RDP / Remote Assistance

I often need to help my bother with his PC, since he doesn't have much computer knowledge. When he wanted internet access (about a year ago), I asked around and PN was recommeded. He has a 2M plus account.

Issues would no longer be a problem, we thought!

However, these days, I can't help him remotely, because I just can't get a stable connection to his machine. The bandwidth is extremely poor, I mean, several minutes to start a connection, which will often then fail.

I have noticed several issues:
1. He is experiencing poor bandwidth generally: downlink 230-450 kbs, uplink 100-150 kbs. For a 2M connection, this seems poor?
2. His router shows regular disconnects/reconnects, like 10-12 times from 5PM-midnight yesterday. Timeouts on the router and at PN are disabled.

However, my main issue is remote connection, hence my questions:
a) Does PN block Windows XP RDP on port 3389?
b) Does PN block Windows XP remote assistant?
c) How about VNC on port 5900?

Please tell me this is still possible (it worked a long time ago!)!

Plusnet introduced a firewall last week which was turned on by default on plus accounts,your brother may need to turn it off before you will get remote access.

Yes, thanks. I should have mentioned that - I already disabled it completely whilst sorting this issue.

I can make connection, i.e. firewalls off, ports opened, etc, but data transferis diabolical, and as mentioned, usually then fails. It is totally unusable.

No blocking, but sounds like the line has a fault, internal or external. Does the modem he have provide detailed stats, e.g. snr, crc errors etc.
Then check the wiring (if above is showing something) e.g. check nothing is wrong internally then checkout the external wiring.

I would disagree, to many people have complained about this as well, there was a post on the PUG site iirc whereby the business customer was having the same symptons.

Definitley not a line fault I would say, more likely shaping and mismatched signatures etc.

Maybe an important point is that it was working months ago, but I've only recently tried the remote connections, so I don't know when it stopped working.

He is using a Netgear DG834; it doesn't show line S/N details. It is showing:
Down Stream 2272 Kb/s
Up Stream 288 Kb/s

Typical usage is 150-200MB per month, so he shold not be hitting any limits.

Ah, glad you posted that. I've been having problems initiating an ICQ chat session with someone on a BB+ account recently. It needs NAT and Firewall rules on routers to work so this pretty much explains it...

It was getting progressively slower making the connection before this so I suspect that is due to some shaping at the PN end. Also file transfers over ICQ had been very slow a long while ~5KB/s

Edited by deleted (Wed 14-Feb-07 22:03:48)

Wonder if anyone has tried www.logmein.com for remote viewing of a PC on BB+?

My sister has BB+ and in the past I've had no problem helping her.

With the Broadband Firewall in place now, I'll see (in the next few days, if poss) if there's a problem getting access.

(LogMeIn uses https connection - possibly via USA - a PC to be controlled 'calls home' to Logmein.com so dynamic IP isn't a problem - though not tested yet, of course.)

As I've mentioned in my previous post, the file transfers over ICQ have been getting slower and slower from my F2S account and my friend's BB+ account. 5KB/s or less. I put that down to shaping.

Like you, I get asked to help out on other's machines so for one friend I installed UltraVNC on a BB+ machine and it will simply not work on the BB+ account. It might connect, but it's too slow to actually do anything with - i.e. it can't transfer enough data to allow the screen to refresh.

well its the disconnects that make me suspect line problems, and I would venture line problems are more common than are given credit for. For a while I was strongly believing there was a network fault when I was getting download speeds of 100K, 50K, 150K. My modem wasn't disconnecting. Sometimes I would get the full whack. I eventually realised that I was getting SNR blips that were making the modem try for a reconnect without disconnecting (a belkin) - well its a long story

So all I am saying is that, first that should be ruled out. I am not saying there might not be a issue with BB+ - there might, but equally there might be a line fault - and things can work at first for many months. My particular fault seems to arrive in 4 monthly intervals for about 1-2 weeks, then back to perfection - go figure.

