HyperOptic - Potential Installation

Hi all,

We have the potential to have Hyperoptic installed and I was wondering what we should check with them and what you great folks can answer from experience:

ROUTERS
Dynamic DNS
INSTALLATIONS
PHONE SERVICE
TRUE FIBRE

1 - What are the pros / cons of their different routers? (ZTE H298A, H298N (Still?), Tilgin HG2381). What is their WiFi strength like.
Have HO offered wifi extenders or beter mesh set-ups like some of their competitors?

2 - Does CGNAT essential stop dynamic DNS services from working? Does that mean you cannot easily set-up on your router No-IP or alternatives?
I am not sure how a IPv6-to-4 gateway would work in the router.

3 - How amenable have you found their installers to installing their equipment where requested (eg sitting room), rather than in hallways?

4 - Do any of you use their phone service with a real phone? Any thoughts reviews?

5 - Where is the ONT (Optical Network Terminal)? Assuming that HO now offer fibre to your flat, rather than the building (which I understand was their original rollout).
Do you thus require 2 power sockets?

In reply to a post by icstm:

5 - Where is the ONT (Optical Network Terminal)? Assuming that HO now offer fibre to your flat, rather than the building (which I understand was their original rollout).
Do you thus require 2 power sockets?

It's still fibre to the building, with cat5e to each individual flat/apartment.

They can use fibre right to your property, but it's building dependant.
They haven't switched to using full fibre in all cases, but call it all full fibre.
Still mainly FTTB.

In reference to hyperoptic.com/information-advice/posts/the-download-on-full-fibre/:

What is full fibre?
We’re glad you asked! You’ve probably heard about the “fibre” broadband lots of providers now claim to offer. But beware – this kind of service is actually a mix of fibre and copper. That means fibre to the green cabinet on the street and copper to your home. Yes, you read that right: copper. The same slow phone technology that’s been around for over 100 years. Copper connections can cause frustrating drops in service. We believe it is no longer fit for purpose when it comes to broadband.

Hyperoptic provides full fibre, all the way to your building. Our built-for-purpose infrastructure bypasses those street cabinets, taking state-of-the-art fibre cabling right to the premises. When it comes to fast, reliable broadband, our full fibre connection is king.

Yes, CGNAT breaks DDNS.
You can pay for a static IP.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 30-Jul-20 20:50:24)

1. I wouldn't have thought a typical apartment would pose a problem for any WiFi router these days, not even with 5GHz WiFi. I have the Tilgin router and have total 2.4GHz/5GHz WiFi coverage in a 2 bed apartment (built in 1997). The WiFi router is located fairly centrally within my apartment.

Maybe if your apartment is old with really thick walls, is absolutely huge (bigger than a large house), and the WiFi router is not in an ideal location then you might potentially have some coverage issues, but I think this is unlikely with any relatively modern build. There's always Powerline WiFi extenders if you have a problem (assuming your mains cabling is up to snuff etc.).

2. If you have any plans to use ssh over Hyperoptic, get yourself a static IP.

3. I'd had some building work done ahead of my Hyperoptic install so was fortunate enough to be able to lay underfloor CAT6 cabling from a hall closet in my flat out to an RJ45 socket I fitted to the wall in the "external" service/riser cupboard outside my flat used by Hyperoptic to run their cables to each flat (their fibre-to-ethernet switch is in the basement plant room of my apartment building). The Hyperoptic installers only had to terminate their CAT5e cable in the riser cupboard and connect it to my "external" wall socket then install the Tilgin router in the hall closet - job done, 1Gbps service up and running in under 20 minutes (that includes the 5-10 minutes it took me to explain/convince them that all they had to do was use my pre-installed socket...!).

Otherwise they'd have drilled through from the riser cupboard and installed an RJ45 wall socket in the hallway which would have been less than ideal. I'm sure they'd do their best to locate a socket where you want it (within reason) using surface cabling etc., but if you're able then take care of the internal cabling yourself and provide them with an "external" RJ45 wall socket (assuming you know where the Hyperoptic cable will enter your flat etc.).

There is this FAQ entry on the Hyperoptic web site:

Do I need to pay for installation?
Standard installations are usually free of charge for all new customers.

If you have additional requirements (for example if you would like your Hyperoptic equipment installed in a specific room), please contact our Customer Service team on 0333 332 1111 or email us at [email protected].

4. Yep, my old Panasonic DECT phone/answerphone works fine, just the same as it did with a BT landline. Even Caller ID works. Transferred my old number from BT too. Just get a "BT socket to RJ11 plug" adapter (£2 or less on ebay) in order to connect a phone with a BT plug to the Hyperoptic router. Call costs are reasonable (certainly UK/local calls). Voice quality is very slightly worse than with the BT landline, but totally acceptable once you get used to it. Obviously, don't rely on the Hyperoptic phone service during a power cut etc. etc.

5. As already posted by j0hn83, it's still FTTB (at least for now), with CAT5e from the fibre switch to the individual properties.

Edited by deleted (Fri 31-Jul-20 08:13:09)

Hey there, we'd love to have you on-board. If you have any questions about our services, you can send us a message directly on the forum or get in touch with our friendly customer support. We're always here to assist. 😊

Thank you for promptly replying, sorry I was not as fast!

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

It's still fibre to the building, with cat5e to each individual flat/apartment.

They can use fibre right to your property, but it's building dependant.
They haven't switched to using full fibre in all cases, but call it all full fibre.
Still mainly FTTB.

