New IPStream Provider? - Not Murphx

I'm currently on ADSL24 but over the past year the Quality of Service has been nothing short of terrible. I've had my connection regularly slow down to less than 100kbp/s and often had pings of over 300 while in games, and I've got to the point I'm fed up with constantly phoning there technical support, so am looking for a change.

I'm trying to find a BB provider that has at least a 60gb monthly peek limit with unlimited (or extremely large) off peek usage. And more importantly no traffic shaping / management.

ADSL24 had Murphx as a provider, so I'd like to avoid any ISP's that use them. 1 month contracts would be preferable but not a massive stumbling block.

Anyone have any suggestions? Any would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Aug-12 22:42:33)

samknows results please . (I know you said IPStream, but!)

We're on ADSL Max (The best thing enabled at our exchange). We live around 200m from the exchange and the line can handle speeds of 7.5 / 8 meg.

Given plusnet have recently revised their protocol throttling to be far more relaxed, would you consider giving them a go? I'd be especially keen due to the fact their network recognises and prioritises gaming.

there is the problem with old ADSL Max exchanges and IPstream providers , there is only limited bandwidth and a compromise must always be made .

You say you want large peak time usage and huge off peak usage but no traffic management but still be able to happily game on the connection .. news flash ! not going to happen on IPstream .

So this is where the compromise needs to be made , whats more important to you , being able to use the connection for gaming , streaming , surfing or use the connection to download the internet .

Personally as a gamer i would always go with the provider that has the best most advanced traffic management and do my downloading in the wee hours of the morning .
Better to have a well managed network over one that is over subscribed IMHO .

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Aug-12 08:22:29)

It is possible but not at the prices you see in all the TV adverts, i.e. you have to go to the more expensive providers.

That said most of the wholesale providers that are not BT Wholesale offer pretty poor service on the older IPStream exchanges, they concentrate on the cheaper WBC network or have their own LLU network.

Zen/IDnet for usage capped, but probably more stable latency. Possibly Plusnet or even BT themselves should be on the list.

Or consider two connections on two lines, one that is as cheap a unlimited as you can get, and another with usage cap, but better peak performance in terms of latency for gaming.

Many years ago I was using an Entanet Office package. because it was aimed at business's, the peak time slow down was during normal working hours (9-5). Any other time I had maximum speed and low ping times. This suited me perfectly at the time because I was the only person using the internet, and I was at work between 9-5 monday to friday.

It was unmetered downloads between 8pm to 8am and all weekend.
They didn't port block or traffic shape when I was with them.

My circumstances have changed since then, others in my house use the internet during the day time. So Plusnet Value offers me best value for money, 60GB peak useage and unmetered midnight to 8am 7 days a week.
It is traffic shaped, and there is heavy congestion at peak times on the old 20CN and the ping times do suffer badly. Plusnets 21CN network is excellent with no noticeable slow downs at peak times.

Well it is possible as for years I had no Problems with ADSL24. 90GB Peek allowance and basically unlimited off peek with extremely stable pings. It's only in the past year their service has gone to [censored].

I don't have access to 21cn or any LLU's. It's ADSL Max or bust. And won't get access to them any time soon as we live in the sticks.

Plusnet Extra with Pro add-on might suit your needs. It's available on a 30 day minimum term although there's a £25 activation fee. Upstream sync can also be uncapped, if requested, but there is an additional monthly charge for this on IP stream.

Perhaps you could give it a try and if it's unsuitable then your only loss will be the activation fee?

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 29-Aug-12 12:51:06)

In reply to a post by lockewiggin:

ADSL24 had Murphx as a provider.

Just as a point of interest, what have they moved to? Murphx was taken over by Daisy, but I thought the ADSL packages still used them.

Why are you so against Murphx?

I believe Uno Broadband (XILO) still use them and my connection is as solid and reliable as always.

What exchange are you on?

