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I have only had Hyperoptic since December 2023 but I am very unhappy with the speeds that are all over the place. My parents place have rock solid speeds on Lightning Fibre and HO can't seem to decide what it is doing.
I require 1Gbit (or near enough upoad speed) as I upload a lot.
My options seem to be limited as shockingly it seems most ISPs don't offer FTTP. My post code is [removed by tbb].
I would appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks!
Edited by seb (Fri 10-May-24 03:04:38)
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Hi,
I have only had Hyperoptic since December 2023 but I am very unhappy with the speeds that are all over the place. My parents place have rock solid speeds on Lightning Fibre and HO can't seem to decide what it is doing.
I require 1Gbit (or near enough upoad speed) as I upload a lot.
My options seem to be limited as shockingly it seems most ISPs don't offer FTTP. My post code is [removed by tbb].
I have removed your postcode as it's unwise to post that publicly online. You can get Openreach FTTP I believe however with what you've said about upload, Hyperoptic really would be your best bet. Some users here may have suggestions on Openreach based providers.
Have you raised your problems with Hyperoptic? It sounds like it might be local congestion they should be able to resolve.
We can ask Hyperoptic for you if you'd like and you've already tried directly. I can't promise results but may be worth a try. If you'd like us to try, e-mail us your details to [email protected] and refer to this post (include your name, e-mail and full address).
Sebastien.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I'm with Lightspeed - 1GB up/download speed. Not sure if they cover your area but go to their website and enter your postcode.
I'm happy with their service.
- Tony Sutton
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Hmm, I looked into Hyperoptic and they seem to be deploying PON that has 10gbit upstream shared capacity, on the flip side since they focus on MDU's I would expect them to have higher than average take up as I suspect the MDUs they connected to the users have limited options.
Deffo take Seb up on his offer as I think this is one to raise with Hyperoptic.
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I would appreciate any suggestions.
If it's really important to you - i.e. you use it for work and you lose money by not having dependable upload performance - then get a dedicated leased line.
In London there are many choices, and a good reseller will be able to get quotes from all of them. As a ballpark, expect to pay £150-£300 per month, depending on which networks cover your area.
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I'm not sure if they still do it but Hyperoptic were known for having interesting capacity planning in the past.
However if you need a gigabit all the time for work the company should be paying. If anything below that isn't good enough, even a few hundred megabits, leased line would be best.
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If you are in London you can get Community Fibre up to 3Gbps symmetrical. Or other providers like G.Networks, The 4th Utility also have 1Gbps upload.
However, Openreach will not do 1Gbps upload speeds yet.
Btw, if you are using WiFi to connect you'll also be restricted. You can't get anywhere near 1Gbps using WiFi.
You need to try using an Ethernet cable to verify if the problem still persists.
A good quality Cat5e cable or better will do for 1Gbps upload and download. But for example, if you were to take a 3Gbps package then Cat5e will be limited to 1Gbps.
You need to look at the various Altnet providers and see if they are planned or have wayleave agreements. Also have you checked up with your neighbours to see what they are getting with their Hyperoptic service?
That way you can test to see if the fault is with your ONT/router and not the overall network in your particular premise.
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I'm not sure if they still do it but Hyperoptic were known for having interesting capacity planning in the past.
However if you need a gigabit all the time for work the company should be paying. If anything below that isn't good enough, even a few hundred megabits, leased line would be best.
Most altnets have business plans too. The real issue here is where the bottleneck is. If it's an uplink from a building then I'm not sure that would help. But there may be a solution asrounf the corner.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I would appreciate any suggestions.
If it's really important to you - i.e. you use it for work and you lose money by not having dependable upload performance - then get a dedicated leased line.
In London there are many choices, and a good reseller will be able to get quotes from all of them. As a ballpark, expect to pay £150-£300 per month, depending on which networks cover your area.
You may also struggle with leased lines if you live in a flat/leasehold property. Getting them in can be a hassle. Not saying impossible, but hassle.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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A good quality Cat5e cable or better will do for 1Gbps upload and download. But for example, if you were to take a 3Gbps package then Cat5e will be limited to 1Gbps.
