Talktalk FTTP problem with no Digital voice

Hi folks,

I'm not sure if anyone can shed any light on what is the problem here but here goes anyways.

I was on a FTTC package with Talktalk and in February 2020 they cabled the area for FTTP and I was invited to do a trial of a 110 mbits FTTP which I accepted. The old package i.e FTTC also ran as a backup with the landline and internet through the old master socket,

Obvious for these last 30 months I have been using the internet through the ONT with an average download speed of 106mbits. The trial was supposed to last for six months but then was extended to a year, and after that I heard nothing more about it, while still being charged for the cheaper FTTC package.

Fast forward to July of this year and I decided to upgrade to their future Fibre 150 with digital voice on a new 18 month contract..

The go live date has come and gone with no digital voice on the service, and no increase in download speed still averaging 106mbits as on the trial.

I have been in contact with Talktalk Future Fibre Team, and Tech support on numerous occasions, have been given hope that they have diagnosed the problem, one guy said that each premises has a different reference number and mine doesn't seem to match where I live, another guy said that part of the order wasn't finalised.

As well as this I have the added problem of only my old FTTC package still showing on my account and it keeps prompting me to renew my contract, I expect a mess up in billing on my next billing date as that will show out of contract prices.

An Openreach engineer was out and says the ONT is a solid build and all appears correct from the Openreach side, and the problem is with Talktalk's end.

I have given up hope of Talktalk Future Fibre team or Tech support being able to solve this and I seem to be going around in circles doing the same old things resetting router etc, and even the Telephone conversation ending abruptly with a dead line.

I am very lucky in the sense that the old landline still works through the old master socket, and the internet speed through the ONT is good.

I am using the old type of large ONT used a few years ago that will take a battery pack, The router is a Talktalk Hub 2.0 with a test telephone plugged into the back green socket, for Digital voice which of course doesn't work. I did try the Eero router, same problem but much prefer Talktalks Wi Fi hub 2.0.

The Openreach engineer says that the ONT seems to be working fine.

A difficult one this I know, sometimes I think that it may well be one of the settings pertaining to the FTTP trial that is somehow affecting the Future Fibre service.

Any ideas appreciated.
Thanks a lot
Joe

Edited by joemardo1 (Thu 01-Sep-22 16:10:04)

I have given up hope of Talktalk Future Fibre team or Tech support being able to solve this and I seem to be going around in circles doing the same old things resetting router etc, and even the Telephone conversation ending abruptly with a dead line.

Sounds very much like a TT account / provisioning issue that they are unwilling to expend the effort to investigate and properly resolve.

An option, possibly extreme, possibly not (depending on your point of view) is to port out the landline number to another provider (before TalkTalk lose it in some further administrative fudge).

This would have the effect of ceasing the *entire* bundled broadband service FTTP and landline - but at least then you would be clear of the the FTTP muddle AND retain the landline number.

Start then afresh / a clean sheet with a new FTTP provider contract (just for data) AND keep your landline number (on an indy VoiP provider). The main downside here is that there will be a gap in your broadband service until you could recommence the 'new' FTTP broadband service with the new provider.

Just an option to consider. Not saying its the best way of clearing the mess.

As Pheasant says it sound like a fudge now, possibly the free FTTP trial wasn't setup correct in the first instance. I would be wanting to start a fresh and if the landline number is important to you I would be getting it out of harms way as soon as I could.

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Sep-22 17:48:06)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

. . . The main downside here is that there will be a gap in your broadband service until you could recommence the 'new' FTTP broadband service with the new provider. . . .

If there is an adequate mobile signal that downside could be mitigated.

Thanks folks for the replies.

The landline is important in the sense that I have always got a good enough deal with Talktalk in this new Future Fibre 150 package I do get 24 months all uk and mobiles calls free.

And it does work through the old master socket, as Talktalk do have the old package only still active in my account, rather than the new FF150 package.

A strong possibility this is going to lead to overcharging on my next billing date of 8 Sept, as I am still prompted when I login to my account to renew old contract which runs out on the 17 Sept, I can imagine they will refund, but still don't want that to be a problem every month.

Of course we can live without the landline so wouldn't go to the trouble of porting it to another provider.

just wondering,

1 If I was to leave Talktalk in the future for another ISP, what are the chances that somehow a setting from Talktalk could carry over to the new ISP preventing them from giving me the speed of the package I signed up for?

