Phorm

What is TalkTalk's current position on Phorm?

Last March they had a discussion about it in the TalkTalk forum but the latest concerns of the members are now being largely ignored by the reps.

In view of the response or rather lack of it, I can only infer that the 'opt-in' has not been adopted.

Hmmmm interesting but i feel its almost a forgone conclusion that DPI is coming to all of us at some point ..
cant answer your question as im not connected with TalkTalk , but it has indeed gone all quiet on the Phorm fronts .
Must be nearly time for another assault on our freedoms and privacy

I know Porm have said that the BT trials was a success and that BT would start using Phorm by the end of the year. BT seems less sure.

With any luck Porm will go belly up before it happens.

As for it coming to all of us, there will be some ISPs who will resist, but for how long for is another thing.

It should certainly be opt-in and I think the government should step in and tell them that it will be a opt in./

DPI does not equal Phorm

TalkTalk to manage P2P traffic is probably already doing DPI (Deep Packet Inspection)

Has everyone signed the Prime Minister's website petition against the use of this technology for advertising purposes?

The petition closes in 10 days or so. SIgn to say you are "against any ISP breaching customer privacy using advertising technologies"

Very easy to do...
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Over 20,500 signatures and fourth largest petition on the website. Plenty of room for more though and we do need the maximum possible number to get the eyes and ears on this issue.

In reply to a post by Hanco:

Has everyone signed the Prime Minister's website petition against the use of this technology for advertising purposes?

The petition closes in 10 days or so. SIgn to say you are "against any ISP breaching customer privacy using advertising technologies"

Very easy to do...
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Over 20,500 signatures and fourth largest petition on the website. Plenty of room for more though and we do need the maximum possible number to get the eyes and ears on this issue.

What is the point? It will mmake not one bit of difference.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by Hanco:

Has everyone signed the Prime Minister's website petition against the use of this technology for advertising purposes?

The petition closes in 10 days or so. SIgn to say you are "against any ISP breaching customer privacy using advertising technologies"

Very easy to do...
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Over 20,500 signatures and fourth largest petition on the website. Plenty of room for more though and we do need the maximum possible number to get the eyes and ears on this issue.

What is the point? It will mmake not one bit of difference.

If you mean that campaigning against something and getting others to do the same does not change things then history (even very recent history) would say you are wrong. You only have to look at the change in Facebook and their Ts & Cs or the MP expenses proposals and the change that a concerted campaign initiated in those two areas. But even if it does not stop Phorm, enagaging people will alert them to the use of technology in this area so they do enact a choice when it is presented to them. Apathy is the option some people will take (more important things in life etc) but apathy is not for everyone, and signing up (if someone agrees with the petition) is not a big job.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by Hanco:

Has everyone signed the Prime Minister's website petition against the use of this technology for advertising purposes?

The petition closes in 10 days or so. SIgn to say you are "against any ISP breaching customer privacy using advertising technologies"

Very easy to do...
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Over 20,500 signatures and fourth largest petition on the website. Plenty of room for more though and we do need the maximum possible number to get the eyes and ears on this issue.

What is the point? It will mmake not one bit of difference.

This is the problem m8 Apathy this is why we get sh*t on in this country with people having the same attitude as you, stand up for what you think is right instead of saying whats the point.

In reply to a post by Hanco:

[

If you mean that campaigning against something and getting others to do the same does not change things then history (even very recent history) would say you are wrong. You only have to look at the change in Facebook and their Ts & Cs or the MP expenses proposals and the change that a concerted campaign initiated in those two areas. But even if it does not stop Phorm, enagaging people will alert them to the use of technology in this area so they do enact a choice when it is presented to them. Apathy is the option some people will take (more important things in life etc) but apathy is not for everyone, and signing up (if someone agrees with the petition) is not a big job.
[/quote]


Granted sometimes it can work, but the number 10 petition site is just a gimmick or a public relations scam, it don't matter how many people sign on there, it does nothing.
So I will say once again, what is the point?