I know for a netgear there was a way of getting the detailed stats, something like appending a ?debug on a url, then telnetting into the box and typing a command to see various stats and information.

All I am saying in the past, standard practice was to eliminate local problems, line problems, then you can have a feel its network issues. Nowadays it seems it has to be ISP problems. It could well be BB+ issues, but having just tried it direct on a BB+ account I found no issues - normally I would tunnel in via a vpn.

I'll see if I can find a link - just to eliminate the local question.

Good 'ol Kitz,

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.htm#anchor26
how to check for interleaving seems to have the information that would help somewhat with crc reports, and the show statistics should show the current snr on the statistics page.

oops incase that doesn't work just use the menus to get to the netgear

Edited by onestar (Wed 14-Feb-07 22:40:17)

Ah, Netgear DG814 *cannot* provide line stats!

I'll take my DG834 next time I go to his house, just to check at least.

Thanks.

We are talking of the new Plusnet firewall .. not the software one or hardware firewall on the router.

Two posts back you said he was using a DG834. The early versions of this did not give the stats but you can upgrade the firmware to a version that does show the stats.

Yes, I was too:

I've port forwarded on the router, disabled ZoneAlarm on the PC, and disabled the PN firewall for the time being.

Connections are established, data is transferred, but it's unusably slow and usually disconnects frequently. Recently (I've only tried the last month or so) it stopped working. Previously - 6 months ago - it worked fine.

Oops, my mistake - he has (my old) DG814, and I now have a DG834.

I'd be interested in an explanation of how "shaping and mismatched signatures etc." could cause

In reply to:

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His router shows regular disconnects/reconnects, like 10-12 times from 5PM-midnight

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Something that I've seen make a difference in the past when using remote desktop software over a 64KB HH connection is to change the desktop settings to use fewer colours and a lower resolution. You can reduce the bandwidth required significantly.

Havem't PN ran out of sessions? So theoretically if he was not using the machine on the internet they would disconnect him?

The easiest way to check this would be to try RDP after midnight when the shaping is off, I bet it works fine

Maybe but I can run 256 colours no problems whatsoever at any time of the day.

I will try to find the post for reference

http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet&Number=2875135&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=

edit~: added url

Edited by soundsystem (Wed 14-Feb-07 23:21:54)

Nice try, but the idle timeout is 30 minutes. It wouldn't explain dropouts while he is in the middle of trying to use RDP.

Absolutely - I wondered whether he might be running something like Highest (32 bit) at 1600x1200 - I'd expect that to chug a bit!

Wasnt been hostile - just a suggestion


edit: OP does not say it drops whilst using RDP - timesout thats different

Edited by soundsystem (Wed 14-Feb-07 23:43:30)

I may have done a 2+2=5 but I was guessing that a dropped connection could be the cause of a timeout. The LAN link from the PC to the router would still be OK so it wouldn't show up as a lost connection on the PC.

iirc part of the problem (perhaps not this problem) with remote desktop settings is to have the host and the remote PCs both at the same resolution, which reduces a fair bit of the sluggishness. Any setup I've used, 16-bit was fine, as long as both ends of the connection were set identically. Also disable or reduce any high-end gfx settings.

His router shows regular disconnects/reconnects, like 10-12 times from 5PM-midnight
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Idle time-outs? Or... some iterations of Netgear firmware introduced this pattern of behaviour - check their website for the latest firmware, or try downgrading to an earlier version.

Simon

I think there is a known problem with VPN/VNC when both parties are with PlusNet. PlusNet are aware of this...maybe raise a ticket on PlusNet?

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53200&highlight=vpn

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52805&highlight=vpn

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53371&highlight=vpn

http://portal.plus.net/central/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53437&highlight=vpn

Edited by Nick_Russell (Thu 15-Feb-07 08:19:17)

In reply to:

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I think there is a known problem with VPN/VNC when both parties are with PlusNet. PlusNet are aware of this...maybe raise a ticket on PlusNet?