2 Wouldn't you think that with a 150 mbits package I should be getting a higher speed than 106 average?

This is an image of the ONT that I have from 2020, it has a Tel1 light that is not lit, though Openreach engineer says the ONT is ok as PON is solidly lit.

My Ont

Edited by joemardo1 (Thu 01-Sep-22 18:44:05)

In answer to your queries.

1. No. The profile etc is not carried over from ISP to ISP. A new profile will be applied by Opnreach at the time the new FTTP service is commissioned.

2. Possibly yes, although this may also be down to your internal network / WiFi especially or indeed your devices laptops/PCs etc. In short it could be either or - would need further testing and investigation to be sure.

3. Image of the ONT and LEDs is fine. Tel1 light is not lit as you are not in receipt of FVA (fibre voice access) via the ONT for telephony, but instead via the copper pair from your master socket. So this is perfectly fine.

In reply to a post by joemardo1:

Fast forward to July of this year and I decided to upgrade to their future Fibre 150 with digital voice on a new 18 month contract..

AFAIK TalkTalk's 'digital voice', is not universally available, and even if it was it's very unlikely to be by connecting to ONT, it will be throu router.
Also AFAIK from the end of trial a combined copper and FTTP wouldn't normally be offered, this was a sticking point for me moving to FTTP and one reason I swapped to TalkTalk Business. Even then after several months TT cut off my phone and for some time kept telling me I had never had any sort of phone contract, as I pointed out to them I had email confirmation and listed on their website where all the phone calls I had made.
As Pheasant says, if you have the opportunity to port number without penalty to a 3rd party VoIP provider, then do it before TalkTalk 'loses' number, as you run risk of loosing number which could be a PITA if people contact you on that number.

Thanks for the clarification Pheasant.

Pleasure. Good luck.

In reply to a post by burble:

AFAIK TalkTalk's 'digital voice', is not universally available,

It is now.

and even if it was it's very unlikely to be by connecting to ONT, it will be throu router.

Not just unlikely, but impossible.
FVA was withdrawn long before Talktalk even started trialling Openreach FTTP.

I'm not aware of any ISP's who used FVA (voice via the ONTs TEL port) other than BT.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 02-Sep-22 16:00:14)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by burble:

AFAIK TalkTalk's 'digital voice', is not universally available,

It is now.

and even if it was it's very unlikely to be by connecting to ONT, it will be throu router.

Not just unlikely, but impossible.
FVA was withdrawn long before Talktalk even started trialling Openreach FTTP.

I'm not aware of any ISP's who used FVA (voice via the ONTs TEL port) other than BT.

Just did a online order and this came up.

We’re sorry but at the moment our Future Fibre data only packages don’t support a landline.

We do have some other great options for you.

Call us today

08000496253

Small Print

p.s. to OP, when 'we' mention TalkTalk "loosing" number, that's it number gone, many have found they are unable to get this number back by any means, if people use it as a contact for you then that can be a problem.

Edited by burble (Fri 02-Sep-22 20:52:41)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by burble:

AFAIK TalkTalk's 'digital voice', is not universally available,

It is now.

Its not for my post code when checking on their web site.

Real dumb question, but ….

Is there a phone jack on the back of the TT router connected to the ONT ?

That would be where I would test for the voice service.


Otherwise, sounds like a TT issue to me … maybe they have the wrong ONT serial number down on record for you ? …. It would be correct with Openreach, as you have had a visit from them.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Is there a phone jack on the back of the TT router connected to the ONT ?

In reply to a post by joemardo1:

The router is a Talktalk Hub 2.0 with a test telephone plugged into the back green socket, for Digital voice which of course doesn't work. I did try the Eero router, same problem but much prefer Talktalks Wi Fi hub 2.0.

The OP has a legacy Talk Talk router plugged in at present that has a telephone plug on the back, the standard Eero that is supplied with Talk Talk FTTP now a days does not come with a telephone jack so if Talk Talk are doing Digital voice then the OP needs to go back to Talk Talk to confirm what their current solution is.

Yes I have the phone plugged into the back of the router.

I do think that in effect its still the Trial that is still running on my network and though Talktalk may feel that they have activated the Future Fibre 150, they really haven't because of the Trial settings.

Sometimes I even feel that if I was to ask Talktalk to cut my internet off, it would probably still work as they don't really have a handle on whats going on.

Not sure if there is any thing specific I can ask them to try as the reasons FF150 is not working can be many and varied.

