IDNet are the UK's top ISP

Scroll down this page:
http://netindex.com/quality/2,4/United-Kingdom/

They're rated top for Broadband Quality in the UK. About time too!

I wouldn't trust this netindex study. It puts BT on one of the top rankings, too, at 4th place, which can't be right.

Personally I found IDNet's services to be quite unreliable, so we finally left them a few weeks ago and switched our line over to a LLU provider. Much better now.

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

we finally left them a few weeks ago and switched our line over to a LLU provider. Much better now.

That's what everyone has been suggesting you do for a year or more, to get away from the BT side of IPStream providers!

Glad you're happier now.

It does make you wonder considering the recent mass outage Idnet suffered. How can we be top of the "quality index"?

In reply to a post by Kevin50:

How can we be top of the "quality index"?

"We" ?

Maybe IDNet customers can discern which problems are the fault of the ISP and which of BT.

It's a pity that ISP customers can't comment separately on the performance of the wholesale supplier used by their ISP.

Hmmm... to be more accurate, they are listed as the top rated of the 15 ISPs listed on that page.

I have a little bird that tells me that there are over 80 retail ISPs in the UK...

List is pointless. Only people with fast connections end up going through with doing the tests, and as Idnet customers are roundly more technically minded they'd look after their wiring better and do more, faster tests.

Check the sample sizes

That's another name ticked on the "Here come the knockers" list....

Actually, the list that is referred to in this post is not populated from speedtest.net results.

It uses pingtest.net data which does not run any sort of speedtest.

Matt

Not disputing that they're a fine ISP. but that the result is based on a relatively tiny pool of responses.

And the gap at the top is still fairly small so there's little to actually be inferred from the results. You certainly can't make proclamations like the title of this thread. Be like looking at the download figures and saying Virgin are twice as good as anyone else. Clearly not.

Seems I'm not alone in this thread in querying it.

Edited by orly (Wed 23-Mar-11 19:00:54)

You can certainly make statements like the posts heading if that is what you feel and find for yourself. It's called free speech and opinion. It's no good saying that isn't the case because if that is what people feel is right then it is right.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by Kevin50:

How can we be top of the "quality index"?

"We" ?

Maybe IDNet customers can discern which problems are the fault of the ISP and which of BT.

It's a pity that ISP customers can't comment separately on the performance of the wholesale supplier used by their ISP.

Sorry. I said "we" as I'm an Idnet customer.

I'm still having trouble accepting the thread title though. So I googled "top uk isp" and from the first 2 pages it turned up that Idnet came....
12th on this list http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/top50.php
10th on this list http://www.dslzoneuk.net/isp_ratings.php
6th on this list http://www.kitz.co.uk/isp/ISP_ratings.php
and was a no-show on this list http://www.whichisp.com/toprated.html

Taking these more believable figures into account, it would seem that from people who should know better, quoting a single obscure US list site and presenting it as fact (unless I missed the tongue in cheek) smacks of spin.

Smaller sample sizes work relatively negatively on an ISP because happy customers are less inclined to investigate speed issues and 'rate' or comment on their experience. And those that do are less likely to distinguish the difference between ADSL performance and ISP performance e.g. a BT failure reflects badly on the ISP.

The Speedtest.net sample is large due to the sheer scale of the network (50 servers in the UK alone) which generated 585 tests on IDNet over the past month. This compares to 100 or so per month here on TBB, a dozen or so on DSLzone, fewer even on ISPreview and least on Kitz - the latter rankings comprise all entries ever submitted, the significance of older submissions decreases over time. And some of those sites permit customers from other ISPs to submit 'spoiler' ratings if they are so inclined.

But I'm not about to pick an argument with the title of the thread

Edited by simon_idnet (Fri 25-Mar-11 09:50:37)

IDNET are still the UK's TOP ISP. It's all about what its customers perceive and think about them. Doesn't matter how many tests are made they will still be the UK's Top Isp because that's what its customers believe and So do I.

Well done Idnet for getting where you have over the years despite BT.

In reply to a post by simon_idnet:

The Speedtest.net sample is large due to the sheer scale of the network (50 servers in the UK alone) which generated 585 tests on IDNet over the past month.

