ISP recommendations for gaming?

Hi there, just moving back to a phoneline based ISP after a nightmare couple of months with virgin media and `high utilisation` stopping my online gaming.

Looking for some recommendations for isps for gamers..

Short contracts are welcome after having problems with virgin. Great customer service too.

So far I'm considering plusnet#s pro offering and be's unlimited service, who else does packages specifically for gamers..

thanks chaps

I have been on O2 nearly 3 years son on Xbox 360 and 2 pcs on wow works fine no problems at all solid good pings no major lag problems good custumer service as well.

do they do any gaming specific packages? or you've just been using their normal service?

Have you checked to see what ISPs are available at your exchange? (can do this through samknows)

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/STWINTN

https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/homepage

In reply to a post by epyon:

https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/homepage

Your joking right?,Better to wait until FTTC is available which it may be by spring next year , or take a be service via a wholesaler such as xilo /uno broadband

No joking here.

hi im with talktalk and its gr8 for gaming.


just done a speedtest

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1584796977.png

Joining these days brings traffic management however

joining be or talktalk brings traffic management?

Incorrect.

Only O2 has traffic management, the Be services do not.

TalkTalk has never hidden that it does traffic management

Yup

umlimited and unthrottled

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

joining be or talktalk brings traffic management?

nredwood was pointing out to the happy O2 user voetsek that new users can't get their package. I'm assuming they are still on a legacy one). The current ones have traffic management. See this page.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 11-Nov-11 13:45:02)

Where as joining BE gives you people that think a 1gig pipe serves 28 exchanges.

Guess some dont understand the difference between backhaul, pipes and nothing more than switching equipment in an exchange.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Where as joining BE gives you people that think a 1gig pipe serves 28 exchanges.

Guess some dont understand the difference between backhaul, pipes and nothing more than switching equipment in an exchange.

Strange, the only Be exchange I know of that serves 28 others had its 1gig pipe back to the main POP replaced by a 10gig one in February 2008. That was Barking. Which one are you referring to?

Wrong on that count also...
Actually it was a 100meg that got replaced by 1gig, and to suggest ONLY that serves thousands of people of more than 2 dozen exchanges is funny in the least.
Another example of BE'ings, having no clue'ings with the math'ings.
.

Meanwhile the Brixton exchange around the same time was updated with a 10gig. Confused with that one are you?

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/o2/3250144-congesti...

Maybe in the be'ings world maths of a 1gig to serve 28 exchanges but a 10gig to serve a single exchange makes sense.......

You and the other misinformed miss know all know nothing need to stick to insulting people on ispreview and getting stories locked for your stupidity.

Or learn what network interfaces, switches, backhaul and pipes actually are. Because it seems others (no it wasn't me on that site not that it will stop miss know it all accusing people of being others) sure as hell can not educate certain be'ings.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Wrong on that count also...
Actually it was a 100meg that got replaced by 1gig,

Seeing as you're the one that's demands evidence, your evidence for that contradiction of me is where?

and to suggest ONLY that serves thousands of people of more than 2 dozen exchanges is funny in the least.

Sorry, I haven't a clue what you are on about there. It doesn't even make sense as English.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 11-Nov-11 18:06:22)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

You and the other misinformed miss know all know nothing need to stick to insulting people on ispreview and getting stories locked for your stupidity.

I assure you I am not a misinformed miss. Evidence of that wouldn't be an appropriate post here, and anyway you would ask for proof that it was me in the photo.

ISPreview? What has that to do with me?

Try clicking the link for provided evidence. Though no idea where i demanded any evidence of anything.

Barking exchange was upgraded from 100meg to 1gig not 10gig, as you have stated.

Oh and a 1gig doesn't serve 28 exchanges either, unless you are using Martian maths.

The new fibre trial will no doubt run like a dream if there is only 1gig of backhaul serving not only the fibre trial exchange but 28 others. That is what you are saying right?

Its a link that got upgraded nothing more.

Though i can see where the confusion would occur to a few ill informed that roam web sites aimlessly defending an organisation, because the statement from 2008 is a confused mess itself.

Toodles and good day. Ill leave you to talk a load more dribble and complain.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Try clicking the link for provided evidence. Though no idea where i demanded any evidence of anything.

The link appears to be to the end of an archived thread - it doesn't give me anything to read other than the "Archived and cannot be edited" message

Off topic much?

If you wish to keep posting reign in the agression, it would appear that you started the 28 exchange out of one debate.

Now if you simply wanted to say that in your opinion Be is not good for gaming then fine, you are allowed your opinion.

To go off on a tangent over exchange links, and three year old information to me smacks of someone simply looking to abuse anonymous posting.

Hello PRODISC aka nonBEliever aka truth4free aka Deduction and the many other nicks you are using trawling web in your crusade against BE

Still on BE! Well I never

Your complaint to CISAS must surely be done with by now or perhaps you didn't complain at all

No traffic management on BE

Don't believe the Anon poster as he is a nonBEliever!

