Giganet (Cityfibre FTTP)

Been looking at Giganet for a while now and thinking of signing up, I see they ain’t the cheapest FTTP I can get but reviews seem really good, anyone have any experience with them on FTTP using cityfibre, also I’ve read on here that zens backhaul is to be avoided why is this and do Giganet use them? Thanks.

I'm not aware of any provider who uses Zen backhaul over CityFibre (apart from Zen themselves, obviously).
Giganet definitely do not use Zen.

Hello

I have Giganet one of the best ISP's I have had for years. They use the cityfibre network and BT.

I've been with Giganet 950 on CF since about march. So far so good - no issues with Giganet themselves. Great speed and low latency.

Had an incident which I had to get support involved in when ParcelForce reversed into and destroyed CF's street cabinet. Giganet were good and responsive on the phone and ticket system. They got CF involved quickly, although it took a little longer to fix than I would have liked (not helped by the extra bank holiday in September) but considering most of the the fibers had been snapped so had to re-blown, it was a bit of a big job and certainly not the fault of Giganet. I will say that I haven't seen any of the promised compensation from that incident yet though (maybe the next bill may reflect it, if not back onto support!)...

Edited by philg (Mon 17-Oct-22 00:23:53)

Sounds good I have heard lots of good things about them, I see they do the top package of 900 but some providers I’ve looked at go to 1000 do you know why this is, do you still get the same speed if you went with the 1000 providers or do you actually lose that speed if you go for the ones that advertise at 900, also what’s your ping like I suppose this depends where you live though. Thanks.

I see just I’ve read a lot on here about avoiding the zen backhaul maybe this isn’t a thing when using cityfibre then if that’s the case happy days.

Sounds great that, I’ve been looking around though and see some providers go up to 1000 on cityfibre and Giganet are at 900, does this mean you lose that speed if you don’t go for the higher one or is it just the way they advertise the package and there all the same, you mention your on 950 highest I see is a 900 package?.

Sorry, yes you are right, it is the 900 package, on the account page its called "Gig Full Fibre"... But generally, on decent speedtests I get >900 (most of the time) in both directions. I guess its probably a marketing/not wanting to over promise/ASA restrictions/average thing that they call it 900!

Yeah that’s true maybe they want to call it a 900 package so they don’t over hype it and you don’t get that or something, I’ve noticed a lot of providers call it a 1000 package but some 900, what speed do you normally get on a test, also when I check installation dates with Giganet they always seem to be the quickest to install most are like 8 days wait Giganet seems to be a few days wait maybe they’ve got there own installers or something did you find this, how long was your wait?.

Speed tests vary depending on where the servers are (obviously). The speed test here on TBB right now: 832(dn)/909(up), and Ookla 916(dn) / 924(up). It also depends on equipment. The Giganet router had no problems with speed but I don't use it as I like more control and have quite a complex network setup internally with a couple of servers, multiple Lan-Lan VPNs and backup connections - not your typical "resident!"). My old (Vigor) router struggled to maintain >800mbps esp with IPv6 enabled, but my new OPNSense box is pretty powerful and has no such problems.

But do be aware, your not going to see gigabit speeds everywhere, for example, xbox game downloads, don't appear to be much different from my previous 350Mbit virgin connection likely because Microsofts CDN limits speed per connection etc. But I can do more at the same time as downloading that >50Gb game. I do sometimes wonder if its worth having more than 500mbit but its nice...

Decent upload speeds and stable latency/jitter is probably more important to me personally (Virgin being diabolical on that front). My pings on giganet are nice and low and stable even under load typically 5ms to bbc.co.uk (ipv6 which is interesting slightly lower latency than IPv4 - that may be my equipment) - it will depend where you are in the UK I guess - I'm not that far from London.

There is also the fact that its a contended service as is all residential broadband. There are 20 properties on my street with one cabinet and the CF network as a whole is brand new still with (too) many roadworks around . Right now I think (complete guess) only 3 or 4 of us are using CF on my cabinet - so I do wonder how it will degrade as more people join up.

I think, to most people, the impact of the difference between 900 and 1000 is relatively insignificant (compare to the massively noticeable difference between 10 and 110 mbit for example).

