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From The Times Today:
"Openreach is reaching about a million new premises every quarter and is targeting 25 million by the end of 2026"
However, it does not say how many of those premises actually sign up for FTTP when it becomes available
Michael
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However, it does not say how many of those premises actually sign up for FTTP when it becomes available.
Exactly, it seems all the network operators, Openreach, VirginMedia/nexFibre, and CityFibre are not that public in how much take up there is. Similarly Openreach didn't tell us how many people took VDSL (FTTC) versus ADSL.
As private companies with shareholders, some info MAY be in the shareholder reports, but otherwise we have to see if the Thinkbroadband crew publish any news stories.
In 2024 many people are happy with 50 Mbps via FTTC/VDSL for anywhere from £19 to £30 a month, and so don't go looking. Others are paying the same for 200 Mbps, or even 900 Mbps.
Free market and postcode lottery.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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It was something like 34% when last reported
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The take-up rates are published regularly in the BT financial statements. Currently about 34%
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The take-up rates are published regularly in the BT financial statements. Currently about 34%
So, 66% are not bothered about higher speeds?
Michael
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If that’s how you read a take up figure then the counter is that 34% of people care about their broadband speeds enough to notice when FTTP has been deployed and sign up to a service. The reality is probably a lot more boring, such as contracts came up for renewal or providers were being changed and that was seen as a chance by ISPs to move to FTTP to take advantage of various incentives offered by Openreach.
Not everybody on a street will be an Openreach customer either, I know people who have spent their entire adult lives being a customer of only Virgin Media or NTL before that.
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The take-up rates are published regularly in the BT financial statements. Currently about 34% Useful, but one out of three wholesale networks. I know in my area the number of VM coax cables entering buildings is around 85% of properties. No idea if they still are in use of course.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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My Great Aunt was surprised when an Openreach engineer turned-up for her provider switch, because it had never happened before.
She has basic 40Mbps and switches at the end of every contract to get the best deal, but now some providers default to FTTP regardless of speed.
She didn’t even know she’d been moved to FTTP until I explained it.
I expect this is how the adoption rates will increase. Not because it’s better, but because it becomes the default.
-==-
DougM
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Chances are the cable company that built the network did so around 30 years ago , so 85% of addresses, giving that network a try in those intervening 30 years isn’t surprising .
Just my opinion, but I recently was in an area ( not a particularly affluent one ) , that VM ( as evidenced by the termination blocks on nearly every house wall ) that must have had a very high rate of connection ( live or redundant ) , this area also had Netomnia available and lots of addresses had taken their services, and probably no exaggeration to state every single address that had a Netomnia CSP ( or whatever they call their splice point ) also had a Virgin block , so likely that it was probably Virgin that was the ‘loser’ for those Netomnia ‘wins’ , not Openreach.
As far as sign up rates , OR run at about 30-33% , City Fibre ( last figure I saw ) was around 10%.
Edited by Iniltous (Fri 23-Aug-24 08:24:36)
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Not because it’s better, but because it becomes the default. As long as the individual is staying with the same ISP, it is up to the ISP to choose a network provider. See recent News, that Sky Broadband (a very large ISP) is going to be available via either Openreach of Cityfibre networks.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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As far as sign up rates , OR run at about 30-33% , City Fibre ( last figure I saw ) was around 10%.
Agreed on cable, the old coax areas are old. I wonder if the CityFibre numbers will increase now big operators such as Sky are going to use them. Openreach could end up with duplicate infrastructure and less customers, and perhaps having only the majority in rural areas.
Next 5 to 10 years will be interesting, as VM also plan to replace all the coax with FTTP.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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As I stated , personally I think VM are more exposed to customers switching to Alt Nets than Openreach , price sensitive customers with a choice of VM or OR likely are already with VM .
Sky using CF is good for Sky , and on first impressions bad for BT Group, especially from the overblown negative impact on the share price, but no where does this announcement say CF are the preferred network for Sky , ( as with Vodafone ) in fact Sky apparently see it as a way to expand into areas not covered by OR FTTP not as a replacement of OR .
…..OR are restricted from lowering prices by the regulator , if a big player like Sky are available on CF , the regulator can hardly use lack of competition in the wholesale market as a reason to continue to hamstring OR , I suspect this will prove to be another case of be careful what you wish for , no doubt CF ( already a financial basket case ) will need to offer Sky a ‘killer’ deal , breaking even on every wholesale Sky customer is hardly likely to improve their bottom line, the next OR Equinox deal will further damage CF bottom line as they reduce their own prices to stay competitive if the next OR wholesale price is reduced further .