EDIT: Just seen ADSL Max is the best you can get. Have you checked recently since TalkTalk have just unbundled my exchange which has only just shown up as LLU enabled on SamKnows.

You could look at XILO's Office 40GB package. The lower allowance is made up by the fact that peak times are from 8AM - 8PM meaning anything in the evening from 8PM onwards is actually unlimited.

Edited by Toonshorty (Thu 30-Aug-12 09:01:58)

As i've stated earlier in the thread, my current provider are with Murphx and I want to move away from them for that reason.

So far my options seem to be Xilo or Vivaciti

Vivaciti still use entanet for these packages.

In reply to a post by lockewiggin:

As i've stated earlier in the thread, my current provider are with Murphx and I want to move away from them for that reason.

So far my options seem to be Xilo or Vivaciti

Are you wanting to move away from Murphx due to poor service?

That'll be down to ADSL24 rather than Murphx themselves.

Xilo are Murphx resellers however the service is flawless for almost everyone.

Hi,

Found this thread, and therefore this forum because I am having exactly the same problems as discussed here. Have been with ADSL24 for years and until I switched to the Murphx network, everything was brilliant. I came from AOL because their operatives in India could not understand what Interleaving was and their tech team took 3 months to even work out how to switch it off. (Which they never did!)

ADSL switched interleaving off within 24 hours when I asked them and I got great service and trouble-free connection. However, I switched to the Murphx last December and due to some fault I was without any internet for over a month. Once I got it back, the speed was appalling, bandwidth wont let me stream BBC iplayer and my ms in game often jumps to over 10k. All in all it is incredibly unreliable - I never know when I will be able to game, or to stream anything.

They told me at first it was a problem my end and after replacing all the leads etc they said I needed a new Modem (despite the fact that my modem was under a year old) So, I bought a new modem and still no improvement. In April they told me there was a problem with their end and since then the date for upgrading their equipment has been pushed back and back. Eventually they completed some work a month ago, only to report they needed to do more work. This was completed last week and when no improvement was seen from my point of view again, I have spent the last few days doing speed tests, pathpings and tracerts as they claimed again it was my problem. On the point where they suggested I needed a new modem... I sort of lost the plot! Today ADSL24 tell me that Murphx (Daisy) have admitted they still have latency issues but havent given ADSL24 any indication yet of what they intend to do, or indeed when. So I am now coming to almost a year of total disruption.

My speed tests show I get about 0.47 to 0.78 upload (Speedtest.net) and that this is worse than 79% of the population. I know I cannot expect super fast as I am out in the middle of nowhere and cable will probably not get to me for another 50 years

But, my question is - what did the original poster decide to move to - and given all this hasstle should I just give up with ADSL24 or wait it out? I looked up Daisy today and see they are struggling with losses, so I wonder if they can even afford to put this right. What was great about the deal I had is that there are no limits on useage. I'd want something similar. I just want the best internet connection I can get given my location.
Thanks!
Ellz

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Nov-12 20:23:19)

Welcome to these forums Ellz .

To help you we could do with a few more bits of information.

First, to see what is available to you, which from what you've said could be "not much", please could you post the link to what samknows says about your exchange, and could you also copy and paste, (omitting your phone number), what this checker says about your line?

Which package are you on with ADSL24 and how much is it per month? Would it be fine if the performance was back to what it used to be, or do you need something different, for example a bigger allowance? What about price!

Last one . Your router stats would be very useful as well. See here for help finding them.

Thanks for the welcome

Link to Samknows: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LSFARN

Copy and paste re the checker:

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1.5Mbps and 5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL2+ broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 3.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2Mbps and 6Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the service you wish to purchase.

Thank you for your interest.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.

Note: If you already have a Broadband service enabled on this line and you want to switch service providers, you will need to contact both your current provider and your new provider to get your service changed over new and existing service provider to have this service transferred.

Also provision of some services may not be allowed due to product withdrawal, please contact your service provider for further details.