As for wait times, I'm not sure I can answer that with any certainty. I only had a choice between two ISP's Giganet and Zen here at the time (there are more now), I don't think there was much difference although I think I waited longer than 8 days (and I'm pretty sure I was aware it would be longer than that when I ordered). Giganet at the time gave me the impression that I was one of their first customers in my area (CF had only lit the street a few weeks prior and Giganet implied that they were still running tests in the area before installations could begin - not sure how accurate that information was!

They (giganet) do not use their own installers - it was all CF's contractors (Kellys Coms) here, same when the parcelforce van destroyed the cabinet, kellys were the ones to investigate/fix it.

Those speeds seem pretty decent/spot on from the looks of it so that’s very promising to see, also the ping sounds low and great too, around 5ms is a great figure I don’t think I’ve seen that low on any of my connections yet, it’s also good to know the router they supply is decent it says on the website that it’s also Wi-Fi 6 which is good to know for the future as that’s better for Wi-Fi coverage if using that which I probably will be so happy to know that, just been reading on the website and it says they will let you know the guaranteed installation date a couple of days later, seems a little strange as the website is offering me a installation date for this Thursday currently so it seems a little pointless showing that if they then don’t stick too it, perhaps they do most of the time maybe just in certain circumstances they have to change it, is your connection underground or via the pole, it seems mine will be via the pole as they had trouble underground for my area and it’ll be another 12 months for that to be active so they let me sign up and use the pole instead so I can get it quicker as been waiting 3 years as it is, I’m guessing it doesn’t matter if it goes underground or via the pole the connection is still of the same quality, and yeah I’m guessing it’s those same installation workers here as I’ve seen those vans around too, it seems Giganet is definitely up there with the one I’ll probably go for plus I’ve noticed they are offering 3 months free and a 1 month contract at the moment, great to see a monthly contract that’s rare these days most the others I’ve looked at are minimum 12 months.

Yes the router had Wifi 6 (I think its a zyxel something or other, and its not locked down so you do get full admin access to it etc. I can check after work if you want).

Mine is all underground in new ducts that CF installed last year. The whole CF infrastructure in this are is new and they seem to be installing ducts all over the place (not using PIA). But I cant see any difference with a pole installation (other than the obvious risk of tree/the elements damage being higher - but as proven, even underground does not help when someone decides to reverse into the cabinet lol).

The three months free was good and the 1Mo contract I think shows that they have faith in themselves. I don't think you get the 3mo free on the 1mo contract (which is fair enough!). So many these days are 18 or 24mo contracts which I try and avoid!

I changed from vodafone 900 to Giganet 900 and the difference is amazing.

Latency has dropped dramatically. Speeds are very consistent no matter what time of day.
£30 off my first bill for using my own router. Monthly contract. No price rises. ipv6 /48 and /64 Cant recommend them enough.

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 4 ms 3 ms 4 ms thn-bn-2.giga.net.uk [37.48.224.7]
3 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms 217-168-248-28.m12solutions.net [217.168.248.28]
4 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms lonap-gw1.thdo.ncuk.net [5.57.80.142]
5 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms te1-51-36.core-rs3.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.72]
6 5 ms 4 ms 4 ms po5-32.core-rs4.thdo.ncuk.net [80.249.97.90]
7 4 ms 4 ms 4 ms pingbox1.thinkbroadband.com [80.249.99.164]

I'm located in Northampton

Speedtest

Edited by jalzoo (Mon 17-Oct-22 10:21:36)

Likewise, in Northampton, massive decrease in latency and all the other bonuses you mention, I took the 12 month plan so havent paid anything yet as ive had 3 months free. Also had to call their support at the start, got straight through and spoke to a normal person who knew what they were doing, unlike when I tried to get help from vodafone.
Great service.

Edited by Rolandrat (Mon 17-Oct-22 11:24:44)

Was your service installed and live on the day of your installation as I’ve just ordered it and they say there coming out Thursday but says in the email that I’ve just got that it can take 2 installations and longer than 2 weeks to install the connection, I assumed when they come Thursday there install the fibre line and I’ll be active the same day is this not the case?.

Mine was a migration from vodafone to giganet, that did have its problems but thats a different story, for my new install few years back it was two visits, one for the outside bit getting fibre cable to the front door, then few weeks later an engineer came to do the inside bits.

I’ve just called CS and spoke to the worst guy ever didn’t have a clue what he was doing and I’ve heard nothing but good stuff about the CS as well, so it could be the case where they install the fibre to the house and then come back, was hoping it’ll all be done on the same day and I’ll be live when they leave, I wonder if this can be the case sometimes where your live on the same day of installation.