Do you mean the data that was linked? If so, that isn't speedtest.net data, and is based on pingtest.net with only 3 nodes.

Speedtest.net only has 16 nodes in the UK (London has two) but those samples for IDnet are much higher for the same period (with more than 585 tests) from the three nodes we manage alone, not counting the other 13)

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

those samples for IDnet are much higher for the same period (with more than 585 tests) from the three nodes we manage alone

Speaking for myself only... I don't often use speedtest.net, but when I do I try to use one of your nodes.

Whether it's server load, routing issues or whatever I have no idea (and it's not my problem!), but your nodes usually give me better results than the others, even those that are nearer.

I don't use pingtest.net at all fwiw, I prefer tbb's BQM.

Edited by billford (Fri 25-Mar-11 10:52:50)

Thanks Matt, understood. I only referred to Speedtest.net because the site didn't explicity quote Pingtest.net - I didn't want to confuse things.

As I understand it this data is not about speed, the results are concerned only with Quality = latency, packet loss and jitter. The star rating indicates personal opinion.

Cheers
Simon

It's OK I was talking to Doug @ Ookla about the rankings as some of them looked a little odd *cough* BT *cough* with such a low "rank" but high quality.

However, in their own words, that is one of their least favourite metrics because it is only based on pingtest.net which "isn't given much love" compared to the speedtest.net site.

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 25-Mar-11 10:57:30)

In reply to a post by cavillas:

IDNET are still the UK's TOP ISP. It's all about what its customers perceive and think about them. Doesn't matter how many tests are made they will still be the UK's Top Isp because that's what its customers believe and So do I.

Well done Idnet for getting where you have over the years despite BT.

I do not dispute the fact that IDNet are a good ISP. I used to be with them and, whilst I was, I was happy for most of the time. Circumstances made me change ISP.

Having said that, I think your comment highlighted in bold is spoken through rose tinted spectacles (if I might mix metaphors). Would you think the same if a very small number indicated that, for example, Col. Gadaffi was really a Saint and should be revered? If the right people were asked, I'm sure that answer could be achieved!

The node logic in the UK is a little flawed as most, if not all routing to any of those nodes will go via London.

We have our own test which produces some good results but isn't as "busy" as the ST nodes - each one does about 60+ Mb/s at peak times. (Our own is at http://speedtest.uno.net.uk/)

Matt

Thanks for that, url noted.

Looks similar to the BBMax one, but gives me much more realistic results (especially for ping times) than BBMax

And those that do are less likely to distinguish the difference between ADSL performance and ISP performance e.g. a BT failure reflects badly on the ISP.

Rightly so IMHO. The end user has a contract with the ISP, not with BT Wholesale or BT Openreach.It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

The Namesco one is what also powers one half of the London speedtest.net test - which is highly congested at times, which could answer why there is a difference

Matt

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

[chortle]

Some people do think that Gadaffi is a saint but that is a completely different argument and has nothing to do with views on an ISP. Some people think that elephants are holy and some think that cows are holy so what? You are just trying to divert this thread to another point altogether.

Mine may have been a bad analogy but the point is still there and you are doing little to answer it by suggesting I was trying to change the point of the thread. You made the statement that it did not matter how many people 'voted'. Of course it does. Just the same as it matters if a small percentage of disgruntled IDNet users indicated that IDNet was the worst ISP.

And before you suggest that there are no disgruntled IDNet users, I really do suggest you take off those rose tinted spectacles. One only has to read through the IDNet Forum here in the past and you will find them. I don't support them. As I have said, I personally will not fault IDNet but I am not naive enough to believe that they never make errors and, I would suggest, neither would Simon although he does his level best to please everyone.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

Love it!!!

In reply to a post by cavillas:

Some people think that elephants are holy and some think that cows are holy so what?

And goats are very chewy

One other thing to note here is customer base and company size too.

Companies like IDNet have a smaller customer base than the 'big hitters' like Sky, O2, BT, etc. because they are less well known and don't spend millions on TV adverts, the company founderd/Directors also tend to be enthusiasts and take a 'hands on' approach to building and maintaining the network whereas the big ones will let the network overload and react by speed capping rather than upgrading equipment or link capacity in order to retain a healthy prodit margin.