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Hi there,

This should be fixed. We're certainly not investigating any specific issues. I have still seen some scattered reports but nothing conclusive as yet.

Kind Rgds,

Indeed. There are some discussions about this at PUG and new firmware released recently:

http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,4322.0.html
http://usergroup.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,3550.0.html

If you do use these, make sure that you get the correct version from the download site. v2 and v3 of the router are incompatible.

In reply to:

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So theoretically if he was not using the machine on the internet they would disconnect him?

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The OP said in their original post:-

In reply to:

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Timeouts on the router and at PN are disabled.

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Rgds,

In reply to:

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Ah, glad you posted that. I've been having problems initiating an ICQ chat session with someone on a BB+ account recently. It needs NAT and Firewall rules on routers to work so this pretty much explains it...

It was getting progressively slower making the connection before this so I suspect that is due to some shaping at the PN end. Also file transfers over ICQ had been very slow a long while ~5KB/s

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Hi,

Chat sessions on default ports are in the Gold traffic queues so should be fine any time of the day or night. DCC file transfers and chat on non-standard ports is in Silver so will slow considerably during busy periods. I provided a bit of a more in depth explanation on our portal forums yesterday regarding IRC if you're interested.?

Kind Rgds,

That will depend upon the remote desktop software being used. I use pcAnywhere over VPN most days. My PC's main main monitor is set to 1280x1024 32bit. The remote desktop is 1024x768 16 bit so it runs in a window on my PC rather than taking over the full screen. Within pcAnywhere I have it set to "color scale" to 256 colors.

Although my connection syncs at 8Mb, the VPN Gateway limits the speed to 1Mb. Set up the way I am, speeds are such that you can forget you are working remotely. Before I put the color scale on it was laggy.

He's on a DG814 - there's no updates for that router.

This did apply if both are on the same gateway. The OP can rule this out by making sure they are on different gateways. However as Bob has said, this problem is believed to be fixed.

In reply to:

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I often need to help my bother with his PC, since he doesn't have much computer knowledge. When he wanted internet access (about a year ago), I asked around and PN was recommeded. He has a 2M plus account.

Issues would no longer be a problem, we thought!

However, these days, I can't help him remotely, because I just can't get a stable connection to his machine. The bandwidth is extremely poor, I mean, several minutes to start a connection, which will often then fail.

I have noticed several issues:
1. He is experiencing poor bandwidth generally: downlink 230-450 kbs, uplink 100-150 kbs. For a 2M connection, this seems poor?

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This does seem pretty low. It could be due to a number of factors though. You say he has a 2Mbps Plus account. Is it fixed at 2Mbps or is he on MaxDSL? It could be that he's been dealt a nasty bRAS profile by BT's dynamic line management system. Another possibility is exchange side contention, a genuine fault or the symptoms of the problems we're experiencing as documented here and here. It's pretty hard to say without being able to look at the account.

In reply to:

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2. His router shows regular disconnects/reconnects, like 10-12 times from 5PM-midnight yesterday. Timeouts on the router and at PN are disabled.

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This could be a loss of synchronisation suggesting that the connection between your brother's equipment and the exchange is being intermittently dropped. Difficult to say again without acces to the RADIUS logs however he should have a DSL or Link or ADSL light on the front of his equipment that would go out or flash from time to time if this was the case.

In reply to:

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However, my main issue is remote connection, hence my questions:
a) Does PN block Windows XP RDP on port 3389?

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No, make sure as suggested thought that the server side firewall is switched off at your brothers end.

In reply to:

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b) Does PN block Windows XP remote assistant?

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Not as far as I'm aware but I couldn't be categorically sure at the moment without capturing the traffic and double checking.

In reply to:

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c) How about VNC on port 5900?

