Strange problem with Virgin super hub

I've just had Virgin cable broadband installed and we're having a strange problem connecting to the wireless network. One laptop can connect fine, but the other one (they are actually identical) can't see the super hub for ages, even though it can see all the neighbours networks. When it finally sees the superhub it shows full signal strength and connects without any problems. What could be stopping it from seeing the super hub for so long?

DHCP range on the router set to 1 address? should be set to greater than the number of devices you have in your house..

DHCP works fine when the laptop has found the hub, the problem is it takes a long time to find it. Its as if one laptop can see the SSID broadcast but the other one can't for ages, even though it can see other networks, then suddenly it sees it and everything's OK.

Looking through the super hub's settings I see there's a separate guest network with different SSID, I'll try enabling that and see if it helps.

change wireless channel

Unplug it and replug...

Solves most SH issues

In reply to a post by _ben:

I've just had Virgin cable broadband installed and we're having a strange problem connecting to the wireless network. One laptop can connect fine, but the other one (they are actually identical) can't see the super hub for ages, even though it can see all the neighbours networks. When it finally sees the superhub it shows full signal strength and connects without any problems. What could be stopping it from seeing the super hub for so long?

The cause of the delay your laptop is waiting for the Super Hub router DHCP server to issue an IP address, so why not give your laptop a static IP address, then no waiting around for the DHCP server to issue an IP address. Just a small configuration needed to you router and laptops.

First configure your Super Hub router DHCP server range

Range Start 192.168.0.21
Range End 192.168.0.250

Then configure your laptops
Router IP address 192.168.0.1
(1)Laptop static IP address 192.168.0.6
(2)Laptop static IP address 192.168.0.251

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/19249/how-to-assign-a...

http://portforward.com/networking/staticip.htm

IP address is your laptop IP address: 192.168.0.6
Subnet mask: 255.255.255.0
Default gateway is your router IP address: 192.168.0.1
Preferred DNS server:
Alternate DNS server:

Sounds like the hub is set to hide its SSID, but the laptop already knows it.

The delay is while the laptop is connecting to the known hub, getting an IP addy and connecting to the Net.

In reply to a post by E7er:

The cause of the delay your laptop is waiting for the Super Hub router DHCP server to issue an IP address, so why not give your laptop a static IP address,

Just hides the problem and shouldn't be necessary.

Its definitely not DHCP related, the laptop can see all the neighbours networks and they aren't assigning it an IP address.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Sounds like the hub is set to hide its SSID, but the laptop already knows it.

It does sound like that, but the hub isn't set to hide its SSID, and in any case both laptops already know it.

In reply to a post by _ben:

Its definitely not DHCP related, the laptop can see all the neighbours networks and they aren't assigning it an IP address.

I apologise; I originally read your post incorrect thinking it was a wired Ethernet problem. I now read it as a wireless connection problem.

Try; configure the laptop with a static IP address for wireless, to see if it improves the connection.

I noticed a small programme on the �Port Forwarding� website, which enables the switch from static to dynamic with one click. This is ideal for laptop computers due to their portability. When at home use static, when using away from home switch to dynamic.

Warning
Watch-out for it wanting to load the rubbish tool bar trick un-check the selection.
http://www.portforward.com/store/Portforward-Setup-S...

http://portforward.com/networking/staticip.htm

Try disabling the wireless card, uninstalling it, deleting any current drivers and then installing using the latest driver set.
Has this laptop had problems with any other networks? Is the card capable of using the encryption level set by by the SH?

Edited by Deadbeat (Wed 17-Oct-12 21:05:51)

A static IP is NOT a suitable solution for a portable ccomputer and, as has already been said, it's hiding the problem not solving it.

Agreed! I never understand why E7er is so keen on promoting static IPs for all PCs everywhere. It's so non-portable, inflexible. unnecessary, onerous and unhealthy.

EDIT: Static IPs should just be needed where the PC acts as a server.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 18-Oct-12 00:13:38)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Agreed! I never understand why E7er is so keen on promoting static IPs for all PCs everywhere. It's so non-portable, inflexible. unnecessary, onerous and unhealthy.