The figures are irrelevant (and probably long ago upgraded anyhow)

Whether you believe it or not, Barking is a BE aggregation point / hub

Anon,

Your posts have absolutely no relevance to this thread and only serve to mislead the OP

Not very helpful and I'm sure the OP realises that

Lets not jump to conclusions and name calling. Or put it another way - rise to the bait

Would agree BE are great for gaming and do 3 month contracts

An alternative would be any ISP doing BE Wholesale

It's OK MrS - I'm done

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Lets not jump to conclusions and name calling. Or put it another way - rise to the bait

Nredwood seems to think anyone that disagrees with their wrong opinion must be a range of people they have had issues with in the past. Two of the names mentioned are users on another site entirely.

Point is entirely valid, if 1gig serves 28 exchanges which is what they have suggested elsewhere, then the service is hardly ideal for hardcore gaming. Ping time on a switch which is worked as hard as that would be terrible. Fortunately and rather obviously they are wrong to suggest a singular 1gig serves 28 exchanges and does not comprehend what a switch is.

You are such a nusence --get off the internet.

What is a nusence? Sounds spiritual.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

What is a nusence? Sounds spiritual.

In reference to www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nusence:

Salty, or acitic. A loving, fun, close friend or person whom your has amused or anoyied you, or caused you fustation with

I rarely "LOL", but that link is utterly (literally utterly), hilarious.

Post deleted by billford


Link to unacceptable content.

Edited by billford (Sat 12-Nov-11 19:18:27)

1Gig can serve 200 exchanges - what matters is the number of users and their actual usage.

So your apparent campaign without actual data from customers on that link is just the word of one anonymous person in a see of others where some are actually using the service.

Where were you when Tiscali only used 2Mbps per exchange?

Except the so called 1gig pipe is in the exchange (Barking) their fibre trial is on.
Must have magical powers to serve that and 28 more exchanges ADSL2+ and bonded customers, unless of course you are stating BE cant provide 40Mb to people on the trial or a full ADSL2+ rates to anyone else.
Or are you stating their customer base is so small 1gig is enough?
Good to see you let users insult others, but will not tolerate it when people go a step better though, keep up the good hypocrital work.
PS stop sharing the Be'ings calculator.
LOL

Quite feasible yes

BT IPStream I think is about 1000 customers for a 34Mbps Home Gateway

Based on there being 1269 BE / O2 unbundled exchanges in May 2011 (not many gone live in the last 6 months

625000 / 1269 = 492.51279 as an average number of customers per exchange

Rounded up to 493 average no. of BE / O2 customers per exchange

For 28 exchanges that makes 13804 BE / O2 customers

1Gbps should be adequate then for 13804 customers and I wouldn't be surprised if was more than 1 circuit or 10Gbps these days

It should certainly have been enough in Feb 2008

PS put your Bat pet back on its leash...
http://www.peoplelikestupid.com/uploads/images/2011/...

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

PS put your Bat pet back on its leash...

And I though this was a forum for adults, whatever their views, not early teenagers.

Do you really have to sink so low? Is it beyond your comprehension to see the impression it gives of you, without in any way effectively insulting the person you are aiming at?

Talk about counter-productive! At least babies can be excused for bawling uncontrollably.

Don't feed the troll!

Just for interest Andrew, as you will know a figure it would take me some time to research, what used to be considered a reasonable number of customers per 622Mbps BT Central for capacity budgetting? OK - Entnet would load more on than Zen or IDNet.

(Edit - citing Entanet instead of the original BT as RandomJointer pointed out that I had forgotten that BT used BT Central Pluses, a different thing completely).

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 13-Nov-11 00:17:47)

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Don't feed the troll!

True .

Sorry.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is it beyond your comprehension to see the impression it gives of you

Posting as anon...says it all.

BT Retail wouldn't load more than Zen or IDNet onto a Central.

BT Retail never used 622 BT Centrals or indeed any Central. They used Central Plus which used BT's monster backbone to route directly to the internet rather than bouncing via the ISP. In fact if you are in the South of England, BT Retail was far better for pings than Zen who routed to London via Manchester.

If the OP is simply interested in gaming and pings, BT may be worth looking at. I would not advise using BE for gaming as they appeal to heavy downloaders and apparently suffer from regular ping spikes as the network creaks in various locations at various times.

It may be that as Telefonica lose customers month after month they also reduce capacity to compensate and the problems may increase. Be is good for heavy p2p use, I would caution against listening to posters recommending Be for gaming.

Sorry but that hasn't been my experience as an FPS gamer on BE. When I was on BT however my pings were all over the place as was packet loss.

I would not advise using BE for gaming as they appeal to heavy downloaders and apparently suffer from regular ping spikes as the network creaks in various locations at various times.

Something every ISP suffers from

Even during the current BE Linx problems, it rarely been a problem for gaming - it's been mostly download / throughput that has suffered for me. Will admit this hasn't been the case for all

It can be hit and miss with BE, that's true of any other ISP and at least with BE there is the option of a 3 month contract. Long enough to try out and go elsewhere if issues. I would always advise against BE Landline

I'd say that where fibre is available, go for it other wise BE is a good 2nd choice

No bias, just personal experience

Nor me on BE

!