It may well be a case that you spoke to a technical engineer, the actual installs are dealt with by Cityfibre and their contractors which for were Kelly Comunications. Anyway not making excuses, it is what it is.
The main reason its two stage is because there may well be problems getting the cable to your door, I had a blockage and they spent hours digging down about 6ft (luckily it was gravel and earth and not driveway), these are people with shovels etc, the second visit is people with fibre splicers and the ONT's etc. This way they know the second visit is going to take a fixed time so they can plan so many in a day.

Just spoke to someone decent who knew what they was doing, my installation date has been confirmed for this Thursday so quite quick and she said the installation should all be complete on the same day as long as there isn’t any issues they run into, my installation will be coming from the pole, I have a toby and underground feeds but there not in use for another 12 months and the poles are active now so they fold be they will do it that way instead so hopefully no obstructions with blockages or anything to do with underground and it’s all done on the same day.

Thats a good result.
Mine was over two years ago now, processes change. Crikey life at 4Mb ADSL, was it that long ago!
Good luck!

Thanks I’ll let you know how installation goes, got 3 months free as well and they said I can leave whenever I like regardless of the 12 month contract as there is no exit fees, not sure if this means I’ll have to pay off the remaining months or not but I’m sure I’ll be happy with it.

In reply to a post by philg:

I've been with Giganet 950 on CF since about march. So far so good - no issues with Giganet themselves. Great speed and low latency.

Had an incident which I had to get support involved in when ParcelForce reversed into and destroyed CF's street cabinet. Giganet were good and responsive on the phone and ticket system. They got CF involved quickly, although it took a little longer to fix than I would have liked (not helped by the extra bank holiday in September) but considering most of the the fibers had been snapped so had to re-blown, it was a bit of a big job and certainly not the fault of Giganet. I will say that I haven't seen any of the promised compensation from that incident yet though (maybe the next bill may reflect it, if not back onto support!)...

Ouchy. That's one of the reasons I'm glad all my Openreach FTTP has ended up underground, much better than street cabs that are a bit of a vandal and bad fortune magnet.

How long did it actually take for them to get you back connected? Did they not provide any kind of backup connection kit?

I think it was 7 (or maybe 8 days) because we had an extra bank holiday in the way and they had to re-blow the fiber from my outside box to the cabinet (otherwise it would have been 2 days I guess).

I still have my pre-fibre virgin business connection as its still in contract and no cheaper to cancel it early. Also Three 4G backup... So they didn't need to provide any thing extra, but i am still expecting (and waiting) to be compensated for the downtime (and a missed appointment by CF engineers - grrrr) as they are signed up to Ofcom's standards - so if/when it happens that should cover more than a months supply. Had I not had backups I would have been shouting louder!

No openreach options around here yet, but I quite like the synchronous nature as I probably do more up stream than downstream on average!

The only issue i came against when switching was Giganet didn't know if Vodafone would cut me off in the Earlie hours of the morning or the very last thing at night so to be safe when i signed up the guy on the phone set my line to go live the day after to save any issues. Turns out that day after is a Saturday and Cityfibre are not open during the weekend so my line wasn't provisioned until Monday morning. Luckily i have a kind neighbour that allowed me to use their Wifi for a few days. Thank god with 3 kids and no internet I'd have been driven nuts.

There does seem to be a bit of a blackhole for migrations, it doesnt seem to be as seamless as openreach products, so much so I actually had 3 vans of engineers out to my house thinking it was a new install even though giganet only needed a photo of the back of my existing ont for the serial numbers etc. I think I was down for about half a day but then I have BT FTTP also so I didnt really notice as my Draytek sorted it all out.
I believe the problem here was Cityfibre themselves not Giganet. I suspect things will get better over time as people are getting to the end of their 2 year contracts and move to different ISP's

I was pretty shocked Giganet have managed to get me a install day literally within a few days of me ordering, I did look at a few other providers and when it come to install day they was all 8 days and further so hats off to Giganet there not sure why they could get it done much quicker which I was happy with as get it sorted before the weekend, been told it should all be sorted on the same day as well as I’ve read a few things about them bringing the cable from the pole to the house and then leaving the inside part for another day, the person on the phone said that shouldn’t be the case and must installs get completed on the same day.

