Xilo will not issue refund or reply to correspondence

From Xilo's website: "We aim to answer all support tickets within 60 minutes during office hours and 8 hours outside of these times."

I placed an order for broadband on 6 March which I cancelled on 9 March under distance selling regulations. The broadband was to be activated on 14 March. Xilo accepted my cancellation on 11 March and confirmed this by email 12 March.

I have raised several email and support ticket enquiries with Xilo asking for repayment of the £62.99 I paid them for this service. My last communication from Matt at Xilo was on 12 March when he asked for more time to look into the matter.

I have been patient, however as the delivery date was the 14 March, in my view the company should have either gone ahead with performance of the contract (if they believed that I did not have the right to cancel) or given that they had accepted my cancellation, repaid the price.

Section 14(3) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 states "The supplier shall make the reimbursement referred to in paragraph (1) as soon as possible". Given that I cancelled on the 9th, confirmed this on the 'phone on the 11th, received email acceptance of the cancellation on the 12th, and was to have the service installed on the 14th I cannot see why the company would ignore my correspondence and not issue this refund.

I believe I have no recourse except through the Courts. I have prepared a summary cause action and intimated to Xilo via the ticket system and email that I would be commencing proceedings tomorrow morning if I had not heard a reply by close of business today. Xilo have disabled my access to the online ticket system so I cannot see if they have replied. This is fair enough as I am no longer a customer, however I have not received any email or calls to say I will be refunded.

I shall be raising an action in my local Court tomorrow morning, and cannot comment here while the matter is sub judice. However I thought others may be interested in hearing how this company deals with refunds as I have read on two seperate websites complaints about Xilo not refunding in a timely manner.

http://www.whoishostingthis.com/hosting-reviews/xilo/
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/otherisp/t/4155628-...

I look forward to the opportunity to present this matter to the Court and learn whether the Distance Selling Regulations do indeed apply to broadband service providers, and how the requirement to reimburse "as soon as possible" will be interpreted. I intend to update the community here and elsewhere after the litigation is concluded.

You're again posting incorrect information.

You sent us an email on Sunday - you had a reply within 60 minutes of raising this.

I will be updating that again soon regarding this post.

Matt

I can't believe XILO management have allowed to continue for the length of time it has.

It costs them more than £62.99 for their staff to investigate and dispute the refund. In addition, when compounded with the reputation damage on this forum, I can only say this is a poorly managed situation.

I'd say the impact on reputation from this forum alone could be costing them more than £62.99.

But hey what do I know?

small claims court it however publicizing a soon to be legal matter is not helping either party

You mean like this: Serious Fraud Office to investigate Autonomy, says HP?

All I can say is that if there is question of goodwill being shown by xilo in this matter, which if you had just waited I would be almost sure would have been demonstrated - whatever the legal position, if I was in charge there then unless the case for a refund is rock solid legally I'd now be telling you to get stuffed.

For heaven's sake, it's a mere six working days since you cancelled the order and you've already been making several stinks on these forums. Threatening legal action already? Very odd.

As for credit card refunds within six working days - how many companies do that? Many smaller ones have a monthly job for that, not an automated process linked to the ordering system.

I have been with Xilo for about 4 years and at the time of making the enquiry i thought they were excellent but then again they did not have my custom .

Now i think my broadband connection has been excellent but i will say on the various times i have had a few issues be it Xilo end or some other issue then when i ring up there technical support i find them disinterested as if I'm wasting their time.

They don't seem that helpful and i find the website one complicated chore to navigate around and there website design needs a complete overhaul and needs to be more user friendly and some of the guys who answer the phone need training on a customer cares side of things.

We are not all Broadband savvy and know all the technical jargon that goes with it and a bit more help and consideration when its needed would be helpful.

Seems Xilo lately are falling from grace as there seems to be a few disenchanted customers appearing on this forum not entirely happy with there service and customer support.

Sorry to hear this. We're a small company, and maybe this is part of some growing pains - largely though, we don't hear from many unhappy customers.

We are hear, we are receptive - if you've got any concerns, get in touch with me, lets talk about them and see what we can do to put them right.

We're techies at heart so fully appreciate your comments - we'll see what we can do to make support a bit more huggable and friendly but don't ever feel like you're wasting our time as you're certainly not.