EDIT: Static IPs should just be needed where the PC acts as a server.

I use static IP address(es) on my network, because it puts me in control of the network... not some willy-nilly DHCP server.

You have a static IP address on your network it�s your router, if you want to access your router you type in the static IP address at the browser address bar.

In reply to a post by E7er:

..... You have a static IP address on your network it�s your router, if you want to access your router you type in the static IP address at the browser address bar.

It's my router anyway and if I want to access it, I enter the IP of the gateway. Static IP's don't change that.

Static IP'ing is fair enough on a very large network where a map is needed to keep track of things. Even then, portable devices are allocated dynamic IP's but within a limited range.
It's simply not necessary and can lead to confusion on the average home network.

I put the router's IP in the Hosts file on my PCs, so I don't even have to remember the #s.

That's your preference and choice, but I don't see why you need to encourage ordinary home users, who may not be as computer-literate as you, to do the same, for the all reasons stated here.

A good few routers have their own name too for this exact reason, people remember names better than IP addresses (well some people anyway).

Static IP - I have used it for fixed machines where I would be port forwarding to, but for the general laptop/tablet/phone dynamic is the way to go.

If the DHCP is so slow in allocating an IP, then I would suggest the router has other issues too.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

In reply to a post by E7er:

..... You have a static IP address on your network it�s your router, if you want to access your router you type in the static IP address at the browser address bar.

It's my router anyway and if I want to access it, I enter the IP of the gateway. Static IP's don't change that.

I have saved my router Login page to Favorites.

Edited by deleted (Thu 18-Oct-12 16:04:34)

Under Win7, there's no need to do even that...... But, how many home users ever feel the need to access their router?

Edited by Deadbeat (Thu 18-Oct-12 18:56:57)

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

Try disabling the wireless card, uninstalling it, deleting any current drivers and then installing using the latest driver set.

OK, just tried this. I'd already updated the wireless card drivers but never thought to uninstall it first. We'll have to wait till the morning to see if it works as the problem only occurs when the laptop has been switched off for a while.

Has this laptop had problems with any other networks? Is the card capable of using the encryption level set by by the SH?

Never had any problems with other networks and it does connect to this network eventually, it just takes a long time to see it. As soon as it sees the network it connects straight away.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

A static IP is NOT a suitable solution for a portable ccomputer and, as has already been said, it's hiding the problem not solving it.

Of course it is, DHCP is for n00bs apparently

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

Under Win7, there's no need to do even that...... But, how many home users ever feel the need to access their router?

Not many, unfortunately, the nonsense "easy-setup" CDs even mean they never even go into the router for the initial config. Then, when they inevitably have an issue with their ADSL connection (because they are a novice), asking them to perform some basic diagnosis such as checking line stats is futile.

I am still convinced that an A4 sheet of paper with how to set up an ADSL router is easier than using the provided setup CDs.

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

..... I am still convinced that an A4 sheet of paper with how to set up an ADSL router is easier than using the provided setup CDs.

I'd second that, but unfortunately, the setup CD is just another symptom of "hands off" computing..... The move to put the computer in the "white goods" category.

In reply to a post by _ben:

..... Never had any problems with other networks and it does connect to this network eventually, it just takes a long time to see it. As soon as it sees the network it connects straight away.

Probably academic now that the drivers have been removed/reinstalled but were there any "similar" gateways listed under the remembered wireless networks?

In a very large and complex network, DHCP can and does present difficulties. I always use static addressing in such cases where each physical location or type of device etc is given a corresponding IP.
However, I generally leave a DHCP block for portable or "one off" devices. Allocating such a device a static IP from within it's own supplicant inevitably causes the owner problems later on.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

Under Win7, there's no need to do even that

How's that?

Double click "My Computer", click on "Network" and the router will be presented to you.

Ah, OK! Same as Vista but not XP. No big shakes!