In reply to a post by Linc:

Mine may have been a bad analogy but the point is still there and you are doing little to answer it by suggesting I was trying to change the point of the thread. You made the statement that it did not matter how many people 'voted'. Of course it does. Just the same as it matters if a small percentage of disgruntled IDNet users indicated that IDNet was the worst ISP.

And before you suggest that there are no disgruntled IDNet users, I really do suggest you take off those rose tinted spectacles. One only has to read through the IDNet Forum here in the past and you will find them. I don't support them. As I have said, I personally will not fault IDNet but I am not naive enough to believe that they never make errors and, I would suggest, neither would Simon although he does his level best to please everyone.

I thought your analogy was great. I was going to say the same thing but use a brand of car for my analogy, yours is far more poignant. Well done.
If it weren't for fanatical replies such as the "xyz are the best because we say so... oh and here's an obscure test result that proves us right" I probably wouldn't feel the need to have posted here.
I'm quite happy with what Idnet does for me, ok there are ups and downs but no one's perfect... despite what the fanboys tell you.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

Shocking post from a 'mod' that discredits the BBS.

I would have thought that you would be in London, protesting!

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work.

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

Shocking post from a 'mod' that discredits the BBS.

Why is it shocking?

Do the mods on these forums abdicate the right to fair comment about something that is nothing to do with their moderation responsibilities?

Not only that, but normally I would have expected you to agree with anyone posting that reply. You are certainly one of the people that knows the poster was talking bunkum, something which you often decry.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

In reply to a post by billford:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

Shocking post from a 'mod' that discredits the BBS.

Why is it shocking?

Do the mods on these forums abdicate the right to fair comment about something that is nothing to do with their moderation responsibilities?

They should do. The role of a mod is to moderate discussions, not to join in and antagonise with the sole aim of banning someone.

They should do. The role of a mod is to moderate discussions, not to join in and antagonise with the sole aim of banning someone.

Why? Do you run this forum? Do you have any administrative rulings over this forum? No. So if the moderators wish to pass a comment they are allowed to here, because they are also members of the forum.

In reply to a post by cavillas:

They should do. The role of a mod is to moderate discussions, not to join in and antagonise with the sole aim of banning someone.

Why? Do you run this forum? Do you have any administrative rulings over this forum? No. So if the moderators wish to pass a comment they are allowed to here, because they are also members of the forum.

In that case they should have a different non-mod ID they can use to join in discussions.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by cavillas:

They should do. The role of a mod is to moderate discussions, not to join in and antagonise with the sole aim of banning someone.

Why? Do you run this forum? Do you have any administrative rulings over this forum? No. So if the moderators wish to pass a comment they are allowed to here, because they are also members of the forum.

In that case they should have a different non-mod ID they can use to join in discussions.

But that is your opinion not necessarily shared by all. You can always start your own forum with your own rules.

In reply to a post by cavillas:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by cavillas:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

Why? Do you run this forum? Do you have any administrative rulings over this forum? No. So if the moderators wish to pass a comment they are allowed to here, because they are also members of the forum.

In that case they should have a different non-mod ID they can use to join in discussions.

But that is your opinion

That's right. All of my posts are my opinion.

The forum I most readily think of with non-posting mods is Digital Spy. I find it autocratic, people can get banned for asking why someone else got banned. Personally, I regard a contributing mod an advantage, providing they know when to step back. I've known Bill since we were both mods (wizops) in Compuserve days, 15+ years ago. He and I have always contributed to debate, but maintained a distance when necessary, if we are likely to have to moderate. YMMV.

In reply to a post by rikbean:

The forum I most readily think of with non-posting mods is Digital Spy. I find it autocratic, people can get banned for asking why someone else got banned.

People can get banned here for using a proxy.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

People can get banned here for using a proxy.

That was nearly a year ago, lifted within 12 hours and my error, for which I apologised.

Shame how some people are boorish enough to not accept an apology, bear a grudge and use it in false allegations.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

People can get banned here for using a proxy.

That was nearly a year ago, lifted within 12 hours and my error, for which I apologised.

Shame how some people are boorish enough to not accept an apology, bear a grudge and use it in false allegations.