Actually, Cat5e is certified for 2.5Gbps at 100 metres.
With a short patch cable then 10Gbps is almost certain to work, even if not guaranteed.
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Hi there. We're very sorry to see that you're having issues with the speeds. Can you send us a private message and we will be happy to check what's happening?
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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A good quality Cat5e cable or better will do for 1Gbps upload and download. But for example, if you were to take a 3Gbps package then Cat5e will be limited to 1Gbps.
Actually, Cat5e is certified for 2.5Gbps at 100 metres.
With a short patch cable then 10Gbps is almost certain to work, even if not guaranteed.
I've heard of this before. But there seems to be conflicting information on this on the web.
Another article here https://www.genuinemodules.com/can-cat5e-do-25-gbps_...
Cat5e cables are designed to support data transmission speeds of up to 1 Gbps (Gigabit per second) over a distance of 100 meters. However, it is important to note that Cat5e cables are not officially certified for speeds beyond 1 Gbps. I do not know if absolutely all Cat5e cables can achieve higher speeds. There are some lower quality and non certified cables that do vary in performance. 2.5Gbps will still be a limitation for Community Fibre 3Gbps as you lose that 500Mbps.
Nowadays, these cables are very cheap. You can get a Cat8 cable for only a few quid more than a Cat5e cable. Obviously it is overkill but it might be a good idea for the long term and clear any doubts about bandwidth limitation issues.
OP has to test with Ethernet cable if he hasn't already and if he has, he should try to swap cables and test again. They say for reliable and consistent performance it is better to use Cat6 or Cat6a cables due to better shielding and lower interference. At the end of the day it is all probably just marketing. But if there isn't much of a price difference then I'd always opt for the better quality cables just to clear all doubts.
If people use only WiFi they'll not achieve 1Gbps with any ISP due to its limitations. Then people blame the ISP for being poor when it is their WiFi that's the reason for not achieving anywhere near 900+Mbps. I've read these negative reviews on both Hyperoptic and Community Fibre on trustpilot. Then they get told that they need to use LAN cable. Many users switching from ADSL/FTTC to FTTP don't realise that their WiFi that gave them 80/20Mbps is no longer feasible for gigabit internet speeds.
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They can do 2.5, the reason is some articles stating different is that when cat5e originally came on the market 2.5 interfaces were not a widespread product.
2001 - cat 5e
2016 - 2.5gbase-t
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-T
I have some cat 6 here, and I regret buying it, very thick and rigid cable. Even after several years use still not straightened out trying to re-loop itself. Cat 8 surely would be worse. But maybe ok if used under floor or something, then can let it curl up how much it wants.
Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 14-May-24 11:36:23)
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I wasn't aware that Cat5e was this old! Yes, that makes sense that back then no one had 2.5 interfaces.
In future when we have 10Gbps residential packages then surely better comparisons on performance can be made.
In our case here we use Ethernet cables for all 3 computers and drilled small holes at the bottom of the floor in our bedroom and living room. That way we have a 15 meter cable that travels to enter one of the computers from the router from one of our bedroom.
In 2018 we bought JONIFUN Cat 7 Ethernet Cable 15m - Fastest Cat7 Flat Ethernet Patch Cables 10GB for £12.39 as we didn't have an extra Ethernet cable. We opted for the Cat7 flat and we had no problems bending the cable. Looks like these are more flexible and thinner than our other Cat5e cables and lay on the edges of our laminate flooring.
We didn't feel like it was a waste of money as price difference wasn't specially different, only a few pounds more. Plus in future we won't need to change cables again and this will be a hassle.
The Netgear WiFi USB adapter that was being used for one of the computers in the living room was frequently losing connection every few hours and needed re-plugging. Now I don't know if this was a fault of our adapter but ever since we started using the Ethernet cables our problem got resolved immediately.
The speeds were also a couple of megabits lower with WiFi even on ADSL. Instead of 12Mbps in speed test it was getting 8-10Mbps. Ethernet cable solved this problem and the intermittent drop outs.
