Xilo & Be wholsale products

Is it possible to migrate from be retail to a BE wholesale product, The reason that i ask is that from info that i have ,this isn't possible as yet, or has that situation now changed ,?

If Mat when he gets the chance could clarify what the situation is that would be good, for many out there who may be in the process of migrating or are considering doing so

Its should also be free until April 30th

Current Flying Start offer from Bewholesale.

The promotion offers resellers and wholesalers free connections on all new orders and migrations from February 1st to April 30th, 2012....The saving on each connection is worth approximately £40 and BE Wholesale is also offering partners marketing support and advice to help them maximise the benefits of the offer over the coming months.
http://www.bewholesale.co.uk/news/2012/02/make-a-fly...

In reply to a post by HighBeta:

Its should also be free until April 30th

Current Flying Start offer from Bewholesale.

The promotion offers resellers and wholesalers free connections on all new orders and migrations from February 1st to April 30th, 2012....The saving on each connection is worth approximately £40 and BE Wholesale is also offering partners marketing support and advice to help them maximise the benefits of the offer over the coming months.
http://www.bewholesale.co.uk/news/2012/02/make-a-fly...

It would be nice , but some how i don't see that saving being passed on to the customer,

The other resellers ( both dasiy & Entanet based) are...

tommy45,

Moving between Be Retail and BT Wholesale is fine. Be Wholesale use vlans for the large part. The traffic just gets pointed down a different vlan.

We are in the process of moving about a dozen Be Retail customers already this week to our Family Unlimited (Be Wholesale based) which can be found at http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php

It would be nice , but some how i don't see that saving being passed on to the customer

We opted to give free activation/migration ourselves before this offer was launched by Be. We also throwing in 2 free months service as well.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

tommy45,

Moving between Be Retail and BT Wholesale is fine. Be Wholesale use vlans for the large part. The traffic just gets pointed down a different vlan.

We are in the process of moving about a dozen Be Retail customers already this week to our Family Unlimited (Be Wholesale based) which can be found at http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php

So this type of migration isn't the same as a new connection, as in moved to a different port /line card , everything stays as is at the exchange ? I was also under the impression that the backhaul was different to be retail, i know that the peering is totally different

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 07-Mar-12 19:33:24)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

So this type of migration isn't the same as a new connection, as in moved to a different port /line card , everything stays as is at the exchange ? I was also under the impression that the backhaul was different to be retail, i know that the peering is totally different

I can only speak for for our Be products (used for getting on 12 months or so now) but everyone i know is using Be Wholesale products, everyone has similar setup to us...ie: VLAN based (though i know Be offer VLAN and realming termination options).

The actual port/line card is not changed (downtime is about 10 mins) with the vlan handling the backhaul routes to where the termination of SPs LNS's are located. Peering as you say is different to Be Retail as ISPs have their own transit arrangements.

I'm sure there will exceptions though with companies taking from Be Wholesale in different ways, in a similar way to how BT offer various solutions.

OK done some maths on this and with the 2 mths free and free migration offer it on comparison works out at just under another reseller's price (Pro Annex M ) over a 12mth period
I have some questions after visiting your web site

Is the offer available on a monthly contract ?

What are the ways to pay you , direct debit?

Do you Filter or censor anything IE( IWF ) ect, which has frequently caused several cyber lockers to be incorrectly blocked or block any ports ?

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 08-Mar-12 20:17:47)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

I have some questions after visiting your web site

Is the offer available on a monthly contract ?

What are the ways to pay you , direct debit?

Do you Filter or censor anything IE( IWF ) ect, which has frequently caused several cyber lockers to be incorrectly blocked or block any ports ?

Hi Tommy,

These questions are actually answered on our web site at http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-unlimited.php. Apologises if there not clear.

We offer both a 12 month contract and 1 month contract option. The offer can apply to both. Please see web site though (Q&A point 2) for details regarding 1 month contract.

Direct debit is not currently offered. Standing Orders or BACS are similar options.

We do no filtering and blocking of sites, including non use of services such of IWF.

Thank's for taking the time to reply here, Just to be clear on the point of 1 month conrtacts, Is this the question that you referred to >

I'm not a fan of long term contracts, are there any arrangements we can come to?