False? It was just an example, but it really happened.

You used the word "can", which applies to the present.

False allegation.

In reply to a post by billford:

You used the word "can", which applies to the present.

False allegation.

Oh, so you can no longer get banned for using a proxy?

It's not normally a sufficient reason on its own, never has been. As I indicated.

But it can be a contributory factor.

Aren't we getting a little OT here?

This all started when Herr Neuhoff 'put his towel on the sunbed' as he usually does and it was recognised that he was, as usual, a little predicable ?

In reply to a post by Andrew_W:

Aren't we getting a little OT here?

This all started when Herr Neuhoff 'put his towel on the sunbed' as he usually does and it was recognised that he was, as usual, a little predicable ?

Now assuming your italicised word is a typo, you have a point.

However, if it isn't a typo it's quite interesting in the context .

No typo

As I expected. Otherwise there was no reason to italicise it.

> It's a nice sunny day here today, what's the weather like on your planet?

Blue here, with fluffy white clouds under which several back-haul providers offer wholesale service in the UK, including BE, Opal, C&W and Sky-Easynet.

Do you deny that IDNet could use any combination of these instead of BT Wholesale?

even more true then, why would a normal average joe user think to do a 'ping' test, but they don't even know what latency means.

I don't speak for IDNet, but my personal opinion is that of course they can. The problem, though, is that only BT offers a universal service, so it would mean continuing a contract with BT as well as any new carrier. I suspect this would have cost implications.

My pen has dried up, can I borrow yours

In reply to a post by rikbean:

I don't speak for IDNet, but my personal opinion is that of course they can. The problem, though, is that only BT offers a universal service, so it would mean continuing a contract with BT as well as any new carrier. I suspect this would have cost implications.

Quite .

As for the wholesalers list, as an example the wholesale price of Be is higher than their own retail price.

Also, bearing in mind the starting point of this little bit to silliness "The end user has a contract with the ISP, not with BT Wholesale or BT Openreach.It is the responsibility of the ISP to choose the right backhaul provider and to make sure things work", my view is it if the customer's responsibility to choose what seems to them to be the most suitable ISP for their purpose.

The vast majority buy one of the best-marketed products or follow the recommendations of sponsored comparison sites.

In reply to a post by rikbean:

The problem, though, is that only BT offers a universal service, so it would mean continuing a contract with BT as well as any new carrier. I suspect this would have cost implications.

I agree and presumably that is why, sadly, iDNet don't offer it. The only alternative that approaches the universality of BT is TalkTalk but I don't believe that all the TT enabled exchanges will necessarily allow an Opal/TT based wholesale service.

Nonetheless, Xilo seem to be able to make it pay. So far

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

The only alternative that approaches the universality of BT is TalkTalk but I don't believe that all the TT enabled exchanges will necessarily allow an Opal/TT based wholesale service.

Nonetheless, Xilo seem to be able to make it pay. So far

And vivaciti.

Though I haven't seen any hint from either of them of their wholesale contracts with TT Business Wholesale excluding any previously or recently enabled exchanges. What makes you think they do?

It is shocking because it is not fair comment, it is trolling Jeurgan.

IDNET were very clear that their recent problems were all down to BT Wholesale and that they were looking for alternative suppliers. At the time I just put this down to a minuscule provider's unprofessionalism.

However IDNET do not seem to have come up with alternative suppliers.

The referral operators that market here on ThinkBroadband appear to have no problems marketing alternative wholesalers.

So a less charitable punter may question why IDNET are not able to emulate these referral operators and offer more reliable services via altcos such as C@W or CPW..

Particularly when IDNET are one of the most expensive providers in the market.

ThinkBroadband moderator, Billford's trolling shows unequivalent behaviour against jeurgan's salient point and discredits the board's impartial adsl guide status in my view.

In this instance Jeurgan is correct. IDNET are perfectly able to choose altco wholesalers and punters of IDNET have a contract only with them not their wholesaler. pooh pooing this fact by a 'mod' simply discredits the impartiality of the BBS.

Edited by deleted (Mon 28-Mar-11 23:36:52)

Your neutrality, passion for the truth and concern for the reputation of this bbs give me a warm feeling.

