Wiring help urgently needed please :~)

Hi All

I hope this is the best fora to ask for this sort of help???

I would appreciate your help and guidance as follows:-

Firstly, where I started from! I have the iPlate and into that my microfilter and the usual connection of my phone wiring i.e. the BT Plug and the RJ11 which I had run up to the upstairs bedroom office where I connected a flying BT connector using the full wire set (green, white, red & blue) into this was linked a short BT to BT cable into my surge protection which has a BT plug "in" and a BT plug "out". From the BT "out" I have a BT plug to RJ11 adaptor with lead to the Thomson 585v7 input.

This has been fine but now the question that needs your help & guidance

We had various mains wiring done today (nothing to do with the Broadband just extra sockets and an outside light) and whilst the floorboards were up I asked the guys to allow me to reroute my BT cable that comes through the floorboards... no problem but the one that was helping me commented about the "BT cable" not being the best i.e. the flat type. He offered to run me some Twisted Pair type of cable ~ great very helpfull person ~ now my question???

This twisted pair cable has the following 3 pairs in it - Green with white splodges/white with green splodges : Orange with White splodges/White with Orange splodges : Blue with White splodges/White with Blue splodges. I hope that makes sense.

So just how do I wire this new cable up because AFAIK (looking at the cable that attaches to the Router) has just two wires on the central two connectors of the RJ11 plugs?

I have some BT 4 way plugs (431A type) which I will need to attach one of in the office/bedroom to plug this into my surge protection. At the other end though I need an RJ11 to plug into the microfilter but as mentioned I only have the crimping tool for the BT 431A plug and the last time I looked a tool to crimp the RJ11 is very expensive so hope to attach the other BT 431A plug and get a 431A to RJ11 adaptor But how do I use the twisted pair cable to make the cable up i.e. do I use one pair separated and cut off the other two pairs at the sheath (if so which colour is the convention to use?) or do you keep the twisted pairs in pairs and attach the all three 'pairs' to their own connectors in the BT 431A plugs.....just a tad confused!

Many thanks in advance for some detailed guidance on how to treat the "pairs" sets and which connectors to connect to in the 431A plug i.e. 2,3,4,5 ???

blue to 2, white/blue to 5, orange to 3. That's all you need.

In my opinion, I'd not be putting the line through the surge protection at all. Just terminate the cable upstairs in a 'normal' extension socket, and plug the lead to the router into a microfilter there.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/images/faq/faceplates/...

Take a peek, suspect cable will look similar to this.

Blue with White splodges/White with Blue splodges connect to pins 2 and pins 5 respectively and then in same pins at the other end

I would suggest wiring the cable they fit to like the one in the photo and wire it into a socket like http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_in... for which the backbox is included in the £8.99.

A little more than the usual microfilter, but neat and tidy

Or if worried, I would suggest checking without the surge protector to see if it makes a difference.

The master socket should have some protection built into it already

Hi Zarjaz and Andrew

Many thanks for the rapid reply, much appreciated

Yes, the picture linked to does look like the cable given to me. I surmise not linking the other one of the orange pair is the bell wire position so unneeded.

Edit - do actually need the "orange" wired to position 3 ??? I have forgot to say Andrews wiring is the same but for the Orange being used???

The reason I am sensitive about surge protection was before we had the new NTE5 BT faceplate style socket we had a lightning strike locally - it struck a nearish neighbours satellite dish and blew out the phones lines isn something like 20 houses in the area, ours included (at that time this was pre BB) I was FRIACO and the surge protection saved my Modem and the phone etc. Risk aware I hope rather than risk averse!

I think for convenience now I will wire up using the two 341A plugs and as suggested make plans to place a filtered socket as pointed to.

Thanks one again for the qualified feedback

Edit - for record as noted the smaller RJ11 has two wires and these are connected to the 2 central connectors whereas the BT plug wiring advised uses the outer most connectors, do I surmise rightly that the BT to RJ11 adaptor (and vice versa) join up appropriately - a blindingly obvioous question for sure but jsut looking at the pin out positions on the adaptor it looks counter intuative ???

PS On a just about related note ~ as part of the (re)wiring we now have a new consumer board with MCB's and RCD protection. In my chat with the electrician he said that compared to old style wired fuses these are a lot less tolerant of very small changes in the house wiring and where an old wired fuse would be OK an MCB can 'break' thus causing loss of power in the house so he suggested getting a UPS (was on my plans for a while because we do get at least once a year outages). So any thoughts as to best make & model number to look at???

Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Oct-10 00:03:36)

That picture is standard wiring. ring wire would be pin 3 and if you have an iplate connected or not should make no difference.

Have used MCB for years in properties, and they generally only flip if you have some dodgy equipment.

UPS - use laptops for that and 200Ah of 12 Battery charged via solar power if it gets bad.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

That picture is standard wiring. ring wire would be pin 3 and if you have an iplate connected or not should make no difference.

Have used MCB for years in properties, and they generally only flip if you have some dodgy equipment.

UPS - use laptops for that and 200Ah of 12 Battery charged via solar power if it gets bad.

Ah! just pins 2 and 5 it is then

Ref: MCBs fair comment and their comprehensive checks revealed an odd fault (neutral to earth on a fused spur for the central heating) sorted AOK

Hmmmm! UPS only for desktop systems for sure

Right, I have found what is called a BT to US adaptor at Maplins i.e. BT Plug to RJ11

Link here http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=12492

Hi guys

I have now connected up and for the record:-

Before I shutdown I was synced at 3904 for something over 14 days

However, new sync came up as 3008, thinks try new Gateway. Resync'ed and got 2944

Oh well, must be patient and let the dreaded DLM see what it makes of the 'improved' wiring.