Matt

You can't believe? Are you sure? It's less than a week!

Good look to tblackwood trying to take this to court - for £62.99 that's at best 2 or 3 days overdue.

When I called to confirm my cancellation the Xilo representative stated that the distance selling regulations do not apply to broadband providers, and therefore I was not entitled to cancel without penalty. I now understand that Matt is a director of the company, and yet he has asked for more time to enquire into whether contracts he makes in the course of his business are indeed covered by such regulations.

I would have thought that a company which has been trading for several years should understand which regulations apply to the contracts they enter on a routine basis, and therefore should not advise that statutory rights do not apply without their being sure of their basis for this assertion.

Matt emailed me on Monday evening to advise that my posts on this forum (but interestingly not the matter of whether I am entitled to a refund) are being dealt with by his solicitor. In addition, he has stated that unless I remove my posts within 24 hours he will instruct his solicitor to raise a claim against me.

In English law, a person who republishes a defamatory communication can also be found liable in damages. I would be interested to hear what the site owner / administrator thinks of an ISP member using legal threats in response to perceived criticism. I would consider that this could have a chilling effect on free speech and legitimate criticism of business practices by consumers. What would be the purpose of this site if members could not post their experiences in dealing with ISPs?

This is the second time I have received communications from Matt asking me to remove material I have posted to this site.

Matt did not state which parts of my post he considers incorrect or defamatory. Indeed I do hope that he does refer this matter to a solicitor who can advise him of whether he is obliged to give a refund and whether truthful but critical comments on a website would give rise to a defamation action.

The Deformation Bill is being considered by parliament now.

Libel Reform Campaign - Free Speech Is Not For Sale

Actually to once again correct you, if you review the message posted 35 minutes after message on Sunday, which have have incorrectly stated has not been responded to, you will see there is a detailed response covering this.

If you choose to willingly ignore such a response, that is your prerogative but there was one there despite your "claims". I welcome truthful comments but many of your posts and claims within them are not.

I am open to free speech but not when you have, in our opinion posted here and various other places simply to force our hand.

Matt

Like i said Matt the service itself is brilliant apart from the customer support on the odd occasion when things don't seem right.

I will say that most of the problems i have had are my own routers showing a Adsl Red light but when i go into the netgear router and look at the router stats it says i am connected at around 13 meg.

Sometimes when you don't have a internet connection for whatever reason the logical thing to do is to ring your isp
and some occasions its difficult to know if its my end,your end or basically BT doing something at the exchange .

I say its my Router but i have a backup router that was also displaying a red light no adsl connection so I'm not sure what was wrong at the time last week on and of throughout the evening.

Its a rare occurrence though but it would be nice if on the odd time i did ring technical help i got treated like a valued customer .

Edited by time2die (Tue 19-Mar-13 08:35:06)

I would say the 3 or 4% of customers on any isp would actually know how to interpret their broadband connections. Then you have a portion of those customers who would use forums such as these to express their dissatisfaction. Bottom line is if every happy customer on every isp registered on this forum and made positive contributions then thinkbroadband would have more registered users than bt landline customers.

It is a shame that thinkbroadband forums are always blighted by negative customer outbursts. In this sort of industry a happy customer is a quiet one.

your lucky any business responds to a message on a sunday.

stop using these forums as a way of upping the anti against the ISP, understood you can slag them off on here but having a slaggin match is not good for either of you, in my eyes it makes the consumer some sort of loser who has too much time on their hands. On sunday I went to the gym then washed my car before watching highlights of the F1 and 4pm sky sports footeh match

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

I would say the 3 or 4% of customers on any isp would actually know how to interpret their broadband connections. Then you have a portion of those customers who would use forums such as these to express their dissatisfaction. Bottom line is if every happy customer on every isp registered on this forum and made positive contributions then thinkbroadband would have more registered users than bt landline customers.

It is a shame that thinkbroadband forums are always blighted by negative customer outbursts. In this sort of industry a happy customer is a quiet one.

Untill the day you yourself encounter problems from your ISP and then it will be a different story,its a forum and its also got a header saying ISP unhappiness so companys have to take the ups and the downs when been active on any sort of website and providing a certain service that does not meet peoples requirements.

your asking me if i had problems with isp's ?

