do isps have to go via parliament as well?

incidently my MP first told me go direct to ofcom, when I told her last week I cant do that she wasnt impressed and said would chase why ofcom have no direct channel available.

ISPs respond to consultations and complain to Ofcom about what they think are breaches of Ofcom's regulations and decisions.

If they don't respond to consultations they're stuffed.

Complaints about Ofcom's policies can be forwarded to the appropriate team in Ofcom. I would assume you want to speak with Next Generation Access.

To help you frame it have a look at:

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/p...
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati...
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultati...

Do be aware that these consultations were completed and the policy statements published in March 2009 in the case of NGA and FTTC and April 2010 in the case of FTTP so the policy has been there for a while.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I dont see the problem of simply lowering min terms without a penalty on the wires only install when its available.

aside from the barrier issue there is also the matter its a hinderence to competition which I would have thought would concern ofcom, there is little point in having competition if people cant move for 12 months without penalty.

and on the 12 months products I would expect free install, with a monthly service available with £100-150 install. (engineer install). and maybe 6 months with subsidised install maybe £50. and an engineer no show to yield a regulated full install refund to the end user to drive up standards.

There is nothing stopping retail operators from offering this. For instance Be offer a 3 month contract at a higher monthly price than the 12 month.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

actually I wouldnt really object to the install fees you quoted, but really there shouldnt be repeat install fees on migration. so £150 new install, no long term commitment, then ability to migrate free to new isp.

There's nothing stopping retail operators from offering this either. Openreach aren't going to do migrations for free when they have to be involved as the engineer doing the framing work needs to get paid. BT Wholesale charge their customers 11GBP + VAT for a migration. Trivial to incorporate this into a pricing package.

This is a far more relevant issue to be discussing with Ofcom - that BT pay themselves then pay themselves again, so BT PLC as a whole takes no risks when one part takes out a contract with another and breaks it to gain market share.

do you think they will do any new consultations on this or do they just do one and is set in stone forever until parliament intervenes?

what happens if an isp offers 3 month contract and the end user cancels? there is an underlying 12 month openreach contract, and any idea why isp's still charge full fees for migration's they just profiteering? thats not nice when they dont do the same on adsl.

regardless, if they can do it or not they not doing it. BE dont offer 3 month contracts because they dont sell vdsl. They sell adsl.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 19-Jan-13 21:59:44)

Sorry Chrysalis but I think this whole thread is based on false premises, with yarwell, smurf and IgnitionNet the only ones talking sense.

It has long been the case that some ISPs have implemented OfCom's recommendations wrt the customer terminating the contract within the minimum term.

For example I am on an 18-month minimum term contract with Plusnet. My monthly charge is £19.99. if I decided to migrate out I would have to pay £5.75 per outstanding month.

With any ISP playing fair like that, and given that only a small minority are likely to want early termination, then yes I agree with the sentiment expressed throughout the thread that a much lower one-off initial charge calculated from that sort of figure is both feasible and desirable.

For example O2 LLU is a 12-month term, but an upfront payment of £30 makes it simple monthly at no increased monthly fee. Any ISP is able to do similarly on FTTC.

Once sufficient people are aware of this then voting with wallets comes into play. There is nothing wrong with contractual minimum terms as such, but caveat emptor applies. Buyers have to choose their supplier wisely, and ISPs who screw their customers in this particular regard would soon change their tune.

BT in particular have such a system for phone contracts, but the last I heard not for broadband.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 19-Jan-13 22:36:15)

are you saying I have misunderstood the situation and isp's do not expect install fees for FTTC migrations? when you migrated from idnet to plusnet did you pay a install fee?

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 20-Jan-13 14:16:47)

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

are you saying I have misunderstood the situation

Yes.

... and isp's do not expect install fees for FTTC migrations?

I am not saying that. I am saying it is up to them what they do about the £50+vat that Openreach charge the gaining ISP for an FTTC migration and what they do about 12-month contracts and release from them.

when you migrated from idnet to plusnet did you pay a install fee?

As it happens, no. But I should have done. There was a mixup.

isp's do not expect install fees for FTTC migrations

Are we talking about migrations between FTTC ISPs, or switching from ADSL to FTTC (which isn't "migration" in the true sense of the word at all).

so I misunderstood the situation but you should have paid the fee, that means I have not misunderstood it.

can an isp freely eg. charge nothing for migration have a monthly contract with no penalty and make profit in the process whilst charging the same as what plusnet do eg. on 18 month contracts.