, go to pay, and then they have take all their shopping out to put it through a normal checkout.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

You make a good point about the card payment system EPS in shops, Supermarkets in the event of a power cut are unable to operate even using cash, as they have stopped pricing products and opted for the barcode scanner, So during power cuts they have to close , shows how much they rely on tech without any backup , CONVENIENCE could be our downfall And this by tesco should never become normal>> tesco biometric payment plans

https://www.decisionmarketing.co.uk/news/face-off-te...

I did not know about that, not that I shop in Tescos very often, may go in there about twice a year if I am in town as it is in the city centre and I don't go there very often.

, biometric recognition software – which allow authentication based on physical characteristics – could lead to shorter queues, be more hygienic than tapping in a pin, and is significantly less vulnerable to fraud.

It is all to do with saving or making even more money to boost their large profits even more, and also more spying and tracking.


Co-op experimented with fingerprints a few years ago, it did not come to anything, I suppose now the technology is better, but I would not do it, I would refuse, just like I refuse to have a loyalty card. They are a waste of time.
Another reason why I should a lot at aldi these days, no self checkouts and no loyalty cards.

Technology is fine, but it doesn't work without power, and the generators in stores are there mainly to keep the fridges and freezers going. We can't even unload a lorry if we have a power cut unless the lorry have a tail lift. Saying that one of the lifts is connected to the generator, but we are told only use it if we really have to as the generator screams , and it is very slow going up when the mains is off.

I noticed the chip shop I go to now and again have we accept cards on their Window now, but it is not very large, so easily missed, but I still pay by cash there.

i am going to have a walk to B&M/home bargains and food warehouse,, need a bit of exercise. no selfscans in any of them

And yet, the world doesn't end when it happens.

There will be a point in the not too distant future where there aren't many shops that handle cash. You might not like contactless payment, but it will be the only option at some point.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

, biometric recognition software – which allow authentication based on physical characteristics – could lead to shorter queues, be more hygienic than tapping in a pin, and is significantly less vulnerable to fraud.

This all exists already, if you have the right phone/device.

For example the iPhone can use either facial recognition (or finger print for older ones) to unlock the wallet on the phone which enables you to pay with contactless. Without authentication someone can't use your iPhone to pay for stuff.

And the same applies to the Apple Watch, though in that case the facial recognition happens on the iPhone, when you first unlock the watch when you put it on.

99% of my retail payments are done on my watch, secure and basically instant to do (double click the button on the watch, hold to the reader).

There are other phones/devices that work similarly for the Apple averse.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

There are other phones/devices that work similarly for the Apple averse.

And NatWest even trialling a plastic card (debit or credit, not sure) that had a fingerprint reader to confirm owner before it activated contactless feature.

Something like that would be good. I am painfully aware that though biometrically protected contactless on a phone is great, the minimum price for entry in the iPhone world is £419 for the iPhone SE (38 pence a day if you use it for three years and you can likely get an £80 trade in from Apple after three years if you look after it). There are no doubt cheaper options on the Android side.

Edited by andynormancx (Wed 10-Aug-22 14:22:20)

Countries like Sweden and Denmark are virtually 100% cashless and manage to run an ecomony

Personally im 100% cashless other than when i have to like some taxis

You can't force them to use cash. Just like you can't force them to serve you. Its their business

Its alot easier and cheaper for businesses to take card only payments (and small businesses need every little they can). Plus they wouldnt do it if people weren't willing to go paperless. Like it or not cash is dying

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Its alot easier and cheaper for businesses to take card only payments (and small businesses need every little they can). Plus they wouldnt do it if people weren't willing to go paperless. Like it or not cash is dying

Yes, I'm aware of the costs the banks charge businesses to deposit and handle cash have nearly doubled as the usage declines. This is I suspect the main reason smaller businesses (and most of the big brands we see are franchises, so actually small businesses) turning away cash. "autobanking" is cheaper the higher the volume, so if they can move everyone to card (debit/credit/prepay) then the shop knows the margin they are having to give the bank.

Even the self employed now have those devices that use a mobile phone for communication, so they can take cards, and Big Issue sales people.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have walked out of a shop because they won't take cash.

I've seen a few people hit this problem, in one case a bloke without his wallet tried to pay in a coffee shop and they wouldn't take his £10 or £20 notes, so the person behind took the cash and paid on their card. Insane!