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

your lucky any business responds to a message on a sunday.

stop using these forums as a way of upping the anti against the ISP, understood you can slag them off on here but having a slaggin match is not good for either of you, in my eyes it makes the consumer some sort of loser who has too much time on their hands. On sunday I went to the gym then washed my car before watching highlights of the F1 and 4pm sky sports footeh match

Too funny! I have posted here only relating to a dispute I am having with a broadband supplier. Why should I take advice on how I use my time from one who has spent eleven years posting several thousand times on this website? Such invective from the peanut gallery serves no useful purpose in advancing any discussion about the relevant issues.

I'm not persuaded that my posts here make me a "loser" or that your choice of Sunday activities makes you a "winner". You have certainly demonstrated a lack of basic literacy skills in addition to very poor manners. I shan't comment on whether remedial English lessons would be a more productive use of your time than consuming sports programming and feuding online, but as it seems you are in need of a victory in your life I shall let you have the last word.

Im just saying that not everyone has no issues and since this is a forum about Broadband and there are many ISP suppliers on here then it goes without saying that not everybody will be delighted with what they are getting and i don't see why people can not post on here about not getting what they paid for or any other issues revolving around a broadband service.

Personally my connection is almost perfect and i have no complaints on that side of things,But since Matt from Uno is frequent on these forums then sometimes it may be better if he gets a different take when things are not what they seem.

I understand the procedure of opening tickets when problems occur on the isp websites,but why not post on here also when the people that are supplying the service are frequently on here,it also gives others the chance to way up there options if wanting to change ISP or are considering a broadband Package

All I am saying is that the user has started dialogue with the ISP about issues concerning monies he feels he is owed.

He has now taken it a step further by highlighting these issues even though they are still on going.

I would of at least been patient and given the ISP 28 days notice in writing before acting the way he has.

For example you buy something from Littlewoods or very.co.uk and it is damaged in transit, you reject it before it enters your house and require a refund. Their policy states they have to have the items returned and in their possession, then carry out an inspection before they issue refunds. This takes up to 6 weeks.

I understand the consumer but on the other hand he believes he has been treated unfairly yet does not allow the ISP to defend themselves nor has allowed sufficient time for an investigation and outcome.

I am sure you would appreciate an investigation if you were accused of theft in your workplace.

Edited by Stanman_24 (Tue 19-Mar-13 15:43:23)

Rather than upset someone else other than your ISP, why not admit you have been hasty and inpatient. Also why not admit that you were surprised to receive a response on a sunday of all days.

I rather have a lack of basic literacy skills than stress issues expecting the world to stop on a Sunday because I have been shortchanged £60. So yes I do think your acting like a loser.

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

All I am saying is that the user has started dialogue with the ISP about issues concerning monies he feels he is owed.

He has now taken it a step further by highlighting these issues even though they are still on going.

I would of at least been patient and given the ISP 28 days notice in writing before acting the way he has.

When a refund is due it is only fair to accommodate the supplier in cases where they may need to make investigation before processing a payment. Your damaged goods example is a good one. However, in the case of a service, Xilo don't need to wait until they can inspect goods before issuing a refund. Indeed, they were able to confirm with their supplier within 24 hours that the order for broadband had been cancelled. What more is there to investigate and why should the matter still be ongoing?

Xilo appear to be investigating whether they need issue a refund at all, and if so whether they are entitled to deduct cancellation charges. This is something which in my view a company should have sought appropriate advice on before commencing trading. Again, a reasonable person would make allowances where the nature of the contract is outside of the suppliers usual business or where the supplier has only been trading a short time and therefore does not have much experience. However Xilo have been in business for years, selling amongst other things broadband connections.

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

For example you buy something from Littlewoods or very.co.uk and it is damaged in transit, you reject it before it enters your house and require a refund. Their policy states they have to have the items returned and in their possession, then carry out an inspection before they issue refunds. This takes up to 6 weeks.

Not only is that policy fair just and reasonable to both Littlewoods and the consumer, it is also part of the distance selling regulations that consumers are required to return goods for inspection before claiming a refund. Nobody has shown me the statute or court case which suggests I am required to wait a specified period of time before objecting that the price I paid for broadband has not been refunded.