In which your answer was

Yes. A 12 month contract is the default option, however, if you would rather have a 1 month minimum contract, this can be arranged via a one-off upfront £49.95 fee at the start of the contract.

But as you are currently offering 2months free + free line activation or migration
This would suggest that currently this would be free for both 12mth and monthly contracts , as no where on the promotional add for the offer does it indicate that there would be charges relating to inbound migrations,
So why point to Q2, when in the Small print section below it also would appear that no charges exist for migration , the only charges are £30 cease fee and £ 79.95 house move

The Small Print and Highlighted Key Facts

The following section is a little more technical, but fear not, if you are unsure of any of the contents, please do get in touch with our customer services team. We are always only to happy to help translate this into understandable context.

The inbound migration (joining Aquiss) charge from a current BT based broadband service to the Aquiss Family Unlimited broadband range is £0.00 (one-off). Migration from a non BT based broadband service (known as a LLU service) will be chargeable at £0.00 (one-off). An internal product range change, where moving from another Aquiss product range to the Aquiss Family Unlimited broadband range, will be subject to a £0.00 (one-off) charge. Activation of broadband on a telephone line where no broadband currently exists will be chargeable at £0.00 (one-off). Ceasing the broadband service in full (no outbound migration) will be subject to a £30.00 (one-off) Broadband Cease Charge and the settlement of any remaining months of the minimum contract (if applicable), otherwise migrating away from Aquiss via the use of a valid MAC Key that we supply, will not be charged a Broadband Cease Charge, however the settlement of any remaining months of the minimum contract (if applicable) is expected. Moving the broadband service to another property (house move) will be subject to a £79.95 one-off charge.

All prices include VAT unless otherwise stated and are shown in GBP. E & OE.

it may be an error on your web site, but you should i think ensure that the info given is upto date and accurate ,of else you could get accused of mis leading or mis selling , and those that may do this could have grounds to end up not paying the fees Source of the info Aquiss

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 09-Mar-12 19:10:49)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

But as you are currently offering 2months free + free line activation or migration
This would suggest that currently this would be free for both 12mth and monthly contracts , as no where on the promotional add for the offer does it indicate that there would be charges relating to inbound migrations.

We have signed up literally hundreds of customers since the start of the current offer and no one, as far as we know, has read the context of our web site in the way you have. We also asked our community to check the wording and not one expressed concerns you appear to be raising.

We clearly state (or needs to be clearer from what your saying) that we offer all customers free migration or free activation + 2 months free service. By default we do this over a 12 month contract or make a charge if the customer wants a 1 month contract, but we still honour the free migration/activation and included free months (if applicable). At no point are we charging for an inbound migration (which you believe we are).

At point of sale all costs will be presented. A pre-sales customer, if there not happy can discontinue the ordering process. All we are doing are trying to supply what we feel is a fair service, with options for those interested. I believe your looking for catches and problems where we are not trying to produce any. If you don't trust what we are quoting or doing, then I honestly recommend you look at alternatives.

Added Later
I would like to add that we have spent and continue to spend large amounts of time to make as much as we can as clear and bold as we can. Many pages have been altered to include clear and easy to read common Question and Answers. We are phasing out small print bit by bit. Your comments this evening clearly show that we have a bit more work to do to get that final polished effort completed, however I do feel we are taking large steps recently. We have already phased in ASA rules that come into force from April. We have included expected performance sync ranges for well over 12 months and have streamlined the web site to try and make it as easy to understand for readers.

Edited by aquiss (Fri 09-Mar-12 20:07:27)

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

But as you are currently offering 2months free + free line activation or migration
This would suggest that currently this would be free for both 12mth and monthly contracts , as no where on the promotional add for the offer does it indicate that there would be charges relating to inbound migrations.

We have signed up literally hundreds of customers since the start of the current offer and no one, as far as we know, has read the context of our web site in the way you have. We also asked our community to check the wording and not one expressed concerns you appear to be raising.

We clearly state (or needs to be clearer from what your saying) that we offer all customers free migration or free activation + 2 months free service. By default we do this over a 12 month contract or make a charge if the customer wants a 1 month contract, but we still honour the free migration/activation and included free months (if applicable). At no point are we charging for an inbound migration (which you believe we are).