Pleased to hear your experience of the ordering process has gone well so far (ours, from the nearest telegraph pole, only took 45 minutes from the Kelly Communications engineers arriving to being live, although they did miss the first appointment and turned up 3 days later. Giganet were helpful in getting another booking quickly).

Our connection works as advertised but I'm not sure about the jitter (I have one particularly demanding application, playing live in an online band, where even slight jitter can be audible). Jitter on Giganet FTTP is a bit worse than on our old Plusnet FTTC connection. I'm using the supplied Technicolor DGA4134 router, which apparently has some kind of built-in QoS, and bufferbloat test results are pretty good but not perfect. Link to separate post with BQM graphs here: https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bqm/f/4723464-fttp...

Has anyone else on Giganet/CityFibre tried the Broadband Quality Monitor, and if so what results did you get?

Edited by Stargazer99 (Tue 18-Oct-22 22:44:29)

Yeah it seems to have gone well so far I’m just hoping the install people arrive when they should and the appointment isn’t delayed, there is 2 poles near my premises one that is quite close but has a tree near it which is covering the pole to some extent and then another which is much further away but with nothing in the way of it, I’ll be interested to know which one they use on Thursday, the closer one is preferred for me but I’m not sure if they’d need to cut leaves away and if they can do that or not as it’s only a few leaves in the way of the cable coming from that closer pole.

Edited by tomxlisa (Tue 18-Oct-22 14:50:25)

In May this year I followed one of your posts in a different thread (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/vodafone/t/4712646...) with:

"You are going to worry yourself into a nervous breakdown before we get to the end of this saga. You really should just step back, chill and let it happen when it happens."

May I offer the same advice about this topic?

Don’t worry I’m fine in reality and it’s good to talk but thanks for the advice.

EDIT: The router Giganet supply is the Technicolor DGA4134 (my WIFI AP's are zyxel excuse the foggy head!)

Is the router a good one then does it have great Wi-Fi coverage as they said it does and said it’s a great spec router but I’m guessing they would say that wouldn’t they, but yeah it’s underground for here but there’s delays with that so agreed with me that I could go via the pole which is already activated as I have ones nearby, just hoping they can go from the closer pole but there’s a tree by it with leaves and that round it, not sure if that will stop them at all, also with the contract I wanted 1 month but they said the 12 month one with the 3 months free is pretty much a monthly one too as you can leave with no exit fees and 30 days notice, this didn’t make much sense to me but didn’t question it as I’ll probably be with them a minimum of 12 months anyways, but to me it sounded like I was signing a 12 month contract not a 1 month one but I’m not sure.

Are these the T&Cs you've signed? https://www.giganet.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Gi...

This seems very badly worded to me, because the intent of the term "Minimum Service Period" is unclear.

2.2 The Service will have a minimum period (“Minimum Service Period”) which could be as short as one (1) month or as long as twenty-four (24) months. This Minimum Service Period will be made clear at the time of ordering.

Sounds fine so far.

2.3 The Minimum Service Period does not affect your right to cancel under clause 4.2

Clause 4.2 is only about cancellations during the cooling-off period, so that's fine.

2.2.2 We do not charge early termination fees should you decide to cancel during the Minimum Service Period.
...
4.4 After installation – your Services will end a minimum of thirty (30) days’ after you inform us of your wish to cancel.

But in that event, could they still charge you for the remainder of the Minimum Service Period you have signed up to, arguing that's what a "Minimum Service Period" implicitly means, and without this being considered an "early termination fee"?

I'm sure they can't: but if not, I can't see what possible purpose there was for introducing a "Minimum Service Period" into the contract in the first place. 4.4 doesn't appear to make any distinction between cancellations received during or after the MSP - it says at any time after installation.

If you migrate your service to another OR-based FTTP provider, they may charge you for 30 days beyond the migration date, or the date they received the notification from the gaining provider, whichever is sooner. However this also applies whether or not you are within the MSP.

IANAL but on balance, it reads to me that Giganet are obliged to provide you the service for the duration of MSP at the agreed price, but that you are not obliged to take it for the whole term. If true, this is very much in your favour. But it shouldn't be necessary to dissect a contract like this to understand it!

I did query it but I didn’t really go too deep into it as I know I’ll be happy with them I might give them another call today to try and get a better explanation on the contract term, I think it’s 12 months but you can leave with 30 days notice, it would of been a 1 month contract but I think it’s 12 if they give you the 3 months free, I think they’d charge me for the remainder of the 12 month contract if my understanding is correct, but I’ll phone them later to get this clarified.