The OP has a legacy Talk Talk router plugged in at present that has a telephone plug on the back, the standard Eero that is supplied with Talk Talk FTTP now a days does not come with a telephone jack so if Talk Talk are doing Digital voice then the OP needs to go back to Talk Talk to confirm what their current solution is.

I didn’t know that was case, so if TT offer the service, I wonder how it’s provided for use ??

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

if TT offer the service, I wonder how it’s provided for use ??

It will be interesting to find out, I can only guess its via a separate ATA but could be totally wrong

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The OP has a legacy Talk Talk router plugged in at present that has a telephone plug on the back, the standard Eero that is supplied with Talk Talk FTTP now a days does not come with a telephone jack so if Talk Talk are doing Digital voice then the OP needs to go back to Talk Talk to confirm what their current solution is.

I didn’t know that was case, so if TT offer the service, I wonder how it’s provided for use ??

Either an ATA or a new version of their router:

https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Digital...
https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Set-up-...

In reply to a post by joemardo1:

Yes I have the phone plugged into the back of the router.

I do think that in effect its still the Trial that is still running on my network and though Talktalk may feel that they have activated the Future Fibre 150, they really haven't because of the Trial settings.

Sometimes I even feel that if I was to ask Talktalk to cut my internet off, it would probably still work as they don't really have a handle on whats going on.

Not sure if there is any thing specific I can ask them to try as the reasons FF150 is not working can be many and varied.

I wouldn't expect the phone port on the TT Hub 2.0 to work until and unless TT have migrated the landline number from copper pair (unless of course they have provisioned a separate new number, which is doubtful given than your were 'trialling' the FTTP service).

As the FTTP service is on a "trial" basis, they presumably are still only charging you for the FTTC+landline, not the FTTP. I think you said as much.

Sounds like the muddle regrading the FTTP service is with it NOT actually being an explicit service on your account - that is one that you are actually paying for.

I think you have three options to get this resolved:

1. Persist with TT and get them to release the FTTP circuit from "trial" and get this properly added on your account as a discrete service (so that your actually paying for it) & ask them to transfer the copper landline number to their VoiP. There is a risk they could 'lose' the number here, but your sound like you're not bothered by that.

2. Port the landline number to an external VoIP provider. This will cease *all* 'bundled' services on your account including of course the copper landline, FTTC (and also the trial FTTP).

3. Attempt a migration of the FTTP service to another provider. The full outcome here is unclear as technically you don't have this as a discrete service / are actually paying for the FTTP service currently. The FTTP would be migrated to the new ISP, where you could choose a new package/speed tier. I'd expect the FTTC and landline would also quite likely be cancelled and the landline number lost (unless your asked the new FTTP ISP to port it to them in the first instance with the FTTP migration order) - however it may not be the case, as technically its not part of your billed account....

Thanks Pheasant for that detailed reply.

The thing with Talktalk as probably with other ISP's is if your services are working the way they should then everything is fine, and their prices are ok too.

This new contract 18 months with FF150 is supposed to cost me £26 a month, that's with anytime UK calls thrown in.

They were charging me previously £23.95 a month for fibre 65 (plus anytime calls) but obviously I was using the FTTP trial.and copper for landline .

They seemed to be having trouble giving me an extension on the free anytime calls, and I know the copper line is due to be switched off my 2025 anyway so decided to take the plunge and upgrade for just a little more.

I have called Talktalk several times but lately their Future Fibre team have simply dropped the phone at their side, which is really annoying as I have always been polite when dealing with them, so complained about this, and someone is supposed to call me back by Wednesday coming. I await with bated breath...

Your option 1 seems to be the most attractive one for me to take at the moment.

Even if they sort my account out for me, i.e put the Future Fibre 150 on it rather than the old fibre 65 which will be out of contract on 17 Sept and would lead to an overcharge each month, that would be at least something. One guy in billing told me there is a way to do a forced upgrade of accounts.

Probably if I was never to get the full FF150 speed I would be happy enough to live with what is on the trial which averages 106 mbits.

There is a strong possibility they would leave the old copper landline in place so that would be a plus until 2025 when its switched off.

Probably a bit sorry now I ever signed up to the FTTP trial with them in the first place, they were more than helpful when dealing with them at that time.

Probably one of the things that is bugging me at the moment is the dropping of the phone at their side and seemingly lack of caring one way or the other..

The joys of Technology.

Edited by joemardo1 (Mon 05-Sep-22 10:49:21)

I would suggest that the sales have 'made a mistake', I went throu a similar fiasco with them. The price you have been given looks like data only 'discount' sales give.