Your suggestion that CF replaces OR as the major player, and OR become the minor one , and only relevant in areas not covered by CF is errant nonsense, even CF are not suggesting that
Edited by Iniltous (Fri 23-Aug-24 12:19:56)
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Agreed on cable, the old coax areas are old.
All Telford on old coax cable from VM. They have no plan to changed it.
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Take-up is notoriously difficult to get stats on beyond what providers tell you and let's just say we know providers' availability stats are rather optimistic to put it mildly.
If someone is happy with an FTTC or even ADSL service I can see why they woulnd't care about FTTP coming. Yes new provides should be on FTTP irrespective of what speed you want in most cases. It's not necessarily cheaper for a provider to provide a legacy service than a new full fibre one (in fact may be opposite).
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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All Telford on old coax cable from VM. They have no plan to changed it.
Sorry but VM have announced the entire country that has coax cable will be upgraded to FTTP, by 2030.
Not much wrong with the coax, still manages gigabit download, and in the US they're going much faster over coax with DOCSIS 4.0
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/07/virgin...
https://www.telecomstechnews.com/news/virgin-media-w...
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Take-up is notoriously difficult to get stats on beyond what providers tell you and let's just say we know providers' availability stats are rather optimistic to put it mildly. Not surprised, all the companies will want to treat the information as internally confidential.
If someone is happy with an FTTC or even ADSL service I can see why they woulnd't care about FTTP coming. Yes new provides should be on FTTP irrespective of what speed you want in most cases. It's not necessarily cheaper for a provider to provide a legacy service than a new full fibre one (in fact may be opposite). That makes sense if you're on the same network, but some ISPs may want to move you to a different network (e.g. Openreach FTTC to CityFibre FTTP) where the build is available.
I suspect the "cherry" areas are now nearing completion and the more complex and costly areas to come, with many MDU's being skipped by CF or alt-nets, and with OR not yet having approached the building owners, its going to be interesting to see if the growth stalls at some point.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you 
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you I wonder how much percentage of urban and rural UK will have more than one wholesale operator.... perhaps when VM start to wholesale the DOCSIS network things will get ... interesting (or cut-throat!).
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Yeah I can see how ISPs may want to move you I wonder how much percentage of urban and rural UK will have more than one wholesale operator.... perhaps when VM start to wholesale the DOCSIS network things will get ... interesting (or cut-throat!).
Urban will probably be quite significant. Rural will depend on the extend of overbuild vs consolidation:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/assets/factsheet/broa...
Check page 11 on overbuild.. Already 22% have this (across UK as a whole).. We haven't published the splits..
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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From The Times Today:
"Openreach is reaching about a million new premises every quarter and is targeting 25 million by the end of 2026"
However, it does not say how many of those premises actually sign up for FTTP when it becomes available
A lot of people change when they change/renew contracts, as a lot of providers give them very little choice or makes it more expensive to stay on FTTP.
As some people on here know, that is what happened to me, being on Plusnet FTTC for over 9 years and was fine with that, had no need to go fro anything faster and certainly had no interest in FTTP. Came to the end of the contract, Plusnet pushing FTTP, would not give me a decent offer for FTTC and then wanted me to sign up for 24 months. Started to look around for another FTTC provider, but found that most were pushing me to FTTP. Zzoomm sent me a offer of 500Mb.s FTTP for £24 a month for 12 months, so I thought if I was being pushed to FTTP, I may as well get of Openreach and go for a better network.
I find that is happening a lot with people I chat to, they have no interest in FTTP as what they have does what they need, but their providers are pushing them to FTTP and once they do get on there they get emails upselling. Not everyone need super-duper speed and fine with even 36Mb/s.
The only advantage I find with the faster speed is when I download software or much about with Linux distros. I did find it useful last week when at my partner's place, I wanted to get some files from my NAS, 500Mb/s upload helped with that, but then she has FTTP as well.
The problem for a lot of people is the 24 month contract they are pushed into, but that happens with FTTC and FTTH, need to be stopped and go back to at least 18 months and that is too much.
I would still be using Plusnet FTTC if they did not try to push me to FTTP, if Zzoomm was not here i would have gone for something like Now FTTC.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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Why do you always do this? you speak to a couple of people in your small bubble then quote that as the opinion of the majority of people in this country. Life is bigger than your bubble and opinions are more complicated than a single view.
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I find that is happening a lot with people I chat to, they have no interest in FTTP as what they have does what they need, but their providers are pushing them to FTTP and once they do get on there they get emails upselling. Not everyone need super-duper speed and fine with even 36Mb/s.
They should have the option of staying on the same speed (or close to) for similar price, even if the technology moves from FTTC/VDSL to FTTP assuming same wholesale network partner. All bets are off if you move from an Openreach using ISP (such as Plusnet) to another wholesale network (e.g. CF/nexfibre) or an integrated alt-net such as your Zzooom.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Urban will probably be quite significant. Rural will depend on the extend of overbuild vs consolidation:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/assets/factsheet/broa...