Many users particularly tenants use laptops with WiFi instead of connecting a LAN cable from their routers to their laptops or desktop PCs. Because they know that they may need to leave their homes soon or live with other tenants of the same household. LAN cables can be a hassle for non permanent residents. That's why when they switch to FTTP they suffer speed related issues as they are unaware that plugging an Ethernet cable will solve their speed problems and connection drop outs.
In many speed test videos on Youtube you'll see how their WiFi speeds give them poorer results. Yesterday I was watching a video for Sky 500Mbps FTTP package where one of the users was getting only 110Mbps with his tablet WiFi but after testing with LAN cable he was getting closer to the 500Mbps test.
Unfortunately, many FTTP providers will be getting negative reviews simply due to customer unawareness of not using Ethernet cables and purely relying on WiFi.
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I do not know if absolutely all Cat5e cables can achieve higher speeds. There are some lower quality and non certified cables that do vary in performance.
Then they are not Cat5e, by definition. You can only call it "Cat5e" if it's certified to Cat5e standards.
2.5Gbps will still be a limitation for Community Fibre 3Gbps as you lose that 500Mbps.
Unless they provide you with the wrong ONT (which one person did report happening), or the router you connect to it only has a 2.5G ethernet WAN port, then the link will negotiate to 10Gbps. Simply plugging in a Cat5e cable will not reduce the speed. However if you try to run over a long length of this cable, errors will start to occur.
Nowadays, these cables are very cheap. You can get a Cat8 cable for only a few quid more than a Cat5e cable.
You don't want Cat8. It will probably work, but all that shielding is pointless and causes its own problems if not grounded properly. And it's only certified to 36 metres.
Cat7 isn't a standard at all. If you but that, what you are actually doing is paying *more* for an *inferior*, uncertified cable that is not guaranteed to work at all.
Please, anybody reading this, never buy anything that claims to be "Cat7" or "Cat8". It's usually fake junk anyway, marketed at people who don't know what they're buying.
You want Unshielded Twisted Pair (UTP): Cat5e, Cat6 or Cat6A.
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Perhaps you are right maybe if I bought a Cat6/A that would've been more than enough! I did not have an extra handy cable so decided to buy this Cat7 15 meter cable in 2018 for £12.39. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cat-Ethernet-Cable-15m-Comp...
I can't say about the authenticity of this other than the fact that it hasn't caused me any problems getting 80/20Mbps and no connection drops like a few negative reviews that claim to have. But will need further testing when getting gigabit broadband. The reviews are very positive 78% 5 stars and only 2% 1 star reviews out of over 16 thousand reviews.
Both Cat6A and Cat7 support 10Gbps except that Cat7 shows as 750MHz Bandwidth Frequency vs 500MHz for Cat6A. Maybe this is marketing gimmick.
Sure most of us only need Cat5e, Cat6 or Cat6A. I may have been naive to buy this Cat7 back then but it didn't feel much more expensive at that time.
As for Cat8 it claims to give 40Gbps support.
What would you say about the latest 25Gbps Vorboss package launch for businesses? Wouldn't they not need something like Cat8 cable otherwise they'll be limited to 10Gbps using the rest of the cables you recommend?
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As for Cat8 it claims to give 40Gbps support.
What would you say about the latest 25Gbps Vorboss package launch for businesses? Wouldn't they not need something like Cat8 cable otherwise they'll be limited to 10Gbps using the rest of the cables you recommend?
There are no copper network adapters above 10Gbit and probably never will be, the power consumption would be huge. Its already best to use DAC for short runs and fibre for longer ones on 10Gbit, as a long 10Gbit copper run can use up to 10W per port. This is why there are no 10Gbit USB adapters.
Fibre is also much easier to manage as its only as thick as speaker cable.
Edited by alexatkin (Thu 16-May-24 13:26:34)
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There are no copper network adapters above 10Gbit and probably never will be
Apparently, 25GbaseT over Cat8 *is* a thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_Gigabit_Ethernet
I've never seen it for sale, and I don't think I'm ever likely to see it.