Last week virgin replaced my separate router and modem with their new Superhub due to earlier kit running outside spec. I have had nothing but problems since. My download speeds are low and I have problems with both my wired and wireless conns dropping out. I have been unable to reconnect or reset. Two hours on the freephone (151) to virgin (India)yesterday afternoon on speed problems followed by further hour in eve to get me reconnected.

Then this eve exactly same problem with lost connection. One hour fifteen minutes this time for them to reconnect.

There is no doubt whatsoever they have serious problems with this hub and in particular they acknowledge a specific problem with certain Dell computers. I am hopping mad and exhausted with calls. All I can suggest is that every time you have a problem with Superhub then ring them on 151 and complain like hell. Only then will they realise they have many many very unhappy customers.

Ring 151.................

I suspect that it's more to do with the Dell proprietary supplicant rather than the Dell hardware. Using the native Windows supplicant often solves such problems.

Pardon me, but what is a supplicant? Would anyone but a networking guru know? I certainly never did and I am a computer geek

Do you mean the wireless networking stuff on the PC?

I think what they mean is to use the native windows configuration software, rather than the supplier based one which is sometimes prettier but fail in so many other ways

Mr S has it.
I thought that far from being geeky, "supplicant" was a well used and known term. Obviously, I was wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_supplicant

Edited by Deadbeat (Fri 19-Oct-12 02:10:56)

The superhub came out almost 2 years ago. It was a nightmare then and still is.

I used it and it frequently dropped my broadband. If I changed the SSID it would reset itself within a few hours back to default.

To get onto the WiFi I would very often require switching the superhub off and on. It would require a reboot most mornings as the WiFI would just break overnight.

The connection would always drop out too.
I had 5 engineers out before they let me leave. Every single engineer said it was the superhub and they're fed up to death of seeing issues related to it.

Any ISP that can continue supplying terrible hardware like this for several years is one I don't do business with.
Their V+ HD box used to always freeze during trying to get onto on demand too.

I used the modem years ago with my own router with no issues what so ever.

I'm back with Sky nowadays with a router that was plugged in behind a wardrobe and never needs a reboot. I have had over 3000 hours uptime with it before a powercut knocked it of.

The Sky box similarly is perfect.

I have to say these superhubs leave a lot to be desired. They are just not good enough for their job. I don't believe the superhub is incompatible with just DELL. I believe it makes a mess up of any connection. It needs constant reboots and is absolute junk.

Another thing with the superhub. If the power is knocked off for a split second, very often the superhub will not boot up properly.
Then there's the terrible range on it. It's shocking.

I would honestly rather suffer a 5 Mbps connection with BT or Sky with a router that worked fine and equipment that is perfect than have a super fast connection with terrible and very frustrating equipment.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 19-Oct-12 02:40:35)

I have only come across it in a religous ssnse.

Seems like the OP has to pray for it to work so maybe there's a connection.............. Or not on second thought.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

The superhub came out almost 2 years ago. It was a nightmare then and still is.

I used it and it frequently dropped my broadband. If I changed the SSID it would reset itself within a few hours back to default.

To get onto the WiFi I would very often require switching the superhub off and on. It would require a reboot most mornings as the WiFI would just break overnight.

The connection would always drop out too.
I had 5 engineers out before they let me leave. Every single engineer said it was the superhub and they're fed up to death of seeing issues related to it.

Any ISP that can continue supplying terrible hardware like this for several years is one I don't do business with.
Their V+ HD box used to always freeze during trying to get onto on demand too.

I used the modem years ago with my own router with no issues what so ever.

I'm back with Sky nowadays with a router that was plugged in behind a wardrobe and never needs a reboot. I have had over 3000 hours uptime with it before a powercut knocked it of.

The Sky box similarly is perfect.

I have to say these superhubs leave a lot to be desired. They are just not good enough for their job. I don't believe the superhub is incompatible with just DELL. I believe it makes a mess up of any connection. It needs constant reboots and is absolute junk.

