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Hi guys,
As many of you may remember, Ian floated an idea about an open day for TBB users at PlusNet's offices in Sheffield. This is an opportunity to meet PlusNet & AG staff and have some constructive debates about relevant issues.
I have two questions which I'd welcome feedback on.
1. What topics would you like covered?
(The day will need some structure.. I'm hoping replies will lead to a list more than a debate as to the merits of each topic at the moment)
2. Would you like to attend?
(Please indicate which day would suit you best and whether you're a PN customer)
The day will be EITHER Friday 25 May OR Saturday 26 May in Sheffield. Please indicate preference if you want to come.
This isn't exclusively for PN customers but I equally don't want everyone to not be PN customers.. We will decide on the numbers etc. a bit later.
We have some ideas on topics already but I'd welcome suggestions which you can make in response to this post, or by e-mail to me ( [email protected]).
seb
Edited by seb (Thu 26-Apr-07 20:37:02)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Bump
Is anyone going on this?
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If PN want me there, i'll go. The Saturday would be best for me as I won't have to try and get time off work then.
I think of some questions etc in my sleep tonight
Vince
Back on Force9......I get what I expect here.
Now a Plusnet Usergroup Member too.
14 year olds racing cars - see our teams progress at MVRacing.co.uk |
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> Bump
> Is anyone going on this?
I am surprised at the lack of interest.. If the dates are an issue even then I'd like to hear about it.
Clearly if there's very little demand then we'd have to look again at whether to do this, but PN are keen so it would be a good chance. I have had one e-mail response.. Wondering it's something relating to bank holiday weekend.
Rsharma .... ? 
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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> If PN want me there, i'll go. The Saturday would be best for me as I won't have to try and get time off work then.
> I think of some questions etc in my sleep tonight
PN have made it very clear to us that it's up to us to decide who attends, so it's not really a matter of whether PN want you to go.. It's a question of do you want to go.. and if so, how it balances with other people, which we'll look at.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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>Rsharma .... ?
Sorry but I'm not really interested. Please let me explain.
I don't do long trips without getting paid for it  . Secondly, I would only use up my time if I thought there was progress to be made i.e. without spin (or taking it to an extreme - without lies).
There are problems still but that is the reason why I'm still in contact with Ofcom (in fact I replied and updated them only today). I don't think there are many problems now because PN have introduced clear details on the new packages (for which they should be congratulated) but it is their insistence that they can change them as and when they want that is the issue at stake. I intend to get that rectified and then leave them to it. There are other issues too but they are more of a technical nature so I leave it for their customers to ask questions.
Ultimately it boils down to one thing for me. If the customer can make an informed choice (i.e. irrespective of what the packages deliver and because they are given notice of any changes) then I'm happy for that customer. I don't care about the rest.
Note: There might be many mistakes but wine will often do that. 
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In reply to:
I don't do long trips without getting paid for it . Secondly, I would only use up my time if I thought there was progress to be made i.e. without spin (or taking it to an extreme - without lies).
We can probably arrange something on covering costs of travel.. I'm not sure it would be a good idea to pay people more than that.. or this might become a 'business' to some people.. but your reasons are fair enough.. In the end everyone needs to put their own priorities in order. This would be a chance to engage directly and hopefully in a productive way with PN which is why I'd be keen to see it work. I have seen a remarked change in attitude recently from PN which is why I'm keen to push this forward.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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If you are chairing it and some key people from PlusNet are going to be there, I would be happy to attend but a long trip would be impossible. If there would be more people willing to make a meeting nearer London, perhaps Mohammed would be willing to come to the mountain? I anyway wouldn't be interested in a tour of offices and equipment (although some would no doubt).
Simon
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>We can probably arrange something on covering costs of travel..
I wasn't seeking reimbursement of travel costs (more getting paid by the hour if I did go to Sheffield i.e. it was tongue in cheek).
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Should have made the meeting next Saturday, and included tickets for the snooker final
I think a central "neutral" venue would be better. Also if PN staff dont mind a saturday think that would be better for most (also might stop the silly comments on here about how PN staff are taking time out to talk to ex- customers).
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>Should have made the meeting next Saturday, and included tickets for the snooker final
The irony of your statement is that only last week I gave away my tickets for the event because I have something else that I need to attend.
