Router problem?

Need some help guys,

So we have just moved to TalkTalk ADSL2+ internet, and delighted with the speed. We were previously with BT on normal ADSL.

So we set up the Echolife hg532 router, and the wireless works fine. Now I have always had our 2 Xbox 360's wired to the router, but now for some reason if one is connected to Xbox live, if we try and connect with the other Xbox it just doesn't connect to Xbox live, even though all the correct lights are on. When I do a test on the xbox(s) it always says the same thing, and that is to restart the router, but I dont want to keep doing that!

I never had any trouble like this with BT, it is so frustrating as I just do not know how to fix this, so any help is much appreciated.

P.S. I have checked upnp and it is on already.

Steve

I don't own an X-box so have no way to test this.

As you mention upnp is the x-box forwarding ports automatically through the router?

If so and you have 2 x-boxes maybe they are both trying to create rules for the same ports. This would cause the issue you describe.
Whether it is possible to specifiy ports requested within the x-box settings, or to tell the x-box that there is another x-box on the LAN I don't know.

Hope this helps

most router wont be able to forward to two xbox at the same time whilst UPNP is enabled .

I have found a work around to get two xbox working at the same time and it means turning UPNP off and manually forwarding the ports to one xbox and setting the other up as a DMZ .

please don't ask for step by step instructions as it took like a whole day of messing about with the router to find my botched up fix and i don't want to revisit that day of frustration .

Sorry i cant be of more help , as i don't have the HG532 any more , it would of been very difficult to talk you through the set up anyway .

I have a PS3 wired to the router as well and no problems there, its just with the 2 Xbox 360's.

I have a Netgear DGN2000 router, I wonder if changing to that will fix the problem? Also would the Netgear router be a better router than the Echolife one I recieved from TalkTalk?

Steve

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

I have a PS3 wired to the router as well and no problems there, its just with the 2 Xbox 360's.

I have a Netgear DGN2000 router, I wonder if changing to that will fix the problem? Also would the Netgear router be a better router than the Echolife one I recieved from TalkTalk?

Steve

Not sure if the Netgear DGN2000 will fix your problem, but i can guarantee it will give you a better all round performance v echolife 532. I was also sent the Echolife 532 by TalkTalk and on the next day it was sold on ebay for £10...would have gladly given it away for free .

In reply to a post by woweebert:

... and setting the other up as a DMZ .

Do you mean there is a setting in the x-box to set it up as DMZ?

If you mean in the router then setting DMZ should nullify any port forward settings to another machine afaik.
Still, it works for you

Does the router in the OP's question forward ports to an IP address or to a MAC address/NIC card name?

If the former, can you set static LAN IP address in the x-box?
If the latter you should just be able to have forwarding rules for both x-boxes with no DMZ.
Both of these assume you can specify different ports in each x-box though. If you can't do that then I'm at a loss

edit: ok, been reading a bit, cant choose ports in x-boxes, looks like the fixes are very router/firmware specific. I still can't see how the DMZ fix works, but others have it working with just upnp on and x-boxes set to DHCP (not static). Also, no port forwarding, but maybe port triggering would help if the simple upnp doesnt work on your router

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Jun-11 15:28:27)

From what i'm reading it seems the Netgear dgn2000 is a superior router to the echolife 532, so I think I will set that up.

Now for the very 'nooby' question.... wil it be easy enough to set up the Netgear router? I have never done that before and only used routers that were provided with the ISP? I have a wizard set-up disk with the Netgear, not sure if I should use that, or is it easy enough to manually set it up?

Steve

the dgn2000 is the modem aswell so needs setting up to access the talktalk network and your specific talktalk "account"

So you need a password and username, and the various settings for connection at the exchange like 0,38 PPoA etc, i'm sure there must be a sticky here somewhere or easily found on a talktalk site explaining what you need

edit:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/f/2660602-...

gives a phone number that tells you your username/password

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Jun-11 18:15:31)

**UPDATE**

Ok guys I managed to get the Netgear router going Happy days!

When I was using the Echolife router my ping was around 45, with a download speed of about 11meg and and upload of 0.60meg. Now with the Netgear my ping has went down to 35(which is great) my download speed is still the same at around 11meg and my upload has went up to 0.70meg. Oh and both Xbox's now work great, and can both sign on to Xbox live at the same time.

So all in all it has improved my connection, even if just slightly. Does anyone know how to access full router stats on Netgear routers???

This is all I can get:

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 188390 298937 0 3832 72110 01:28:32
LAN 10M/100M 66242 90760 0 9326 1998 01:29:39
WLAN 11M/54M/130M 246456 104415 0 63816 2504 01:29:14

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 12741 kbps 912 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 12.2 db 12.9 db

The information in bold I don't even understand, as I was used to my BT homehub.

Steve

I suggest you pour petrol over the Echolife HG532, set it on fire and then youtube it

On a serious note, if you're not suffering from any disconnections and want to squeeze every last drop from your line with lower pings then ask one of the OCEs on the TalkTalk forum to put you on a 6db/fast path profile, this will increase your download speeds to around 15-16 meg and give you even lower pings

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/index.php

(obviously you'll have to register first)

Ok bad news guys.