Yes, sorry, I forgot about the Central Pluses.

But as the point was about the customer support capability on a 1gig pipe, for which I was requesting typical customer supported by a BT Central, I feel that although you are correct you are being a little pedantic by not just pointing out my mistake. Post edited .

Do you happen to have a view on how many customers a 1gig pipe might support in live running, and how that compares with 622Mbps Centrals? Assuming the feeders (whatever they are called) to the Central are adequate?

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

BT Retail wouldn't load more than Zen or IDNet onto a Central.

BT Retail never used 622 BT Centrals or indeed any Central. They used Central Plus which used BT's monster backbone to route directly to the internet rather than bouncing via the ISP. In fact if you are in the South of England, BT Retail was far better for pings than Zen who routed to London via Manchester.

If the OP is simply interested in gaming and pings, BT may be worth looking at. I would not advise using BE for gaming as they appeal to heavy downloaders and apparently suffer from regular ping spikes as the network creaks in various locations at various times.

It may be that as Telefonica lose customers month after month they also reduce capacity to compensate and the problems may increase. Be is good for heavy p2p use, I would caution against listening to posters recommending Be for gaming.

Quoted for truth, unlike that of BE usergroup members and BE fans that like to insult but don't like when it is chucked back.

Pretty easy for the OP to decide which to trust based on your very logical and sensible post RandomJointer

People should take anything a few die hards defending the BE product with more than a grain of salt. BE has has congestion issues (See the BE forum) and suffers horrid pings for months on end during peak times.

Terrible choice for gaming or in general at this time, posts about their issues not only on this site but others all over the net, including BEs own forums which they keep private in the vain hope people sign up and then find out how bad they are. Sounds like they dont have much bandwidth to go round either based on the earlier *ehhmm* maths used.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

BT Retail wouldn't load more than Zen or IDNet onto a Central.

BT Retail never used 622 BT Centrals or indeed any Central. They used Central Plus which used BT's monster backbone to route directly to the internet rather than bouncing via the ISP. In fact if you are in the South of England, BT Retail was far better for pings than Zen who routed to London via Manchester.

If the OP is simply interested in gaming and pings, BT may be worth looking at. I would not advise using BE for gaming as they appeal to heavy downloaders and apparently suffer from regular ping spikes as the network creaks in various locations at various times.

It may be that as Telefonica lose customers month after month they also reduce capacity to compensate and the problems may increase. Be is good for heavy p2p use, I would caution against listening to posters recommending Be for gaming.

Quoted for truth, unlike that of BE usergroup members and BE fans that like to insult but don't like when it is chucked back.

Pretty easy for the OP to decide which to trust based on your very logical and sensible post RandomJointer

RJ's wages are paid by BT. As he's never used BE, his opinion is obviously biased.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

RJ's wages are paid by BT. As he's never used BE, his opinion is obviously biased.

In fairness, I've had many dealings with him in Freechat, and on the whole he tends to be objective and unbiased.

/why does my nose grow when I say things like that?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

BT Retail wouldn't load more than Zen or IDNet onto a Central.

BT Retail never used 622 BT Centrals or indeed any Central. They used Central Plus which used BT's monster backbone to route directly to the internet rather than bouncing via the ISP. In fact if you are in the South of England, BT Retail was far better for pings than Zen who routed to London via Manchester.

If the OP is simply interested in gaming and pings, BT may be worth looking at. I would not advise using BE for gaming as they appeal to heavy downloaders and apparently suffer from regular ping spikes as the network creaks in various locations at various times.

It may be that as Telefonica lose customers month after month they also reduce capacity to compensate and the problems may increase. Be is good for heavy p2p use, I would caution against listening to posters recommending Be for gaming.

Quoted for truth, unlike that of BE usergroup members and BE fans that like to insult but don't like when it is chucked back.

Pretty easy for the OP to decide which to trust based on your very logical and sensible post RandomJointer

RJ's wages are paid by BT. As he's never used BE, his opinion is obviously biased.

Are you and BE supporters going to now try to discredit honest information and deny what another non-anon poster has stated, particularly the bit ive highlighted in bold?

Ill be happy to point to various links for the OP to decide for themself if that statement is true or not.

Horrible service at this time for anyone ping dependant, especially during peak hours.

Incorrect, Batty, I have been a be punter in the past.

I would not recommend Be over BT for gaming as Be is showing sporadic localised slowdowns and ping spikes according to posts in their forum. However Be are ideal for heavy p2p use.

I would not however recommend BT for p2p.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 15:59:52)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Incorrect, Batty, I have been a be punter in the past

Your wages are paid by BT as I said. I doubt you left BE due to any network problems?

I would advise against taking ISP advice from Cammy as he has next to no broadband technical knowledge and is sticking his oar in simply because he doesn't like my politics in the Free Chat forum.

I would advise not make a choice of a provider based on some dude you don't know not liking another dude you don't know.