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Nope. Neither 5901, 5902 etc. when running multiple machines.

Kind Rgds,

Then try downgrading.

http://kbserver.netgear.com/products/DG814.asp

Simon

Ta - will have a read

Oops! Specifically WinVNC with regards my last post.

So you are saying you have plenty of sessions - enough for everyone? This could not possibly be the reason and that the problem must be at his end?

Just for clarification's sake

Todays installment plus answers to some questions raised:

- I'm on Pipex, connecting to a PN user
- The resolution is 1024x768 at the PN PC end, and I'm at 1280x1024.
- PN support tell me:
1.

In reply to:

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The download speeds you are getting at peak time are not uncommon at the moment. We are aware of the problem and are working to improve the situation. I have copied the latest Service Status announcement regarding this below:
and
We are aware that a number of light use Broadband Plus customers are continuing to report slow download speeds during peak hours are are continuing to investigate the issue.

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2.

In reply to:

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With regard to RDP connections, they will suffer in the same way as VPN's when slow speeds are encountered. The only way to be certain of getting this kind of connection to work reliably is to upgrade your account to Pay as You Go or Premier.

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What this tells me is that BB+ account is useless and definitely *not* as advertised.

Status:
The connection has been up for 18 hours (according to the connection status in the router), which is progress - but I don't know why! Also don't know why it disconnected 12 times in the early hours between 1am and 6am.

Here are a few entries from the log tonight:
2| PPP : PPP Connection OK
3| PPP : IPCP OK
4| PPP : IPCP Start
5| PPP : CHAP OK
6| PPP : CHAP Recv Challenge
7| PPP : CHAP Start
8| PPP : LCP OK
9| PPP : LCP Start
10| PPP : PPP Start
11| PPP : CHAP Recv Challenge
12| PPP : CHAP Start
13| PPP : LCP OK
14| PPP : LCP Retry
15| PPP : LCP Retry
16| PPP : LCP Retry
17| PPP : LCP Start
18| PPP : PPP Start
19| PPP : PPP Disconnect
20| PPP : LCP Retry
21| PPP : LCP Fail
22| PPP : LCP Retry Exceed
23| PPP : LCP Retry
24| PPP : LCP Retry
25| PPP : LCP Retry
26| PPP : LCP Retry
27| PPP : LCP Start
28| PPP : PPP Start
29| PPP : PPP Disconnect

I really don't know where to take this next. PN support basically can't help further, but the connection is extremely poor!

Any suggestions as to my next move greatly received...

Not much help I suppose, but maybe consider moving to another ISP?

Zen offer a great package, however not cheap but it is as advertised.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info. To answer your questions:
- this is on a fixed 2M BB+ connection, not MaxDSL
- I think there is no absolute blocking going on since I can get a connection, it's just extremely slow and usually disconnects.
- one of your colleagues at PN suppot also sent me to the links - which seem to say BB+ has ran out of capcity and therefore to expect low bandwidth. It also suggests light users will be actually worse off.

For ref, this is logged as ticket ID: 21306118.

Any more pointers or suggestions would be most welcome.

Cheers.

In reply to:

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Not much help I suppose, but maybe consider moving to another ISP?

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I guess I asked for that

I'm not too keen to change his account just yet, and I'm *not* trying to slate PN. In general, my brother and his family get their [light] use out of the internet, so he's happy.

I will say that I'm on a rather more expensive Pipex DSL (23.44/Month for 1M - have been with them for >5 years), and that is no longer good value. I was thinking of PN for myself, but just last weekend started to look elsewhere. I ended up at Zen, so this may in fact be where I take my money personally. Thanks.

Currently on very old (but previously very stable) firmware:
Firmware Version V4.10 Feb. 11, 2004

I had this router for 3 years, and it was always ok. Maybe old age is creeping in

Just as a heads up Pipex / F2S / and Nildram have had trouble with traffic shaping as well, infact F2S backed out of it after it caused havoc on their network.

http://www.freedom2support.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8461

Maybe if Plusnet had done so as well, people would not be complaining as much.