For household ethernet wiring, Cat5e is still perfectly fine, and I suppose if you can get Cat6A installed for a similar price (and don't mind it being thicker, harder to bend and terminate) then you might as well. But there's definitely no point in Cat7 or Cat8. If you're determined to "future-proof" your house then install single-mode fibre instead. (But how are you going to power your wireless access points?)
Aside: at faster speeds, the module connectors in switches and routers are:
* SFP+ (10G)
* SFP28 (25G)
* QSFP (40G)
* QSFP28 (100G)
You *can* get direct attach cables that plug straight into the socket, for very short distances (a few metres) - e.g. between a router and an adjacent switch or server. But you might as well just use fibre modules and be done with it. They're usually cheaper too.
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For household ethernet wiring, Cat5e is still perfectly fine, and I suppose if you can get Cat6A installed for a similar price (and don't mind it being thicker, harder to bend and terminate) then you might as well. But there's definitely no point in Cat7 or Cat8. If you're determined to "future-proof" your house then install single-mode fibre instead. (But how are you going to power your wireless access points?)
If you want to future-proof run ducting 
I went for Cat5e across most runs with a couple SMF. For a small house it's still fine for 10GBase-T
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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There are no copper network adapters above 10Gbit and probably never will be
Apparently, 25GbaseT over Cat8 *is* a thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_Gigabit_Ethernet
I've never seen it for sale, and I don't think I'm ever likely to see it.
It's like 40Gbps Ethernet over Cat8, only certified for use in data centres with point to point links of up to 30m. Nobody ever marketed a product that used it as far as I can tell and I can't imagine it is going to be any different for 25Gbps Ethernet over Cat8 which has the same data centre only 30m max use. We basically use DAC cables or if they don't reach optical. The power savings for DAC over optical are alone worth it and they are still significantly cheaper.
Anything above 25Gbps the optics are either horribly expensive or you require expensive MTP patch cables which are also expensive. A 1m MTP cable is £48 from fs.com and two 100Gbps multimode transceivers are £222. If I wanted to use a bog standard LC-LC fibre optic cable the transceivers would be £212 *each*, and bizarrely single mode is cheaper. I think because they are on four wavelengths while the multimode is a single wavelength, they are £380 each!!!
On the other hand a 1m 100Gbps DAC cable is £36. Got a dozen 100Gbps links, you can bet your bottom dollar every link that I can do with DAC is done with DAC.
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No it's no 10GBaseT is not certified for use on Cat5e cable period. You might get away using a very short patch lead but trying to use it in structured cabling is as daft as a brush.
In a domestic environment you could use Cat6 which *is* certified for 10GBaseT for up to 55m and provided it is not bundled.
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In 2018 we bought JONIFUN Cat 7 Ethernet Cable 15m - Fastest Cat7 Flat Ethernet Patch Cables 10GB for £12.39 as we didn't have an extra Ethernet cable. We opted for the Cat7 flat and we had no problems bending the cable. Looks like these are more flexible and thinner than our other Cat5e cables and lay on the edges of our laminate flooring.
We didn't feel like it was a waste of money as price difference wasn't specially different, only a few pounds more. Plus in future we won't need to change cables again and this will be a hassle.
Technically Cat7 and Cat8 cable are a bundle of four minature Twinax cables which is electrically very different from the balanced pairs of Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 Cat6a that went before it. If this is not properly terminated at each end using CG45 or Terra connectors then you will get electrical reflections that could cause problems, especially at longer distances and higher speeds.
Basically at 1Gbps and 15m you are getting away with it, but try 10Gbps and it is likely not to work.
Note that zero equipment available for sale has CG45 or Terra connectors and even the supposedly Cat7 and Cat8 cables you buy does not, so technically it a trading standards issue as the cables are not compliant with the claimed standard, you *have* to use either CG45 or Terra connectors for the cable to be compliant.
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Technically Cat7 and Cat8 cable are a bundle of four minature Twinax cables which is electrically very different from the balanced pairs of Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6 Cat6a that went before it. If this is not properly terminated at each end using CG45 or Terra connectors then you will get electrical reflections that could cause problems, especially at longer distances and higher speeds.