Check page 11 on overbuild.. Already 22% have this (across UK as a whole).. We haven't published the splits.. Thanks for this, will watch with interest.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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It because many ISPs will try push everyones into FTTP from ADSL/VDSL/GFAST because the techicial support will be lesser as everything will be near perfect on FTTP failure as there is no DLM on it. So, no ones will not be moaning anymore over slow speed, DLM trigger, distance issues, copper line issues etc.
Edited by adslmax (Sat 24-Aug-24 12:07:04)
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It's very convenient how Adrian always speaks to people just that week about broadband-related topics that seem to support his position. I work in the industry and I don't talk to people about internet connections outside of work at all.
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Why do you always do this? you speak to a couple of people in your small bubble then quote that as the opinion of the majority of people in this country. Life is bigger than your bubble and opinions are more complicated than a single view.
More than a couple of people. The majority of people really don't care how their broadband is delivered to them as long as they can do what they need, they would not care if it was delivered via a wet Piece of string.
It is just the Internet and network providers trying to push people onto faster broadband.
Why would then majority of people need anything super-duper fast? Streaming, no need for superfast broadband for that, even gaming don't need super-duper speed for that, gaming is more about ping. People who download a lot may need faster broadband, I must admit, when i used to download a lot of files i thought it would have been useful
Content creators may find it useful, more so upload speed than download, something Openreach have always been useless with. If there is a lot of people in the house, a faster speed may be useful.
But the majority of people need it, don't require it, and it is just sales talk and providers pushing people into it, agree or disagree, that is what it is. FTTP is cheaper to keep going, so Openrerach is pushing ISPs into pushing FTTP to customers and a lot of these ISPs are telling people they need this super-duper speed and people are saying oh yes, you are right, we do need it and then find out they don't.
People are normally changing because they have no choice, you only have to look down my street and see that the majority of houses don't have FTTP, yet. Manipulation and brainwashing, that what companies do, all companies. Just like our government trying to push people into getting smart meters and supermarkets with Loyalty cards.
You are manipulated your self, which is why just say yes, I will do it.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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They should have the option of staying on the same speed (or close to) for similar price, even if the technology moves from FTTC/VDSL to FTTP assuming same wholesale network partner. All bets are off if you move from an Openreach using ISP (such as Plusnet) to another wholesale network (e.g. CF/nexfibre) or an integrated alt-net such as your Zzooom.
They do have the option, but then as said before I changed to FTTP, what the point in going through the hassle just to stay at the same speed? I got people on here, saying FTTP is more reliable the FTTC, that it may be, but FTTC is pretty reliable for most people. ADSL may not be, but FTTC is.
as i said before, i changed because Plusnet was pushing me to FTTP, if Zzoomm was not available I would have changed to another FTTC provider if Plusnet did not offer me a good deal. I had no interest in changing to FTTP, had no need for it and still don't
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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It because many ISPs will try push everyones into FTTP from ADSL/VDSL/GFAST because the techicial support will be lesser as everything will be near perfect on FTTP failure as there is no DLM on it. So, no ones will not be moaning anymore over slow speed, DLM trigger, distance issues, copper line issues etc.
they are pushing it for money, it is newer technology, the old technology is getting more difficult to keep going, you really don't think they are doing it for our benefit?
DLM was not a real problem for me.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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DLM was not a real problem for me.
Well lucky you then. Just because you didn't have a problem, don't assume that it's fine for everyone else.
Many people live a long way from a cabinet, and DLM sucks really badly for them.
FTTP is better because it's more reliable. Yes, Openreach is pumping a large amount of money into it - yes it's for commercial reasons, but it's not really about profit (if it was, they would have done it years ago). It's to prevent themselves from disappearing into irrelevance, with other newer networks being built.
But given that FTTP is being built, it makes no sense at all to be running a legacy copper network in parallel forever. It's perfectly reasonable IMO to expect people, gradually, to move across (as it becomes available, and as contracts come up for renewal). And it *does* ultimately benefit the consumer, to get a far more reliable network at a broadly similar price.
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Lucky you have the choice. No sign of FTTP in my parents neighbourhood, and FTTC/VDSL is “DIG” so no ducts to the houses. After 9th OR call-out my family have moved to Virgin Media cable ; coax but it works. Neighbourhood built 1970 to 1972 and no telegraph poles in most of town, everything underground.