Edited by soundsystem (Fri 16-Feb-07 01:46:02)

Just how light is their usage? If it is less than 2GB per month you would see an enormous difference on PAYG for the same price and for

F2S do a great package at

Let the figures speak for themselves!!

Billing Period   Peak usage Off-peak usage Total usage 

19 Oct - 18 Nov  49.82MB     29.42MB        79.24MB 

19 Nov - 18 Dec  36.78MB    280.48KB        37.06MB 

19 Dec - 18 Jan  225.52MB   119.99MB       345.52MB

This month, 200MB peak, 100MB off-peak so far, so roughly equal to Dec.

Seems he could actually manage on any type of account !!

Based on those figures I wouldn't hesitate to put him on to PAYG which will cost him exactly the same.

or go to F2S for the same price but get 5gb instead of 2gb and it definitely works!

Well, seems like the "shaping" or whatever *is* affecting things.

Today, during the daytime, I can get in and control the remote PC quite well with RDP.

Bandwidth speed tests still show low numbers:

478.20kbps Which means you can download at 59.78 KB/sec. from our servers.

Option 1.
5 minutes on the portal requesting the change, wait 10 minutes disconnect/reconnect (no changes required to login details) - job done. Plus the advantage that they will now be on a fixed IP which will make remote support easier. Over 1GB spare capacity for his requirements. Near line speeds on all protocols at all times of the day.

Option 2.
5 minutes on the portal requesting MAC. Wait some hours for MAC code. Contact F2S and give them MAC code. Arrange transfer for 30 days after MAC requested or ASAP (about 7 days) and have 3 weeks where you are paying both Plusnet and F2S. Change login details in the router (obviously this can't be done remotely so you'll have to visit). Over 4GB spare capacity for his requirements - speeds at all times of the day? I can't comment. Does F2S have fixed IPs?

Now which would I choose?

On PAYG you'd still get that sort of speed at 9pm on a Monday evening (unless there are problems with contention at his exchange - but then there's not a lot of options!).

Option 2.
5 minutes on the portal requesting MAC. Wait some hours for MAC code. Contact F2S and give them MAC code. Arrange transfer for 30 days after MAC requested or ASAP (about 7 days) and have 3 weeks where you are paying both Plusnet and F2S. Change login details in the router (obviously this can't be done remotely so you'll have to visit). Over 4GB spare capacity for his requirements - speeds at all times of the day? I can't comment. Does F2S have fixed IPs?


Does F2S have fixed IPs?

YES

Plusnet have had him doing all sets of tests when they knew what the real problem was.

Vote with your wallet I would.

Whats so difficult about changing a username and a password and getting a connection you know will work. How do you know that Plusnet won't change the limits or the goalposts next month?

History shows they have a habit of doing it - and not telling anyone.

At the end of the day the guy is not getting what he

a) Pays for

b) Signed up to

In reply to:

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Whats so difficult about changing a username and a password

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We don't know how close he lives to his brother. When the connection is down changing those remotely is not possible.


I'm not sure I understand why you suggest he should take at least a week to migrate when he can switch to PAYG in minutes for no cost and still have the option to migrate if that doesn't work out - just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure I understand why you suggest he should take at least a week to migrate when he can switch to PAYG in minutes for no cost and still have the option to migrate if that doesn't work out - just doesn't make sense to me.

But how do you know that will sort the problem out?

Was it not thought because of the disconnections his kit was at fault?

Face it - PN have changed something at their end, no problem with the OP's kit and he has had to go through all the work to prove it ain't his end when I said what the problem was in my first post on here.

If it were me they would be history.

In reply to:

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But how do you know that will sort the problem out?

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From elsewhere in this topic:

In reply to:

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Well, seems like the "shaping" or whatever *is* affecting things.

