BT alternatives (due to price) OR only.

Looking for 900/100 package. The price I'm paying with BT is very high and they've only offered £70 for 24 month contract renewal which is... crazy especially with yearly increases.

Anyway, I had originally considered Zen due to no increases and a reasonable price, but I've been reading about backhaul issues with Zen which have really put me off. The last 2 years with BT have been very good, not a single issue. I think it's been down like twice for not more than half an hour.

I sadly do not have my own router which rules out a lot of the more quality providers. If it's worth it in the long run I'd consider buying my own, but I don't even use wifi other than on my phone. Wired everywhere else.

I only have access to openreach, none of the alternatives. Well, and virginmedia, but I have had enough bad experiences with them for a lifetime.

Any advice or options I may not have considered would be appreciated.

I asked if people were still having backhaul problems with Zen here and nobody said they were.
It may have passed. Nowadays the main Zen moans seen to be around them preferring you call rather than email and their change of a few people's IP addresses.
I still like and recommend Zen, I haven't seen any backhaul problems. But then again I'm not sure if I'd notice if I did.

Similar for me in Jan, just about offered new customer price. Moved to Plusnet, solid service same full speed all day everyday. Can you wait a few weeks until after 31st March price increase to avoid it this year? Price rises may have changed by next year too due to Ofcom.

£27.50 for 3 months and then £55 for the remainder of the 24 month deal is an achievable deal with BT , have you tried retentions to see what they will offer you ?, this price is broadband only , do you have anything in addition like complete WiFi , a phone service, call plan , TV etc included in your price ?

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 08-Mar-24 19:06:24)

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

Similar for me in Jan, just about offered new customer price. Moved to Plusnet, solid service same full speed all day everyday. Can you wait a few weeks until after 31st March price increase to avoid it this year? Price rises may have changed by next year too due to Ofcom.

I can wait until then, yeah. Where did you hear the price rises may change in relation to Ofcom?

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

£27.50 for 3 months and then £55 for the remainder of the 24 month deal is an achievable deal with BT , have you tried retentions to see what they will offer you ?, this price is broadband only , do you have anything in addition like complete WiFi , a phone service, call plan , TV etc included in your price ?

Just the Xbox game pass for my son. It was included in the original plan, and now is still paid through BT. I haven't tried retentions they sent me an email offering the plan for £70 (that was without the game pass) which is wild.

Ofcom changes here: https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/12/ofcom-...

Doesn't ban increases but is supposed to make them more transparent and not linked to unknown inflation.

These are good changes. I think it might force them to get rid of the practice altogether, but we'll have to see how it pans out.

Plusnet currently showing me £51 per month, no activation fee, no price rise until 31 March 2025.

It's not a bad deal if you need the full 900M, and you don't need IPv6 (which BT does provide).

I say to everyone who's sensitive to price: consider whether 500M or 300M would be good enough. These trim the upload speed too of course. But with Plusnet they would save you £240 or £480 over the 2 years of the contract, which is not to be sneezed at.

It's the difference between a 50GB game download taking 7.5 mins, 13 mins or 22 mins. Either way you're going to have to have a cup of tea and a biscuit.

That price is crazy - I'm paying £39.99 on a save deal. Going up a bit now in April though.

I don't normally like to self promote and try to avoid it, but just wondering if our offerings are something to consider?

https://www.aquiss.net/unlimited-fttp-fibre-broadband/

In reply to a post by aquiss:

I don't normally like to self promote and try to avoid it, but just wondering if our offerings are something to consider?

https://www.aquiss.net/unlimited-fttp-fibre-broadband/

I have been considering aquiss. The only issue is getting a router, and I haven't done nearly enough research in to routers these days.

If you already have a (unlocked) router capable of PPPoE, you will be good to go with Aquiss and you can research for the one you really want later. Given the bandwidth, if you are really using it, you might want to think twice about accepting an ISP router.

Edited by DFScale (Sat 09-Mar-24 23:40:13)

I do use it, and even if I could make do with 500, I'm not willing to have the reduced upload speed. At the price Aquiss charge for example I have no issue at all paying that for internet, but no right now I do not have an unlocked router. I made do with the ISP one because everything is wired, and it seemed to keep up. The goal was always to get a better one eventually, but just never got around to it.

I'm totally out of touch with routers, but I would most likely want one I could put openwrt or merlin on.

If it helps, we do have a growing list

https://support.aquiss.net/en/knowledgebase/article/...