You can find more information about their network here:

https://www.giganet.uk/network/

Cityfibre installation didn’t go too well, they turned up 2 hrs before the time slot I picked but went ahead with it even though it was inconvenient, couldn’t have the ONT/router in the room I wanted it so had to go in another room next door just so they could continue with the installation as they couldn’t bring the cable over the porch apparently, anyways once installation was finished they come in and tell me the pole has no light and they don’t know when it’ll be fixed, there gonna update me, wasn’t impressed with the whole process at all, why didn’t they check there was no light before starting the whole installation, just my luck.

Edited by tomxlisa (Thu 20-Oct-22 16:16:32)

Sorry to hear that, Usually before an area goes live it's tested and confirmed working before anyone can place an order. But it sounds like the City fibre engineers are living up to their terrible reputation ( Check their Trustpilot ). It wouldn't surprise me if their testing equipment was faulty. They always seem to take the "We can't be bothered" Approach, If I were you i would walking around your street with your phone and see if there any Vodafone1212121 (example) wireless networks if there is you'll have a good idea that the engineers are full of rubbish and their is light.

Basically there is 2 poles one further away from me and one quite close, they picked the close one as it’ll be easier for them and where they wanted to install it, I said to them is it live that one they said yeah it is, anyways installation went ahead and then they come in and say all done but there isn’t a light on that pole so you can’t use the service and we don’t know when I’m like for real, was pretty much lost for words, I said didn’t you check this before starting works they said yeah but you said you wanted it from the closer pole so we carried on with the works (which I never said) I was like so you’ve installed basically for no reason they was like yeah they wasn’t very professional at all bunch of young lads wasn’t impressed, they said the other pole has light, anyways they come back afterwards and tell me there isn’t light on the other pole either and it’s a temporary outage, this all smells like bull [censored] to me, since then leaving I’ve had a phone call to say that a engineer will be out tomorrow to fix the issue but I really don’t see it getting fixed from what I’ve read on the internet it can be a big job?.

Are you saying the Cityfibre engineers when they turn up pick the pole/port that your service is going to be connected too? I believe on Openreach the port is pre-allocated but only port 1 on each CBT is tested during the commissioning phase so that can still leave a dead port on the go live date if its a '1 stage' install.

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Oct-22 18:09:48)

Pretty much if that’s my understanding, they come out and just said yeah we will go from that pole as it’s closer and then connected it up, they said they checked if it had light before they connected the cable but chase they had drilled the hole on the house went ahead anyways seems very shambles to me, they have been in contact though and said someone is coming out tomorrow to fix it, hopefully, but from what I’ve read online since them leaving no light can be a big job and weeks until fixed, (Just my luck).

Finally installed and active today, speeds not great but I’m told they improve over time or maybe it’s the fact I’m using WiFi currently.

Whoever told you your speeds will improve over time is talking rubbish, FTTP speeds should be full rate immediately.

However any speed tests over Wi-Fi are pointless, you need to test with an ethernet connection.

Yeah I thought so when they said it takes time but I have checked with a cable since and the speeds are fine around 940/940 both ways, is there anyway to get better speeds using Wi-Fi even if it means me buying a better router would that help?.

In reply to a post by tomxlisa:

Yeah I thought so when they said it takes time but I have checked with a cable since and the speeds are fine around 940/940 both ways, is there anyway to get better speeds using Wi-Fi even if it means me buying a better router would that help?.

There is a technology called Wifi 6 which can be faster. Both the router/access point and what ever device being used such as laptop or mobile phone etc need to support this to benefit. I could have bought a wifi 6 card for my laptop. The practical benefit of doing this is probably not much.

A Windows laptop will show you the actual connection speed if you click the Network Connection icon. Practical data transfer rate is likely to be about 1/3rd of the speed shown.

In reply to a post by tomxlisa:

is there anyway to get better speeds using Wi-Fi even if it means me buying a better router would that help?.

Depends what the router and the computer specs are, if a phone or tablet less likely.

My office provides me a Lenovo laptop for home working with an Intel chip, and it has a WiFi 6 radio, and I have an ASUS router on my broadband which is WiFi 6, the theoretical rate is 1200 Mbps between the two. This can't be compared to Ethernet wired rates, so I would expect to see 700 or faster over WiFi.

(My broadband is only 200 Mbps as I don't have FTTP here).