Town is 130,000 people and CityFibre has some areas built but appears to have slowed.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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Why do you always do this? you speak to a couple of people in your small bubble then quote that as the opinion of the majority of people in this country. Life is bigger than your bubble and opinions are more complicated than a single view. It's not just his acquaintances, it's mine as well. It's also evidenced by the market over the years. There was even a TBB news article about it several years ago saying that the UK could be close to the top of the speed tables if everyone took the best speed package available to them. Then there are the several times when VM has shut lower tier packages and forcibly moved customers onto faster packages (at no cost).
Most people do not care about the technology involved. Most people do not (currently) need speeds beyond what FTTC can provide. A lot of people could probably still manage on a decent ADSL connection.
There is nothing that requires the speeds that an FTTP connection provides. All it does is reduce the wait times for large uploads and downloads and most people don't do that very often. The only real advantage of FTTP over FTTC is slightly increased reliability and - for the providers - reduced operating costs.
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Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
Edited by Andrue (Sun 25-Aug-24 08:04:44)
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It's odd how some areas are chosen. Brackley is a fairly affluent area but VM have never installed their network here. We got FTTC fairly early on but still don't have Openreach FTTP except on the new housing estates. We do however have Swish and Gigaclear.
My theory on the FTTP 'delay' (it's supposedly coming before end of the year according to their last published list) is that FTTC has given adequate cover for most of the town and they don't think there will be much interest. However it's also true that some of the older housing estates don't have ducted cables so that might be a factor but it's a small proportion of properties by now.
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Andrue Cope
Brackley, UK
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It's simply they have a limited number of engineers in each region, and they have to do them in *some* order, so *someone* goes to the end of the list.
Anecdotally, when other FTTP providers arrive in an area, that can push it to the top of the Openreach list - because they don't want to lose customers. (Conversely, when the only option is Openreach copper, then people have nowhere to move to)
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I don’t know if OR change their own rollout plans to counteract a competitors rollout , OR moving an area up its schedule to try and deny a competitor being the ‘first available’ advantage, in my opinion is not that likely as there is huge amount of work needed in advance, headend location and capacity, spine cabling , aggregation node provision etc , all that needs to be in place before a ‘local’ rollout can be considered, and that will be months if not years in the planning, procurement, and provision, but even if OR do this , its not ‘immoral’ or ‘sharp practice’ in fact it would be an abdication of their responsibility not to do that .
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DLM was not a real problem for me.
Well lucky you then. Just because you didn't have a problem, don't assume that it's fine for everyone else.
Many people live a long way from a cabinet, and DLM sucks really badly for them...
Just wanted to second that, speaking as someone who suffered for years at the end of a long, rotten, mixed Cu/Al line that OR was never going to do anything about. The continual problems caused by DLM were the main reason I went to FTTP, even though it meant taking a punt on an unknown altnet that might go bust tomorrow. I only have 150/150, I don't need the speed, but by comparison the reliability is wonderful.
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It's very convenient how Adrian always speaks to people just that week about broadband-related topics that seem to support his position. I work in the industry and I don't talk to people about internet connections outside of work at all.
I speak to people who don't agree with me as well, some i speak to one discord want something better than what they have, one use a mobile network, and certainly want something better, since it cuts out a fair bit. But they don't care what technology it is, as long as it works. There was talk of FTTP where they live, but nothing yet. They have FTTC available, but not great for the price.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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Well lucky you then. Just because you didn't have a problem, don't assume that it's fine for everyone else.
Many people live a long way from a cabinet, and DLM sucks really badly for them.
Never said other people did not or don't have a problem, with FTTC and if FTTP is available and they want to move, then that should be up to them, not the shoving, pushing, forcing that we are getting
Fed up with companies, government and corporations pushing us to do things
FTTP is better because it's more reliable. Yes, Openreach is pumping a large amount of money into it - yes it's for commercial reasons, but it's not really about profit (if it was, they would have done it years ago). It's to prevent themselves from disappearing into irrelevance, with other newer networks being built.
You say it is more reliable, and maybe it is in the grand scheme of things, but people still have problems with it. Fibre can be damaged more easily, as I found out on the first couple of months with Zzoomm and someone decided to dig into the fibre. I know that can happen with copper, but copper don't carry as much data, so don't normally knock out a load of people's broadband at the same time. Granted, since they sorted that out, my service have been amazing.
But given that FTTP is being built, it makes no sense at all to be running a legacy copper network in parallel forever. It's perfectly reasonable IMO to expect people, gradually, to move across (as it becomes available, and as contracts come up for renewal). And it *does* ultimately benefit the consumer, to get a far more reliable network at a broadly similar price.
