Moving House, which ISP?

Have been happy for the last couple of years running 2 unlimited lines, one with Plusnet for my sons gaming and a Sky phone/broadband/TV package for everything else.

However, due to health problems we are downsizing and moving to a bungalow. It's on the Sacriston exchange NESAC which is 21CN WBC enabled but only has Sky and Talk Talk LLU.

Now comes the problem, I was going to keep the Sky package and rang them about moving house, they say they can't get an Openreach appointment for a new line (it does have an existing one) until Jan 31st!, being practically housebound disabled myself and also being the sole carer for my Autistic son I need the phone line connected ready for when we move (Jan 12/13th). We do all our grocery shopping etc. by Internet and rely heavily on the phone for support services. I would have thought that by giving them 7 weeks notice they could have managed it easily!.

Sky are adamant that Openreach are not playing fair with them and this seems to be the case as Talk Talk say they can have a line installed in about 2 weeks or by Jan 4th at the very latest.

I'm not too bothered about loosing the Sky TV side as Freeview will do, we do need a fairly high usage as both my kids watch a lot of TV via X-Box etc.. Given the limited choice of providers on the exchange who would people recommend as a provider, I've heard fairly bad things about Talk Talk but they are looking like the better option with the Plus TV, broadband & phone deal that's on offer at £30.50pm.

Have you checked for fibre.

Also BT are not not too bad and can get things installed quickly in general

Fibre not available on NESAC .

Do you mean the existing line is working, or just there has been a line?

I didn't know Plusnet did an unlimited service, but have you asked about a house move for that? Would you be able to live with just the one connection for the two and a half weeks weeks from Jan 12 to Jan 31?

How quickly could the Post Office install a line, if the second phone line is the issue rather than the internet on it? Theirs is only a monthly contract so you could get Sky on that. Order as soon as the line is installed, (actually probably three days later), and the worst that happens is you pay rental to both for a short period.

Sorry for the confusion,

Current house has 2 lines, one with Plusnet one with Sky, on moving we will downsize to 1 line.

New house has a line installed (BT socket in hallway, wires from house to BT Pole) but both Sky and TalkTalk say they can't use it and need to put a new line in.

Plusnet could be an option as th exchange is 21CN WBC enabled, the Unlimited package I have with them is an older product which I have had for a 5 years but they want me to move to a capped offering.

In reply to a post by jeff1106uk:

Current house has 2 lines, one with Plusnet one with Sky, on moving we will downsize to 1 line.

Ah .

New house has a line installed (BT socket in hallway, wires from house to BT Pole) but both Sky and TalkTalk say they can't use it and need to put a new line in.

That sounds as though it has an existing "ISP tag" on it for broadband. They should be able to get that removed. Unless they simply mean it has been disconnected so needs reconnection.

Plusnet could be an option as th exchange is 21CN WBC enabled, the Unlimited package I have with them is an older product which I have had for a 5 years but they want me to move to a capped offering.

Maybe you are talking to the wrong level of support. Have you asked in the Community forums? A House Move is almost certainly part of your T & Cs from way back . Is it an ADSL2+ connection you have now on PN, so it can't be argued you would be upgrading?

Fairly sure it's ADSL2+ as the upload speed went up to 992K after the current exchange was 21CN enabled last year. The other problem with Plusnet is the price, as I've had it for 5 years each time it's been renewed they've said they were increasing the cost, currently £39.41 for unlimited and basic line rental, I got that reduced to £27 last time by saying I'm leaving!.

The TalkTalk Plus TV package is only £3pm more and includes anytime calls and the TV package, I'm just wary of TalkTalk as I've dealt with their useless support for family and friends who have had problems.

So do you trust TalkTalk's estimate for installing a new line?

Got exactly the same time frame from Plusnet so it should be OK, Sky said they were sorry but Openreach were the problem, I have 7 weeks until we move so that should be enough time.

It could be that the Sky kit at the exchange is full, and they are waiting for Openreach to make provision for more. That could well involve a longer timeframe.

A lot of the appointments we are seeing for new line install is running at around 31st Jan, so that does not sound too far out. Talk Talk could just be quoting the standard lead times.
If the property was recently having a phone line and as long as it was not a full LLU line you should be able to do a re-start.
If you are not sure you are being given the right info, drop us a PM with the new address and we can look it up for you and see what the first OR appointment is for you (dont worry we wont place any orders) at least then you will know who is telling porkies and who is not.

Thanks, PM sent

PM not received here???

Strange, it's not showing in my mail, sent it again

Looks like sky are the ones telling you the truth.
The first Openreach appointment slot is ether an AM or PM on the 32st Jan (the calendar is a live feed so is accurate when accessed.
There are no lines showing that can be re-started and no active working lines so it would have to be a new line activation I am afraid.

B@gger!

That is a huge problem as we rely on the phone line for 99% of our shopping and care/support needs

I know it does seem like a long time, but it is not that much over the standard lead times when you take the Christmas week out of the equation.
Sorry the news was not much better but at least you know who is telling the truth.