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

I understand the consumer but on the other hand he believes he has been treated unfairly yet does not allow the ISP to defend themselves nor has allowed sufficient time for an investigation and outcome.

I don't agree with this point. If the ISP wish to defend themselves that is their matter. I have not attempted to obstruct them in doing so, and I have not asked websites to remove any content they have posted, nor have I threatened to sue them for what they have written online.

What you think is sufficient time, what I think is sufficient time, and what an ISP thinks is sufficient time are likely three different periods and this is exactly the matter in dispute. What you appear to have missed is that if this case is decided in court (at my expense and risk), the outcome will give very clear guidance which consumers and ISPs alike can rely on in future. We will all know where we stand. I've also provided something of a public service by sharing what I have learned and linking to legislation and OFT guidance which would save other broadband consumers the burden of doing copious research to identify the relevant points.

People can take from this what they like if they consider it helpful or not. Interestingly, Xilo claim the right to take legal action and assess fees when a customer is overdue, and there is no provision for honest mistake or time to investigate:

In reference to www.xilo.net/legal/terms_of_service/:

Any non-payment of an invoice may be subject to late payment at 4% of any overdue invoice. The customer is responsible for all money owed on the account from the time it was established to the time that the customer sends an electronic cancellation request...

Services that are unpaid past the due date will be suspended and terminated.

We reserve the right to hand over any unpaid accounts to one or more, of our appointed debt collection agencies, Daniels Silverman Limited or Henriksen Limited and collect 8% interest on any amount owed. Our collection agencies may also levy a further fee added to the total debt for costs incurred in collecting the debt.

Why is it okay for Xilo to use legal remedies to recover past due amounts but not okay for me to use legal remedies to do the same? Where does Xilo say in their terms that they will give the consumer time to "investigate" why the internet service bill has not been paid? Why should I extend a courtesy which would not be reciprocated? Xilo say in the case of a web hosting contract that they would suspend service and delete data. What if the payment didn't clear because of a problem at my bank, or I had forgotten to ensure funds were available, or a cheque I had deposited had been dishonoured through no fault of my own and there weren't sufficient funds available to pay the broadband bill, despite that I'd taken arrangements to make sure it were paid?

Thanks for replying back on topic and leaving the personal comments out.

Edited by deleted (Tue 19-Mar-13 17:33:00)

I don't think this thread is helping any party so let's try and take the heat out of it shall we?

Companies and/or teams within organisations that have either a technical support or customer service role usually have a ticket/e-mail queue and will deal with matters in the order in which they are received which is the fairest way. (I do know about this as I work within a technical support role and receive my work via such systems as well as the telephone)

This does occasionally lead to slower responses than the customer or the organisation would like but it is nonetheless the fairest way of doing things as you will ALWAYS have a situation where demand outstrips supply and delays result.

You also have to allow time for whoever in the organisation to look into what you have asked them to do and bear in mind third parties are involved here too who may impose restrictions about fees they charge Xilo which perhaps Matt is looking into, have you considered that possibility?

The people at Xilo I have dealt with including Matt have been extremely helpful and believe me I have asked lots of questions both before and after the service was connected as i have to work from home occasionally using VPN and there were a couple of teething problems regarding latency which were swiftly dealt with.

Raging on forums, via tickets or over the phone isn't going to help you or the person on the other end.

Think clearly and calmly, call Xilo tomorrow and ask calmly about your refund, if you treat them as human beings then I'm sure they will be more inclined to do what they can to help.

In reply to a post by tblackwood:

if this case is decided in court (at my expense and risk), the outcome will give very clear guidance which consumers and ISPs alike can rely on in future.

Outcomes in County/Small Claims Courts do not make Case Law; you need High Court for that.

In reply to a post by uno:

Actually to once again correct you, if you review the message posted 35 minutes after message on Sunday, which have have incorrectly stated has not been responded to, you will see there is a detailed response covering this.

If you choose to willingly ignore such a response, that is your prerogative but there was one there despite your "claims". I welcome truthful comments but many of your posts and claims within them are not.

I am open to free speech but not when you have, in our opinion posted here and various other places simply to force our hand.

