Well, I suppose you could view it a bit like the standing charge on an energy bill.

On the other hand, mobile phone use doesn't require specific infrastructure for each separate customer: except our own phone, which we've presumably paid for personally if we're using PAYG. In that sense it's more like buying food: you shouldn't need a subscription to the supermarket to maintain their transport infrastructure, you should be able simply to pay for the food you intend to use, as you use it.

That pay-per-megabyte model seems to be available for data delivered direct to the phone screen; but when the data is routed to a computer, the rules appear to change. Which seems inconsistent: if the phone company were worried about overloading their system, surely they could simply throttle the data? After all, using BitTorrent on a phone is going to place a lot more strain on their resources than checking email via a desktop machine...

I don't think aaisp care how data is used as you're paying by KB or MB. EE works in the same way.

It's those that offer unlimited on handset (three) or those who offer high volume at very low price (BT mobile) that limit tethering.

Cost of handset has no income to network. You can buy handsets on Amazon diredt from Samsung, Htc, Apple etc.

Enough people have to pay regular amounts to fund the network or it won't exist. I don't personally believe in saying "that's someone else's problem".

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

So if my broadband doesn't go down this year, I'd be £29 out of pocket for zero data.

And if your car isn't involved in a crash you'll be rather more out of pocket because of the insurance premium.

Backup is insurance.

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

Yes, I looked into the EE ones, but unfortunately their PAYG doesn't seem to be what I mean by PAYG - i.e. it's buy a block of data which expires after 30 days, rather than pay by the MB for the data you use...

it means exactly what it means 30 day is normal

if you need a fire and forget sim the 12 month ones are the best option (or just get a 3 AYCE contract with 30GB of tethering data) but Not From ee or 3 website

In reply to a post by leexgx:

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

Yes, I looked into the EE ones, but unfortunately their PAYG doesn't seem to be what I mean by PAYG - i.e. it's buy a block of data which expires after 30 days, rather than pay by the MB for the data you use...

it means exactly what it means 30 day is normal

if you need a fire and forget sim the 12 month ones are the best option (or just get a 3 AYCE contract with 30GB of tethering data) but Not From ee or 3 website

As I mentioned earlier, one of the key bits of information is how much data does the OP use. How much does he need on a daily/weekly/monthly basis on his mobile? And how much would be needed in the event of an emergency, to keep the business and family going?

Without knowing these numbers, it is impossible to ever judge whether a "block" basis (where the price per MB is cheaper) is better than a "true PAYG" price per MB.

For me, the two numbers are wildly different. 100MB per week for normal usage is enough to make the "block" preferable to the PAYG. And emergency work usage can extend to a GB per day, making one (or more) of those 6GB pre-loaded SIMs a no-brainer - even if I only use 2GB of the data, it is cheaper than standard PAYG rates.

In practice, the 6GB SIMs never expire with data left on them. We will always find a use for them over the 90 days. If we used these bigger SIMs at a slower rate, then the 12-month one would be better.

A PAYG that expires after a month is not PAYG. It is a monthly contract.

It is only comparatively recently this scam was introduced. PAYG never used to expire, on any network. Though a few providers would terminate the number after a long time.

I still have an Orange Racoon PAYG which I left with a balance of 7p on it for over two years. Picked it up again with no problem when it became useful to do so.

Years ago I bought a phone with a forced included £10 Virgin PAYG SIM. Which I replaced immediately after it was registered with my own O2 SIM. Three or four years later it still had it's balance on and worked. Some time between then and last year it was ceased, so I just binned it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

A PAYG that expires after a month is not PAYG.

Your kind of PAYG still exists but is not in the networks interests for data. Voice and SMS is fine.

The problem with data is the sheer investment they are having to make, vastly outweighs previous investment, as the data volumes are increasing insanely on an annual basis. This has to be paid for somehow. Voice calls and SMS are not increasing - hence the plethora of networks offering unlimited talk/text and xx GB of data on a contract, either 30day or 12m.

Its the youngsters, those under 18, who cannot get a contract of any type, whom are driving this market - they are all using smartphones and want Instagram, Snapchat etc (most no longer use facebook I'm told). Photographs on these high resolution displays and video use a lot of data.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 22-Apr-16 12:47:57)

It's still a monthly, or whatever, contract if it expires after a fixed time. It isn't PAYG which by definition is pay (normally in advance) for what you use.

I've no objection to the products - just their invalid description. I admit I can't instantly think of what they could be called instead.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

The problem with data is the sheer investment they are having to make, vastly outweighs previous investment, as the data volumes are increasing insanely on an annual basis. This has to be paid for somehow.

If the issue is large data volumes, then surely this can be paid for very aptly by charging per MB - those who use large amounts of data will pay large amounts; those who use small amounts will pay small amounts, in exact proportion to usage.

As I pointed out, this isn't a situation where the provider has to install and maintain separate infrastructure for each user - the only individual hardware needed is the phone itself, for which (in the case of PAYG) the cost to the mobile company is zero.

In reply to a post by gordon_k:

If the issue is large data volumes, then surely this can be paid for very aptly by charging per MB - those who use large amounts of data will pay large amounts; those who use small amounts will pay small amounts, in exact proportion to usage.

On the other hand, those who pay for a monthly contract of XX GB per month allow the operator to plan for months ahead - both in income and on likely usage.

That stability allows the operator to offer the XX GB at a lower "per MB" cost.

The ad-hoc user, who only wishes to pay per MB as and when it suits him, becomes something of an un-planned (and unplannable) burden on the network. The operator has to build extra capacity "just in case" for users like this ... so justifying the higher "per MB" cost to these people.

As I pointed out, this isn't a situation where the provider has to install and maintain separate infrastructure for each user

They have to install enough capacity for all users ... and squeezing extra capacity out of the spectrum means more transceivers, and more masts. That isn't zero cost.

If an operator wants to meet the expectations of the customers (ie enough throughput when they want it), they need to keep adding infrastructure. Or they need to set the price "per MB" high enough to cause a reduction in usage.

The customers they don't want? The ad-hoc, PAYG ones again - so they get higher costs.