I am on Premium LLU with ADSL24 via Murphx

I don't mind paying more than I do now. (18.99) Like everyone, I suspect, I want the best that I can get given my exchange. I stream a lot, so I need decent bandwidth for that. I also game a lot and the current connection I have has actually makes it frequently impossible to do so. So I need whatever gives me good ms in-game. (Note the UN-techy description there!! Sorry - but have no idea what drives the ms )

Router: I have Netgear DGND 3300v2

It didnt appear on the list from your link, but when I clicked through it came up with these statistics:

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?next_file=stattbl.htm

Think that was everything!

Ellz

Nearly everything .

I think I am right in saying your are connected to the Daisy backhaul through an O2 Wholesale DSLAM (used to be Be Wholesale but it was recently re-branded).

So one obvious option is to look at the O2 and Be packages and go direct. You have O2/Be, Sky and TalkTalk all available.

On O2, (you don't have to take their phone package, they just guide you that way), you can have a monthly contract rather than minimum 12 months for an up-front payment of £30.63.

But !

They are rolling out a new network at the moment, and this current thread isn't encouraging.

The problem is that I think most of the resellers are using Daisy, though I have a feeling at least one isn't. I'll look into that a bit more on Friday, but it could be late'ish.

From the BT Wholesale report you pasted I would expect nearer the 6Mbps connection speed than the 3.5 or 2 in the same paragraph. Your stats would tell us exactly what you are getting, and what you should be getting. Unfortunately you posted the GUI link, which of course doesn't give us your figures as it just feeds the data back to you on your LAN. The main figures (both down and up) we need are the sync speeds, (often called Connection speed or Badnwidth), attenuations and noise margins, (often called SNR or SNRM).

That link you gave us is definitely the right track . You may need to copy/paste, or type the numbers (carefully!) or take a screenshot and upload it then give us a link to the upload.

Before you went onto this ADSL24 Premium LLU,were you having problems with a non-LLU package? What I'm getting at is are you ruling out non-LLU because of past experience? Non-LLU ADSL2+ has improved quite a bit, or maybe wasn't even available on your exchange before.

Doh! Should really check the links I posted before I...posted

Sorry about that, these are the figures:

Connection Speed : Downstream 8674 kbps
Connection Speed: Upstream 1248 kbps

Line Attenuation : Downstream 44.0 db
Line Attenuation : Upstream 21.4 db

Noise Margin : Downstream 6.3 db
Noise Margin: Upstream 7.1 db

As you probably gathered, I'm not terribly 'with it' on the techy side, tho I do pick things up fairly quickly! Should I test this later when the network is busier as well? My issues are intermittent and seem particularly bad in the early-mid evenings. Well that is when I notice a massive ms change in-game anyhow. I don't know if these statistics show that ?

I took a look at the other thread you linked to...and OMG, a speed test showing download speed of 16 mbps was posted! I'd be dancing round my house if I got anywhere near that! As I said, my speed tests show around 0.4 mbps ;p After just typing that, I decided to check - and got this:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2341342897.png

I have never seen it so high to be honest, perhaps the time of day - usually it is more like this:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/2338341932.png

I don't really understand how the speed test figures relate to the router numbers I've given here.


Anyhow - to answer the other question:
Previously I was with ADSL 24 on their adsl+2 package. It was fine, but more expensive and with limits. This is what ADSL24 told me:

Checking line availability with that particular supplier (for the Premium LLU) they advise that the speed of the service you might achieve is:
3.9 Mb downstream
0.9 Mb upstream

Not a great deal of improvement on what you presently have, basically. Even the fact that this is ADSL2+ is not getting much better; the benefits of the additional frequencies on ADSL2+ do drop off on longer lines.

The advantage it might have is the download/upload is unlimited - there is no upper limit in the amount that can be downloaded.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So after some discussion with them, telling me that it would be unlimited with better connection for less money - I switched and then immediately started having issues. I did ask to go back at one point and they told me that BT would consider this a new installation and charge for activatiion. Then they also said this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's not an unlimited service to which we can migrate you; all other services at that exchange have a monthly quota of usage, be this the Home 5 to Office 90 services on BT's systems (with 5 to 90 gigs of monthly peak time usage) or the Compete LLU 50 (with 50 gigs usage at peak times that also incorporates line rental charges).