It is crazy, what the hell is happening? i thought the government was going to step in to stop this.

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

This all exists already, if you have the right phone/device.

For example the iPhone can use either facial recognition (or finger print for older ones) to unlock the wallet on the phone which enables you to pay with contactless. Without authentication someone can't use your iPhone to pay for stuff.

And the same applies to the Apple Watch, though in that case the facial recognition happens on the iPhone, when you first unlock the watch when you put it on.

99% of my retail payments are done on my watch, secure and basically instant to do (double click the button on the watch, hold to the reader).

There are other phones/devices that work similarly for the Apple averse.

Depends on how Tesco do it, like will the data be on their servers, surly they can't do it via people's phones, a lot of people don't have smartphones.


oh yeah, I can pay using my phone, Google Pay or what ever Google is calling it now is set up on my phone, I have set up my fitbit watch to pay with, but i don't really use them.
I used my watch at the beer festival a couple of months ago, they would take cash, but preferred card, it was the first time i have known them to use cards. I think the so-called pandemic scared them. But people were still using cash. You buy vouchers and swap the vouchers for the beer.

I can use face ID on my phone, but it is not as good as Apple version i don't think, not that I use it, I use fingerprint to open the phone.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

And NatWest even trialling a plastic card (debit or credit, not sure) that had a fingerprint reader to confirm owner before it activated contactless feature.

I heard about this or something like it a few years ago. I may be more willing to have a contactless card if they done that.

Oh, I know it was a pinpad on the card that was being looked at, but by the time you muck about with that, you may as well use the keypad on the terminal.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Countries like Sweden and Denmark are virtually 100% cashless and manage to run an ecomony

Personally im 100% cashless other than when i have to like some taxis

Good for them, so is china, but China is doing it to track their citizens and to be honest I think this is the reason why we are moving to a cashless society

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I used my watch at the beer festival a couple of months ago, they would take cash, but preferred card, it was the first time i have known them to use cards. I think the so-called pandemic scared them.

A bit on the pandemic, but mostly the cost of banking all that cash, paying for a secure van & guard to move it to the bank, and the charges the bank make to the company account for processing it. These have all increased a stunning amount. If only 30% of customers were paying cash, its suddenly become uneconomic to accept.

I read that supermarkets want to stop doing cashback at the till, because so few are paying cash now they don’t have it in the till to give out.

Auto-tills where the customer does the work, these did take 20% of the till area in my super huge tesco near me, but now they’ve increased to about 50% of the till area, and of the other half, closed 30% of the old tills (now surrounded by 8ft signs) so there are only 20% left, and not all of those are open even on a sat lunchtime. With self-scan handsets the number of people at the self-pay tills is a very small queue, people get through fast.

People costs (wages) are one of the biggest costs in any business.

The BBC article also mentions that more and more cash is being deposited and withdrawn at post offices. It might be due to the fact that so many branches are being closed across the country?

Another thing is where I've looked at Lloyds Bank's new changes to T&Cs. They are saying: "We've added a new condition that says if it's necessary, due to economic circumstances that affect the banking industry, we may restrict the amount you can have in your accounts either by applying a limit or by imposing a charge. If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information."

Basically - no one (within reason, I hope you know what I mean?) can physically impose a limit or question an amount of money if someone hasn't gotten somewhere to track it, like a bank. It's getting absurd at this point and I think that people are just getting scared, especially with direct debits for energy going to 'magically increase' very soon with no way of turning back.

As humans, we are losing more and more control over ourselves, our lives and our money.

A complete aside Adrian. You keep misspelling ‘surely’ as surly.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

A bit on the pandemic, but mostly the cost of banking all that cash, paying for a secure van & guard to move it to the bank, and the charges the bank make to the company account for processing it. These have all increased a stunning amount. If only 30% of customers were paying cash, its suddenly become uneconomic to accept.

I read that supermarkets want to stop doing cashback at the till, because so few are paying cash now they don’t have it in the till to give out.

Auto-tills where the customer does the work, these did take 20% of the till area in my super huge tesco near me, but now they’ve increased to about 50% of the till area, and of the other half, closed 30% of the old tills (now surrounded by 8ft signs) so there are only 20% left, and not all of those are open even on a sat lunchtime. With self-scan handsets the number of people at the self-pay tills is a very small queue, people get through fast.