Get a cheap Eero from CEX.

They’re likely from talktalk but I’ve been using them for years without any issue.

Would there be any difference between EE, Plusnet and BT?

Plusnet is only £42 a month right now for 900/110. Increasing based on CPI + 3.9% every March.

EE is £35 for 500/73. Increasing £3 every March.

BT just put my bill up to £82 so I'm needing out.

Aquiss still an option, but the router side of things is giving me a headache that I'm not sure I can be bothered dealing with it.

Not great advice really.
Any supplied ISP router will give you the provided speed on wired at least.
An unlocked router could be any age and may not be up to the speed you have paid for.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

Not great advice really.

Really?

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

Any supplied ISP router will give you the provided speed on wired at least.

You would hope so. But often at the price of having your own LAN locked down

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

An unlocked router could be any age and may not be up to the speed you have paid for.

Thanks
Dan

That's why I suggested going with an unlocked router to start and taking the time to research for a purchase. Remember OP is staring down the barrel of a contract renewal. You can actually buy unlocked routers new.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

Aquiss still an option, but the router side of things is giving me a headache that I'm not sure I can be bothered dealing with it.

Can I ask, a headache in what regard?

You didn't recommend getting a new router, you posted about using one they already had.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

You didn't recommend getting a new router, you posted about using one they already had.

Thanks
Dan

I posted about both. Admittedly I only specified researching a router, but if they were already using a router, why would I suggest researching a router other than for a purchase? To what level of detail do you need things to be explained to you?

Edit: For clarity, my questions are rhetoric. You don't need to answer.

Edited by DFScale (Thu 18-Apr-24 16:57:28)

There are two aspects are two aspects to this. Either or both might be unreasonable, but I'll tell you.

I research things to death, and when I'm buying something to try and find the 'best' rather than what is adequate. To give you an idea of one router I was looking at was the 'ASUS RT-AX88U Pro' currently about £240. Considering I don't even really use Wi-Fi for anything other than the TV and phones, it's probably overkill. I know on your recommended page you have some TP-LINK ones recommended, but some personal bad experiences with their equipment in the past has put me off them, whither warranted *now* or not, I don't know.

I've had two routers in recent years, a fritzbox from Zen (binned it just recently, unfortunately) and an ASUS RT-AC56U (also binned it rather recently). Both worked well enough, but the ASUS had a good UI and at the time I used it could use merlin firmware.

So, I tend to overthink things, and accomplish nothing. Been looking at different routers for days.
-

Now the second problem for me. If I do get x router, and start having issues be it disconnects or other potentially frustrating experiences it will have to be determined if it's on my end or on the ISP end. If it's on my end, and the router is the problem, then I've spent however much on a router that I would then have to replace.

Anyway, that's probably more than you asked for.

why do you need an ax88u pro over the rt 56 (baring merlin being discontinued for that model).

What do you need from a router?.

p.s you could have kept the fritzbox and or rt56 and got the new service and then changed router....... but you have done everything back to front

In reply to a post by Taras:

why do you need an ax88u pro over the rt 56 (baring merlin being discontinued for that model).

What do you need from a router?.

p.s you could have kept the fritzbox and or rt56 and got the new service and then changed router....... but you have done everything back to front

Yep, I'm a bit daft like that.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

Now the second problem for me. If I do get x router, and start having issues be it disconnects or other potentially frustrating experiences it will have to be determined if it's on my end or on the ISP end. If it's on my end, and the router is the problem, then I've spent however much on a router that I would then have to replace.

But "most expensive" does not necessarily equate to "best" (in that context, "most reliable")

"Most expensive" often means "has the very latest bleeding edge version of wifi chipset", for example. By staying a generation or two behind, not only are you paying less, but you're getting something more stable that has had the bugs shaken out.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

But "most expensive" does not necessarily equate to "best" (in that context, "most reliable")

"Most expensive" often means "has the very latest bleeding edge version of wifi chipset", for example. By staying a generation or two behind, not only are you paying less, but you're getting something more stable that has had the bugs shaken out.

or in the case of Asus' ET12 not really getting enough updates and being the elephant in the room compared to the rest of range.

I basically just need something reliable that can do the full gig. (or higher to be futureproof, but not a requirement) Wifi is an after thought for me. I only need it for the TV downstairs, and mobile device. If not for that I may have just bought an edgerouter x.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

I basically just need something reliable that can do the full gig. (or higher to be futureproof, but not a requirement) Wifi is an after thought for me. I only need it for the TV downstairs, and mobile device. If not for that I may have just bought an edgerouter x.