It is just the pushing and not giving people the choice or making it more difficult. One of my brothers have been pushed to Talk Talk, due to Shell being sold off to Octopus and then Octopus selling the broadband section to Talk Talk. He don;t really want to stay with Talk Talk, mainly because already they have put the price up, but trying to find another provider that makes it easy to get FTTC, no doubt we can phone them, but that seems to be the only way. Doing it online, they all want him to go toe FTTP. He lives in a flat that don't belong to him, so need to get permission, need to muck around with finding somewhere to put the ONT and that sort of thing, something else to find a socket for. He is older than me and all he wants is to be able to browse the net. He doesn't stream stuff, but I am trying to get him to do that, the only other thing he has connected is his Echo dot and his phone. He has a small mobile unit that he takes camping, so he can connect his tablet to the net, he is considering using that for the home, but he will need a Wi-fi dongle for the computer.
Some people just don't want the hassle. Now my other brother, well I think it was more his wife than him, anyway, they had FTTP installed and a 500Mb/s speed, before I did. He is saying about going to a slower speed since his wife have passed, but not done that yet.
Again you say about it being more reliable, but most people don't have a problem with FTTC, so to them FTTC is reliable.
I had problems, about 6 years ago, and that was Openreach network, but apart from that it was ok. I realise FTTP is more reliable in the long term, just stop pushing people to it as if that is their only option when it is not.
I know that in many places that is their only option, but not here yet
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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Lucky you have the choice. No sign of FTTP in my parents neighbourhood, and FTTC/VDSL is “DIG” so no ducts to the houses. After 9th OR call-out my family have moved to Virgin Media cable ; coax but it works. Neighbourhood built 1970 to 1972 and no telegraph poles in most of town, everything underground.
Town is 130,000 people and CityFibre has some areas built but appears to have slowed.
It is bad when people don't have the choice, I agree with choice, both ways.
i see FTTP still have the problems that FTTC have, cars taking out cabinets.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zzoomminherefordshir...
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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+1 to that. I'm about 750 metres away from the cabinet I was on, on a line that was still partly aluminium. Three days uptime for me was good. I always said that as soon as FTTP became available, I'd have it no matter what. When it 'arrived', I noticed that my FTTC spontaneously improved very noticeably, presumably as a result of less crosstalk as people moved away from FTTC but I went ahead with FTTP anyway and am very happy with the result.
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cars taking out cabinets
No cabinets on FTTP
54-46 was my number
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No cabinets on FTTP
You missed the word “openreach” before FTTP in your sentance.
Plenty of cabinets on alt-nets, CityFibre Virgin Media/nexfibre FTTP and legacy coax.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
Edited by jchamier (Sun 25-Aug-24 14:29:01)
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There is multiple so called cherry areas that dont even have plans from Openreach.
I find the whole urban vs rural thing fascinating, as media article after article talks rural as some kind of wasteland for FTTP, when it has actually had most of OR's FTTP resources and build.
As an example my inner city area has no Openreach plans, not 2030, no plans. There is also no plan to close the exchange as it is a metro node. I have found other city areas in a similar situation. Wasnt hard to do after I started looking at the metro exchange locations around the country.
My area has some of the most highest housing density in the country as its dominated by terraced housing, with some HMO's mixed in as a bonus.
VM historically have been dominant here, but they are in my opinion have been asleep at the wheel, no sign of a Mustang upgrade yet and I expect carnage on their take up in the city, especially as Sky are now a CityFibre partner, and CityFibre when they are done will have almost 100% coverage of the city.
I expect take up across all FTTP to end up similar to FTTC eventually combined across all providers, but not on on any particular provider except localised in areas of infrastructure monopoly.
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It is bad when people don't have the choice, I agree with choice, both ways.
i see FTTP still have the problems that FTTC have, cars taking out cabinets.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zzoomminherefordshir...
On ADSL the service I had was only at acceptable levels of quality during my time on Ukonline using SRA technology. On VDSL (FTTC) the copper reliability for the most was very good, sure I had dips in speed related to crosstalk, but the VDSL uptime was excellent, there was "one" occasion a car crashed into my cabinet, I will take that over the noise infested ADSL service.
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No cabinets on FTTP
Not necessarily true. This is the cabinet that contains my fibre OLT.
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I can just imagine what you would say if you lived in a dark cold cave and was told you was being moved to a warm house with electric and hot running water 🤣 I bet you don't have a car and still use a push bike to get around.
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cars taking out cabinets
No cabinets on FTTP
Ours do, I pass a noisy thing on the way to work and back, also there is a small one around the corner from me.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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On ADSL the service I had was only at acceptable levels of quality during my time on Ukonline using SRA technology. On VDSL (FTTC) the copper reliability for the most was very good, sure I had dips in speed related to crosstalk, but the VDSL uptime was excellent, there was "one" occasion a car crashed into my cabinet, I will take that over the noise infested ADSL service.