Yes, CGNAT breaks DDNS.
You can pay for a static IP.

Good to know, they made it sound like FTTP, rather than FTTB, but it sounded like only 1 box (router) is fitted, which I thought odd.

On CGNAT, how does it impact other services that try to offer remote connections to your computer, like TeamViewer or Jump Desktop?

Edited by deleted (Mon 03-Aug-20 15:13:50)

In reply to a post by Milhouse:

1. I wouldn't have thought a typical apartment would pose a problem for any WiFi router these days, not even with 5GHz WiFi. I have the Tilgin router and have total 2.4GHz/5GHz WiFi coverage in a 2 bed apartment (built in 1997). The WiFi router is located fairly centrally within my apartment.

Maybe if your apartment is old with really thick walls, is absolutely huge (bigger than a large house), and the WiFi router is not in an ideal location then you might potentially have some coverage issues, but I think this is unlikely with any relatively modern build. There's always Powerline WiFi extenders if you have a problem (assuming your mains cabling is up to snuff etc.).

2. If you have any plans to use ssh over Hyperoptic, get yourself a static IP.

3. I'd had some building work done ahead of my Hyperoptic install so was fortunate enough to be able to lay underfloor CAT6 cabling from a hall closet in my flat out to an RJ45 socket I fitted to the wall in the "external" service/riser cupboard outside my flat used by Hyperoptic to run their cables to each flat (their fibre-to-ethernet switch is in the basement plant room of my apartment building). The Hyperoptic installers only had to terminate their CAT5e cable in the riser cupboard and connect it to my "external" wall socket then install the Tilgin router in the hall closet - job done, 1Gbps service up and running in under 20 minutes (that includes the 5-10 minutes it took me to explain/convince them that all they had to do was use my pre-installed socket...!).

Otherwise they'd have drilled through from the riser cupboard and installed an RJ45 wall socket in the hallway which would have been less than ideal. I'm sure they'd do their best to locate a socket where you want it (within reason) using surface cabling etc., but if you're able then take care of the internal cabling yourself and provide them with an "external" RJ45 wall socket (assuming you know where the Hyperoptic cable will enter your flat etc.).

4. Yep, my old Panasonic DECT phone/answerphone works fine, just the same as it did with a BT landline. Even Caller ID works. Transferred my old number from BT too. Just get a "BT socket to RJ11 plug" adapter (£2 or less on ebay) in order to connect a phone with a BT plug to the Hyperoptic router. Call costs are reasonable (certainly UK/local calls). Voice quality is very slightly worse than with the BT landline, but totally acceptable once you get used to it. Obviously, don't rely on the Hyperoptic phone service during a power cut etc. etc.

5. As already posted by j0hn83, it's still FTTB (at least for now), with CAT5e from the fibre switch to the individual properties.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.

1 - we have solid concrete walls. My current Sky router definitely has problems with 5GHz Wifi and on 2.4GHz, it does not have the bandwidth of streaming local media well to different rooms

If neither router is better, what are the key differences?

2 - Not SSH, just access little web services that various apps can spin up, or use remote desktop services like Jump desktop.

3 - Noted

4 - This is very helpful, as is what I would look to do.

5 - Why Cat5e, surely if they want to future-proof their fibre installation with faster ethernet cables?

In reply to a post by icstm:

5 - Why Cat5e, surely if they want to future-proof their fibre installation with faster ethernet cables?

The reason given in the past is that Cat5e is easier to work with, which it is marginally as it's a bit thinner due to not having the plastic spacer running down the centre to enforce the proper spacing and twisting of the pairs.

The real answer is more likely a combination of penny pinching and short sightedness. I guess the Cat5e is good for 2.5Gbps NBaseT, but where they using Cat6a, it would be good for 10Gbps which is likely as good as copper is ever going to get for any distance. I further doubt that domestic internet connections will exceed 10Gbps in my lifetime.

There is the 25Gbps and 40Gbps on Cat8 standard which is max 30m and requires special connectors and is point to point (no wall sockets and patch leads allowed) and is really designed for the data centre. Frankly I don't see it much traction because either direct attach cables will be the norm in the data centre for short distances or we will just use some fibre. Even 10GBaseT has not gained any traction in the data centre is's all SFP+ direct attach or optical fibre. In fact I would go as far to say that 10GBaseT in the data centre would be a right pain in the backside as it would invariably mean buying very expensive 10GBaseT SFP+'s to connect to a switch.

I would note that we do have some short direct attach 100Gbps copper cables at work. I think however next time we do a procurement I am going to mandate that all links running above 10Gbps are to be on fibre. The cables are as thick as your finger, are an absolute pain to work with, and completely jigger the airflow in your racks when you have a whole switch of them. The latter probably means the additional capex cost of fibre over copper is more than the opex cost of additional cooling over their lifespan.

In reply to a post by icstm:

On CGNAT, how does it impact other services that try to offer remote connections to your computer, like TeamViewer or Jump Desktop?

It pretty much brakes everything that makes a direct connection to your home network.
You do not have an IP that can be reached from the internet.

Unless your end of the link initiates the connection there's no way to reach you.

Paying for a static IP or setting up some form of VPN are the only way around it.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 03-Aug-20 20:49:55)

Understood on NAT

Does everyone here swap out the supplied router? I am surprised that there are not more comments about the differences. I've read on this forum variable view on which is "newer" vs which is "better", but nothing that definitive.