Indeed

No need to be sorry! they do say "don't shoot the messenger" lol

Thank you very much for taking the time to check it out for me, as you say at least I now know what the true situation is

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

The first Openreach appointment slot is ether an AM or PM on the 32st Jan

That probably explains quite a few of Openreach's missed appointments.

Which just leaves the choice of ISP!

Only LLU providers are TalkTalk, Sky or AOL (TalkTalk?), is there any benefit in LLU if the exchange is 21CN WBC enabled?.

I know LLU isn't tied to bRAS profiling but what about 21CN WBC?.

I wouldn't use AOL. It seems to be a very strange setup, not fully TalkTalk in the way that Tiscali et al are. I think it is TT network but some sort of USA customer handling. I don't really know. Does this help?

Re BRAS profiling, the new system on WBC, which is what you would be on if not LLU, is a lot better than the old one. IP Profile is 88.2% of connection speed, (which in effect absorbs a lot of the overheads), and it adjust immediately to the connection speed. In the case of a few ISPs, Plusnet being one, the ISP holds a copy of the BT IP Profile but rounded down, and applies that. The "copying" procedure fails sometimes and may need to be triggered by support.

The system also now has a 3dB noise margin setting which it can apply on stable lines. That can add over 1Mbps to the connection speed on ADSL2+ compared to the standard 6dB.

Sky LLU I believe uses a standard setting of 7dB.

TT LLU I'm not sure about. There are several resellers using TT exchange equipment with their own backhaul not TT's. Vivaciti is one.

In my opinion the benefits of speed and lack of IP Profiling that LLU used to have are now largely gone. However they are still very cheap compared to WBC-based and TT resellers. (O2/Be are a different case again, but not available to you).

Have you considered going for Sky, and getting a 3G dongle on 11 Jan to tide you over for essentials stuff like emails and shopping?

Yes the 3G dongle is top of the list at the moment

Just saw the link to the Guardian article about Plusnet offering unlimited, not strictly correct for them to say Plusnet has always had caps on home users as I only just cancelled my unlimited account which I had with them for several years and just kept saying I'd leave every time they increased the price!. Good news is the new pricing looks a lot better than the one I had

Let us know what you do, and how it goes .

True unlimited on PN aka BT and Sky, if there is no funny FUP/AUP stuff, will be a huge selling point.

Will do

Just found what looks like a good offer on a PAYG dongle from O2, 1 month 2Gb £12.87 with free delivery

http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/o2mobilebroadband/tab/Pay...

Some friends of ours moved from the Manchester area to Milton Keynes, and bought an O2 dongle to cover them for about a month at the new house. They were perfectly satisfied.

All sorted

Got the O2 dongle in the post and signed up with Plusnet Unlimited, gave me an install date of Jan 25th so a week earlier than thought.

Will let you know how it goes

A Happy Xmas to All

Great.

(I assume you mean Unlimited plus Home Phone?)

Quick update.

Openreach sub contractor arrived Friday afternoon, spent several hours going backwards and forwards but couldn't get a connection to the cabinet.

Came back Saturday morning and said we were connected via two cabinets not one, an hour later and I had a working phone line

Made a phone call on the afternoon, went to make another later and no dial tone

Spoke to Plusnet on Sunday, nothing they can do as the job's showing as not completed, suggested I ring back this morning and speak to provisioning.

Spoke to provisioning who went off and spoke to Openreach, appointment booked for 8am-1pm today to sort it, their system also shows the job as not completed and due to be done today.

1pm came and went and no engineer, just rang Plusnet (again) and they're ringing Openreach (again) so still waiting to see what's happening

Openreach say the job is completed (but have no record of Saturdays visit), earliest appointment to come out again .......... Feb 25th!!!.

Just been transferred to Plusnets telephone faults department who have ran a line test, came back with a fault between data point and customers equipment which apparently is good news as it means they can get someone out this Thursday to look at it!.

So, hopefully it will be sorted Thursday and then just have to wait and see what they do with the broadband connection!.

In reply to a post by jeff1106uk:

Openreach sub contractor ....

Says it all . Complete cowboys. The trouble is, sorting it out once this sort of thing happens is a nightmare.

According to Plusnet line faults they were coming Thursday, didn't come checked online and it said Friday morning and again no engineer

Phoned Plusnet again and Openreach now said it would be done next Tuesday, no sooner got off the mobile and an Openreach engineer was at the door!, took about an hour to find the second cabinet (not on his map) and sort it out.

Runs his test and says there's an internal loop problem with the existing extension (other guy tested it and said it was fine) but offered to run new one for free, so I asked if it would be easier to run it around the outside of the house instead, he agreed and after some negotiation he also agreed to wire it as a master socket (so original socket at front of house isn't connected). I now have a working phone line with a nice new master socket 4" from the router

Just have to wait and see what they manage with the broadband connection, according to neighbours (not technical) speeds are from 3 to 6mb but we are in a dip (??) We are approx: 900 - 1000m from the exchange but I have no line stats yet, previous house was just over 2000m and I got 8mb on there no problem.