The trick is to decipher the technical from the pincer movement of fans and foes of ISPs. This can probably be best achieved by noting reports and trends in the ISP individual forums and balancing that against their overall customer numbers.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 16:11:24)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

according to posts in their forum.

You don't want to believe stuff written by anonymous posters with a grudge, or incompetent kids with problems they are unable to cope with.

Indeed, or fans that patrol the forums.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Indeed, or fans that patrol the forums.

Much better to listen to independent opinion like mine for example.

Or that of a happy BE customer

"But you are part of the usergroup "and or" fanboy/girl, your view is biased / tainted".
Thought I may as well get that in there before Mr. Anonymous

Tom - www.mouselike.org

In reply to a post by drsox:

"But you are part of the usergroup "and or" fanboy/girl, your view is biased / tainted".
Thought I may as well get that in there before Mr. Anonymous

Tom - www.mouselike.org

I would have thought a member of the Usergroup is infinitely more reliable than some Anon.

It depends, I can see how people get the impression that the usergroup would be biased and I am sure some ISPs have fans or usergroup who are.

However if BE need to be called on something I certainly won't hold back But that won't be enough I am sure and the current Anonymous crusade will continue.

Tom - www.mouselike.org

Opinion is something that prospective gamers should be listening to. Using their skill and judgement to wade through fans and foes posts.

Curiously none of the fans and fans prescribed 'independent' opinions have mentioned that the Be Network Status page has reported for more than a month...

"Due to a major network issue, you may experience some packet loss and increased latency in the evening roughly between 6 PM and midnight. "

https://avatar.bethere.co.uk/networkStatusScreenForF...

So, as someone who has no interest in Be either way anymore, I would suggest avoiding Be for gaming as latency is pings and gamers want low pings. However, do not let latency issues put you off signing up if you want to use heavy p2p. Be is superb for p2p users but gamers should exercise extreme caution when wading through the posts and coming to a decision.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 19:55:25)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I would advise against taking ISP advice from Cammy as he has next to no broadband technical knowledge and is sticking his oar in simply because he doesn't like my politics in the Free Chat forum.

I would advise not make a choice of a provider based on some dude you don't know not liking another dude you don't know.

The trick is to decipher the technical from the pincer movement of fans and foes of ISPs. This can probably be best achieved by noting reports and trends in the ISP individual forums and balancing that against their overall customer numbers.

Now that's just untrue. Next to no BB technical knowledge? Depends on the subject. I tend to avoid the questions I can't answer, or the ones I have answered repeatedly over the years. People should use the search function for starters to save themselves the bother of asking.

I was having a tounge in cheek post, nothing more. Your politics in FC is, as best, fantasy. Let's be honest. I said nothing of your abilities with regards BB.

With regards ISPs, I recommend Plusnet because my experiences of them are generally fine. Occasionally there's a niggle, but that's life. You don't see me wading through non-Plusnet ISP forum sections flaming or trolling, unlike other members. That's because I'm not a fanboy, nor a flamer.

I disagree on the trends aspect as the forums are there for tales of woe. Rarely do people turn up and sing the praises of the ISP. Some moan about their ISP for months, which does nothing for the opinion basis. One has to balance the context of the problem (is the user a newbie / are they moaning a lot), against the problem itself, gauge the reaction from ISP support, if at all, and throw in the price to realise value.

Customer numbers are no way of making the judgement either. That's a BT way of getting customers. If all the little ISPs were worse because they are smaller, we would have a monopoly and everyone would be happy ( ).

Edited by camieabz (Sun 13-Nov-11 20:05:59)

I was having a tounge in cheek pord, nothing more. Your politics in FC is, as best, fantasy. Let's be honest. I said nothing of your abilities with regards BB.

Thanks for confirming that you have no advice to offer the OP, cammy and were just having a 'pord' at me because I do not like the Tories. In short, you admit you are simply trolling. Something that does not help the OP and is against the forum rules.

I would expect the Mods to be along shortly to sanction your admitted 'pording/trolling' and wish you an enjoyable time on your forum 'holiday'

I would advise the OP to disregard cammy's contribution on broadband issues that are based on politics rather than the pros and cons of particular isps and feel free to join us in the Free Chat forum if you want to talk politics.

However I would disagree on the important issue of customer numbers. Ten negative posts from a tiny few thousand provider against ten negative posts from a multimillion provider is something to consider when coming to a decision.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 20:17:04)

Well I could recommend Plusnet to the OP, but it seems the best decision has been made. As to the rest of your post, I'll not take what started as a bit of humour into what you seem to want.

If the OP want's Plusnet specific advice, I suggest a post in the Plusnet section, where's there's less chance of attitudes such as yours.

Yes now that Cammy is backpeddling on his pording and trolling I would agree that Plusnet may well be somewhere to look at as they offer specific 'gamers' profiles. This means that heavy p2p users will not interfere with gamers pings.

This a rare piece of good advice from Cammy to the OP that should be noted. I hope the Mods consider this when taking into account the self admitted pording and trolling earlier in the thread.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 20:28:47)

I suggest you backpeddle a little yourself. You're looking vindictive and rather pathetic.