So after setting up the Netgear router last night and getting better pings and speeds. I checked again today(bearing in mind I haven't changed anthing since last night) and now the ping is over 50 with alot of packet loss!!!!! and the speed is as low as 2meg! What the hell, it was 11meg last night and everything was running fine!

I don't know what to do! But if this does not improve soon, I will have to cancel TalkTalk and go back with BT. As much as I prefere the faster download speed, I never had problems like this with BT.

Steve

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

Does anyone know how to access full router stats on Netgear routers???

If it's like the DG834GT, try this: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... which should give full stats rather than just Interleaving Status as it says.

Your speed shouldn't decrease from 11meg to 2meg without good reason. talktalk have plenty of bandwidth available so congestion is unlikely to be the issue. Post your line stats and we'll try to help.

I have switched the Netgear router off and on to see if that will fix this, but it has not. The speed is up and down, going from half a meg all the way to 8meg alot of the time, and now when I do a ping test there is alot of packet loss!?!?!?!

As for my line stats, this is the best I could get from the Netgear router:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 12689 kbps 914 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 12.5 db 12.5 db

The phone line is new enough, and have one of those BT Accelerators on it.

Since we have just migrated to TalkTalk on Tuesday, is it possible this is to do with transferring over from BT?? I wouldn't of thought so, since I was getting speeds of around 11meg all this time. There is certainly something wrong anyway, especially since the ping has went up and getting alot of packet loss. Maybe I should leave it for a day or two and see if it sorts itself out?

Any help is much appreciated

Steve

P.S. Here is a quick speed/ping test:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1364919357.png

http://www.pingtest.net/result/42837107.png

Something is very very wrong!

Edited by deleted (Thu 30-Jun-11 17:09:26)

Your line stats seem fine at talktalk's 12db default SNR margin. Now I know you won't be able to connect both xboxes but for testing purposes go back to using the Echolife 532 router for a few days and see if that improves anything. If so, I'm afraid your netgear router is faulty and you should get it replaced or repaired if still under warranty. Also try not to reboot your router (any) too frequently, this will cause the dlm to kick in and increase your SNR margin giving you a lower speed.

I have turned the router on/off quite alot over the last 24hours, especially when I was setting it up last night. Could it be if I leave it for a while it will improve?

I just completed a speed test and speed was up to about 10meg(still a meg short of yesterday) But the ping is still not right. Here is router stats:

Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 12689 kbps 914 kbps
Line Attenuation 31.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 9.7 db 13.2 db

I have not touched anything since this morning, and it seems to of imprived slightly.

Steve

Chances are everything will be back to normal if you leave your router switched on and untouched for a few days. However it might be a good idea to ask one of the OCEs on the TalkTalk forums to switch off DLM on your line, this then gives you the freedom to switch on/off your router as much as you like without affecting anything. I have DLM switched off on my line and never had a problem when rebooting my router umpteen times per day

I'm not too sure what 'DLM' actually means, but I have a question:

If I have turned the router power on/off alot over the past 24hours, would that then make my speed AND ping both fluctuate up and down??? And if so for how long before it stabalises?

Steve

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

I'm not too sure what 'DLM' actually means, but I have a question:

If I have turned the router power on/off alot over the past 24hours, would that then make my speed AND ping both fluctuate up and down??? And if so for how long before it stabalises?

Steve

What is DLM?
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-dlm/23760-what-dl...

If the DLM puts you on a lower speed, it shouldn't affect your ping. This is what you should do:

1) Leave the Netgear router running 24 hrs a day for the next few days without manually rebooting it. If there is nothing wrong with your line/router, then your speed/ping times should be back to normal.

2) If there is no improvement, then follow step 1 again but this time use the supplied Echolife router...that's assuming you didn't take my advice and set it on fire

Ok, the internet was the same today, in terms of packet loss and connection speed going up and down.

Decided to plug the Echolife back in, and straight away speed test hitting 11meg, no problem and ping is now stable at about 40ms.

I still want to use the Netgear router. So i'm going to leave the Echolife router in over the weekend and maybe on Monday/Tuesday will try the Netgear again(although I will reset it completely first) and if the connection goes funny, then i'm afraid it will be the Netgear, and not the Echolife that will be getting burned!

Out of interest what router is anyone else using? I don't want to spend too much on a router, but could afford to pay around £60-£70 for something better than the Echolife???

Steve

I think your Netgear router is faulty, there appears to be nothing wrong with your line. Yes, try the Netgear again in a few days time from factory default settings and see how it performs then. I have a feeling you'll be burying your Netgear in your local cemetry soon

As to which router to replace the Netgear with, i suggest getting the Billion 7700N. Its £50 delivered and is simply the dogs danglies for that price. Use the Billion as your main router and keep the Echolife as a spare router for testing purposes.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-BiPAC-7700N-Wireless...