Basically at 1Gbps and 15m you are getting away with it, but try 10Gbps and it is likely not to work.
Note that zero equipment available for sale has CG45 or Terra connectors and even the supposedly Cat7 and Cat8 cables you buy does not, so technically it a trading standards issue as the cables are not compliant with the claimed standard, you *have* to use either CG45 or Terra connectors for the cable to be compliant.
Do you mean GG45 connectors?
10 Gbps works fine with regular RJ45 connectors and not great cable over home distances. Even with the microreflections and crosstalk 10-20m is short enough that it doesn't matter. At those distances failure to achieve 10G is a fault, not expected behaviour.
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No it's no 10GBaseT is not certified for use on Cat5e cable period. You might get away using a very short patch lead but trying to use it in structured cabling is as daft as a brush.
In a domestic environment you could use Cat6 which *is* certified for 10GBaseT for up to 55m and provided it is not bundled.
Textbook versus reality. Runs fine nearly all the time.
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I had it in my head 30 metres (which all my runs are less than) was ok for Cat5e on 10GBase-T
https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/10gbaset-can-thi...
100m on Cat6a and Cat7 cable types
55m on Cat6 cable which is already deployed in many data centres
45m on Cat5e, the most commonly installed UTP cable types
Admittedly others don't include it so you're probably right it's not guaranteed.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Anything above 25Gbps the optics are either horribly expensive or you require expensive MTP patch cables which are also expensive. A 1m MTP cable is £48 from fs.com and two 100Gbps multimode transceivers are £222. If I wanted to use a bog standard LC-LC fibre optic cable the transceivers would be £212 *each*, and bizarrely single mode is cheaper. I think because they are on four wavelengths while the multimode is a single wavelength, they are £380 each!!!
On the other hand a 1m 100Gbps DAC cable is £36. Got a dozen 100Gbps links, you can bet your bottom dollar every link that I can do with DAC is done with DAC.
Tell me about it. We run 100G between buildings in datacentres 
You can get 100G QSFP28 optics for much less if you go multimode. Single lamda optics are more flexible if you need to put them in waves. We still pay less than the above
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Unfortunately, without actually having real life experience using 10Gbps I'll not know how much I'll get using any of the cables I have.
Something else to bear in mind apart from the cable we must not forget the hard drive and network card. You need a motherboard that supports 10Gbps or upgrade to a 10Gtek® 10Gb PCI-E NIC Network Card.
Unfortunately, most motherboards even amongst the best only give 2.5Gbps. I was looking at various motherboards to upgrade my PC and noticed how only a few even had 2.5G LAN.
The 10Gbps LAN motherboards can be found https://www.gigabyte.com/sg/Motherboard/10GbE-LAN
They cost a whopping £1200 more expensive than a high end gaming PC! Ok, I found the cheapest one Gigabyte Z690 AORUS MASTER £464.99
Still you might be better off getting a cheaper motherboard and separately buy a 10GbE LAN card.
Conventional hard drives can also be a bottleneck and might not even give full 1Gbps! Here's what I found out.
A typical 7200 RPM HDD will deliver a read/write speed of 80-160MB/s. 80Megabytes=0.64Gbps.
So if you were to use a traditional hard drive in speed test you'll be limited to as low as 640Mbps. Solution? Needs upgrading to Solid State Drive and reinstalling Windows or any other OS on it. Where as a typical 2.5' Sata SSD will be 560MB/s, which in gigabit 560MB/s is 4.48 Gigabits.
To harness 10Gbps or more you need the latest SSD M.2 but only motherboards with SSD M.2 slot will allow such installation. Along with 10GbE LAN support or network card and the cable that comes last!
This is why Community Fibre limit to 3Gbps because most customers simply don't have the required hardware to run it.
Because the hard drive has a write/read speed limitation broadband speeds have to be capped at a certain speed or you won't achieve them due to this bottleneck. 4.48Gbps is the most realistic FTTP speed package expectation for the mainstream market. But not many people know that they need high end PCs. It is also the CPU processor that needs upgrading.