At point of sale all costs will be presented. A pre-sales customer, if there not happy can discontinue the ordering process. All we are doing are trying to supply what we feel is a fair service, with options for those interested. I believe your looking for catches and problems where we are not trying to produce any. If you don't trust what we are quoting or doing, then I honestly recommend you look at alternatives.

Added Later
I would like to add that we have spent and continue to spend large amounts of time to make as much as we can as clear and bold as we can. Many pages have been altered to include clear and easy to read common Question and Answers. We are phasing out small print bit by bit. Your comments this evening clearly show that we have a bit more work to do to get that final polished effort completed, however I do feel we are taking large steps recently. We have already phased in ASA rules that come into force from April. We have included expected performance sync ranges for well over 12 months and have streamlined the web site to try and make it as easy to understand for readers.

OK so in the most basic terms
A customer who wishes to migrate(with a valid MAC & whilst the offer is on )from their current isp on to one of the family unlimited products (be wholesale) but does not wish to be tied to a 12mth contract chooses the 1 month option,

Would they be charged a up front fee of £49.95 or not ?

As the way i see it or it reads to me is somewhat conflicting

in the small print it says fee of £0.00 ,

offer add also suggests no upfront fee payable,

But your Q &A section, answer to Q2 does suggest that the fee of £49.95 would apply

As for looking for catches ,no i wasn't

But if the upfront fee will be payable to those wishing to take advantage of the current promotion who don't want a 12th contract then that could be a little clearer or the relevant info included on the promotion it's self that's all

Just had a look and it seems simple to me.

12 months contract you get 2 free months and free line activation\migration
1 month contract you get 2 free months and free line activation\migration, but pay a one of charge £49.95

In reply to a post by Kimi:

Just had a look and it seems simple to me.

12 months contract you get 2 free months and free line activation\migration
1 month contract you get 2 free months and free line activation\migration, but pay a one of charge £49.95

And what does this £49.95 fee represent if it's not a connection /activation or setup fee, ? all are the same thing

Be wholesale is running a offer to the wholesalers consisting of 2mths free and free activation /migration therefore it should apply to both 1 month and 12mth contracts why because most resellers only offer monthly contracts,

This fee i would think would only apply if no promotional offer was in place , but it is this point that i would like clarification on, IMO if the fee stands then they (aquiss) aren't passing those savings they gained from be wholesale on to all new customers.

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 10-Mar-12 12:51:52)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

And what does this £49.95 fee represent if it's not a connection /activation or setup fee, ? all are the same thing

Be wholesale is running a offer to the wholesalers consisting of 2mths free and free activation /migration therefore it should apply to both 1 month and 12mth contracts why because most resellers only offer monthly contracts,

I would imagine the fee for 1 month contracts would be to stop people getting free broadband for 2 months then moving to another wholesale provider and getting another 2 months free etc etc.

Seems fair to me.

In reply to a post by Kimi:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

And what does this £49.95 fee represent if it's not a connection /activation or setup fee, ? all are the same thing

Be wholesale is running a offer to the wholesalers consisting of 2mths free and free activation /migration therefore it should apply to both 1 month and 12mth contracts why because most resellers only offer monthly contracts,

I would imagine the fee for 1 month contracts would be to stop people getting free broadband for 2 months then moving to another wholesale provider and getting another 2 months free etc etc.

Seems fair to me.

But they still would get 2 mths bb for £50 , and in any case this doesn't cost the isp as be wholesale are not charging for it , but surely the only cost they may incur would be a cease fee should they not migrate out ,

I think that should this fee still stand then it's an unfair penalty for not wanting to be tied into a 12mths contract with a company that you know little about,or how good or bad the choice of service that you select will work out for you ,

But if you think about it, if all aspects of the service are good, then customers on monthly contract will most likely stay with them,(I know that i would) it's only those who are not happy with the service who will leave , generally speaking ,

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 10-Mar-12 14:36:32)

Looks like Xilo are being coy about not passing on the Bewholesale offer.