Today, during the daytime, I can get in and control the remote PC quite well with RDP.

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I think that about covers it!

Todays test @ 23:19, i.e. now:

I can access the remote PC and it's useable, only slightly sluggish!

Download speed test 1865kbs - wow - that's the fastest is's been for ages.

At least you have moved forwards

Yes indeed, which is good. I just wish I knew why / what's changed. Now after midnight I'm seeing 1940kbs, which I assume for a 2M connection is excellent.

From my test last Friday lunchtime, which showed only 478kbs download, PN support repeated the statement "performance at peak-time will be different to off-peak time". How does that help in any way?

Anyway, the connection seems to be working well now, so we're happy.

Its shaping, or in other words, the future of the internet, if on an IPSTREAM product.

Thing is Plusnet forgot to tell you guys, that they are crippling your connection.

Like I said in my post earlier on, it was highly unlikely it was your connection, and rumour has it if you pay an extra

It would help if you made it clear that it's not a flat

For the sake of clairfication, if the customer is on 4gb allowance now, to retain and get the sames speeds that the customer signed up to - he needs to pay the

BB+ is not a fixed allowance product - it has a guide of up to 4GB peak. Not all users of BB+ use up to 4GB, in fact the majority (around 75%) use less than 2GB TOTAL.

Giving the additional cost for a 2GB (

Some of us like to give facts, so in essence the OP has now lost 2gb of allowance and his speed.

If he wants his speed back, he can change his account? however the downside to this is he will lose 2gb of allowance.

So the FACT is he is worse off, TRUE or FALSE?

In all honesty, you have no interest in giving facts, but are far more content with your continual stirring.

If the customer uses less than 2GB then he will not be paying more. If he does, then he will be paying for what he uses and will receive a better customer experience for doing so.

So he will be better off either way as far as I am concerned.

"In all honesty, you have no interest in giving facts, but are far more content with your continual stirring. "

So because I am sticking up for the customers you are not giving what they pay for, I am stirring, You have hit rock bottom!

Yes Ged, that's exactly what I said.

I was actually inferring that your posting activity over the recent months has been nothing short of trolling. You can argue this point to the death but inside I'm sure you know that I am perfectly accurate in my musing.

Also he will have lost many hours "offpeek".
So it's not only allowence he will lose.

And your company taking off your customers what they are paying for over the last few months, has been nothing short of disgraceful.

Now it seems that you can have all your cheap jibes on a forum that your company ran away from because they could not handle the jibes.

Watch out Marco's around and you may be pulled from here again.

I have nothing further to say to you James, for you to result to insults is a little low, but hey what do I expect from you guys.

Now if this had of been the other way around, you would have ran off crying to the moderators.

And you whinged when you left this forum that you were being abused and insulted
Double standards I think

If you give it out Soundsystem, dont complain when you get it back.

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And your company taking off your customers what they are paying for over the last few months, has been nothing short of disgraceful.
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FAIR COMMENT

____________________________________________________________________
Now it seems that you can have all your cheap jibes on a forum that your company ran away from because they could not handle the jibes.
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Pot, kettle Black.... etc

Edited by deleted (Tue 20-Feb-07 11:27:01)

I can give as good as I get the difference is I don't get personal or spit my dummy out when I am losing an arguement.

There was no need for James to say what he said, I could say a lot more back, but I won't degrade to his level.

Where did I deny that if he wanted the same 4GB allowance it would cost

Sorry to butt in here but the only party better off is PN.

How exactly is the customer better off on PAYG, with a reduced allowance and increase in peak hours? You are promising to deliver what you had been on BB+ but now either at reduced levels for the same costs or at the old allowances at higher cost. If PN think they are very clever and can pull the wool over people's eyes they need a rethink of the consumers level of intelligence.