Will the fact it's underground wiring and we're through 2 cabinets make any difference to the speed or is it just pot luck?. I'm currently using a free Fon connection from a neighbour but that's just hitting 3.5mb but I don't know if Fon is speed limited.

Gawd .

With such chaos in the communication between Openreach and Plusnet, (and other ISPs), it's really bad for users such as you. But imagine being ISP/Plusnet support and getting blamed for things like this.

We get several a week on the Plusnet forum. All seemingly Openreach .

Looks like another Openreach problem, apparently the job wasn't closed when they sorted the line out last week so Plusnet were unable to place the order for broadband and the request to have my number be withheld was rejected as my number wasn't listed as active.

Hopefully it'll now be sorted and I can get proper internet access.

Given that there's a fair chance these days of living well past 80, you should get connected in time to enjoy it.

Hopefully

Just been given an activation date of the 19th so 2 months from placing the original order!.

Finally!! got connected yesterday tea time

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9839 kbps 443 kbps
Line Attenuation 41.5 db 24.3 db
Noise Margin 3.5 db 23.9 db

Phew!

Now you should ask for the upstream speed to be uncapped.

Keep an eye on the downstream noise margin. It almost looks as though the default is now 3dB not 6dB, but if it is I think the connection speed is a little low.

Maybe some time check for a ring wire in the master?

Will do

SNr is heading back up towards 6db this morning, router has stayed synced at the the same speed with no drop outs.

I don't think they'll uncap the upload yet as I have to wait for the line training period to pass (didn't think that still applied on 21cn?)

Connection is straight into a new single master socket with no ring or extension wiring using an ADSL Nation filtered face plate.

I assume as I'm synced above 8128 I'm ADSL2+? how can I check?

Current line stats are,

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9887 kbps 443 kbps
Line Attenuation 41.0 db 24.2 db
Noise Margin 6.4 db 24.5 db

Just put my stats into http://www2.farina1.com/ADSL/default.aspx

It reckons I could get 23729Kbps ?

Thanks

Edited by jeff1106uk (Wed 20-Feb-13 10:04:23)

Not sure what numbers you are using but when I enter your stats into the checker it says you should get between 7250 and 11000 - nothing near 21Mb and on 41dB attenuation you would not get that anyway.

Yes, you are probably on ADSL2+. Is there a G.992.n hear the top of the stats?

Re the 23+Mbps, you put a wrong number in. 10Mbps max.

Silly me, I missed it asking for Kbps not kbps

Can't see G.992.n anywhere, it's a Netgear DG834GT if that's any help

If you scroll down this page to "Tweaking through the CLI", don't do the tweak, but it tells you how to set up a telnet session into it. (Assuming you are using Windows and have enabled the telnet client in Windows).

Then read down to the stats bit, ignoring DMT for now, and you see the command for the full stats, which gives the Mode.

Can be useful for problem-diagnosis as well.

Thanks, mode says ADSL2+

In reply to a post by jeff1106uk:

Can't see G.992.n anywhere, it's a Netgear DG834GT if that's any help

Run this: http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bi... to get your full stats incl. ADSL Mode.

Cheers

adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: ShowtimeRetrain Reason: 8000
Channel: FAST, Upstream rate = 443 Kbps, Downstream rate = 9887 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
Channel: Fast
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 2.3 23.9
Attn(dB): 41.0 24.2
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 13.2
Max(Kbps): 10100 1024
Rate (Kbps): 9887 443
G.dmt framing
K: 177(0) 14
R: 0 0
S: 1 1
D: 1 1
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 51 12
B: 176 13
M: 1 1
T: 2 4
R: 0 0
S: 0.5711 0.9911
L: 2479 113
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 7824242 7492538
SFErr: 21234 0
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 7272 0
OCD: 355 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2970354947 376093
Data Cells: 347051409 116071
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 25164 0
SES: 97 0
UAS: 161 0
AS: 127372

INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 16.27 17.84
delay: 0.14 0.24
OR: 28.01 8.07

Bitswap: 14519 0

Total time = 1 days 3 hours 46 min 45 sec
SF = 16747451
CRC = 46444
LOS = 1
LOF = 9
ES = 25164
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 46 min 45 sec
SF = 835775
CRC = 5608
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 1270
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 45 sec
SF = 6531
CRC = 15
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 8
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55267
CRC = 205
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 101
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
SF = 5307369
CRC = 13607
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 4877
15 minutes interval [-30 min to -15 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55266
CRC = 232
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 136
15 minutes interval [-45 min to -30 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55267
CRC = 123
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 74
15 minutes interval [-60 min to -45 min] time = 15 min 0 sec
SF = 55328
CRC = 170
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 103
Showtime Drop Reason: 8000
Last Retrain Reason: 8000