I'm not a member of the usergroup, I am an online gamer of some 15 years experience, and have in the past used several ISPs including BT, NTL cable (as it was then) and currently BE (for the past 5 years ) I have been banned from the official BE user forums.

I won't be moving from BE any time soon as it suits my purposes perfectly, low pings for FPS gaming, excellent support should I need it ( I have a couple of times) peace of mind from not having any kind of throttling or port blocking and unlimited downloads for buying content over steam and the other various non p2p and p2p based platforms that games like WoW and LOTRo use.

Here is a link to my steam server finder http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m271/kamelion_200...

and the pingtest http://www.pingtest.net/result/50507632.png

Edited for grammar

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 20:42:49)

That's great to know, Kammy.

I wonder why Be Network Status has stated for more than a month

"Due to a major network issue, you may experience some packet loss and increased latency in the evening roughly between 6 PM and midnight. We are working to resolve the problem and apologize for the inconvenience caused."

I would suggest this is due to problems that may be causing ping spikes to some users and gamers looking for a provider should note this. Are you suggesting that Be are making this up in order to put off prospective customers?

BTW why are you banned from the official Be forums?

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 20:52:00)

Me and brett had a differnt idea of the word "Honest".

I have no idea why that status page is there as I have had absolutely no problems in the time period that Tommy and unBEliever have had theirs.

I had issues for around 2-3 weeks then it cleared up.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Me and brett had a differnt idea of the word "Honest".

This is a new aspect to the discussion and sounds worrying to potential punters. Many punters use forums for support. I note BT, Virgin, Plusnet and TalkTalk have lively customer forums amongst others. I think we need to expand on why Be ban people from their forums as it may help the OP in coming to a decision on which provider is best for gaming and which offer decent user forums.

We know that Be fans and foes will be all over independent forums when Be discussions take place. It may be helpful to the OP to expand on the usefulness of the official forum and whether bans are fairly applied.

If a gamer with High pings such as suggested may be the case by the Be Status page is simply banned from the forum, this may be a cause for concern by prospective gamers.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

I have no idea why that status page is there as I have had absolutely no problems in the time period that Tommy and unBEliever have had theirs.

Yes, I think the problems Be are talking about on their status page will be specific to locations that are congested rather than affecting the whole network. This will probably be to do with the way the Be network is constructed and the utilisation of the circuits they rent off of other providers.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 21:14:20)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Me and brett had a differnt idea of the word "Honest".

This is a new aspect to the discussion and sounds worrying to potential punters.

Brett left years ago.

Brett did indeed leave years ago, I just havent bothered to get myself reinstated. I was told at the time by one of the head honchos of BE that I could come back to the forums if I promised I wouldn't do the same thing again. I couldn't promise it at that time.

Now that Brett has gone I could

Sounds worrying, Kammy.

I have had experience of an official ISP support forum banning me and then subsequently editing my posts to suit their fan's marketing campaign myself in the past.

Still, many people may not worry about being banned from the official forum, or indeed worry about the continued official status page of the provider advising of high latency in the evening for over a month.

Given the official support forum may possibly be suspect, latency may possibly be bad in the evening according to the official status page, could you advise the OP whether Be have UK telephone support for gamers banned from the official forum and suffering high latency?

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 21:28:03)

I'm not going to fill your agenda . If the OP wants to ask me about my personal experiences with BE then he's quite welcome to.

It's not my 'agenda'. It's honest advice to the OP. A gamer looking for reliable, low latency and possibly decent support.

It would appear honesty is something that is curiously difficult to tease out.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

It would appear honesty is something that is curiously difficult to tease out.

Indeed.

Telefonica is not a 'small company' , Bill. It is possibly bigger than BT, Sky, Virgin and TalkTalk.

However I am always grateful for correction so perhaps you could point out the factual inaccuracies of my posts?

Oh and please go easy on Cammy as although he has admitted entering this thread purely to 'pord' and 'troll' me against forum rules, he eventually has given the OP some good advice. Plusnet are a provider a gamer should be looking at.

Your agenda is making money for the BT group, keeping yourself in work. I have given the facts and been honest I believe that if I were a member of your forums we would be having a difference of opinion .

Absolute nonsense, Kammy. This industry generates money when punters sign up to any provider.

It even generates money when the punter signs up to completely the wrong provider for their needs. Possibly guided by poor advice on independent forums or official forums you aint banned from yet.

Churn and sign ups is big on all providers agenda.

You need to get with the times and be honest with the OP. Just think of all the money your favourite provider could make with the churn of gamers looking for low latency connections.

My advice has been honest and accurate. Something that is sadly lacking in this parish.

Be honest. Does a gamer on Be who has high latency and is banned from the official support forums have the fallback of UK telephone support?

This is the kind of thing that will help the OP come to a decision rather than anyone's particular 'agenda'

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 22:03:36)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Be honest. Does a gamer on Be who has high latency and is banned from the official support forums have the fallback of UK telephone support?