>I think a central "neutral" venue would be better.
It's not war you know. I don't think it makes any difference where it is held as long as PN agree to a MOU not to kidnap the attendees and demand everyone quit the forum...
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My name was drawn for the 30th March PN meeting so believe it unfair to apply again.
I found the drive to Sheffield well worth it to meet the new CEO and his revitalised team. As a professional manager, who has had problems with PN in the past, the atmosphere at PN House felt good but go for yourselves, contribute have a look and a listen.
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>It's not war you know.
Wasn't too sure looking at this forum at times
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In reply to:
I don't think there are many problems now because PN have introduced clear details on the new packages (for which they should be congratulated) but it is their insistence that they can change them as and when they want that is the issue at stake. I intend to get that rectified and then leave them to it.
Are you going to go after pretty much every other company in the world? It's a very standard part of practically every other set of T's & C's out there. It's something that has to be there, what happens if legislation changes that affects the T's & C's? One of the changes we made to the T's & C's in 2005 was to do with distance selling regulations. In order to confirm to the new regulations the T's & C's had to be updated.
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I'm not interested - I never travel further north than Winchester
Ian Stirling
Sky Broadband Max
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> It's something that has to be there, what happens if legislation changes that affects the T's & C's? One of the changes we made to the T's & C's in 2005 was to do with distance selling regulations. In order to confirm to the new regulations the T's & C's had to be updated.
Big difference in changing T&C because of changes to the law, than to change T&C just because it benefits PN in doing so.
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In reply to:
I think a central "neutral" venue would be better. Also if PN staff dont mind a saturday think that would be better for most (also might stop the silly comments on here about how PN staff are taking time out to talk to ex- customers).
I think the idea is to let people have an idea of how PN works which is obviously not possible in any other location. As for Saturday idea.. that's something I came up with which PN were quite happy with if there was demand for it.. office would be quieter but equally if that means we have a better opportunity to discuss things with people who would otherwise not be able to make it, then why not.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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> i.e. it was tongue in cheek
..but you still aren't interested in going I take it?
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I would like rsharma to go.
How about moving it to his local pub/hotel?
Simon
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> I would like rsharma to go.
I would too
> How about moving it to his local pub/hotel?
Erm.. This isn't a meeting for rsharma's sake.. so that's not really fair.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Where is TBB based? Surrey? Nice spot for a meeting of TBB members....
Simon
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>I think the idea is to let people have an idea of how PN works which is obviously not possible in any other location.
TBH I think the people you are looking for to attend aren't so bothered how it works in their building, it's more to do with their policies, and facts and figures.
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> Where is TBB based? Surrey? Nice spot for a meeting of TBB members....
Servers are in Docklands :-p
People are all over. We don't operate out of one office or central location.. All over south of UK more precisely
If this was TBB only thing I'd look at London..
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In reply to:
TBH I think the people you are looking for to attend aren't so bothered how it works in their building, it's more to do with their policies, and facts and figures.
It's very easy to criticise things on figures alone.. I think there's more behind a company and it's useful to see.
If there's no interest in this we'll call it off and I'll spend my end of May doing something I might enjoy more.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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>It's very easy to criticise things on figures alone.. I think there's more behind a company and it's useful to see.
I do agree with that, I would think it would be very intresting and worthwhile to see the whole PN set up.
But judging by comments of some on here it would need to be more London based IMO.
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Funny how some have a LOT to say when hiding behind a keyboard but shy away when given the chance to say it face to face.
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Not such a bad thing really, people are a lot less inhibited online.
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Which day do you prefer George, Friday or Saturday?
ZeN
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Yes, you have it right.
The things that I'm interested in don't warrant travelling from London because they require a simple change in attitude and acceptance of the law. The reply by Dave earlier proves to me that they won't, at least not voluntarily.
The main issues that I challenge are twofold:
1. The changes to packages because PN don't consider the package description (sign up pages) and their associated traffic shaping/throttling pages to form part of the contract and hence not requiring notice when changes are made.
2. The rewriting of history and/or lies that often accompany their marketing attempts or replies to forum posts.
The latter is not critical and I don't loose sleep over it. The former doesn't require meeting PN because having to convince a company when they have access to their own legal team proves to me that they are either being given poor advice or (foolishly) ignoring it. In either case there is little I can do through discussion and hence why I have been dealing directly with Ofcom (it is an official route that they can't ignore).