Its definitely anytime calls free for 24 months, got the email, but as I might well end up with no landline that doesn't mean a lot.

If you get it at that price, well done, but I suspect sales have once again cocked up and will be back tracking on that.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

2. Port the landline number to an external VoIP provider. This will cease *all* 'bundled' services on your account including of course the copper landline, FTTC (and also the trial FTTP).

I'm not sure that's *necessarily* true. I'd only expect it to cease the copper landline and any services directly dependent on that copper landline.

(For example, if you had two copper lines on the same account, and you migrated one of them to VOIP, I wouldn't expect it to affect the second copper line)

If you were left as an FTTP trialist, without any pay-for services, they certainly could decide to cut you off. But I don't think that would be an automated process.

It was actually from the loyalty department, we did agree £26 but for some reason the email says total each month is £10, not going to try to hold them to that.

I think most would agree I have enough problems with Talktalk getting the fibre deal actually going live..

https://ibb.co/tX6BNDy

Edited by joemardo1 (Mon 05-Sep-22 20:09:56)

They are part of 'sales and loyalty team', looks like whoever you spoke to messed up. I suspect what they should have offered you was £26 for FTTP, they then tried to add in a discounted phone package, on FTTC (if discounting) this would be £10. Over the years I've had some 'interesting' conversations with TalkTalk, sometimes even the CEO's office struggle to get to grips with their systems and what actually available. In fact at one stage I was directly communicating with one of the directors and he was struggling to understand what was going on.

Thanks Burble,

Seems you have a fair amount of experience of dealing with problems with Talktalk,

Taking Pheasants number 1 option to carry on trying to get it solved with Talktalk would you recommend writing a letter or what to Head office ?

I seem to not be getting any place quickly dealing with the Future Fibre team.

I'll give you an example, I rang on a day last week on landline and got speaking to someone there, seemed to be polite enough and was dealing with the problem, they my mobile rang, excused myself for a few secs to answer it, a silent call, they the landline went deal, got another call on landline, another silent call.

Rang the number to see who it was, was of course Talktalk, sorry you were not in.

Rang again a day or so later, notes were left on account that I was cut off on initial call, they tried to contact me, but no answer.

The paranoid side of me seems to think that the rep did the calls just to get rid of me
One of the things they seem to be trying to do is escalate it, but it will take 10 days or so to get the back room ops to sort it out.

Edited by joemardo1 (Mon 05-Sep-22 22:22:29)

In reply to a post by joemardo1:

The paranoid side of me seems to think that the rep did the calls just to get rid of me

If this is what you are up against with Talk Talk why are you not on your bike? you can probably get a better deal from another provider through a cashback website.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

2. Port the landline number to an external VoIP provider. This will cease *all* 'bundled' services on your account including of course the copper landline, FTTC (and also the trial FTTP).

I'm not sure that's *necessarily* true. I'd only expect it to cease the copper landline and any services directly dependent on that copper landline.

(For example, if you had two copper lines on the same account, and you migrated one of them to VOIP, I wouldn't expect it to affect the second copper line)

If you were left as an FTTP trialist, without any pay-for services, they certainly could decide to cut you off. But I don't think that would be an automated process.

If this was a completely separate FTTP service, discretely billed or properly noted as such on the account, I think your logic stands.

However my read of the situation, is that the FTTP is “invisible” on the account - a trial service that’s essentially linked to the underlying FTTC+landline service on the account. Possibly one of the reasons TalkTalk are having such trouble getting their own ordering systems to recognise it properly and upgrade it.

Would it survive as a stand-alone in a porting request / cease ? Knowing TalkTalk service and billing myself, I wouldn’t bet my house on it.

Yep, you are right, I have just been on to them and they have cancelled the FF150 upgrade, so looks like I will have to have a look around for a new provider.

They did offer some adsl package with credits for a call package, but I have had enough of Talktalk.

I am tempted to wait and see if they will actually switch off the FTTP trial, since it seems they had so much problems upgrading it officially, but probably that is one thing they will manage to do successfully.

Contract is due to run out on 17 Sept so I am not sure of earliest date I can sign up to a new provider.

Update

Loyalty say the order is cancelled, and later today I rang Future Fibre department to have this confirmed and have been told the order is NOT cancelled. You couldn't really make it up could you.

What a company Talktalk is!

Edited by joemardo1 (Tue 06-Sep-22 22:08:43)