Of course, and its a free phone call.

I'm sure the banned gamer doesn't miss the official forums any more than I do.

What has UK telephone support got to do with quality? Just because BT farms their support out to India and gives people a bad experience doesn't mean all outsourced support is bad.

Phone support with BE is an 0800 number and I find people from yorkshire harder to understand than the guys from Bulgaria to be fair.

My ingame friends call me Kammy. I don't play your games so desist

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Be honest. Does a gamer on Be who has high latency and is banned from the official support forums have the fallback of UK telephone support?

Of course, and its a free phone call.

I'm sure the banned gamer doesn't miss the official forums any more than I do.

I don't miss them at all, there is irc chat available if I want text based support or a chat with other BE users.

Bulgaria? Kammy?

Batty says it's UK.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Bulgaria? Kammy?

Batty says it's UK.

In reference to help.bethere.co.uk/help/support/geographical:

What's your support number?

Our support number is 08081013430, it's free to call from a BT landline, and we're also open 24/7 365 days of the year. Fancy that!

And because we love you so much, there is also a geographical number for members looking for a cheaper option from a mobile 02033935181.

AND we now have a live chat service for members who are logged in - it's right at the bottom of this page....so if you're interested, just scroll down

I think you are telling porkies, Batty.

Porkies doesn't help the OP and is not honest.

Be Telephone support is not in the UK is it? Kammy is right isn't he?

https://help.bethere.co.uk/help/support/accountsuppo...

Why tell porkies? It doesn't help the OP.

Forum bans, high latency reported on the Status page. Porkies being told about support.

I think the Op has some helpful information on this thread and is better armed to come to decision about which providers are good for low latency gaming and which are probably a poor choice for low latency gaming.

Of course the thread is also enlightening as to the porkies some correspondents will resort to to reinforce bad advice. .

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 22:35:29)

wow, I see there are now two people here who just talk BS until the thread is derailed enough to fit their needs.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I think you are telling porkies, Batty.

Porkies doesn't help the OP and is not honest.

TBH I would have thought you especially would recognise 0808 101 3430 and 0203 393 5181 as UK phone numbers

Irksome got back in

I remember Irksome.

Used to give sound and honest advice on these forums.

Why was Irksome banned from the official Be forums?

Or Live Chat

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Oh and please go easy on Cammy as although he has admitted entering this thread purely to 'pord' and 'troll' me against forum rules

Have you ever thought of becoming a script-writer for the film industry?

With your imagination you could make a fortune

Brett Coles banned him for criticising BE

Brett was over the top when i came to bans
It doesn't matter any way as Brett is long gone and it's nowhere near the same these days

Only recent ban I know of on the BE forums is someone who is posting as Anon in this thread and it doing so to flout a ban he also has here.

Both bans for abusive and insulting behaviour

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/which_isp/t/4063300...

I can spot a pattern here.

The official Be forums appear to be suspect?

Perhaps you could clear up whether Be telephone support is in the UK? As there appears to be some discrepancy between Kammy and Batty's posts.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 23:10:05)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I can spot a pattern here.

Oh, I think everybody can spot a pattern here

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I can spot a pattern here.

Oh, I think everybody can spot a pattern here

Yes and although the trolling from a mod is particularly disappointing, it is not unexpected.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 23:12:12)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Yes and the trolling from a mod is particularly disappointing, albeit not unexpected.

I recommend you leave the mods alone.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Yes and the trolling from a mod is particularly disappointing, albeit not unexpected.

You never change RJ, and we all love you for it .

It's good to have a point of constancy in this uncertain world.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I think you are telling porkies, Batty.

Porkies doesn't help the OP and is not honest.

TBH I would have thought you especially would recognise 0808 101 3430 and 0203 393 5181 as UK phone numbers

The Callcentre is in Sofia Bulgaria,

I'd also like to point out the number of exchanges on a single link is largely irrelevant from a capacity point of view (Although I would think you'd not want to many on a single link as that would be a single point of failure), what actually matters is the number of users on that link their speeds and their usage profiles. You could have a lot of exchanges but with a low user density and it wouldn't saturate the link.

Where as a single exchange full of people who download 10GB game downloads regularly would obviously need a higher capacity link between the exchange and the rest of the network.

Usually BE's service is usually pretty good and most people will get a stable unthrottled connection with a decent ping.

However BE do seem to run into congestion issues every now and again where they haven't seemingly provisioned enough capacity in a particular area to meet the increased demand and lately the problem seems to be on some of their peering/transit links which means it affects everyone who routes over that link to reach the wider internet.

They're also not doing themselves any favors by the lack of clear concise updates on why the issue occurred and what they're doing to rectify it.

I think the best way to describe BE is for the most part a fairly decent unthrottled ADSL2+ service but unfortunately with some rough edges.

I also believe that the Best ISP for gaming will vary depending on Locality and also the usage profile of the person taking the service.

Edited by dragon2611 (Sun 13-Nov-11 23:15:24)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I can spot a pattern here.