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I had it in my head 30 metres (which all my runs are less than) was ok for Cat5e on 10GBase-T
Depends what you mean by "ok". Will it work on, say, a 2m patch cord? Very likely. But then again, over short enough distances you could probably just use damp string.
Is it designed or certified to work? No. The 10GbaseT standard specifies Cat6 or Cat6A.
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Something else to bear in mind apart from the cable we must not forget the hard drive and network card. You need a motherboard that supports 10Gbps or upgrade to a 10Gtek® 10Gb PCI-E NIC Network Card.
My 2021 desktop PC with 12th Gen Core i7, has no spinning rust drives. I have two 1TB SSDs which are both individually capable of 8 Gigabit/sec speeds (read and write). No issue doing that performance. A £68 add-on PCIexpress card can give 10GigE port, and all I need is a 10GigE switch. My Synology NAS already has the expansion card supporting 1/2.5/10GigE over copper. Its not “free in the box” as 2.5 GigE is today on desktops, but it won’t be much longer.
Those whom encrypt their drives in desktops are likely to get lower speeds.
(Apple users, the Mac Mini and the Mac Studio are available with 10GigE built in from Apple).
I haven’t a clue about USB4 / Thunderbolt 4 adaptors for laptops.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Pretty much yeah, a few of us have touched upon this problem, that 2.5gigabit has failed to become mainstream in the same way that gigabit did. Its still locked into high end with 10 gigabit still seen as non consumer. This is why we struggling to see consumer routers with a full set of 2.5 gig ports, so it remains prohibitively expensive.
On my LAN my firewall/router is a full set of i226 so fully 2.5gbit. My ONT is 2.5gbit. My main switch has one 2.5gbit port (this one linked to firewall) and 4 gigabit ports, and my PC has a onboard 2.5gbit port. rest of LAN is all gigabit. In practice this means my firewall is in and out both 2.5gbit links to ONT and main switch, routing my internet, but everything else is connected on 1gbit links. If i was to upgrade to a multi gig package, it does at least mean though I will be able to utilise it, just not all to one device. Probably how I would want it to be honest, it would act as a means of QoS.
Interestingly, if I go over about 30-40% utilisation on my PC sending data (at 1gbit link on realtek 2.5gbit NIC) I get an extra 5-15ms of latency (LAN latency) as well as much higher CPU usage, it has horrific behaviour in that regard, but none of my native Intel gigabit ports behave in that way. Had been considering sticking a i350 or something in here to use until I am full 2.5gbit LAN until I seen the cost.
Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 23-May-24 15:05:44)
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Interestingly, if I go over about 30-40% utilisation on my PC sending data (at 1gbit link on realtek 2.5gbit NIC) I get an extra 5-15ms of latency (LAN latency) as well as much higher CPU usage,
Are your drivers up to date? I was getting low upload speed and thought my drivers were up to date but turns out the motherboard manufacturer doesn't offer the latest drivers on their website. Had to go to the NIC manufacturer website to get them instead then the issue was solved. https://www.realtek.com/Download/List?cate_id=584
EE are trialing a new router which has all 2.5G ports, hopefully will encorage router makers to do the same.
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I get full throughput, just it affects the latency, and yes on newest drivers.
It is just a rubbish low cost onboard implementation.
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I would not use any equipment that has Realtek NICs. They are generally low budget and this behaviour is one of the reasons.
Intel 225/226 ideally which even the budget Aliexpress specials use so there is no excuse cost wise to use anything else.
OPNSense on Topton N100 - SWISH Fibre 900
NextDNS (subscription) - Unifi for Wifi
My Broadband PingEdited by smouty (Tue 28-May-24 22:20:00)
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I would use any equipment that has Realtek NICs
I would *not* use any equipment that has Realtek NICs?
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Oops. I have edited to correct.
OPNSense on Topton N100 - SWISH Fibre 900
NextDNS (subscription) - Unifi for Wifi
My Broadband PingEdited by smouty (Tue 28-May-24 22:21:04)
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