Example: Plusnet says that one needs a "BT based landline to get our broadband" (WLR) and that is for ADSL and FTTC.

Yet Zen say here http://www.zen.co.uk/home-office/broadband/fibre-opt... for their fibre and line rental package:

"How do I transfer my phone line to Zen?

Simply call our Sales team on 01706 900269 and we'll get the process started.

Will my number stay the same?

Yes, the transfer of your telephone line means that your number will stay exactly the same."

Which is not so clear?

That was the point of the joke!

No sarcasm intended.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

If it is thro' a reseller on any of them it may or may not be unbundled and you will have to ask. "Does landline remain WLR?".

I hope such an enquiry would result in an unambiguous answer

We are getting in a mess here, because the term "Full LLU" is being used. There is no such "official" term.

On ADSLx there is MPF, where the line and broadband are fully handled by the ISP and WLR is not used, and there is SMPF where the line is WLR.

Examples of the first are most Sky and TalkTalk connections. Examples of the second are all O2/Be connections. The Sky/TT type are what we usually call Full LLU, and the O2/Be ones Partial LLU.

That convenient layman's labelling fails on FTTC, where GEA is used for all the broadband. Trying to find a way to use "Full/Partial" LLU just isn't possible. Basically, on FTTC there is no such thing as LLU.

Specifically - GEA is Openreach's product designed to satisfy the Ofcom VULA (Virtual Unbundled Local Access) specification. Note the word "Virtual".

As such, FTTC as we currently have it is not "unbundled" by Sky and TalkTalk. It would only be unbundled if providers other than Openreach had DSLAM cabinets as well as Openreach. Like Digital Region? The relevant Openreach product is PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access).

Lets say somebody has Sky FTTC and they want to move to IDNET, IDNET say that to switch line rental from LLU there is a charge of £48 - would Sky FTTC count as a LLU provider in that example?

That depends whether Sky handle the phone line on their MSAN or use WLR. The answer may be different at different exchanges, depending on whether or not the copper exchange is also the GEA headend. I've no idea.

Sorry I still don't get it: if there's no "unbundling" as such then in laymen's terms could we just say something like Sky's FTTC network or TalkTalk's FTTC network? This might indicate that the voice service is no longer WLR...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Basically, on FTTC there is no such thing as LLU.

There could be for the voice part. Going bach to what I was asking earlier, the old copper landline could end up on the ISP's kit and not feed into the BT PSTN.

We can still use the informal layman terms. For Fibre, it all boils down to how the voice element is handled::

• either ( WLR or not unbundled or 'not LLU'd' )
• or ( non-WLR or unbundled or 'LLU'd' )

Sky put the line into their own msan like i said earlier

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sky put the line into their own msan like i said earlier

If they have 1 at the exchange, i.e. if they are ADSL LLU'd there, I think Roberto is trying to say.