I do, however, wish you all the best and hope you can make good progress on the issues that are important to you.
[edit] deleted superfluous statements.
Edited by rsharma (Sun 29-Apr-07 09:51:08)
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>Funny how some have a LOT to say when hiding behind a keyboard but shy away when given the chance to say it face to face.
My sentiments exactly...
Edited by rsharma (Sun 29-Apr-07 00:50:04)
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Sheffield is very Central I would be interested as its an economical drive away rather than taking an expensive train into a multicultural zoo.
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Were I to live nearer I'd go - even though I'm not with PN.
I've visited Pipex at WGC half a dozen times and it's always been interesting. It's also nice to put faces to names.
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Why would you rather post on a forum and deal with ofcom when Plusnet are willing to meet people at their offices in Sheffield to show people who things work / discuss issues , potentially at weekends to fit in with people.
If I was running a website , spending hours on forums and in my own time highlighting issues about Plusnet I would jump at the chance to go and visit them. Saying the things you are interested in don't warrant travelling from London could be seen as avoiding dealing directly with the issues you spend alot of time focusing on.
Plusnets website clearly explains the packages they offer so I am not sure what you are raising as an issue now. People are free to choose if it fits their needs or not.
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I'd love to go to this, having been a PlusNet customer since 2003. Not really had any major issues and just consider myself a 'normal' user.
However dont know if I could justify the cost of train from Essex and Overnight accomodation
--
Darren
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You may have a different view on things and good for you but I'm not you and your reasons are not the same ones I follow. There is nothing to discuss, either PN accept those pages form part of the contract or they don't, and they don't. Meeting them in person is not going to change that.
>Saying the things you are interested in don't warrant travelling from London could be seen as avoiding dealing directly with the issues you spend alot of time focusing on.
Or if I was a cynic, to make allegations against another without foundation.
>Plusnets website clearly explains the packages they offer so I am not sure what you are raising as an issue now.
Do you not understand what I have stated earlier? The pages do indeed describe what they promise to deliver, today, but they will change them as and when it suits them without notice. What exactly is the customer buying and contracting for under those circumstances?
Anyway, this thread is not about persuading me to travel to Sheffield, it is about asking for those interested in visiting PN to state as much.
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My main point was how can you resolve your issues with Plusnet without talking to them directly. You have been dealing with Ofcom for over a year now and they have not upheld or acted on your complaints. A visit to Plusnet seems the best option as you could talk to them about their recent changes and future plans but as you say it is your choice not to take Plusnet up on their offer.
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Maybe he doesn't want to meet face to face with those he has been .. shall we say .. less than polite about. Takes a bit of gumption to meet with folk you have been saying have been lying etc. It's one thing being a paper / VDU tiger ..another actually seeing the folk concerned.
Edited by onlyme2 (Sun 29-Apr-07 13:47:38)
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Because I have wasted endless hours via PM directly with staff over the last year trying to discuss the issues without progress. If I thought meeting them face to face would solve the problem I would be happy to meet them but I don't and their position has been made clear.
>You have been dealing with Ofcom for over a year now and they have not upheld or acted on your complaints.
That is your interpretation. Completely wrong, but you are entitled to hold it.
We can debate this issue for a few more rounds but I have made my position known and there is nothing further I can add.
Edited by rsharma (Sun 29-Apr-07 14:28:16)
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>Maybe he doesn't want to meet face to face with those he has been .. shall we say .. less than polite about.
1. I don't say anything on the forum I would be uncomfortable saying in person. 2. I have called PN liars, their staff have not been the target. That the staff would toe the company line is to be expected from loyal employees. I know it means little to you but that distinction is very important to me.
>It's one thing being a paper / VDU tiger
My sentiments exactly...(just like I agreed with George earlier). Perhaps now you will change your attitude on this forum?
Edited by rsharma (Sun 29-Apr-07 14:35:38)
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I am not the one with the constant grievance am I ... your the one who left 18 months ago and cannot let go.
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Thats fair enough if you have tried to contact plusnet in everyway appart from face to face and thats how you want to approach it it is down to you. Just seemed like a good opportunity to me rather than playing PM / forum posting/ Email tennis which I find can miss the point or be misinterpreted by both sides.