Neither of these services offer quite the value to service that you'd usually expect from this service; the fact that this is under performing to the level it is at present is unusual. Hopefully we'll have a better idea of what's going on here shortly.

Regards,
Paul
ADSL24.co.uk

I don't really mind, as I said, paying more - so perhaps this would be a better option, although if the current LLU is giving me so many issues, I don't see how 'Complete' will be any better - but it may be that I just don't understand the difference.

ADSL+2 - I could ask them to move me back to this and just live with the limits I guess.

The line stats (attenuation etc) look good, seeing what they are like once the sun has set is a good idea. The network being busy should not affect these numbers, but noise from everyones heating pumps etc can.

It looks like this is a throughput/backhaul issue, and switching providers can fix this if you go to one that has different backhaul. Providing unlimited is not easy or cheap, so if you speeds are ok around 3 to 4am then a good bet its unlimited at a low enough price that it is congested.

The ISP may have other more expensive options using a different way out of the exchange, very much a try it and see affair, unless you can find another customer in exactly the same situation on your exchange who has moved and says it is a lot better.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Vivaciti still use entanet for these packages.

For me (home user on 21cn) Entanet heavily block p2p 0800 - 2000 - they even block their own text news server.

Their kit also sometimes blocks git, but this is rarer. I don't use them but I have read home accounts also get vpns etc throttled (may be blocked) as well.

Apart from this they seem to have enough bandwidth and pings are low, off peak is unlimited - midnight - 0800 weekdays and all weekend.

Which of their nodes you are connected to depends on location - so I can't say what the experience for others would be like.

http://noc.enta.net/21cn-interconnect-status/

Thanks for those .

As MrSaffron says, those stats are good. In fact given your line length to the exchange the connection speeds are as good as it gets. (You are in fact on LLU ADSL2+).

Your download connection speed is over 8.5Mbps. In my opinion on a speed test that should give over 5Mbps 24/7. The atrocious result of 1.64Mbps, although better than the other, to me points to something other than congestion. Which isn't to say you aren't also getting congestion. Your upload speed is normal.

Are you connected wired or wirelessly to the router? That could have a significant effect. I'd be almost sure you have more than one thing causing your poor performance, partly on the basis of

Checking line availability with that particular supplier (for the Premium LLU) they advise that the speed of the service you might achieve is:
3.9 Mb downstream
0.9 Mb upstream

Not a great deal of improvement on what you presently have, basically. Even the fact that this is ADSL2+ is not getting much better; the benefits of the additional frequencies on ADSL2+ do drop off on longer lines.

So it seems even before moving to the LLU service you were getting under 3.9Mbps.

We need to see if we can fix that and see how your current service performs then. If it is still very poor we think where/what you should move to.

I'd agree that I have probably had issues forever with my inet - they are certainly worse on this particular connection, but yes. as I said at the start I have kinda come to expect that I wont ever get a fast connection here. My ping in fps games has always been pretty stable though, but ms in my current game is intermittently great and horrendous. Streaming has only really become a serious problem the past few months.

I did a series of speed tests yesterday:

3.15pm: http://www.speedtest.net/result/0.png

5.06pm: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2342135968.png

22.53pm: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2342838206.png

01.54pm: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2343059500.png

Not an awful lot of difference there - same went for the router, which gave exactly the same results apart from the Downstream Noise Margin, this was 6.3 that I posted her previously and it changed to 5.1 and 4.9 at 22.53 and 01.54 respectively. At some point between around 7pm and 10.30pm my ms shot up to around 300-400 and I had lag issues in game, the rest of the time it was comfortably between 27 and 51.

