ISP recommendations - best for reliability?

Hi,

I live in hope that I will eventually get a MAC from TalkTalk, at which point I need to select a new ISP. My exchange appears to be one of the exchanges that BT forgot - it's Hook. The only LLU is TalkTalk.

What I'm looking for is reliable speed. I'm just over a mile from the exchange and in the good days of freedom2surf, I could get close to the 8Mbs promised. Since Tiscali I've been lucky to get 4Mbs and with TalkTalk I occasionally get less than 0.5.

I'd like to get back to getting close to 8 again, consistently. We download between 40-60 gig a month, most of that in the evenings. I do occasionally work from home. I don't care very much about price. I also don't mind p2p throttling if necessary.

I was looking at aaisp, but am slightly worried about the peak time limits. However, it appears many of the other smaller isp's offer larger peak time limits but the peak extends in to the evening, which is when the bulk of our traffic happens.

Any suggestions?

Sarah

I suggest choosing from the following, all of which are monthly contract. Note that on all of them your upload speed will be 448kbps or 832kbps, depending on package. Above 832kbps is only possible on WBC-enabled exchanges:-

Vivaciti Family 30 or Family 60, perhaps Office 45. These are all Entanet based;
IDNet Home Max or Supermax - note the 832 upload on that;
Zen Active or Pro. I think they also have some packages with 832 upload.

See these comparisons.

I assume you have ISP-independent email so that won't be a problem.

Just joined aaisp last week. So far, no issues at all. Yes, base package for them (on a 21CN connection) only allows for 4Gb of peak-time traffic per month, but this doesn't bother me as I'm out at work most week days anyway. And this isn't really a limit per say. If you go over, they will charge you a bit more. The other option is to change the base package and buy more units per month instead (there is a price calculator on their site).

As someone else has already posted, there are many alternative ISPs to choose from. Guess its just a question of what you're looking for.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I suggest choosing from the following, all of which are monthly contract. Note that on all of them your upload speed will be 448kbps or 832kbps, depending on package. Above 832kbps is only possible on WBC-enabled exchanges:-

Vivaciti Family 30 or Family 60, perhaps Office 45. These are all Entanet based;
IDNet Home Max or Supermax - note the 832 upload on that;
Zen Active or Pro. I think they also have some packages with 832 upload.

See these comparisons.

I assume you have ISP-independent email so that won't be a problem.

Roberto: Why not one of the adsl2+ surfwise packages offered by Vivaciti?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I suggest choosing from the following, all of which are monthly contract. Note that on all of them your upload speed will be 448kbps or 832kbps, depending on package. Above 832kbps is only possible on WBC-enabled exchanges:-

Vivaciti Family 30 or Family 60, perhaps Office 45. These are all Entanet based;
IDNet Home Max or Supermax - note the 832 upload on that;
Zen Active or Pro. I think they also have some packages with 832 upload.

See these comparisons.

I assume you have ISP-independent email so that won't be a problem.

Roberto: Why not one of the adsl2+ surfwise packages offered by Vivaciti?

Have you checked to see if the exchange is 21CN?

If you do you'll find the answer to your question

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Roberto: Why not one of the adsl2+ surfwise packages offered by Vivaciti?

Because I was thinking the OP wouldn't be happy with a package from TalkTalk Business Wholesale.

Surfwise Complete would be Full LLU as well, which I hardly ever recommend. It and Surfwise Variety have the TT 100GB FUP and P2P throttling unless the Surfwise Fileshare option is added, but looking at Sarah's post those restrictions may be acceptable.

Having said that, yes, you are right. The OP does have those available and if the line could do over 8Mbps they may be worth her thinking about.

@Sarah - Anon has a point, if you have a shortish line, which it seems you do. You may be able to get high speeds on Surfwise. The wholesale packages should be better than TT direct, in the same way as many ISPs on BT Wholesale are better than BT Broadband.

If interested, please try to find and post your line stats - see here for help.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 27-Mar-11 00:39:11)

Thanks for all the good advice everyone. Apologies for the delay in answering, but in odd timing, my broadband has been down all week.

I've had a look at the isp's mentioned.
Vivaciti - only the business 100 package would work - 95% of our downloading is between 6pm and midnight, and if this time is included in the peak time limits, it might as well be the total download limit.
IDNet has much the same problem, although larger limits. Their home max might work.
Zen so far looks very positive.

I could be interested in a package from a reseller, but only if I'm going to get substantial speed improvements. My modem is unfortunately not mentioned in the list, but I think I've managed to get the stats you mentioned below.