So, you have a TV and a mobile. What is your use case that requires 1Gig connection?

To put it in perspective I have 6 person household (boys all online gaming etc) >30 wireless devices, 2 servers, 4 AP's, VOIP, 3 TV's, CCTV system, 2 inbound VPN's, work VPN all running off an AX92U (running the Gnuton fork of Merlin) which on Zen CF 300 (300 down, 500 up) connection never misses a beat.
an AX88u pro is total overkill.

The TV and mobiles are not the main use. My son games & streams on twitch. I do a lot of torrenting etc. (both of which are wired)

Edited by Xuse (Fri 19-Apr-24 18:10:04)

In reply to a post by Taras:

why do you need an ax88u pro over the rt 56 (baring merlin being discontinued for that model).

What do you need from a router?.

p.s you could have kept the fritzbox and or rt56 and got the new service and then changed router....... but you have done everything back to front

This is what I don't understand from some people, they pay silly money for a router that they don't need, where a cheaper router will do fine unless they are going to go for over 1Gbit internet. Sure no good going too cheap like the Tenda ones that Amazon sell for £15, certainly not now, would be okay for ADSL I suppose.
But something like the TP-Link Archer C6 at £50 would do for many people, it has a one mesh system, so you can add a mesh system to it if you need to. I have the Archer AX53, but only because it was on offer, I would have gone for the one below otherwise.

I can understand some people who muck around with their routers and have different services running at home may want something flashy, but then I would expect them to make their own and run something like OPNSense.

In reply to a post by Xuse:

[...]
I research things to death, and when I'm buying something to try and find the 'best' rather than what is adequate. [...]

So, I tend to overthink things, and accomplish nothing. Been looking at different routers for days.

I kinda understand the tendancy to overresearch things and hence go round in circle.

However what I will say is that there is something quite liberating about just taking the 'good enough' / 'it just works' route!

I've been with TalkTalk for years, never had an issue and now on the Fibre 900 for a little over £50 a month and the package comes with 2 Eero routers which have performed extremely well, excellent wifi range range too, now get a great signal in the garden.

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

... the package comes with 2 Eero routers ...

Why would an internet package come with 2 routers? Or is one of them mis-described?

In reply to a post by DFScale:

In reply to a post by neo_wales:

... the package comes with 2 Eero routers ...

Why would an internet package come with 2 routers? Or is one of them mis-described?

It is a mesh system, so one is used as a router and the other is used as an extender. A strange thing to have another router just as an extender. Overpriced and overhyped

Eeros are just over priced.

Remember that a router is really a modem, router,switch, wifi access point, and other servers.

Turning off the router part with a wifi routers just makes into an ap/ switch. or with a modem router,into a modem or an ap/switch. That is nothing new.

I've got a router that can't act as a modem.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

I've got a router that can't act as a modem.

I've got a router that can't act as a modem *or* a wifi access point. I have separate wifi APs, and although I don't need a modem now with FTTP, previously I had a separate modem for FTTC.

Putting the wifi APs in an optimum position for good coverage makes a huge difference.

You two both knew what i mean.. Yes some units can't do what i said..

And yes some routers are only router-switches.. that said you can get a single port router tooo ............

In reply to a post by Taras:

Eeros are just over priced.

Remember that a router is really a modem, router,switch, wifi access point, and other servers.

Turning off the router part with a wifi routers just makes into an ap/ switch. or with a modem router,into a modem or an ap/switch. That is nothing new.

Depends, my router doesn't have a modem and as more of us go for pure fibre there will be less router with built-in modems.

Eeros also need an Amazon account for some reason while my router does have a feature for a TPLink ID, it is not needed unless I use the home shield or want to access the config of the router away from home.

In reply to a post by Taras:

You two both knew what i mean.. Yes some units can't do what i said..

And yes some routers are only router-switches.. that said you can get a single port router tooo ............

Like the one that my ISP provided, ok two port, but still a pain if i used it

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Depends, my router doesn't have a modem and as more of us go for pure fibre there will be less router with built-in modems.

You will start to see more and more ont and a router combined. Quite a few altnets are using them

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Eeros also need an Amazon account for some reason while my router does have a feature for a TPLink ID, it is not needed unless I use the home shield or want to access the config of the router away from home.

yuck....... an account to use your router.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Eeros are just over priced.