My set-up here is wired from this pc to the router. I do have a second pc with a wired and wireless connection, I game on both of them - but I don't use wireless at all, and I only use one pc at a time. There is no-one else using my line, not in the house, or outside. I have no neighbors for at least a mile, so someone would have to park a car outside to leach and ofc it is pw protected anyway.

The router, phone socket etc are all in the same room, very close to each other. I have previously changed all leads and the splitter (?) at the phone socket and had no change.

At some point I had problems when they first switched me over to this connection with my inet stuttering if I had a phone call, but they changed something and this is fine now. When I first switched to them from AOL, as I said previously, the switched interleaving off for me - I was playing fps at the time and ping was everything However, when I check my profile now, it says Interleaving N/A - not sure if that means it is still off or it N/A on the LLU.

I do kinda hope that part of the problem is my set-up because I can control that, whereas at the moment is all seems at the mercy of whatever Daisy do or don't do. They are saying that there is a problem there - this is the latest from ADSL24:

It seems (despite work having allegedly been completed) the network providers are still acknowledging problems with latency at the exchange, My fear is that the whole thing with the upgrading the back end from the exchange (which is an expensive solution) was not the best solution here; that there was some other fault (possibly with a router) that was not detected & this is still manifesting and needs to be addressed. This, of course is just my hypothesising & may not be the problem at all, but they are acknowledging that there's a problem, so this should be addressed.

Hope that all helps somehow! Tried to include everything I could think of, but let me know if there's anything else I can tell you. Really appreciate the help here

Are you using Windows? If so, which version - XP/Vista/Win 7?

Windows 7

Not what I wanted to hear!

If it had been XP there are some settings that might have been causing it.

Have we asked what router you have, and have you ever tried a different one? It's very unusual to have such a loss from the connection speed to the actual.

I have this router: Router: I have Netgear DGND 3300v2

Previously I had a thomspon speedtouch - have had this netgear since April when I changed it for a different Netgear.

And the speeds on the old one were just as bad?

Well I never did speed tests back then because my ms in-game and streaming were not giving me a lot of problems I'm afraid

I'd assume they were though because if i tried to download stuff it has always been slow - even if gaming and streaming were not as bad.

Ellz

Are you still having slowdowns? We resell O2's LLU product (To a greater or lesser extent) and have had quite mixed results. We have lines that are great, business grade and highly reliable and others (Including my own home circuit) that were appalling. Contention was a nightmare and speeds were at best pedestrian.

Those ones we have moved back to BT Wholesale circuits and have resolved all the problems. It's more expensive if you are a large bandwidth user (The break point for us is about 30Gb peak traffic a month) but the quality of service is there. We also don't use Daisy in any guise on our network, so haven't seen any of the problems that the OP had (We do get slowdowns at peak times due to exchange contention at some exchanges of cause, it's the nature of the product but BTW are pretty good at managing backhaul bandwidth these days).

Sorry this doesn't help your current situation much.

Drew

In reply to a post by woweebert:

You say you want large peak time usage and huge off peak usage but no traffic management but still be able to happily game on the connection .. news flash ! not going to happen on IPstream .

Sorry but that's not true. Niche isp's such as Netplan do offer unlimited, unthrottled adsl1 connection (up to 8128/832 kbps) without charging an arm and a leg...when i was with them it was £30 + vat pm and their service is the dogs you-know-what. But their 12 month contract keeps the bandwidth rapists away
http://www.netplan.co.uk/

The providers are now saying there is an issue with the equipment at the exchange, so I am waiting to hear when they are going to sort that out. Funnily enough, the last couple of days it has been better, which only confuses the issue more,

Will wait and see what happens with this promised fix, and if I am still having problems then I guess I will try and replace all my equipment again (Router/leads) before either moving house <joke> or looking elsewhere for a different provider. It all seems a bit of a mystery to me - I don't really know (and I'm not confident they do either) what exactly is causing the problem - but I guess its a case of elimination one-by-one

Ellz