People costs (wages) are one of the biggest costs in any business.

I work in a supermarket, sure I work in the warehouse these days, but I see what is happening. I voice my opinions to managers fend or please, even about the scan and shop system that is in use. i am told that no one have lost their job due to it, not yet, no. But they are removing most of the manned checkouts in the next couple of months, leaving 4, a lot of the people on checkouts are on there because they can not do much else, so what happens to them?
It is all about making more profit for the shareholders and stuff us.

Our local Tesco still an express checkout, which shocked me as every other store I have been in have removed these.
Our Morrison's don't do cashback on their self scans, but then they never have, not that I use the self scans that often.

Selfscans may work well in places like London and Birmingham, large cities, but removing the normal checkouts here will just annoy more people. A colleague who works on the checkout said to me a few weeks ago, you can't force them, I said what the hell are you on about, he said customers, you can't force them to use self scans or scan and shop. They would rather wait in a queue.

We are not in London, we have a huge population of older people and they will not be forced.

When ever I go into Tescos, most of the handsets are still in the cradles, I presume they don't have a App for scan and shop like Sainsbury's do. I am shocked about the amount of people that use it in Sainsburys, but I think they were pushed when we had the pandemic, use a safer way to shop, use a handset with a load of germs on.

I will stick with manned checkouts for large shopping, at least I am doing my bit to try and save jobs,.

Its the fees but also many other reasons. Security is a big factor. Costs alot for a good safe and to have the contents insured. Also cashing up at the end of a night takes time. A friend used to accept cash before moving contactless only for her business because she could spend 40 mins in the bank queuing for money for the till

And for the few that paid cash ( before covid she was estimating only 20% did), it wasnt worth it

In reply to a post by jroj:

The BBC article also mentions that more and more cash is being deposited and withdrawn at post offices. It might be due to the fact that so many branches are being closed across the country?

Another thing is where I've looked at Lloyds Bank's new changes to T&Cs. They are saying: "We've added a new condition that says if it's necessary, due to economic circumstances that affect the banking industry, we may restrict the amount you can have in your accounts either by applying a limit or by imposing a charge. If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information."

Basically - no one (within reason, I hope you know what I mean?) can physically impose a limit or question an amount of money if someone hasn't gotten somewhere to track it, like a bank. It's getting absurd at this point and I think that people are just getting scared, especially with direct debits for energy going to 'magically increase' very soon with no way of turning back.

As humans, we are losing more and more control over ourselves, our lives and our money.

Yep, you are not wrong, we are getting pushed into more and more technology, and tracking and people are just accepting it.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

A complete aside Adrian. You keep misspelling ‘surely’ as surly.

You are correct, I must stop doing that.

Why would they? Having to take cash costs businesses more money than just contactless payments due to fees. Many businesses are already struggling they dont need silly legislation. There business there rules

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I think the so-called pandemic scared them

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Good for them, so is china, but China is doing it to track their citizens and to be honest I think this is the reason why we are moving to a cashless society

Comments like these can make you wonder about a person. Just saying. The UK's huge use of CCTV is far more sinister. We currently have some pretty good protections against tracking via GDPR but that'll be off the books soon.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

A colleague who works on the checkout said to me a few weeks ago, you can't force them, I said what the hell are you on about, he said customers, you can't force them to use self scans or scan and shop. They would rather wait in a queue.

We are not in London, we have a huge population of older people and they will not be forced.

Seems quite bizarre to me standing in a queue for the sake of being stubborn but whatever does it for them.

I'll continue to avoid queues where possible while they waste their time queuing out of a petulant desire to refuse modern convenience.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Thu 11-Aug-22 21:11:40)

In reply to a post by andynormancx:

And yet, the world doesn't end when it happens.

There will be a point in the not too distant future where there aren't many shops that handle cash. You might not like contactless payment, but it will be the only option at some point.