I remember when I first went to ADSL, the Alcatel frog modem or stingray as some people called it. Only went to it because BT gave me free connection and I had a lodger here, and she said she would pay half of it. so i stuck the modem in place of the dial-up modem on the computer that was in my bedroom, giving us access to the net via Internet connection sharing on Windows 95, using 10Base-2 I think to connect all three machines together, mine hers and the server type thing in the bedroom. It worked well to be honest.
When she left, I just put the modem on my own computer, then though the years updated to as fast an ADSL I could get until i went to the Wireless network.
Crazy now we look at it, that I got so excited when i went from dial up to ADSL, the difference in speed was amazing, never felt that excitement moving to anything else. Maybe it is because I am older.
ADSL worked fine for what it was, the main problem I had was the speed not being constant, one day if I would get 1Mb/s and the next it could be 3. FTTC, I started to have speed problems towards the end of my contract last year., I thought maybe it was Plusnet doing things to try and push me to FTTP, then I got my TP link router and it got better.
i do feel for people who can't get decent broadband, it really needs to be sorted, instead of bothered about stupid speeds, get decent speed to people who can't get it, the same with mobile networks. We are told that 5G is faster and better, and yet there are still places where there is no signal.
There is no money in that, not worth it for a few people in a village.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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I can just imagine what you would say if you lived in a dark cold cave and was told you was being moved to a warm house with electric and hot running water 🤣 I bet you don't have a car and still use a push bike to get around.
Sometimes i think we would be better off living in caves, as a race, humans should have stayed in them, the earth may be in a better state. We seem to use tech to find more ways to kill people.
I do use a pushbike to get around, it is electric, but I still need to peddle, nothing wrong with bikes, look at the Netherlands. Maybe if more people used them in this country, we would not have the traffic jams we have. I can get home in less than 10 minutes from work on my bike, people can be in the traffic jam for 30 minutes, some longer.
Oh yeah, my brother-in-law and sister cycle most places, they also do have a car and can both drive, but only choose to for going off or shopping.
Driving never interested me, I have seen how traffic have built up in the city over the years and thought, do i really want to be stuck in that?
I do have a motorbike licence, if i ever decided to get back on one,, while they are cheaper to run than cars, I still have no interest, constantly paying out for it. A bike gives me a bit of exercise, even with electric, as i can lower the electric assist down. If I want to go further, I can use a bus, train or even go out with my partner somewhere as she drives, but do need something smaller than the land rover.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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"ADSL may not be, but FTTC is."
I know you know but with both it is still twin wires to the cabinet from the home and that is the major problem.
We have had 4 issues in the last 3 years and that was with water ingress at the cabinet and loose connections with the wires at the cabinet. Once fixed we have good speeds on FTTC and we had good speeds on ADSL.
FTTP is still better but not available for us. Some alt-nets in neighbouring streets charge £10 less for FTTP than we are paying for FTTC.
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk, upgraded to fibre 40/10
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The noisy one is more likely to be a VM local master for their passive premises distribution cabinets Adrian. How long has it been there?
Don't forget that FTTP is, I believe, an Openreach-originated acronym in this country. Though now often being used by people to refer to all "full-fibre" providers' products. Becoming ubiquitous like Hoover.
As I understand it all the minnows swallowed up by VM referred to their products as cable TV or cable internet. Hence the chamber lids with CATV on them.
We know that the organized workers of the country are our friends. As for the rest, they don’t matter a tinker’s cuss - Manny Shinwell
Connections: Pixel 6a on Three 4+ (LTE)/5G, OnePlus 8 Pro on EE in reserve. At home Three Mobile, with (Three)ZTE MC888 router giving 5G most of the time..
Edited by pluralist (Mon 26-Aug-24 13:58:47)
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The noisy one is more likely to be a VM local master for their passive premises distribution cabinets Adrian. How long has it been there? Could be any active kit from any non-Openreach network. Not always VM. Majority of AltNets don't have the underground chambers for storing GPON splitters, and they also need somewhere to run the trunk links back to their head-ends.
Don't forget that FTTP is, I believe, an Openreach-originated acronym in this country. Though now often being used by people to refer to all "full-fibre" providers' products. Becoming ubiquitous like Hoover.
Really? I think its a global communications / IT industry term, and nothing to do with British Telecommunications PLC trading/as Openreach.
As I understand it all the minnows swallowed up by VM referred to their products as cable TV or cable internet. Hence the chamber lids with CATV on them. That would be because the licensing in the late 80s, early 90s was from the government push to compete with BT with fixed line telephony and they knew the only way to get anyone to invest in digging the ground was to allow television.
The acryonym CATV is not UK specific, and goes back a long way... viz:
The abbreviation CATV is used in the US for cable television and originally stood for community antenna television, from cable television's origins in 1948
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_television
In some UK towns that had a communal antenna (for BBC/ITV television in the 1970s) you may have seen grids with CATV markings, and services such as Rediffusion TV used this too.
