In reply to a post by ajseeds:

I was referring to dial-up based telemetry, used as second back-up, when internet and GSM fail. The comms. protocols are proprietary multi-tone coding. To function they need a dial-up voice line connection and that is not available during an area power cut, once mobile has dropped out, if there is no PSTN.

When the copper is removed is not relavant to this problem. The issue is when maintained comms. service ceases to be available and that looks like 2025, unless Openreach FTTP is available.

Chances are if stuff works at the moment by dialling a phone number and squeaking down it then it will continue to work over VoIP - you haven't dialled a number and gotten a direct circuit to the far end for a very long time so if the tones have been within the capabilities of existing digital exchange equipment it will continue to work.

FTTP or not has no bearing on the availability of "maintained comms services" - the 'landline' element of FTTP is exactly the same as it is currently for customers on Digital Voice (or whatever your chosen ISP calls it) on SOGEA.

ajseeds

The copper is not being withdrawn where there is no FTTP.

It is PSTN that is going by the end of 2025. This just mandates a move to VOIP for voice.

Your tone calling will still work over the BT voice VOIP service IF you have designed it to the correct standards. The network will pass all the tones as voice. If you have not followed the Standards the service will fail. This was all communicated to the alarm industry prior to 2006 and tested on thousands of devices at that time. ( BT knew then that the PSTN would have to be replaced by an IP network and industry wide comms were started, if firms have not updated their products 17 years later that is purely their fault)

Edited by kitcat (Tue 31-Jan-23 12:39:38)

In reply to a post by kitcat:

ajseeds

The copper is not being withdrawn where there is no FTTP.

It is PSTN that is going by the end of 2025. This just mandates a move to VOIP for voice.

FTTC is not being withdrawn either for users on lower end packages, so it seems.
I still feel pushing people onto VoiP is without some sort of battery back up is not a good idea

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

FTTC is not being withdrawn either for users on lower end packages, so it seems.

No, it's nothing to do with "lower end packages".

In properties which have FTTP available, and which are in an area where copper stop-sell is in force, you won't be able to order FTTC for any package. Even 40/10 or 80/20 will be delivered as FTTP. Copper will no longer be available to order, nor are regrades or migration orders accepted.

In properties which *don't* have FTTP available, you can continue to take copper-based services indefinitely. But you will have to give up your PSTN+FTTC service, and switch to SOGEA (or SOGFast or SOTAP), before Dec 2025, due to the separate PSTN switch-off project.

Combining these two rollouts: if you're in an FTTP area with copper stop sell in force, but currently have a PSTN+FTTC service, you'll be able to let it roll on for now. But by Dec 2025, you'll have to change. Since SOGEA won't be an option for you, you'll have to move to FTTP - or lose your service entirely.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In properties which have FTTP available...

Apologies if I've missed this somewhere, but do all these factors apply if the FTTP is via an altnet rather than BT?

The Openreach PSTN withdrawal and copper stop-sell applies only to the Openreach network. They aren't going to withdraw SOGEA if they cannot provide you with FTTP.

Thanks 👍

With that said, I wouldn't expect any other providers to offer analogue phone lines even though technically they could. There will be lots of providers using the Openreach PSTN switch-off as cover to do their own migrations to VoIP. If you have equipment that plugs into a copper line and relies on receiving power from the telephone exchange then it's time to plan a replacement.

I've been keeping an eye open for likely possible pitfalls with stop-sells etc and not anticipating any great problems; I'm a pretty ordinary user

It's just that when I went out this morning the streets around me were infested with Gigaclear vans, so I thought I'd check the position.

The only time I am aware of where availability of a non-Openreach network is taken into account is when deciding if a property is eligible for the USO scheme, in those circumstances if you applied to BT as the USO provider they would determine that Gigaclear could serve you and your claim to be connected as a USO case would be declined.