In reply to a post by kwon:

This is the problem m8 Apathy this is why we get sh*t on in this country with people having the same attitude as you, stand up for what you think is right instead of saying whats the point.

And this is why we only had a 30% turn out in a local by election last week.


But apathy is not the problem here, the problem is that the number 10 petition site is a Public relations scam and nothing that goes on it is taken any notice off.

Because everyone saying nothing says we don't care at all? And if you don't then that's fair enough. Have you got better idea on how we show that there are lots of people unhappy about the situation?

As Basil Fawlty said: "What's the point in being alive? Beats me, we're stuck with it I suppose"

Me, I prefer to do something, starting with changing my ISP, then opposing any pro-Phorm PR spin, donating to people who provide resources to oppose them, ensuring sources of information are kept up to date, enlightening those in the houses of parliament (both houses) and also trying to show I'm not a tin foil hat wearer!

That link in case anyone missed it (up 200 signatures in the last 48hrs) is here:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Phorm must be stopped.

In reply to a post by Hanco:

Because everyone saying nothing says we don't care at all? And if you don't then that's fair enough. Have you got better idea on how we show that there are lots of people unhappy about the situation?

I must admit it did worry me for a bit, but then thinking back if it worried me that much I would not have signed a 18 month contract with BT.
then maybe I was thinking that it would not happen and if it did I would be out of contract by then.

The better solution would be to go to another ISP, if you are that worried.

Me, I prefer to do something, starting with changing my ISP, then opposing any pro-Phorm PR spin, donating to people who provide resources to oppose them, ensuring sources of information are kept up to date, enlightening those in the houses of parliament (both houses) and also trying to show I'm not a tin foil hat wearer!

If people was really that worried about phorm they would leave their ISP and go elsewhere, but since people are not doing that then it shows people are not really worried. If these 20,000 people that signed up was that worried then they would change ISP, ok some can't at the moment because they are in a contract, but I bet the majoirty of them can and also how many of those people are with the ISP{s that are looking at using Phorm?

That link in case anyone missed it (up 200 signatures in the last 48hrs) is here:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/ispphor...

Phorm must be stopped.

I think it will be stopped, but only because they will run out of money and go belly up or that BT decides it is not worth the effort.

As I have said I am not a lover of Phorm and something I don't agree with, but if it is going to happen then it will happen, no matter how many people put their name on a government Public relations website.

Change ISP if you don't like the idea of phorm.

Change ISP if you don't like the idea of phorm.

I already did. But it's spyware on the network at the ISP level and I dislike it so much that moving ISP is not enough. Hence the continued effort to drive politics in the right direction. Thanks.

In reply to a post by Hanco:

Change ISP if you don't like the idea of phorm.

I already did. But it's spyware on the network at the ISP level and I dislike it so much that moving ISP is not enough. Hence the continued effort to drive politics in the right direction. Thanks.

Why? If you are not with any of the ISPs that may use Phorm, then why bother about it?
If I leave BT, then I would not give two hoots if they used Phorm or not, the same with Virgin or TT for that matter.
There is no way I would ever use Virgin and I think Hell would freeze over for me to use TT, so if they want to use Phorm, then it is not my problem. At the moment BT is the one I use and to be honest I am not that worried.

I still think it will all end up as a no go anyway, Phorm will go into chapter 11 and that will be it, I could be wrong mind you.
If Bt do use Phorm, then I will bother about it when it happens.

Phorm will always be an Opt-In facility. With an option to turn it off at a later stage if you change your mind.

In reply to a post by TalkTalkBoy:

Phorm will always be an Opt-In facility. With an option to turn it off at a later stage if you change your mind.

Do you mean opt-out, not opt=in? You start off using Phorm and then you can change it after? No one really knows what they will do, it depends how things go I suppose, but I should think they will do that. It makes sense for them. If they allowed people to opt-in then I doubt people will bother, but if they make it opt-out then again people will not bother.