Internet over cable TV came much later when Cable Labs created the DOCSIS technology, and many cable networks had to upgrade street amplifiers only designed for one way to be bidirectional. In the UK this started with the trial that NTL ran from the Guildford office in summer 1999, and by the Sept I was able to apply in the Farnborough area. It was brand new tech then.
24 years of broadband connectivity since 1999 trial - Live BQM
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cars taking out cabinets
No cabinets on FTTP
That is not even true for Openreach, as the subtended headends go in green cabinets. A quick Google shows an article from last August saying there are already over 100 of them in the UK, so there will be plenty more by now.
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"ADSL may not be, but FTTC is."
I know you know but with both it is still twin wires to the cabinet from the home and that is the major problem.
We have had 4 issues in the last 3 years and that was with water ingress at the cabinet and loose connections with the wires at the cabinet. Once fixed we have good speeds on FTTC and we had good speeds on ADSL.
FTTP is still better but not available for us. Some alt-nets in neighbouring streets charge £10 less for FTTP than we are paying for FTTC.
ADSL problem here was that the cable go from my house, to the old exchange and then doubles back to the new exchange, so it is twice as long as it needs to be, that is why my ADSL was so naff. FTTC is as it says. Fibre goes to the cabinet and then copper wires form there, more or less bringing the technology from the exchange closer to me, but not that close. If the cabinet was closer, I would have got faster FTTC, but I don't think I would have paid for the faster speed. If i had gone for an Openreach based FTTP, like Plusnet I would have gone for the lowest package, which I think is 74Mb/s, but as I was already on Plusnet FTTC, they did offer me 36Mb/s on FTTP. They certainly were pushing FTTP, they did in the end tried to give me an okay deal on FTTC, even reduced the contract to 18 months, but it was too late .
Altnets are normally cheaper, but even Openreach based providers charge less for FTTP than FTTC, I think Openreach charge them less, and they are pushing FTTP like crazy.
I hope it comes to you soon.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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The noisy one is more likely to be a VM local master for their passive premises distribution cabinets Adrian. How long has it been there?
Before the network become live, it is omn the edge of the cycle path, and they dug the edge of the cycle path up before most people knew who they were and what they were doing here.
Don't forget that FTTP is, I believe, an Openreach-originated acronym in this country. Though now often being used by people to refer to all "full-fibre" providers' products. Becoming ubiquitous like Hoover.
In the U.S it is called FTTH (Fibre to the Home), I don't know if FTTP is an Openreach thing or not.
As I understand it all the minnows swallowed up by VM referred to their products as cable TV or cable internet. Hence the chamber lids with CATV on them.
Don't know, we don't have Virgin here, saying that I did see lid not so long ago with CATV on it, but maybe it was borrowed from somewhere else.
I can't see virgin coming here, i would be shocked if we have a third network, I am shocked we have two as it is.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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That is not even true for Openreach, as the subtended headends go in green cabinets. A quick Google shows an article from last August saying there are already over 100 of them in the UK, so there will be plenty more by now. Whenever someone says the Openreach network doesn't use cabinets there is always at least one person who wants to correct so brings up SHEs, do you want to have a guess at how many PONs there are in the UK and how many of them hang off a SHE? lets just accept they are the exception rather than the rule and their numbers are so small that they would probably be just a blip on the map small enough to miss.
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i do feel for people who can't get decent broadband, it really needs to be sorted, instead of bothered about stupid speeds, get decent speed to people who can't get it, the same with mobile networks. We are told that 5G is faster and better, and yet there are still places where there is no signal.
There is no money in that, not worth it for a few people in a village.
so openreach upgrading the network so all people can get better broadband is a good thing but you dont like them pushing people onto this better network so they can shut down the old network.
The SOGEA network is breaking at the seams do you think you will still be happy with the degraded network when it collapses completely.
Btw you can no longer get FTTC on the openreach network as a new or moving provider customer.
It is funny how you didnt seem the annoyed when you went from the frog modem to a router. and i very much doubt you used 10base2 to connect up your computers.
I also doubt you have a mobile phone or streaming services at home all these days need faster and faster connections.
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so openreach upgrading the network so all people can get better broadband is a good thing but you dont like them pushing people onto this better network so they can shut down the old network.
Should be up to people, some people may not want to be bothered with getting Fibre installed and some people may not be able to.
The SOGEA network is breaking at the seams do you think you will still be happy with the degraded network when it collapses completely.
Only breaking apart due to lack of maintenance and that have been the problem for years. I was told over 20 years ago the cables needed to be replaced that went from the pole to my home, never happened, all they did was a bodged job, I am surprised they did the job for so long.