No, but your PRIVACY and rights diminish too , WHAT right does any private corp have to HOLD such data on any individual without their prior consent? I am told i live in a free western nation where democracy rules not commie CHINA

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 11-Aug-22 22:19:35)

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

You can't force them to use cash. Just like you can't force them to serve you. Its their business

Its alot easier and cheaper for businesses to take card only payments (and small businesses need every little they can). Plus they wouldnt do it if people weren't willing to go paperless. Like it or not cash is dying

But it wouldn't be so if the masses woke up

In reply to a post by tommy45:

I am tolds i live in a free western nation where democracy rules not CHINA

We do, so start a political party to "save cash" and see if you get votes.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Countries like Sweden and Denmark are virtually 100% cashless and manage to run an ecomony

Personally im 100% cashless other than when i have to like some taxis

both are NOT totally cashless at all

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Why would they? Having to take cash costs businesses more money than just contactless payments due to fees. Many businesses are already struggling they dont need silly legislation. There business there rules

FUNNY HOW THIS WASN'T AN ISSUE PRIOR TO SMART DEVICES, EH? Almost as if this was PLANNED, don't ya think?

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I think the so-called pandemic scared them

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Good for them, so is china, but China is doing it to track their citizens and to be honest I think this is the reason why we are moving to a cashless society

Comments like these can make you wonder about a person. Just saying. The UK's huge use of CCTV is far more sinister. We currently have some pretty good protections against tracking via GDPR but that'll be off the books soon.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

A colleague who works on the checkout said to me a few weeks ago, you can't force them, I said what the hell are you on about, he said customers, you can't force them to use self scans or scan and shop. They would rather wait in a queue.

We are not in London, we have a huge population of older people and they will not be forced.

Seems quite bizarre to me standing in a queue for the sake of being stubborn but whatever does it for them.

I'll continue to avoid queues where possible while they waste their time queuing out of a petulant desire to refuse modern convenience.

the #scamdemic was the catalyst, the nonsense of safer and faster card payments only checkouts conditioned the masses, i could go into detail but i'll be banned most likely

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

I am tolds i live in a free western nation where democracy rules not CHINA

We do, so start a political party to "save cash" and see if you get votes.

you're kidding me? There is no way the status quo GOVT of occupation would ever allow most of the grassroots opposition to ever become registered political parties 1such party did manage to achieve this FOR BRITAIN but there were not enough people who would stand as candidates or councillors So after 5 yrs The leader threw in the towel because unlike controlled opposition (Farage) she was solely funded by individual people not big business That is an example of how difficult it really is

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I think the so-called pandemic scared them

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Good for them, so is china, but China is doing it to track their citizens and to be honest I think this is the reason why we are moving to a cashless society

Comments like these can make you wonder about a person. Just saying. The UK's huge use of CCTV is far more sinister. We currently have some pretty good protections against tracking via GDPR but that'll be off the books soon.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

A colleague who works on the checkout said to me a few weeks ago, you can't force them, I said what the hell are you on about, he said customers, you can't force them to use self scans or scan and shop. They would rather wait in a queue.

We are not in London, we have a huge population of older people and they will not be forced.

Seems quite bizarre to me standing in a queue for the sake of being stubborn but whatever does it for them.

I'll continue to avoid queues where possible while they waste their time queuing out of a petulant desire to refuse modern convenience.

WAKEY WAKEY
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/automated...
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-informat...
Even the fake opposition say this
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/23/u...

In reply to a post by tommy45:

That is an example of how difficult it really is

Winning votes isn't easy, but UKIP won enough votes to force a referendum. Democracy isn't a walk in the park, but it's more effective than moaning on a forum.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

No, but your PRIVACY and rights diminish too , WHAT right does any private corp have to HOLD such data on any individual without their prior consent? I am told i live in a free western nation where democracy rules not commie CHINA

Given your certainty that governments are part of a conspiracy against the common citizen which does not happen in any other part of society I'm sure you have a sensible answer to how the Zuckerberg universe has conned billions of people into clicking the "I accept the terms and conditions" box so that any data or keystrokes of those gullible individuals can be accessed by a PRIVATE corporation in the future. Or is it a part of your conditioned mind-set that PRIVATE corporations which have more power and financial clout than most governments by definition would never use that data without due regard to a citizen's privacy. I do not have any social media accounts but it is probable that the main social media players have as much data about me as the government holds due to the lack of awareness of the average citizen.

The only sensible way to look at all this conspiracy malarkey and how it affects the man on the Clapham omnibus is to remember that it is a statistical fact that half of the population are stupider than the average.

Its always been an issue. Bank fees, security risks, wasted time cashing up etc has always been there but businesses absorbed the costs as most people paid cash.