Matt

I have not wilfully ignored any response. I emailed you today at 14:52 in the following terms:

Hi Matt,

As you have now involved a solicitor can I ask for their name, contact telephone number, email, and your permission to contact them directly in order to resolve this dispute? You would require to give your solicitor permission before they are able to talk to me directly.

I have no record of any email you claim on tbb to have sent on Sunday 17th March. Can you please send these again as I appear to have no trouble receiving your other correspondence. I have checked my email server and show no connection attempts from hosts belonging to you in all of Sunday.

I have received no reply at this time. It is interesting that I have received email correspondence regarding threats of legal action for what I have posted on the internet, but no correspondence regarding whether I can expect to receive a refund.

Post deleted by techguy

Have you actually picked up the phone and spoken calmly to anyone at Xilo or have you just taken to the internet to rant and rave?

In reply to a post by tblackwood:

I shall be raising an action in my local Court tomorrow morning, and cannot comment here while the matter is sub judice.

Did you go ahead with legal action?

In reply to a post by tblackwood:

Too funny! I have posted here only relating to a dispute I am having with a broadband supplier. Why should I take advice on how I use my time from one who has spent eleven years posting several thousand times on this website? Such invective from the peanut gallery serves no useful purpose in advancing any discussion about the relevant issues.

Actually it does. ISPs like many many businesses *may* have support working weekends but often not customer accounts - through whom such things as refunds would be processed. You do seem to have some patience issues, even a recalled DD or CC payment takes several (working) days to process. The post itself in a roundabout way illustrates a simple fact, that many businesses run with a lower availability of staff at weekends when those staff are off doing whatever it is they do.

It is also seems rather unfortunate that you have chosen to mock the amount of time spent posting by some of the forum members here - Less charitable people may feel that this is in some way bitterness because you have not found much support for your situation - I have to agree with others, refunds (If due) take time - in MANY fields - not just Broadband.

The final Irony for me is your lecturing a member here on Good manners.

Strange how this member registered only 10 days after the well publicized offloading of Bethere /02 retail to sky

In reply to a post by tblackwood:

Why should I take advice on how I use my time from one who has spent eleven years posting several thousand times on this website? Such invective from the peanut gallery serves no useful purpose in advancing any discussion about the relevant issues.

Attacking posters who disagree with you is not supporting the free speech you yourself desire on this forum. It works both ways.

It seems to me the issues are best resolved through discussion/mediation/arbitration/court system, and then for the forum users to find out what happened, rather than a public slanging match.

seb

Valid Point..........

In reply to a post by seb:

In reply to a post by tblackwood:

Why should I take advice on how I use my time from one who has spent eleven years posting several thousand times on this website? Such invective from the peanut gallery serves no useful purpose in advancing any discussion about the relevant issues.

Attacking posters who disagree with you is not supporting the free speech you yourself desire on this forum. It works both ways.

It seems to me the issues are best resolved through discussion/mediation/arbitration/court system, and then for the forum users to find out what happened, rather than a public slanging match.

seb

seb, I'd agree with you but the poster called me a loser. I wasn't attacking him for disagreeing I was responding to a personal attack which also stated I must have too much time on my hands. Prior to my reply to this rude individual I had not used invective or indulged in any name calling.

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

in my eyes it makes the consumer some sort of loser who has too much time on their hands. On sunday I went to the gym then washed my car before watching highlights of the F1 and 4pm sky sports footeh match

In reply to a post by Stanman_24:

I rather have a lack of basic literacy skills than stress issues expecting the world to stop on a Sunday because I have been shortchanged £60. So yes I do think your acting like a loser.

Hopefully Matt and I can update the community with the outcome of this matter in early course. I am pleased to say that early indications suggest that those involved may be conciliated very soon.

Edited by deleted (Wed 20-Mar-13 00:34:34)

Xilo have now undertaken to refund my account for the full £62.99 I paid.

Xilo have now answered the questions I raised about whether I would be receiving a refund.

Glad to hear the issue is now resolved.

In the future though, pick up the phone and talk to people, the majority of businesses aren't out there to fleece you and are run by reasonable folks just trying to make an honest living just like you or I.

Edited by techguy (Wed 20-Mar-13 19:51:49)