Actual Data Rate - Up Stream 832 (Kbps.), Down Stream 8128 (Kbps.)
Noise Margin - Upstream (15dB), Downstream (6dB)
Attentuation - Upstream (15dB), Downstream (25dB)

The only errors mentioned that aren't at 0 are
Interleaved Path FEC Correction - Near End Indicator 748, Far End indicator 248561
Interleaved Path CRC Error - Near End Indicator 7, Far End Indicator 422

What do you think?

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Apr-11 18:01:33)

In reply to a post by SarahS:

Actual Data Rate - Up Stream 832 (Kbps.), Down Stream 8128 (Kbps.)
Noise Margin - Upstream (15dB), Downstream (6dB)
Attentuation - Upstream (15dB), Downstream (25dB)

What do you think?

Going by your stats it appears Talktalk have not moved you over to their ADSL2+ (LLU) service, you are still on their BT (spit) ip-stream based ADSL1 which is a up to 8 meg service and is [censored]. On their ADSL2+ you should get at least 16 meg sync. Best thing to do is register on Talktalk's forum and ask to be put on their ADSL2+ service. The OCE's should be able to do this (assuming there is capacity on your exchange).

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

you are still on their BT (spit) ip-stream based ADSL1 which is a up to 8 meg service and is [censored].

No, otherwise UP Sync would be 448.

OP most likely on ADSL2+ LLU capped to 8 Meg.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

you are still on their BT (spit) ip-stream based ADSL1 which is a up to 8 meg service and is [censored].

No, otherwise UP Sync would be 448.

OP most likely on ADSL2+ LLU capped to 8 Meg.

Perhaps talktalk have wrongly put her on ADSL1 max premium which has max upload of 832kb? I say this because if she was on ADSL2+ her upload would be 1019kbps on that attenuation, irrespective of her download sync rate.

OP, best thing to do is post on the talktalk member forums, ask them to move you over to the "up to 24 meg" service. They will also troubleshoot your speed issues.

Edited by deleted (Sun 03-Apr-11 19:07:27)

I'm fairly sure TalkTalk have not yet moved me over to LLU. I didn't mention this, because this isn't the correct place to complain, but somewhere in the migration from freedom2surf, to tiscali to talktalk business, something has gone very wrong. While TalkTalk are currently providing me with broadband, there customer service team doesn't recognise me as a customer, and is insistent that I haven't been a customer since 2008. They aren't currently billing me either. Each time I call them, the situation gets more confusing ( and funny) and there doesn't seem to be anyone who can sort it out.

I'm hoping that migration to somewhere else for a while will sort out the problem as I currently can't see any other way. I'm also concerned that requesting a move to LLU requires a 12 month contract, and I have no knowledge that speed is going to get any better - after all, I'm clearly capable of getting much higher speeds than I currently am.

Are the talktalk member forums actually useful?

In reply to a post by SarahS:

I'm fairly sure TalkTalk have not yet moved me over to LLU. I didn't mention this, because this isn't the correct place to complain, but somewhere in the migration from freedom2surf, to tiscali to talktalk business, something has gone very wrong. While TalkTalk are currently providing me with broadband, there customer service team doesn't recognise me as a customer, and is insistent that I haven't been a customer since 2008. They aren't currently billing me either. Each time I call them, the situation gets more confusing ( and funny) and there doesn't seem to be anyone who can sort it out.

I'm hoping that migration to somewhere else for a while will sort out the problem as I currently can't see any other way. I'm also concerned that requesting a move to LLU requires a 12 month contract, and I have no knowledge that speed is going to get any better - after all, I'm clearly capable of getting much higher speeds than I currently am.

Are the talktalk member forums actually useful?

Since you are with TalkTalk business, then a sync of 8128/832 kbps means you are defintely on an ip-stream max premium service (ie upload is up to 832 kbps rather than the residential 448 kbps). Have you tried calling TalkTalk business on 0800 083 3003 or 0800 298 6725 to regrade you? I believe they use UK support staff over the phone. Alternatively send them a mnessage here:
https://www.mytalktalkbusiness.co.uk/support/

Officially the talktalk forums are only for residential customers, HOWEVER i know 1 or 2 mods on there and i may be able to pass your query onto them if you don't get anywhere using the proper channels. Let me know how you get on

Post the full result you get using the BT performance tester if you can get it to work.

......... http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ .........

We came in via a similar route, but they did manage to carry on billing us (I must make sure they have stopped now actually).

I had similar concerns about going over to their LLU hardware, my support and speeds were so attrocious I didn't dare do anything that would sign me up to a 12month contract.

Can't seem to get the BT speed test to work, but hopefully below is my latest thinkbroadband speed test, which is actually the highest speed I received in a year, so perhaps things are getting better.