The other daisy reseller adsl24 if passing the offer on

http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/?offer=specialoffer

In reply to a post by HighBeta:

Looks like Xilo are being coy about not passing on the Be wholesale offer.

The other daisy reseller adsl24 if passing the offer on

http://adsl24.co.uk/broadband/home/?offer=specialoffer

Xilo are being coy about whether they are able to offer the be wholesale service to existing customers of be/o2 or not too
But ADSL24 is not offering the 2months FREE Vivaciti only doing free connect/activation also, (but was doing so before the be wholesale announcement )

No in my book unless they are passing on both 2 free months and set up /activation /connection or whatever they wish to call what is a connection fee, then they are failing to pass on the saving to the customer so matter how they want to dress it up, if any of them want my business then i would expect both on a monthly contract ,
I look at it this way on any monthly contract it's really 2mths min term as they all require 30 days notice and would normally bill for this , So it's an opportunity to see how good or bad
the be wholesale service is, plus the other aspects such as peering ect
along with customer service and tech support (should it be needed)
Should someone not be happy with the new service then at least it hasn't cost them to find out i would see this offer as an opportunity to increase the customer base and would pass both on to new customers instead of only part of the offer

tommy45,

I have read the last few of your posts and need to correct what I believe is a belief on your part that BE Wholesale are offering stuff which ISPs are not passing on. BE Wholesale have recently indeed started to offer a free activation/migration to partners (started feb and ends April). They are NOT offering any free months. Any ISPs doing other things are doing it themselves, within their own marketing concepts.

Our deal, was done off our own back, started in December of last year (we swollowed costs ourselves). We also have no plans to phase this out in April. Our deals therefore goes beyond what BE Wholesale is supplying to market.

It has be said, just like with BT, ISPs can take wholesale costs from Be and package these up as they see fit. ISPs don't have to pass savings on in a consistant manner. We all have different business plans, costs, market penetration etc that will be factored in.

Edited by aquiss (Sat 10-Mar-12 15:32:35)

In reply to a post by aquiss:

I have read the last few of your posts and need to correct what I believe is a belief on your part that BE Wholesale are offering stuff which ISPs are not passing on. BE Wholesale have recently indeed started to offer a free activation/migration to partners (started feb and ends April). They are NOT offering any free months. Any ISPs doing other things are doing it themselves, within their own marketing concepts.

I hold my hands up on that my mistake,im sorry, yes you are correct they are only offering the free connection .activation and not the 2 free months

I have 2 questions for you based on the scenario below
A new customer who signs up to a monthly contract with you ( All be wholesale products )
Would they :

1, Get a free connection /activation/migration ?

2 , Also get the 2months free that you are currently offering ?

Simple yes or no answers will suffice

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 10-Mar-12 16:03:42)

I really don't understand where you're coming from on this, all the prices and any fees are crystal clear on their web site. Different companies have different products to offer and they try to sell at a price that gives them the best profit, keep customers and also bring in new customers. If they get this wrong they have to look at pricing again, it can be a fine line.

If what you see is not for you then look else where until you find one that does suit you.

Someone as good as tommy at picking holes in other companies pricing structures, methods,(Resellers), and infrastructure/support failings, (Be Retail), should surely be able to make a fortune setting up a superior vISP of his own.

There's plenty of one-man Enta resellers, and once started then adding in Be Wholesale and TalkTalk Business Wholesale can't be so difficult to a bright spark with go and guts.

I have to jump to the defence of tommy45 here. He has a goon knack or reading what is actually said rather than what is intended - not saying he is 100% right though.

I recongise the same skill that I have. 2 small examples:- in my single days before meter reading were done in the evening, I got a letter from my electricity co to say they had tried to read my meter 3 times and if I refuswed they could break in to read it. I phoned them and made it quite clear I was not refusing. I was just not going to take 1/2 a day off work unless they would pay me (I'm a dentist). I must have got one of the first evening readings in the UK.

Solicitors' letters, when asking for a report always end with "We promise to be responsible for your reasonable fee". Who can tell me what this *really* means - your chance to shine tommy .

DrT

In reply to a post by DrTeeth:

I have to jump to the defence of tommy45 here. He has a goon knack or reading what is actually said rather than what is intended - not saying he is 100% right though.