Remember that a router is really a modem, router,switch, wifi access point, and other servers.

Turning off the router part with a wifi routers just makes into an ap/ switch. or with a modem router,into a modem or an ap/switch. That is nothing new.

Come free with TalkTalk

Price also comes down massively on Amazon Prime days and Black Friday. When discounted it made for a relatively cost effective mesh network and I now use it as the router as well as it is good enough for my needs.

In reply to a post by Taras:

You will start to see more and more ont and a router combined. Quite a few altnets are using them

Is there? Not sure if that is a good idea, fibre is pretty fragile and if people start mucking around with to put different routers on or to move their router then there will be more problems. More difficult to extend fibre for the majority of people. At least with an ONT, all I had to do was stick a longer Ethernet cable on it to put the router where I like

yuck....... an account to use your router.

I think it is possible not to link it to Amazon, but as far as i can make out, it still needs some sort of account, also by the seems of it you can't configure it via a computer and need an app on your mobile, but I could be wrong.
With my TP link, i can access basic settings via the app if I want to, but I need to log in with a browser to go deeper.
I don't like the idea of the Eero, being linked to an account run by some large company. No, thanks. I know I have echo units that is run by that company, but if Amazon gets funny with them, I can switch them off and no harm done, my internet is still accusable.

i am going to buy a mesh extension for my router, so I can get a signal outside in the backyard, well a better signal outside in the backyard . I just have to look at what TPlink have got, don't need anything superfast as it will only be for listening to music or audio books .

It gets worse, to use Dynamic DNS you'll need to stump up for an eero Plus subscription at £10/month!

I was about to post that this wasn't the case as I setup DDNS and don't have a subscription. But, I paid for a sub for the first year and decided that it wasn't worth renewing. I setup DDNS 4 days before the sub ran out and on checking it is no longer working and when I go into the settings it does indeed ask me to pay the subscription (although you can pay £99.99 for a year which is cheaper than the monthly payment). Ah well, was only using it for the BQM anyway so haven't lost much.

When I had the sub I started using it for the ad blocking but found a number of sites that won't serve content if blocking ads so I turned it off. Must admit the subscription is possibly the worst part of the Eero setup but for the most part I am not that worried about the features it provides. Maybe when it comes time to get Wifi6E or Wifi7 I might find a different mesh tech but those at the moment are just too expensive.

I did use TPLink some years back for a wifi extender but the devices I had weren't great. Haven't tried the full mesh equipment - maybe they would be better value and similar performance?

Someone else, less knowledgeable, might take what you stated as gospel. Just clarifying.

A little off topic, but are Aquiss fttp connections now completely over the openreach network? I always thought you handed over your backhaul to the entanet network at the earliest opportunity?

Many apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but do Aquiss meet the OP's requirements of sticking with the same infrastructure that BT use?

I'd be delighted if I'm wrong about this, as I'd add Aquiss to my short list too if you don't hand over backhaul to another network at some point in its journey to the main data centres in London.

I sincerely doubt Aquiss have presence in every FTTP handover exchange - it's really only BT Wholesale and TalkTalk who can do that. Maybe Sky as well, not sure.

The issues that some providers have had is not because they didn't have their own backhaul, it's because they couldn't purchase capacity on those links in time or manage supplier relationships effectively. Some providers using Zen backhaul when Zen were (are?) having issues somewhere between their network and the Openreach OLTs was to go "oh, thanks for explaining that to us, bye" and not move customers to other links or push back on Zen to get their service fixed.

Edited by jpm (Tue 23-Apr-24 18:01:08)

In reply to a post by Spudgun:

A little off topic, but are Aquiss fttp connections now completely over the openreach network? I always thought you handed over your backhaul to the entanet network at the earliest opportunity?

Many apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but do Aquiss meet the OP's requirements of sticking with the same infrastructure that BT use?

Aquiss get the IP services from City Fibre, whom I have found to be consistently reliable over 15 years, with a gap of 2 years until recently. I only know that I am using City Fibre now because I recognise the IP addresses of the DNS

As I understand OP's requirements, they want OR for the 'first mile' in order to have a choice of suppliers, otherwise they are not stipulating how it is done.

In reply to a post by sjr:

It gets worse, to use Dynamic DNS you'll need to stump up for an eero Plus subscription at £10/month!