Btw you can no longer get FTTC on the openreach network as a new or moving provider customer.
Who told you that? In some places that is true, but not true here yet, Openreach has to have 75% coverage of an exchange area, and then they have to give notice, so another 12 months after that have happened. Still roads in this city that are not covered by Openreach FTTP network. I chat to people in other places, including one that is supposed to be in a stop sell area, and they have managed to stay on FTTC.
it is true that ISPs are making it more difficult to stay on FTTC, that is why Plusnet lost me as a customer
It is funny how you didnt seem the annoyed when you went from the frog modem to a router. and i very much doubt you used 10base2 to connect up your computers.
It was something like that, co-ax cable, with BNC connectors and a terminator on the end of them, a little T connection put onto the cards to join the machines together.
Used cards like this
Still have a couple here,
Routers were pretty basic then and expensive, my first one did not have wi-fi. The router was better for me, saved me having a long phone cable.
I also doubt you have a mobile phone or streaming services at home all these days need faster and faster connections.
Not in the early ADSL days no, I did have a mobile phone , but it certainly was not a smartphone, it was an Alcatel with a little stubby antenna, my first phone that was more than a basic one was a HTC S710, which had a sliding keyboard, I joined BT Internet anywhere package, BT used something called Fon. In theory, we were supposed to be able to use other people's routers, or a bit of their bandwidth anyway, but it did not work out that way as there were very few people that used it, so I did not bother with the features of the phone unless I was home, I think that was around 2008 ish. The phone had windows mobile on it, really slow, the only good thing about it was the sliding keyboard.
That was the time when BT really annoyed me and I had a right argument on the phone with them and told them I was leaving as soon as i can and i will never go back to them and as such I never have. Sure I went to Plusnet and while they are owned by BT, they were not run by BT and that was years after.
no streaming in the early days of ADSL either, I used to rent DVD's from Lovefilm, then they started to offer streaming and at the time my ADSL was around2.5Mb/s as it was later on in the ADSL days, and we had what was it called, ADSL+? Anyway, i was able to stream from Lovefilm just about.
A local company called Allpay which is a payment card company decided to offer Wireless broadband, was able to offer 10Mb/s, so I thought I would give it a try, this was in 2012, it cost more than ADSL, but I thought it would be better, and it was for a while, also could dump Openreach once and for all, so I thought.
Took a 24-month contract out with Allpay, and it worked fine for the first 18 months or so, and then they took on more than they could chew and could not cope with the bandwidth.
The idea was to give people broadband in areas that could not get it, they used churches to put the masts on, the one I connected to was on the cathedral. The expansion not the city itself did not go well as they could not cope as I said above. I did not renew my contract as I was getting less than I did with ADSL towards the end of my contract.
I had to move pretty quickly, FTTC was up and running by then and plusnet was the only provider, apart from Talk Talk, that could get me connected quickly and not charge a small fortune. My plan was to move from them after 18 months, but I got lazy and they offered me decent prices for each new contract. That is why I stayed with them for nearly 10 years and I did not pay much more per month at the end of my time with them, than i did when I started., So not too bad.
As for Allpay, I admire what they tried to do, they found a problem that people living in the sticks could not get ADSL, or was not great and decided to do something about it, sadly they could not cope and FTTC being rolled out killed it off.
I may have still been with them if it was still working, but not sure if 10Mb/s would be enough now. I still have the thing on the roof of the house, they never came to collect it.
It is strange how things have changed, from dial up to super-duper FTTP speed, not against it at all, after all i am on FTTP myself, just hate the pushing, give people the option, sure at some point that is all it will be.
It seems to be push this, push that, not just broadband and FTTP, but other things, you can't go into a supermarket these days without them wanting to push some card at you. My partner went into our local Tescos a few weeks ago, she doesn't normally shop there, and this bloke was trying to push a handset into her hand, she said no thank you, but he was not going to take no for an answer and went on to explain the advantages and all of that stuff. She said in the end she had to get a bit ratty with him. I know they have a job to do, i work in retail myself, but no means no.
Adrian
Desktop machines Mac mini pro with macOS Ventura, also pc Ryzen powered with windows something or other.
Zooming with Zzoomm FTTP,
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. . . My partner went into our local Tescos a few weeks ago, she doesn't normally shop there, and this bloke was trying to push a handset into her hand, she said no thank you, but he was not going to take no for an answer and went on to explain the advantages and all of that stuff. She said in the end she had to get a bit ratty with him. I know they have a job to do, i work in retail myself, but no means no.
The same happened to me in a M&S Food Hall a few months ago and the woman trying to get me to use the technology was most put out when I refused, telling her that I wasn't interested in putting check-out staff out of their jobs.
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