I know a few people on Bt and I will try and make sure that they opt-out.
The problem is it depends how they do the opt-out, I hope they don't use cookies, because that is wrong as most people I know delete their cookies usineg software like C cleaner. So using cookies will be a waste of time, it needs to be done via the ISp itself.

As I said, I don't like the idea of Phorm, but if ISPs like TT, BT and Virgin takes it up then you can bet your bottom dollar that other ISPs will start doing it as well.

We get tracked all other the net, you be surprised at how many people have cookies galore on their machines, from doubleclick and other tracking sites.

If I set someones computer up, I will normally block third party cookies, after asking them if they want that and then I normally stick C cleaner on and tell them how to use it to keep the cookies they want to keep. But you can get too paranoid, I know someone who thinks someone can steal his music from his computer and the security stuff he got on the machine is way over thetop and no doubt is why it is so slow. I know it is his own music as he is a singer/songwriter, but still.

As I said to him the chances of being hacked is small and if you have got a decent security suit then you are pretty safe as long as you don't go to dodgy web sites or open emails you should not.

In reply to a post by TalkTalkBoy:

Phorm will always be an Opt-In facility.

If that is correct, then it's nice to know, however, your assurance is somwhat undermined by your own signature.

It's somthing that always was planned. A quick search through the TTMembers forum and the posts by Matt on the subject will reveal it's opt in. As far as i know, this hasnt changed.

In reply to a post by TalkTalkBoy:

It's somthing that always was planned.

Not the way I read it.
It was only the concerted efforts of the TT forum members which - in March of last year - have lead to that (widely reported) announcement.

However, subsequent posts, not least the lack of any assurance to the latest TT forum posts (the last of early this month), leads me to suspect that that announcement (Mar 08) was by no means a final decision.

I can't really say much, but it will be opt in.

nope, last i heard it would be opt in and once you choose the option you want it would be stored on TalkTalks systems, not on your local PC.

In reply to a post by TalkTalkBoy:

nope, last i heard it would be opt in and once you choose the option you want it would be stored on TalkTalks systems, not on your local PC.

I heard that is how TT is going to do it, but not sure about other ISPs. There was talk that BT was going to make it opt-out, hopefully they will change their mind or have it changed for them.

Still after what I have seen today it may not worry me, Bt is going to roll out this ADSL2+ to all its customers, where the exchange have been converted, ours is going to be converted next month.
I don't want to go onto ADSL2+ as I have heard how bad it is on lon lines, so I may have to look for another ISP, but not TT, never ever TT.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Still after what I have seen today it may not worry me, Bt is going to roll out this ADSL2+ to all its customers, where the exchange have been converted, ours is going to be converted next month.
I don't want to go onto ADSL2+ as I have heard how bad it is on lon lines, so I may have to look for another ISP, but not TT, never ever TT.

Changing ISP isn't going to help, since if they use BT as their broadband supplier you'll still be on the new ADSL2+ hardware at the exchange, and most (all?) ISPs who provide broadband via LLU are ADSL2+ anyway. ADSL2+ isn't necessarily bad on long lines, but even if it does pose a problem on your line, most routers can be configured to connect using the old ADSL G.dmt mode (ADSL2 might be another option) instead of via ADSL2+.

In reply to a post by Futaura:

Changing ISP isn't going to help, since if they use BT as their broadband supplier you'll still be on the new ADSL2+ hardware at the exchange, and most (all?) ISPs who provide broadband via LLU are ADSL2+ anyway. ADSL2+ isn't necessarily bad on long lines, but even if it does pose a problem on your line, most routers can be configured to connect using the old ADSL G.dmt mode (ADSL2 might be another option) instead of via ADSL2+.

Not all ISps will use the faster speed and even if they do, hopefully they will give a choice, I know Entanet will.

Nothing on the BT hub, you never know they may do a update for it.

I am dreadin them doing anything to that exchange, the last time something was done was when TT put their stuff in and I lost internet for a day.
Coincidence? I don't believe in them,