Now its the other way and most pay card, so businesses can ditch cash and all the downsides. Yes smartphones make it easier to pay card but thats a relative new thing

Woke up to what? Some crazy conspiracy that the Government are tracking what supermarket you shop at as you spent on card and somehow using that against you?

Said virtually cashless. Ive beem to both and used card 100% of the time. Sweden does accept cash more readily but Copenhagen nowhere i went took it

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

You can't force them to use cash. Just like you can't force them to serve you. Its their business

Its alot easier and cheaper for businesses to take card only payments (and small businesses need every little they can). Plus they wouldnt do it if people weren't willing to go paperless. Like it or not cash is dying

Am I the only one who can't help thinking that this is all more than a tad ironic ... given that it wasn't really *that* long ago that some/most/all businesses refused to accept card payments or made a significant surcharge for very reluctantly taking them !

Any move away from cash and the dependence on cards and tech various is simply the inevitable result of Bank and Govt manipulation to archive whatever agenda it is that are looking to achieve. Much the same as encouraging if not forcing people to bank 'digitally' then using the drop in face to face branch business as the perfect excuse to close branches and dispose of staff.

No conspiracy theories per se, it's just all about the do$h ... but most definitely theirs and not yours

Edited by ambrougham (Fri 12-Aug-22 08:38:21)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

No, but your PRIVACY and rights diminish too , WHAT right does any private corp have to HOLD such data on any individual without their prior consent? I am told i live in a free western nation where democracy rules not commie CHINA

You're really going to lose your mind, again, when you see how much data Tesco and others hold on their loyalty card holders. Alongside of course that they consented to it.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

the #scamdemic was the catalyst, the nonsense of safer and faster card payments only checkouts conditioned the masses, i could go into detail but i'll be banned most likely

There are comments that make you wonder about people then there are comments that leave no doubt. You could go into detail however the sources would likely be as reliable as Infowars so perhaps best avoided. I'm sure we've all read quite enough about the WEF, WHO, Gates Foundation and the Great Reset for one lifetime.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Fri 12-Aug-22 11:07:13)

In reply to a post by ambrougham:

Any move away from cash and the dependence on cards and tech various is simply the inevitable result of Bank and Govt manipulation to archive whatever agenda it is that are looking to achieve. Much the same as encouraging if not forcing people to bank 'digitally' then using the drop in face to face branch business as the perfect excuse to close branches and dispose of staff.

No conspiracy theories per se, it's just all about the do$h ... but most definitely theirs and not yours

No cash = no jobs done 'for cash' avoiding tax. China's underground economy is massive, they are missing out on tons of tax so clamped down on crypto and are squeezing cash.

Private sector fewer staff required = more potential profit for retailers.
No cash = banks need fewer branches.

A bunch of things that used to be done in person aren't now. This is the way things are. Automation is a thing and is needed to ensure longer term competitiveness internationally. Global Britain and all that.

How the benefits of this are split and what's done to ensure it doesn't harm people are a very different story though.

I think people seem to forget that cash is nothing more than a promissory note from its issuing bank. You pay it into a private bank someone taps numbers on a keyboard and credits your account. The note itself has no more value than the numbers in your bank account besides who backs it.

Actual hard currency stopped being a thing when the UK left the gold standard. It's all promises to pay and numbers in a computer. Cash is in many respects a relic. I'm fine with it disappearing as long as appropriate regulations are in place to ensure our transactions aren't enriching Visa, Mastercard, AmEx and our banks and that financial data isn't misused. Keeping and building on GDPR would be a good start.

Post deleted by XGS_Is_On

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I think the so-called pandemic scared them

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Good for them, so is china, but China is doing it to track their citizens and to be honest I think this is the reason why we are moving to a cashless society

Comments like these can make you wonder about a person. Just saying. The UK's huge use of CCTV is far more sinister. We currently have some pretty good protections against tracking via GDPR but that'll be off the books soon.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

A colleague who works on the checkout said to me a few weeks ago, you can't force them, I said what the hell are you on about, he said customers, you can't force them to use self scans or scan and shop. They would rather wait in a queue.

We are not in London, we have a huge population of older people and they will not be forced.

Seems quite bizarre to me standing in a queue for the sake of being stubborn but whatever does it for them.

I'll continue to avoid queues where possible while they waste their time queuing out of a petulant desire to refuse modern convenience.