The official Be forums appear to be suspect?

Perhaps you could clear up whether Be telephone support is in the UK? As there appears to be some discrepancy between Kammy and Batty's posts.

There's no discrepancy, it's a UK number as I said. Numbers outside the UK have to be prefixed with 00 [country code]. Of course you must know that given you are a Communication Workers Union rep?

Finally, after several yards of thread, some porkies and some mod trolling, we are getting closer to the truth with a realistic appraisal.

Thanks for some honest advice to the OP.

The OP asked Be or Plusnet. For gamers, it's Plusnet who are far safer with a specific gamers profile, uk telephone support and a lively official support forum. For p2p Be is better as pings, sporadic and random localised slowdowns, officious support forum mods, fans telling porkies and Bulgarian telephone support don't matter.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-11 23:36:19)

Nothing suspect about the BE forums. Just an overzealous ex-Head of Member Services who left BE over 3 years ago

Bulgaria, but there is a UK based geographical number for those using mobiles otherwise it's freephone 24/7

BE Support have always been excellent the handful of times I've had to call them and in the 5 or 6 tickets I've raised in 5.5 years. At least I can understand them and they can understand me - something I cannot say about BT

No outages with BE in over 3 years - 5 or 6 in the 6 months on BT before I migrated to BE and judging by AAISP status pages, the same cannot be said of BT recently either

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Opinion is something that prospective gamers should be listening to. Using their skill and judgement to wade through fans and foes posts.

Curiously none of the fans and fans prescribed 'independent' opinions have mentioned that the Be Network Status page has reported for more than a month...

"Due to a major network issue, you may experience some packet loss and increased latency in the evening roughly between 6 PM and midnight. "

https://avatar.bethere.co.uk/networkStatusScreenForF...

So, as someone who has no interest in Be either way anymore, I would suggest avoiding Be for gaming as latency is pings and gamers want low pings. However, do not let latency issues put you off signing up if you want to use heavy p2p. Be is superb for p2p users but gamers should exercise extreme caution when wading through the posts and coming to a decision.

That has been going on since around August time believe it or not, guess it also demonstrates the lack of irgency to fix network issues also.
Still not fully resolved either.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Sounds worrying, Kammy.

I have had experience of an official ISP support forum banning me and then subsequently editing my posts to suit their fan's marketing campaign myself in the past.

Still, many people may not worry about being banned from the official forum, or indeed worry about the continued official status page of the provider advising of high latency in the evening for over a month.

Given the official support forum may possibly be suspect, latency may possibly be bad in the evening according to the official status page, could you advise the OP whether Be have UK telephone support for gamers banned from the official forum and suffering high latency?

Nope no UK support either, all overseas and phone support seems to be a VOIP system that cuts many people off.

In reply to a post by nredwood:

Brett Coles banned him for criticising BE

Brett was over the top when i came to bans
It doesn't matter any way as Brett is long gone and it's nowhere near the same these days

Only recent ban I know of on the BE forums is someone who is posting as Anon in this thread and it doing so to flout a ban he also has here.

Both bans for abusive and insulting behaviour

Wild accusations which are untrue.

A bit like the porkies about BE support being UK based is untrue.

Saying the phone call quality is bad to their overseas support and the live web chat system has bugs, and the service is suffering congestion and poor latency though which is all true would not fit your agenda as a usergroup member trolling the net for sign ups with your regular cohorts here.

Fortunately the intelligent can quickly look at the posts the likes of you batboy, robertos and other pushy BE sales spokes people (or thats what you act like) make here and see for thereself your untruth bias opinions on the company which is BE.

Fortunately also it seems most are intelligent enough not to listen to BE supporters, as is reflected in the 3rd decline of customer numbers for BE/O2 this year.

Appears people are not signing up and are leaving in mass, so i suggest you work hard to get new subs. Perhaps you need to create some new half baked pork pies to convince people.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

I can spot a pattern here.

Oh, I think everybody can spot a pattern here

Yes and although the trolling from a mod is particularly disappointing, it is not unexpected.

Neither is the bias where this moderator appears to have allowed abuse and violation of forum rules against you but seem fixated on everything you are saying rather than the lies others are.
Wild unfounded accusations from BE fans to others in this thread with no substance also.
A pity when any forum allows lies from people on a forum, especially when they are recommending a company and stating something is UK based when it is not.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Fortunately the intelligent can quickly look at the posts the likes of you batboy, robertos and other pushy BE sales spokes people (or thats what you act like) make here and see for thereself your untruth bias opinions on the company which is BE.

Even more fortunately, a few intelligent people, including RandomJointer who has argued strongly here against BE for gamers, but for BE for P2P, and more importantly including anyone looking for advice, also understand that at some time you may have had an unfortunate experience with Be. How valid that experience is as a guide to the vast majority of connections is extremely dubious. Am I right in thinking that your internet connection is still with Be, and that for many months you have not been inside a minimum term? That will be of interest to intelligent people.