Another thing with the superhub. If the power is knocked off for a split second, very often the superhub will not boot up properly.
Then there's the terrible range on it. It's shocking.

I would honestly rather suffer a 5 Mbps connection with BT or Sky with a router that worked fine and equipment that is perfect than have a super fast connection with terrible and very frustrating equipment.

Well said Sir. Totally agree. Virgin need to sort now or they will loose my a/c

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I think what they mean is to use the native windows configuration software, rather than the supplier based one which is sometimes prettier but fail in so many other ways

I've only used the windows configuration software, I don't think I even have a supplicant.

Removing the drivers before re-installing them didn't work either. It's odd that the laptop can see all the neighbours networks straight away but takes ages to find mine, it's also odd that the other laptop is fine despite them being identical. I'm tempted to re-install windows just in case it helps.

Boot from a WinPE CD before taking such drastic action. The Falcon4 UBCD should do just fine.

Edited by Deadbeat (Fri 19-Oct-12 18:56:55)

-Go into "manage wireless networks" and remove all entries out of there.
-Try changing wireless channel
-Try changing wireless mode (g only, mixed, etc, etc)
-Try changing encryption/security type
-Try changing any other settings!! (wireless afterburner, etc, etc)

The wireless system we use at work probably cost close to £100k and the troubleshooting process is still the same, "change lots o' settings 'till it works".

You may well find a reinstall of Windows cures the issue, but you might like to try with a live CD of some sort with wireless support first to see whether the issue is resolved.

Edited by Pipexer (Fri 19-Oct-12 18:57:55)

In reply to a post by _ben:

It's odd that the laptop can see all the neighbours networks straight away but takes ages to find mine,

Then the neighbours' networks should provide some clue as to why this is so. Use inSSIDer to compare them and note any differences, say in Security method.

Or you could try connecting & installing a different USB Wifi adapter if you have one handy to see if the existing one is causing the issue...

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Oct-12 20:34:46)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Then the neighbours' networks should provide some clue as to why this is so. Use inSSIDer to compare them and note any differences, say in Security method.

Well that was interesting, but all my neighbours networks look the same - WPA2 Personal, max rate 144, Netgear - in fact all the neighbours are using virgin hubs like me. I'm on channel1, there are a couple of others on channel6 and one on channel11, so it looks like it's picked the right channel. Not sure that its really got me anywhere though.

Your post is unclear; have you tried changing the setting or are you assuming the world is perfect and that because it is on channel 1 and your neighbour's are on channel 6 and 11 and have the same encryption type that those settings are absolutely not causing a problem?

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

Your post is unclear; have you tried changing the setting or are you assuming the world is perfect and that because it is on channel 1 and your neighbour's are on channel 6 and 11 and have the same encryption type that those settings are absolutely not causing a problem?

I'd already tried changing things like encryption settings. I haven't changed the channel yet, and as the other channels are in use locally channel 1 seems the best place to be, but to investigate the problem I'll change channel tonight and see how the laptop connects in the morning.

Just as a thought... with most routers I've used (though I'm not with Virgin), if I let them auto-select the wireless channel they settle for channel 1 and usually give problems at various times.

If I manually set them to channel 1 they work fine... go figure, but it might be worth a try!

(On 2.4GHz I now usually use channel 4, but that's specific to my environment)

Well manually changing channels seems to have done the trick (thanks to all who suggested it), so I'll try manually putting it back to channel 1 now and see if it still works.

Edit: Manually putting the hub back to channel 1 causes the problem to return, so I guess its channel 1 that the laptop has a problem with. I still don't understand why it takes ages to see the network and then works fine after a while, but at least we have a solution now, even if it does mean using the same channel as the neighbours. Thanks again to everyone who helped.

Edited by deleted (Sat 20-Oct-12 16:53:50)

Don't forget that if you are with Virgin you get free phone calls to their tech services (in India). 151 will get you there. Be prepared for a long call but they have the responsibility for sorting their Superhub problems.

If enough people use this 'help' line then Virgin might just get the message about Superhub !