I recongise the same skill that I have. 2 small examples:- in my single days before meter reading were done in the evening, I got a letter from my electricity co to say they had tried to read my meter 3 times and if I refuswed they could break in to read it. I phoned them and made it quite clear I was not refusing. I was just not going to take 1/2 a day off work unless they would pay me (I'm a dentist). I must have got one of the first evening readings in the UK.

Solicitors' letters, when asking for a report always end with "We promise to be responsible for your reasonable fee". Who can tell me what this *really* means - your chance to shine tommy .

DrT

The wording We promise to be responsible for your reasonable fee To me would depend on what they decided was reasonable, rather than what i or other would deem to be, So i would say it means very little

Also it isn't very concise as they do not actually state that they will pay what they consider to be a reasonable fee, they use the word responsible instead

I would query such letter and ask for a translation (put it into layman's terms) so to speak
Interestingly i too had issues with the gas company because the previous tenant moved without paying them, they where wanting to fit a prepay meter as i refused to give them a security deposit, they arranged for a fitter to call, he never showed, so they thought it would be ok to arrange another visit, until i said fine you can fit whatever meter you want, but i will expect paying a days pay, plus paying for the day they failed to turn up, they wouldn't agree, end result credit meter left in, thats 11 yrs ago

Aquiss 2 Is another reason why i questioned this offer, it's open to interpretation

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 11-Mar-12 14:25:18)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

The wording "We promise to be responsible for your reasonable fee" To me would depend on what they decided was reasonable, rather than what i or other would deem to be, So i would say it means very little

Yes you are part way there in spotting that they would decide if my fee were reasonable. Being 'responsible' also does not mean prompt payment. They could be 'responsible' for years.

Since first reading the "We promise..." guff, I ask for my fee in advance .

Like the way you dealt with the gas board...I'd do the same.

Enough of this OT fan club .

DrT

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Aquiss 2 Is another reason why i questioned this offer, it's open to interpretation

Please elaborate? It's useful to understand where our message is being lost in translation. Any misinterpretation is not what we aimed for.

Clearly though you have a slight trust issue with us / our offer at present. That's not going to be a good thing for a long term customer/business relationship. I'm taking all notes and constructive points on board. We will look to see if we can improve things further, but in the meantime, I can only recommend excluding ourselves from you purchasing decision.

In reply to a post by aquiss:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Aquiss 2 Is another reason why i questioned this offer, it's open to interpretation

Please elaborate? It's useful to understand where our message is being lost in translation. Any misinterpretation is not what we aimed for.

Clearly though you have a slight trust issue with us / our offer at present. That's not going to be a good thing for a long term customer/business relationship. I'm taking all notes and constructive points on board. We will look to see if we can improve things further, but in the meantime, I can only recommend excluding ourselves from you purchasing decision.

You interestingly mention Trust isn't that something that one has to earn from another fellow human being ,Although i suppose to a certain degree reputation can have some influence too, but i have seen very little good or bad about Aquiss to form any conclusion on ,

I through out my life have learned one thing trust nothing or no one more than i have to,
Until they prove they are worthy of my trust, it's the way i am, and being somewhate prudent or cautious has paid dividends in the past , in particular where finacial agreements are concerned



Eleboration : firstly start page give info in a gerneral fashion of the current offer's of Free mirgation/atcivation (aka connection fee) and 2 months free , which i have no problem with it's fine click and open Home broadband packages box, opens the same page as per above screen shot , now i looking at "Family Unlimited Broadband Range" option it clearly gives the following detail 1 Mth conract option free avtivation/migration from 20 per month

So now so far it reads that i can select one of those not have to pay any connection related fees as i would be migrating in,if i then open the box to reveal the next page, again i see the same 2 mths free offer including the free migration that the previous pages

I take this to mean That both would apply it's only when i scroll down to the questions and answers it get's a bit cloudy and contradictory, as that answer could mean out of offer customers would be charged this fee, which should be made clear that it's a connection fee( assuming that it is a connection fee) in the first place, as in the current form it doesnt indicate what it's for