It is clear there is also a problem with the network, affecting some users but not most, which has gone from being short-term to medium-term. This is certainly a point to criticise. There are posts elsewhere suggesting some long-running problem or other may now have been fixed at long last, but I'm not sure it is the same one.

BatBoy did indeed score an own goal over the support staff location, and was corrected by at least one other fan-person.

In the above, you mention me.

I accept I was misled by a confusing historical thread about the Barking upgrade. However, since my post about that I have unearthed a few more highly relevant figures, but need to find one more piece of information that I know is incontrovertible and make a few more checks. Then to assemble them into a coherent argument. That I may not have time to do until tomorrow.

For now, suffice it to say that I anticipate that all except one person with any remaining interest in this thread will find the evidence convincing that Barking could handle twenty-eight exchanges' traffic passing through it at the end of February 2008 when the list was first published on here. Whether or not it has been upgraded further since then is conjecture, but I shall be trying to cover that aspect as well.

As for my being a "pushy Be sales spokesperson", please show me where I have recommended them in this thread. I have only tried to debunk your fantasy that Barking could not be the end of the chain for 28 exchanges, feeding their traffic back to a POP. That I shall do soon, as explained above.

(Edit - typo).

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 14-Nov-11 09:18:02)

20,000 on a 622 was not unknown, equiv to 25Kbps per user CBR assuming a 3Mbps average IP profile.

Memory suggests maximum was around the 30,000 mark.

Sorry, didn't read all your post so may have missed a point.

For gaming try Be. By far the best gaming ISP - unlimited and unthrottled.

Sorry, didn't read all your post so may have missed a point.

For gaming try Be. By far the best gaming ISP - unlimited and unthrottled.

Thanks ANdrew. That's useful input to the calculation I have said I will produce.

I think I'm right is saying that as recently as last year the likes of TalkTalk budgetted on 80Kbps per customer when planning capacity, with high-end ISPs perhaps being 200Kbps per customer?

I hope your argument makes more sense than the faulty maths of your cohort in this post...

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/which_isp/t/4063252...

Which just for starters is based on per (fantasy average) amount of users per exchange, and not actual lines. Which is the relevant figure needed.

Unless of course the new claim is going to be nobody on those 28 exchanges has bonded which would be two lines to one user, would it not?.

As to 1gig via Barking serving 28 exchanges and the fibre trial being on the Barking, even if im kind enough to allow the BE supporters to state only half on that exchange will take part in the trial (IE around 20 users) than that maths still fails. Not much bandwidth left to play with for those 28 exchanges when all the fibre'ers get their trial hooked up and hammer it at the same time. Then again congestion has never bothered BE in the past, so i spose its not an issue eh?

I also find it quite ironic that BE usergroup members, and long term fans (or rather trolls) of BE like to scream other about BT paying another poster (randomjointer) a "wage" so their opinion doesnt count........

The irony in that of course is one person in the BE supporter camp that participated in this thread over the exchange debate is ex-BE staff thereself, and was also asked to become a member of the BE usergroup. Be fans though lap up what they had to say.

Seems that some seem to think randomjointers opinion isn't impartial but staff or ex-staff of BE is??

Even more funny that BE person concerned has 2 accounts here, one which they have posted in this thread with and another which still has their ISP status.

Maybe the moderator in this thread rather than focusing on specific individuals should focus on things like that. Then again looking at their history also, they don't appear to know how to be impartial or do a decent job either.

None of it really matters though as the proof is in the pudding and the BE pudding is a little flat recently as large numbers have abandoned it.

As to am i a BE user or who you buddy Nredwood thinks i and anyone that has the same bad things to say about BE is........ The answer to both that is NO. I left BE almost 2 months ago.

On individual ISP budgets not had anything official for some time, usually work on a 25 to 100Kbps range for CBR.

Meaningless and worthless innuendo unless you give the two nicks you are talking about. Clever-speak .

Perfect .

I also find it quite ironic that BE usergroup members, and long term fans (or rather trolls) of BE like to scream other about BT paying another poster (randomjointer) a "wage" so their opinion doesnt count........

I find it ironic that YOU have the nerve to call ME a troll for posting relevant information that was asked for by the OP. My comments about RJ working for BT and therefore having a vested interest in attracting custom for a BTGroup company are perfectly valid.

Perhaps you always believe what the salesman tells you when he is trying to get your cash for the latest bit of shiny? Of course that was a rhetorical question as I give no credence to the opinions of anonymous posters.

Sorry, didn't read all your post so may have missed a point.

For gaming try Be. By far the best gaming ISP - unlimited and unthrottled.

nredwoods figures given anything more concrete being available are reasonable in my view

Your suggestion that a member of BE staff is interesting, and would warrant action if you were to email your proof to [email protected]

In the past people have made accussations like this, but perhaps 1 in 100 actually come up with any information to help us look into things. Generally the times when it has happened it is the ISP themselves spotting people posting confidential information.

If people want to debate the numbers and whether ~13k Be customers can be sustained by a 1Gbps link they are free to do so, but that is and has taken this thread off topic, and TOO OFTEN it is developing into playground name calling by multiple people.