">You have been dealing with Ofcom for over a year now and they have not upheld or acted on your complaints.
That is your interpretation. Completely wrong, but you are entitled to hold it. "
Ofcom have not prosecuted Plusnet to my knowledge or offically intervened. How you interpret that is your decision.
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>I am not the one with the constant grievance am I ... your the one who left 18 months ago and cannot let go.
By reading your comments to rsharma it looks like it's you who can't let go!
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>Ofcom have not prosecuted Plusnet to my knowledge or offically intervened.
To get Ofcom to to anything is amazing, just remember Ofcom allow ISP's to sell " unlimited" broadband and nearly ISP have a FUP (a limit).
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Guys and galls, please let us stick to topic.
As I see it the topic is "who wants to attend the open day"
Them's that do, say so, them's that don't move on.
rsharma, I see no reason that you have to defend your decision, nor do I see a reason for others to harp on about it, desist please.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Thought it needed a comment by me before a Mod would say anything.
Glad my post helped
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Have to agree 
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Always folowing his tune ... you are not a customer either that speaks volumes about you not letting go!
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>you are not a customer either
I know, but with my sig only a fool would have to state it
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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So why are you not taking up the opportunity?
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What don't you understand about Dons post?
Link to Dons post
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Cheers Seb
Just had a thought. For me it would have to be the Saturday as I must be at work on the Friday to pick up my new car.
Regarding questions to be asked/topics for discussion
- Current shaping and where it is heading
- Changes to shaping and how this affects the customer/supplier contract
- Where PN think the market is heading over the next year or so
Vince
Back on Force9......I get what I expect here.
Now a Plusnet Usergroup Member too.
14 year olds racing cars - see our teams progress at MVRacing.co.uk |
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> I must be at work on the Friday to pick up my new car
What car?
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Nothing special...just a Mondeo Estate. My company Focus has come to the end of its lease so they are buying me a new toy. Shame the new Mondeo comes out next month so I end up with and end of line model.
Vince
Back on Force9......I get what I expect here.
Now a Plusnet Usergroup Member too.
14 year olds racing cars - see our teams progress at MVRacing.co.uk |
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> Shame the new Mondeo comes out next month so I end up with and end of line model.
Sorry to hear it.. I would be gutted too (Although not a Mondeo person)
edit: Focuses are nice.. New model ones (the one that was new 2 yrs ago anyway)
seb
Edited by seb (Tue 01-May-07 00:12:36)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Can you keep on topic please?
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I would like to attend such an event on a Saturday but it would have to be in the SE or London.
Nick
PlusNet Broadband Your Way Option 2 DSLMax Netgear DG834G router
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Unfortunately PlusNet aren't in the SE or London. I would like to visit the Colosseum but not until they move it from Rome to Southampton.
Ian Stirling
Sky Broadband Max
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It doesn't take too long to drive to Plusnet from Southampton. I've done it a few times.
Ian
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Depends what you're driving
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I wouldn't mind coming along, I'm not a plusnet customer at the moment but I have been in the past, and I'm in the local area so it'd be interesting to go along and see what they're doing over there.
And just to counter all the WAH NOT IN THE SOUTH EAST people
Edited by deleted (Tue 01-May-07 23:06:15)
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Hi,
Quick update - Having spoken with PlusNet about this, we've decided to re-schedule this for another date in June.. based on the feedback so far, we're looking at a Saturday as this seems to be most popular. I'll post a link to a form when we get one set up for those wanting to register.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Hi Seb,
Let us know when you are scheduling this for as I'd be quite interested in attending. I'm an ex-customer of PN's and, at the time I was with them, was quite active in the PN forum. Be good to get to see the organisation and chat with some of the staff.
Thanks,
Adam
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Hi,
After trying long and hard to find a Saturday (on the basis that most of those who expressed an interest seemed more likely to be able to make a weekend as opposed to a weekday) between AG and PN we came up with only one possible date in the near future which would make it very good to attendees in terms of choice.. As such we've postponed this to a bit later.. probably September time but possibly August.. We'll post back on here when we have dates in mind.. Unfortunately this period is full of other commitments, holidays, etc. so it's been a bit difficult.
seb
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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