Was why i asked you in broad basic english and asked for a simple yes or no answer to those two qeustions in order from me to be clear on it, as finding out only during the sign up process is not what i would expect to see if i'm going to be penalised and have to pay a fee to migrate because i don't wish to commit to a 12 mths contract, I would like confirmation of any charges before i start to sign up

Background slightly ot

There is a few bad things out there about Entanet which i see is a key player here as it will be their network that the be wholesale service will use presumably although are quite old now 2009 i think several resellers stopped using them ,


I could understand if the offer of the 2 free month did not apply to a monthly contract but the connection fee should not be charged if you claim to be passing on the be wholesale offer of a free mirgation ect,

So it's still unclear if i would be charged a fee to mirgate on to a be wholesale product with a monthly contract ,

If you would charge a mirgation fee for be products with a monthly contract then

you are not passing the savings on as you first claimed to be doing on this forum,
And for the record, i have nothing again you or your company , if i found similar else where i would point that out too ,

So there you are i have eleborated for you i hope it is of some help,

will you now answer the 2 questions to clear this up ?

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 11-Mar-12 17:42:29)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

I could understand if the offer of the 2 free month did not apply to a monthly contract but the connection fee should not be charged if you claim to be passing on the be wholesale offer of a free mirgation ect,

So it's still unclear if i would be charged a fee to mirgate on to a be wholesale product with a monthly contract ,

If you would charge a mirgation fee for be products with a monthly contract then

you are not passing the savings on as you first claimed to be doing on this forum,
And for the record, i have nothing again you or your company , if i found similar else where i would point that out too ,

So there you are i have eleborated for you i hope it is of some help,

will you now answer the 2 questions to clear this up ?

I have already made it clear in a previous post that ISPs can take saving given at wholesale level and present these to customers in different ways. To be clear, if a customer would like a one month contract offer with us, presently there will be a charge of £49.95. This covers cost we are getting charged commercially at the wholesale level (your presuming our costs are the same).

I'm personally drawing back from this thread. As promised I will take all your points onboard and structure some changes where we can upon our web site.

Edited by aquiss (Sun 11-Mar-12 18:07:05)

In reply to a post by aquiss:

To be clear, if a customer would like a one month contract offer with us, presently there will be a charge of £49.95. This covers cost we are getting charged commercially at the wholesale level (your presuming our costs are the same).

So the charge stands ,ok fair enough, a bit unfair on those who only wanted a monthly contract in particular whilst be wholesale are supposed to be covering the migration charges regardless of min term as said i could understand you not including the 2 mths free on short term contracts but IMO as the be wholesale offer is on the connection should be free on both 1 month and 12 month contracts of the be wholesale products

In reply to a post by aquiss:

I'm personally drawing back from this thread. As promised I will take all your points onboard and structure some changes where we can upon our web site.

I'm sorry that you feel you need to do this , but thank you anyway

Just can't help yourself can you?

If you want to be back on the easynet network then go with sky otherwise please stop harassing others with your old gits methods of finding fault.

The broadband market is large and caters to many tastes. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be able to cater to your exact taste. As has been suggested before become a reseller,/ ISP and put your money where your mouth is.

My opinion is that you are looking to join aquiss so they will sort out your connection then you can leave again having paid the minimum in fees. I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot barge pole.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Just can't help yourself can you?

If you want to be back on the easynet network then go with sky otherwise please stop harassing others with your old gits methods of finding fault.

The broadband market is large and caters to many tastes. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be able to cater to your exact taste. As has been suggested before become a reseller,/ ISP and put your money where your mouth is.

My opinion is that you are looking to join aquiss so they will sort out your connection then you can leave again having paid the minimum in fees. I wouldn't touch you with a ten foot barge pole.

Oh so you think i was wrong to seek clarification on something do you?
As for fixing my line issues simply by moving to a be wholesale service, that ain't gonna make any difference as i'm convinced the be exchange kit line card/tie pair are at fault or even the connection of the tie pair it's self , after the 1st bungled attempt during migration , i wouldn't be at all surprised , No i will have to move away from Be (telefonica)completely, As for moving to sky ,lol i don't think so, maybe their fiber offering will be worth considering ,providing fast path is an option of course, as it is not on their ADSL