WAKEY WAKEY
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/automated...
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-informat...
Even the fake opposition say this
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/23/u...

Yes, I'm sure the older folks of Hereford are deeply concerned by facial recognition and, in supermarkets bristling with cameras, have surveyed them to find the places they can most easily avoid them.

Especially useful when at the till they take out their Clubcard to get their discounts and today's shop joins all the other data tied together by that discount scheme (older folks tend to use these schemes more).

Cameras are aimed at people when they go in, as they walk around and when they pay. To use them for facial recognition requires permission. Whether you're paying with cash at a regular till or using a self-checkout and a card there is plenty enough footage of you for use in facial recognition so I'm not sure what you're suggesting I wake

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Keeping and building on GDPR would be a good start.

+100. Even some US states are starting to draft laws that look like bits of GDPR, which is very interesting for the US.

In reply to a post by ambrougham:

Am I the only one who can't help thinking that this is all more than a tad ironic ... given that it wasn't really *that* long ago that some/most/all businesses refused to accept card payments or made a significant surcharge ....
...
No conspiracy theories per se, it's just all about the do$h ... but most definitely theirs and not yours

No you're not 🙂. Though in supermarkets and other big stores I do always use card even for just a bottle of milk. Usually a credit card which I pay off in full each month.

Our local paper shop/convenience store still prefers cash if the transaction is under £5. (£4 until last month). Partly so kids wanting just an ice cream or choccie bar can pay easily, and partly because the card companies have increased their charges to small retailers considerably recently.

In fact, and I have witnessed this frequently as when the owner is serving we chat a bit, the result if it's under £5 is an extra sale. They turn to the chocolate bar rack beside them and grab something to take it over. Or go and get a second bottle of whatever cold drink they were buying.

He pays in at the local Post Office.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Keeping and building on GDPR would be a good start.

+100. Even some US states are starting to draft laws that look like bits of GDPR, which is very interesting for the US.

GDPR is a good start, however as we move further into the information age we do need more robust privacy protection for sure. We also need more education for the public as to what is protected and what isn't.

Payment information should be in a silo, used purely for the transaction and no further details beyond which type of card and how many transactions, nothing more specific. Ever.

Facial recognition should never be permitted without active opt-in. Not just being somewhere or using a terminal but requiring a person to actively approve it. Yes, that means that facial recognition can't happen in public: what a shame.

Access to financial data should require court order and even then only be permitted for the most dire criminal reasons to protect life or property. Misusing access to it should be a criminal offence carrying mandatory prison time, not just fines.

Sadly it looks as though the direction of travel in the UK is in the opposite direction with bits of GDPR being ejected and access to our data being liberalised. Not a thing we can do about it until 2024.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

partly because the card companies have increased their charges to small retailers considerably recently.

Interesting, I know about card companies increasing UK to EU card charges post Brexit, but I didn't know internal transactions rates have increased as well.

I'm quoting what he said of course, but he is highly unlikely to be mistaken or fibbing to me.

There's nearly always only one staff member there. Him and several others on a rota. Till cashing up is done after closing (9pm) and there is a safe of course.

He's very savvy with the money side, plus years of experience as a manager with a major chain. He's built it up quickly from useless to busy and thriving. Examples, the previous owners didn't stock milk because it didn't sell. He sells loads. They had one sliced white loaf in the freezer because bread didn't sell either. He has three deliveries a week with a wide range of full and half loaves on the shelves.

Relevant to the topic. if he gets planning permission for some building work he intends to install an externally-available ATM. (He doesn't need permission for that but without the changes he wants to make there is nowhere to put it).

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

That is an example of how difficult it really is

Winning votes isn't easy, but UKIP won enough votes to force a referendum. Democracy isn't a walk in the park, but it's more effective than moaning on a forum.

UKIP could have worked at 1 point , but as it was financed by several big backers some of who have questionable associations & interests which together with EX Tory party infiltration ensured it was never elected for Govt, it was more of a Pressure relief valve, As for the Brexit referendum I think even Farage never expected leave to win and he abandoned the cause soon after leaving the tory dance champion maybot to undermine it

In reply to a post by tommy45:

UKIP could have worked at 1 point

Could have worked? We left the European Union. UKIP achieved its aim.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

Interesting, I know about card companies increasing UK to EU card charges post Brexit, but I didn't know internal transactions rates have increased as well.