Jelv

"Where did I deny that if he wanted the same 4GB allowance it would cost

An observation if I can. In two posts you have become personal and attacked another poster on this forum, the very thing you accused people of doing before withdrawing. Either PN want to keep this issue non-personal or they don't but don't expect to insult people here and demand that no one attack you personally and your answers. It is a two-way thing, James.

Thats just a little sanctimonious.

Someone using less than 2GB per month 8am to midnight anyway is of course far better off - he'll be seeing better speeds.

If they use up to 4GB their

The point you seem to be missing is WHY should a customer need to do this when they are within the limits of the product they purchased???

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The point you seem to be missing is WHY should a customer need to do this when they are within the limits of the product they purchased???
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A point that PN have consistently failed to answer properly.

I said 2GB

But only Jelv is fighting their corner, not even Plusnet can begin to justify what we are asking.

Jelv I am sure has best intentions at heart, and I respect his viewpoint, what I fail to grasp is that he does not seem to understand or comprehend that the customer is worse off.

If a customer who pays

In reply to:

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some user might find that with a change of account, Plusnet are ideal for their needs.

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Some users would be happy if their BB+ account worked as advertised, Plusnet have pulled the wool over their eyes. It works both ways.

No, by changing to PAYG with 4GB and paying

Also how can a customer have faith PAYG will stay the same as it is now?
After all none of the other services has!

PN dont appear to be about to do a u turn on this. (Shame)

Options...

1) Restored/Additional Capacity within the next week or so - wait and see If this makes a difference.
2) Change to PAYG
3) Leave - after all every other ISP is better according to some on here.
4) Wait a month(ish) for YSWP to finish and leave.
5) Stay as you are

with 4) it may be prudent to switch to PAYG in the short term and then take advantage of removal of YSWP

You can say that of absolutely any ISP (like denying that you will ever introduce capping!).

"No, by changing to PAYG with 4GB and paying

Your final point is actually something I have recommended.

Especially as when you change to PAYG you get the full allowance for the remainder of the month and so if your normal requirement would be 4GB and you change half way through you should be able to get away with 2GB.

That misses the point, where a user could potentially use 4GB during 4pm to midnight and an additional 50GB off-peak is now restricted to using 2GB between 8am and midnight or having to pay more for using it in the same manner as when they bought BB+. Nothing changes that fact.

In reply to:

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If they use up to 4GB their

-------------------------------------------------------
Plusnet LLU and Your Rights
Formal Complaints Process
Testing Connection Speeds

Jelv - I think we all understand that shaping is here to stay, I have already pointed out to move to F2S with a 5gb allowance, and VPN / RDP etc works on during the day (although they shape) is exactly the same price that you are saying the customer can have with Plusnet for

If a ISP do this and you're unhappy about it then you need to move, not let them force you onto another service they want you on.

You seem to be looking at the past through very rose coloured spectacles. I wouldn't like to try and guess how many posts there have been in here about carp speeds of P2P and NNTP on BB+ over the last year!

Jelv if the OP changes account and stays at the same price of

In reply to:

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So for example binary usenet which has never, ever given decent speeds on BB+ at peak times will perform well (typically 6000kbps or better) on PAYG.

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Most people buying BB+ seem to understand the limitation of their package and understand that P2P/Usenet will be severly restricted during peak times. That they can't use these protocols is not the argument.

... at the moment.

The smart money says things are not going to stay that way!

But I would know that anyway, if I had wanted to do P2P and Newsgroups, I would have signed up to Premier or another ISP, however the account that the OP has always worked on RDP which has always worked on BB+ until PN tinkered.

The smart money says that those ISPs will move with times like any other ISP have been doing it and still delivering what they promise. It doesn't mean they will revert to PN's antics. You stated that PN's PAYG package is unbeatable to which I disagree wholeheartedly, not only on price and delivery but also the ISPs principles or lack thereof.

Lets shut the playground up - if people do what they've done in this thread then I will suspend people, and it does not matter who they are