Speed test

OK, I'm a little confused here. According to all the emails I keep receiving from TalkTalk Business, the most my line is capable of, even on LLU is 7Mbs. At least, that's what their web page speed checker says. While I'd expect better speeds from lower congestion on LLU, I'm surprised to hear about the possibility of getting 16Mbs. Could someone explain?

In reply to a post by SarahS:

Can't seem to get the BT speed test to work, but hopefully below is my latest thinkbroadband speed test, which is actually the highest speed I received in a year, so perhaps things are getting better.

Speed test

I just tried the BT performance tester and it took about four minutes to get a result for my ADSL Max connection.

I'm not 100% sure but I wonder if it works with a LLU connection?

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

I'm not 100% sure but I wonder if it works with a LLU connection?

It doesn't! BT speedtester is intended to find out your IP Profile which LLU doesn't have.

Thanks XRaySpeX for the confirmation

BT Broadband. Top of the class reliability and real world prices.

In reply to a post by SarahS:

OK, I'm a little confused here. According to all the emails I keep receiving from TalkTalk Business, the most my line is capable of, even on LLU is 7Mbs. At least, that's what their web page speed checker says. While I'd expect better speeds from lower congestion on LLU, I'm surprised to hear about the possibility of getting 16Mbs. Could someone explain?

The Talktalk speed estimator is very conservative...just before signing up, it told me i could expect a speed of 9 meg which i knew was total balls...i'm currently getting more than 17 meg. Your downstream line attenuation is 25db, if you move to LLU ADSL2+ even though that will increase to 28-30db you should still get at least 16 meg as you live quite close to the exchange; as a rule of thumb 1km of line length = approx 16db downstream attenuation, 2km =32db and so on

As you're synced at 8128/832kbps it appears talktalk business have not moved you over to their LLU ADSL2+ network....if you were on LLU your upload would have been 1019kbps. try this speedtest, what do you get? (don't fill in any info, just click start mesaurement)
http://loki09.mpi-sws.mpg.de/bb/bb.php

As i suggested earlier, have you tried calling talktalk business (rather than their residential division) to get them to shift you over to their LLU network? If no luck, then pm me your details and i will ask one of the talktalk OCEs to have a look at your account and move you over to their "up to 24 meg" ADSL2+ service.

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

The Talktalk speed estimator is very conservative...

As they all are! Never rely on an ISP's or BT estimate, but go by your own router stats and research them at a site like http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

try this speedtest, what do you get? (don't fill in any info, just click start measurement) http://loki09.mpi-sws.mpg.de/bb/bb.php

That speed test is useless; it besmirches Max Planck's name. It repeatedly tells me that I'm faster than 10 Meg and keeps inviting me to do the 20 Meg test when every one else knows I'm about 15/16 Meg. And it takes so long to not reach a conclusion

Your downstream line attenuation is 25db, if you move to LLU ADSL2+ even though that will increase to 28-30db

Oh for crying out loud. You're like a broken record. Attenuation MAY, not WILL, increase. My attenuation decreased, and I'm sure others did or even stayed the same.

try this speedtest

Ha, I tried that one when someone else posted it a while back and tbh it was the biggest waste of time. No useful results at all.

In reply to a post by SimonCandest:

Your downstream line attenuation is 25db, if you move to LLU ADSL2+ even though that will increase to 28-30db

Oh for crying out loud. You're like a broken record. Attenuation MAY, not WILL, increase. My attenuation decreased, and I'm sure others did or even stayed the same.

Sorry i should have said "may" instead of "will". But in most cases going from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ does increase the downstream line attenuation; due to higher frequencies on ADSL2+.

As for the speedtest as its proven here TalkTalk users are NOT receiving the correct results on TBB tester by a few meg at least...which means there's a good chance her real speed is 5+ meg which is more realistic on a 8 meg sync.

OP, also try the official talktalk speedtest preferably during non-peak times to rule out exchange congestion:
http://www.talktalkmembers.com/content/view/53/124/

In reply to a post by SimonCandest:

try this speedtest

Ha, I tried that one when someone else posted it a while back and tbh it was the biggest waste of time. No useful results at all.

Really? You didn't seem to think so at the time.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/talktalk/t/3984258-...

Just because this speedtest works in an orthodox way doesn't mean to say its useless.

Edited by deleted (Tue 05-Apr-11 09:03:00)

Not all talktalk users get poor results from our tester, also we see plenty of people getting results a lot higher than 17 to 20Meg

The raw speedtest.net works it is more likely to give a result that makes people happy.

Both testers give accurate results, but neither is really telling you your connection speed, just the average (in our case) a peak speed in speedtest.net's case.

Really? You didn't seem to think so at the time.

No, it confirmed what I already knew. It did not give me anything extra or new. I got the same result using speedtest.net and TalkTalks own speed tester.