Oh, hang on, that's from laughing so much, I'll be back shortly...

In reply to a post by rikbean:

but I don't believe that all the TT enabled exchanges will necessarily allow an Opal/TT based wholesale service.

Nonetheless, Xilo seem to be able to make it pay. So far

As soon as an exchange is live, we can order on it Just the same as with 21CN/FTTC on BT exchanges.

Matt

As one of the "referral operators" referred to by RJ earlier, how do the costs compare to BT?

They are actually very good.

Mbit pricing for the interconnect is good on a three tier system, depending on when used - which is something we're looking at taking advantage.

For the MPF side, base costs for the tail and base line rental are quite good too.

All in all, on a comparative basis, it is good and control over the ports as well as the monitoring that can be viewed per line from the kit, is amazing too.

Matt

Thanks for that Matt.

It's of limited use to me on an FTTC connection (unless TalkTalk can get their act together), but interesting nonetheless.

I've had one of the services before we even released it as a product and it performs very well (on an exchange that only has BT as an alternative), at 22Mb~.

Annex M should also be an addition to the service soon which is also quite interesting.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

at 22Mb~.

Even with BT's ever-to-be-damned DLM sticking its oar in I can get 30+Mbps on VDLS2, I don't want to go back to copper to the exchange

Edited by billford (Tue 29-Mar-11 01:42:13)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Though I haven't seen any hint from either of them of their wholesale contracts with TT Business Wholesale excluding any previously or recently enabled exchanges. What makes you think they do?

I tried one of the checkers - it may have been Xilo or possibly one on the Opal site and that reported that I couldn't get a service. It was a while ago so things may have changed.

Certainly I believe Xilo will be offering a hybrid service (= part unbundled) so people can keep their BT line. TBH, I doubt it would make a lot of difference speedwise to me, since my problems are almost certainly related to poor line quality (read lack of investment) through the village. And, from talking to others, I appear to have one of the better lines.

Nonetheless for a lot of people it could make a significant difference, which is why it is unfortunate that iDNet feel unable to offer it. A viable wholesale LLU service plus iDNet's quality of support would make an attractive offer provided it could be done at a value price. And, of course, profitably.

[EDIT] Just seen the post re Opal wholesale availability on all TT enabled exchanges. Thanks for the heads up Matt.

Edited by Tacitus (Tue 29-Mar-11 09:37:34)

A quite well-put argument, which (if correct) clearly shows that BT Total Broadband and Plusnet could also use these alternative wholesalers as well as BT Wholesale in order to provide a better, more reliable, service to a vast number of people.

Maybe I'll suggest that in their forums , quoting you.

I thought so too. ISTR Plusnet offering LLU via F2S...

ed - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/24/plusnet_tisc...

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Mar-11 10:23:15)

... Tiscali Wholesale, you mean.

Matt

Why would BT/Plusnet do that? Part of the reason PlusNet shifted all their lines back to a BTw service - they can't be seen paying for services from the competition, can they?

BT are behind their network and no doubt believe it is the best for all.

Matt

In reply to a post by uno:

... Tiscali Wholesale, you mean.

Matt

The article also mentions Easynet.

Yes but that was never offered to customers as a live product.

The Tiscali offering didn't go as they would have liked and had problems along the way.

Matt

In reply to a post by rikbean:

Scroll down this page:
http://netindex.com/quality/2,4/United-Kingdom/

They're rated top for Broadband Quality in the UK. About time too!

I can't even see Idnet on the list now.

In reply to a post by Kevin50:

I can't even see Idnet on the list now.

I suspect that says less about iDNet than about how many of their subscribers use that site.

Edited by Tacitus (Wed 27-Apr-11 08:40:25)

Apparently the selection criteria has just recently been changed so that we no longer have enough tests to qualify for a listing

You'd better start paying to advertise on the site .

Saw the thread title, scrolled to the end to say aye, couldn't agree more, nigh on 6 years in, happy chappy. If I want to save a fiver or a tenner a month, I'll drive at 50mph instead of 60 and probably save even more than that. I certainly wouldn't compromise on my ISP though, it's imperative I get the best available QOS 24/7 365.

Keep up the good work Simon et al.