(and don't forget you can return the Billion to Amazon for a full refund if you're not happy with it within 30 days...just keep the original packaging)

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Jul-11 14:38:02)

frogmella

Is that the router you use? Hopefully the Netgear will work again, as it did for the first few hours I had it up and running.

Steve

No, I'm using the Billion 7800N on my Talktalk line. It's £120 though but if you can afford it then I would highly recommend it....just have a look at the Amazon user reviews!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-BiPAC-7800N-Broadban...

The newly released Billion 7700N is a budget version of the 7800n but it's still a very good router. It doesn't come with gigabit ports and uses a lower spec chipset (Broadcom 6328) than the 7800N (Broadcom 6358).

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Jul-11 18:53:44)

The packet loss points to a badly configured router or failing router, what is your MTU setting , if you don't know what im talking about its probably best you find somebody that does , to configure your router for you .

TalkTalk broadband network has an MTU of 1432 bytes .

Is the packet loss coming from a wired or wireless connection? If the latter, it could be interference, and changing the wireless channel should help with that. Something like inSSIDer can show the amount of congestion across wireless channels and how good your signal is.

In reply to a post by woweebert:

TalkTalk broadband network has an MTU of 1432 bytes .

Not necessarily. It used to be 1400 here, but changed to 1500 after network upgrades a while back.

The packet loss was happening on both wired and wireless.

The thing I thought was funny though, was that when I first got the Netgear set up, it worlked fantastically all night, I mean I was browsing the net and playing on the Xbox and everything was great, steady 11meg speed and pings of 35ms. It was only the next morning that when I checked the ping had went up and the speed was up and down. Surely if there were incorrect settings on the router, then it wouldn't of worked from the start???

Steve

If it was just wireless that was affected the next morning, it still could be router settings. Some routers have an auto channel setting, where they try to choose the best channel available - I have seen BT Homehubs with this feature selecting the worst possible channel though, making wireless completely unusable. So, it can easily happen that a wireless channel may be ok one day, but not another - and if your router is set on auto, then this further complicates things. You need to test with wired to completely rule out a wifi problem, if you haven't done so already.

In the morning when the pings and speeds are bad, what are the router stats then? Has the SNR decreased significently, for example, and does the router indicate that it has resynced during the night (e.g. different connection speed, if there are no logs indicating drops)?

Also, you mentioned a BT accelerator in an earlier post - have you tried removing that? These can often make connections worse rather than better.

In reply to a post by Futaura:

If it was just wireless that was affected the next morning, it still could be router settings. Some routers have an auto channel setting, where they try to choose the best channel available - I have seen BT Homehubs with this feature selecting the worst possible channel though, making wireless completely unusable. So, it can easily happen that a wireless channel may be ok one day, but not another - and if your router is set on auto, then this further complicates things. You need to test with wired to completely rule out a wifi problem, if you haven't done so already.

In the morning when the pings and speeds are bad, what are the router stats then? Has the SNR decreased significently, for example, and does the router indicate that it has resynced during the night (e.g. different connection speed, if there are no logs indicating drops)?

Also, you mentioned a BT accelerator in an earlier post - have you tried removing that? These can often make connections worse rather than better.

Thanks for your reply.

There was not any change on router stats. It was the same as when the connection was great. I tried the speed/ping tests both wired and wireless and they were both similar, with speeds going up and down and packet loss with the ping. As soon as I changed back to the Echolife router the ping was stable again with no packet loss and the speed was steady over 10meg, again this was tried both wired and wirelessly.

Only real conclusion I can come to is that there was a problem with the Netgear router, but it seems strange that I had a good 5 hours of the Netgear router working perfectly???

When I set up the Netgear I did not change any settings or anything, just added the username and password on the Netgear router settings, then set up the SSID name and password for wireless. No other settings were touched by me and I just let the Netgear Wizard set the rest up, but as I said before, it worked great and my ping was low, speed stable and upload speed was nearly 0.8meg.

the echolife has been back in now since friday morning, and no problems(other than the 2 Xbox's) Speed and ping are both stable. So I will wait a few more days, make sure my connection is fine(which i'm pretty sure it is) and try the Netgear again. It will just be annoying if I set it up, the speeds and ping is great again, then a day later it goes downhill! If that happens again, then we will know it is a router problem.

Steve

P.S. Here is my line stats with the Echolife:

Line Status Help

Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 856
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 13496
Line standard ADSL2+
Channel type Interleaved
Upstream SNR (dB) 13.3
Downstream SNR (dB) 10.5
Upstream interleave depth 2
Downstream interleave depth 64
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 16.8
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 30
Upstream output power (dBmV) 11.5
Downstream output power (dBmV) 0
Upstream CRC 16942
Downstream CRC 65504
Upstream FEC 34912
Downstream FEC 0

Edited by deleted (Sat 02-Jul-11 23:38:26)

Still, do try removing the BT accelerator - it may improve your overall speed, ironically. Have you checked the Netgear software version - is it the latest? A quick google says 1.1.11.0 is the latest version (http://support.netgear.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1...).