Rates are heavily based on volume, which hit a lot of small traders due to the pandemic. At my local railway station, the tiny coffee shop has one of those Square/iZettle card readers for those that don't carry cash. Before the pandemic it was a cash only.

Square/iZettle are cheaper for smaller volumes, without the high monthly commitment of the traditional Point Of Sale terminal (e.g. the old Barclays PDQ things).

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Why would they? Having to take cash costs businesses more money than just contactless payments due to fees. Many businesses are already struggling they dont need silly legislation. There business there rules

Then if they lose customers, it is their own fault.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

Comments like these can make you wonder about a person. Just saying. The UK's huge use of CCTV is far more sinister. We currently have some pretty good protections against tracking via GDPR but that'll be off the books soon.

We have no idea what happens to the video CCTV captures and what process it goes through, even police in some places are using face recognition.
GDPR, LOL, even if it does protect people, which I doubt it does, it will not affect us soon as our government is dropping it.

Seems quite bizarre to me standing in a queue for the sake of being stubborn but whatever does it for them.

Up to them at the end of the day and with large shopping, self-checkouts are a total and complete waste of time, even the large ones with a belt on. Our local Morrisons had some, they lasted maybe 12 months if that, and now they are gone. If you have two people doing the shopping then maybe they are ok, one can put the shopping on the belt and the other can scan and put them in the bag.
I use self scans if I have a couple of items,, but if i have a trolly I will go through a normal checkout. Aldis, Lidls and food warehouse don't have any selfscans. Aldis have not long had a refit, Lidls expanded into a store next door not so long ago and Food warehouse is a brand-new store. i do wonder why they did not put self scans in them?

I will not use scan and shop either, the system where you go around with a handset, for a few reasons, one they take jobs, two you need a loyalty card and three for the amount of shopping I do they are not worth it.

Not stubborn, just their choice.

I'll continue to avoid queues where possible while they waste their time queuing out of a petulant desire to refuse modern convenience.

The more people that use self scans, the larger the queues, so you will get large queues there. I saw a line in Morrisons a few weeks ago that stretched for longer than any manned checkouts, i went onto a manned checkout and still got out fast.

I like to try and keep people in jobs, even if it is a naff job.

Point is they dont, as the cost of fees to deal with cash outweight the few customers they lose

Edited by bobble_bob (Fri 12-Aug-22 19:31:36)

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

You're really going to lose your mind, again, when you see how much data Tesco and others hold on their loyalty card holders. Alongside of course that they consented to it.

This is why I refuse to have loyalty cards these days.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

GDPR, LOL, even if it does protect people, which I doubt it does, it will not affect us soon as our government is dropping it.

The city of london (financial markets) is against this, it could cost the ability for the UK to do any business with the EU countries, and would be a huge mistake. That is something the electorate should be asked at a General Election.

For the country that almost invented data privacy law back in 1984 ... when most of the world had no idea what we were on about.

Now the Computer Misue Act 1990 is a different thing thing altogether and has problems for anyone doing IT Security research.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 12-Aug-22 19:32:25)

ETIAS is coming to us probably next year for travel to the Schengen area. AIUI the same technology is being introduced here from 2024 for visitors to the UK.

I do wish you hadn't posted this thread in Broadband Chatter. I know you didn't mean to but it is so disappointing when I am hoping to find some interesting broadband problem and it's all about cash or cards or whatever someone's screwed up political take on it is, I just don't want to know.

Perhaps the easy answer is I should just ignore the thread.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Fri 12-Aug-22 20:03:36)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

The city of london (financial markets) is against this, it could cost the ability for the UK to do any business with the EU countries, and would be a huge mistake. That is something the electorate should be asked at a General Election.

For the country that almost invented data privacy law back in 1984 ... when most of the world had no idea what we were on about.

Now the Computer Misue Act 1990 is a different thing thing altogether and has problems for anyone doing IT Security research.

By the time we have an election, it will be too late to do anything.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I do wish you hadn't posted this thread in Broadband Chatter. I know you didn't mean to but it is so disappointing when I am hoping to find some interesting broadband problem and it's all about cash or cards or whatever someone's screwed up political take on it is, I just don't want to know.