Thanks once agin for the help & pointers

2 and 5 only, the bell wire just becomes an aerial and picks up any [censored] throughout your house.

ensure that you use an extension socket to terminate the wire in and not a master...dead easy to tell, there are no additional components on the pcb of an extension.

the dslam may cut back sync speed if it sees a disconnection so give it time

Yes, 2 & 5 only as advised by Andrew - other pairs cut off at the stripped back point of the outer sheath

As mentioned until I get the final layout of the office/bedroom sorted I have used a flying lead ending. So will 'wire' up again later using an extension type socket.

I understand the DLM likes to pause for breath but most latterly the sync has been nicely over 3000 even when a need to power down meant a resync.....we shall see how the DLM does its job over the next few days......not that uncommon to have a stuck profile

In reply to a post by andyboygsi:

2 and 5 only, the bell wire just becomes an aerial and picks up any [censored] throughout your house.

ensure that you use an extension socket to terminate the wire in and not a master...dead easy to tell, there are no additional components on the pcb of an extension.

the dslam may cut back sync speed if it sees a disconnection so give it time

Why do people do this, and cut the wires off. this makes any future work difficult, they simply need to be lifted and tucked out of the way

i second that, lost count of the number of times i could have done with a spare pair and some one had previously cut of all spare copper

Hi both

Yes, could not agree more ~ if I had used a 'proper' wall mounted socket I would have (will do ) just laid back the spare "pairs" but as mentioned I have crimped connected a BT 431A plug at each end......I am not aware of any value is leaving the spare "pairs" hanging out of the back of the plug.



PS Just another thought/question......I have enough extra length on the cable to windup maybe a couple of metres. Will it be detrimental to coil this up and tuck away ???

For the record after 1 day the connection log shows:-

xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 2944 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 18.5 dBm, Up: 11.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 55.0 dB, Up: 31.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 19.0 dB)

So as at SNR 6.5 holding and if it stays at that 6db bracket the DLM should lift the sync speed above the current 2944 though if it does not lift sometime in the next 72hours would it be best to request a check for a stuck profile or just reboot the router???

Before this reboot and on the older flat wire connection I was on 3904 with if I recall margin of 9db ???

How is the DLM going to give you more speed? 6dB margin is usually the lowest target that they will set.

It is not really clear whether you have made any improvements, since you used to have a higher sync at one time

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

How is the DLM going to give you more speed? 6dB margin is usually the lowest target that they will set.

It is not really clear whether you have made any improvements, since you used to have a higher sync at one time

That's just what I was thinking. He's made it worse, instead of better.

Errrr! a Homer Simpson moment for me perhaps? Now why would using what is perceived as much improved wiring have a detrimental effect???

Just thought I would do a BT speedtest, results:-

Download speedachieved during the test was - 2296 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2944 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2500 Kbps

Also just checked that my ISP has 'recorded' stable rate as the same (I have seen mismatches in the past) and it says 2500 as well.

Edited by deleted (Sun 24-Oct-10 01:59:39)

Because there was a post saying http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/t/3918088... sync of 3900Kbps at sometime.

Which would be fine for the attenuation, current sync is OK but erring on the low side for the sync.

The stable rate is actually the lowest speed seen in the first 10 days of the lines lifetime, i.e. you should normally be exceeding this speed.

Hi All

An update for you

After over 4 days at 2944 sync at 6.5 db margin I decided something was stuck and did a reboot of the router this morning.

This was the log entry for the startup

xDSL linestate up (ITU-T G.992.1; downstream: 3488 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.0 dBm, Up: 11.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 55.0 dB, Up: 31.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 6.5 dB, Up: 18.0 dB)

As you can see now sync'ed at 3488 for the same margin, this will or should over the next 72 hours raise my IP from 2500 to 3000 ~ checked the BT speedtester this morning just to confirm it was (still) 2500. So a watch this space situation for the next few days???

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In my opinion, I'd not be putting the line through the surge protection at all.

Hmmm. A debatable point.

In a summer thunderstorm a couple of years ago, lighting struck a nearby house, taking out loads of nearby routers with it.

I have two lines here and at the time I had two Draytek 2600VG routers on one each - but only one line had a surge protector.

Anybody want a mostly dead 2600VG - no VoIP, no Wireless (and it runs very hot)

In reply to a post by Sandgrounder:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

In my opinion, I'd not be putting the line through the surge protection at all.

Hmmm. A debatable point.

In a summer thunderstorm a couple of years ago, lighting struck a nearby house, taking out loads of nearby routers with it.

I have two lines here and at the time I had two Draytek 2600VG routers on one each - but only one line had a surge protector.

Anybody want a mostly dead 2600VG - no VoIP, no Wireless (and it runs very hot)

Glad someone else agrees with me ~ the event I reported about, one of our neighbours was on the phone at the time and he had a minor injury as a result of the phone 'going west' in his hand. I would not willingly leave sensitive equipment unprotected even though the chances of such "major" size be very rare but all it takes to destroy the kit and valuable data is that one event!

Oh, our pre NTE5 socket showed signs of fry/burn damage and the surge protector worked because it no longer had one of the "I am working OK" lights aglow Cheaper to get another protector than big £££'s for the router & PC etc!