Perhaps the easy answer is I should just ignore the thread.

i know, sorry.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

ETIAS is coming to us probably next year for travel to the Schengen area. AIUI the same technology is being introduced here from 2024 for visitors to the UK.

Quite some jump from data protection to immigration, but the idea of course comes from the US and Australia that have had electronic immigration approvals for years.

I was thinking about GDPR which was mentioned, and the fact the EU will require fingerprint and facial biometrics from us soon just to travel to at least the Schengen area. (That'll upset some on this site ).

Total state surveillance really. AIUI China has a large proportion of its own population's facial bios on file. It'll come here before long for all of us, not just immigrants.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I was thinking about GDPR which was mentioned, and the fact the EU will require fingerprint and facial biometrics from us soon just to travel to at least the Schengen area. (That'll upset some on this site ).

Total state surveillance really. AIUI China has a large proportion of its own population's facial bios on file. It'll come here before long for all of us, not just immigrants.

I have no intention of going abroad, so it will bother me not.
As for coming here, maybe at some point, but I think it will be years, the Tories got rid of the last I.D card system that was set up, and I don't think Labour will try again if they get back in.

No doubt they will try and slip something in by the back door at some point, the digital I.D system may be the start of it.

In reply to a post by pluralist:

I was thinking about GDPR which was mentioned, and the fact the EU will require fingerprint and facial biometrics from us soon just to travel to at least the Schengen area. (That'll upset some on this site ).

The US has had this since the late 1990s, notably before the 9/11 event that changed a lot of their security thinking. Millions and millions of UK and EU citizens regularly travel to the US for holidays and work in the last 25 yeras. Go back to 2019 and look at the number of regular flights from Heathrow and Frankfurt for one idea of the volume.

Total state surveillance really. AIUI China has a large proportion of its own population's facial bios on file. It'll come here before long for all of us, not just immigrants.

I always assumed the border was fair game

My issue with ID cards was always the computer system behind them, and lack of legal requirements on the company supplying to ensure their staff (operator, database admin etc) couldn't look at the data directly. viz.... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have no intention of going abroad, so it will bother me not.
As for coming here, maybe at some point, but I think it will be years, the Tories got rid of the last I.D card system that was set up, and I don't think Labour will try again if they get back in. No doubt they will try and slip something in by the back door at some point, the digital I.D system may be the start of it.

If anything happens it will be on the border... for non citizens. The border is a strange place legally.

Don't see what all the fuss is about. Today's tech is wonderful, the world's info at a touch, order and pay for stuff online, access your Government records -- indeed for VAT etc you MUST go online -- and what would we do without social media?

True, the National Grid was warning last year and again last month that the grid is very near capacity, and we now find the solar panel farms don't work properly in hot weather, and the hydro system has had to reduce output because their reservoirs have dried up, the turbines are static because there's no wind in the current anticyclone, we've blown up those nasty power stations, and four years ago the Government refused to finance the vast Rough gas storage under the North Sea, saying that the market would take care of everything.

But hey, we're all connected. What could possibly go wrong?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

If anything happens it will be on the border... for non citizens. The border is a strange place legally.

I don't think anything will happen,

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Don't see what all the fuss is about. Today's tech is wonderful, the world's info at a touch, order and pay for stuff online, access your Government records -- indeed for VAT etc you MUST go online -- and what would we do without social media?

True, the National Grid was warning last year and again last month that the grid is very near capacity, and we now find the solar panel farms don't work properly in hot weather, and the hydro system has had to reduce output because their reservoirs have dried up, the turbines are static because there's no wind in the current anticyclone, we've blown up those nasty power stations, and four years ago the Government refused to finance the vast Rough gas storage under the North Sea, saying that the market would take care of everything.

But hey, we're all connected. What could possibly go wrong?

LOL.

The sad thing is, what can be used for good, can be used for bad and most of the time it is used for bad.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Don't see what all the fuss is about. Today's tech is wonderful, the world's info at a touch, order and pay for stuff online, access your Government records -- indeed for VAT etc you MUST go online -- and what would we do without social media?

The UK's electricity consumption has dropped nearly 20% since peak. Sure, though, it's all the fault of modern technology.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have no intention of going abroad, so it will bother me not.

Think it's fair to say you and I live on completely different worlds, which makes life more interesting.

I hope you come into a few quid and rethink.

Time to learn to read!