Ouch, to use TP-links own dynamic DNS on my router a TP-link ID is needed, but there is no charge, but it is possible to use no-ip and DYNdns

In reply to a post by Taras:

You will start to see more and more ont and a router combined. Quite a few altnets are using them

That's an error of the magnitude of the MantaRay/frog Alcatel USB modem from 2002 when ADSL started.

Any NTE, either passive (BT "master socket") or active ("ONT") should be separate to the ISP chosen hardware, and ONT's should be screwed to the wall to protect the fibre.

Using an ONT/Router in one unit is going to cause fibre breaks as people reposition to try and solve WiFi issues.

Small Alt-Net's I hope...

Yeah, separate devices is way to go, and screwing ONT to wall in a out of the way location is the smoothest way to reduce clutter from such a setup.

I think they finally realised combo units was a mistake, and I hope we dont go back to it.

I completely agree, don't get me wrong for one moment, but and a big but, we have seen alt nets use all in ones.

I kept my hg612 till last september, 10 years of usage!! I prefer the incoming connection as a ethernet presntation ready to be fed into the local network - i hate those combined jobbies

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Yeah, separate devices is way to go, and screwing ONT to wall in a out of the way location is the smoothest way to reduce clutter from such a setup.

I think they finally realised combo units was a mistake, and I hope we dont go back to it.

I prefer them being separate than I can just change the router if I want to, routers are cheap and is easy to get a replacement if it goes wrong.
the only thing I wish my provider did was put the ONT under the shelf where my router is, but I understand why they did not, as it would be a bit of a pain. So it is behind the TV and I used a longer Ethernet cable to the router.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I kept my hg612 till last september, 10 years of usage!! I prefer the incoming connection as a ethernet presntation ready to be fed into the local network - i hate those combined jobbies

I have to sort out my old stuff, routers and Modems, I know the ECI modem don't work, I tried it before my FTTC was disconnected, so that can be dumped.
I am not going to get rid of anything else until I decide what I am doing after my FTTP contract is up.

My eci modem dropped my speed from 16-18mbits to 8mbits if i remember correctly......... Now i don't care about 7mbits lol

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by Taras:

I kept my hg612 till last september, 10 years of usage!! I prefer the incoming connection as a ethernet presntation ready to be fed into the local network - i hate those combined jobbies

I have to sort out my old stuff, routers and Modems, I know the ECI modem don't work, I tried it before my FTTC was disconnected, so that can be dumped.
I am not going to get rid of anything else until I decide what I am doing after my FTTP contract is up.

I gave one of the spare ECI modems I had to a friend who took the lid off and found the capacitors were starting to fail (Bulging/leaking) so it wouldn't surprise me if others are suffering the same fate given their age.

In reply to a post by Taras:

You will start to see more and more ont and a router combined. Quite a few altnets are using them

The new VM Hub 5X has this setup (sort of), with the fibre connected into it. I'm sure there will be a few broken fibre lines in due course ......

In reply to a post by Spudgun:

A little off topic, but are Aquiss fttp connections now completely over the openreach network? I always thought you handed over your backhaul to the entanet network at the earliest opportunity?

The Openreach network only runs as far as the exchange. After that every connection gets handed over to a different backhaul. Not sure why Entanet is any different.

Many apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but do Aquiss meet the OP's requirements of sticking with the same infrastructure that BT use?

That's not how I read their post. They simply ruled out the Zen backhaul.
Picking a provider who uses BT Wholesale backhaul like BT will not mean the same performance. BT Wholesale is sold in many ways and they can differ a lot between providers.
The backhaul is only part of it anyway, between the exchange and the provider. You then have from the provider and your end point which will again differ between providers.
BT have their own core beyond their LNS. Other providers might simply buy transit/peering.

I'd be delighted if I'm wrong about this, as I'd add Aquiss to my short list too if you don't hand over backhaul to another network at some point in its journey to the main data centres in London.

Nothing unique about what Aquiss do that would make me rule them out.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 10-Jun-24 21:45:04)

I was in the same boat as OP and couldn't stomach the £85 a year for AA's 900Mb any longer.

After initially deciding to go back to Uno as I'd previously been with them before, I got the unfortunate news that they are unable to do FTTP migrations. No ETA was given as to when they would be able to take me on. I got the impression it wouldn't be any time soon.

After a bit more research I've decided to give Aquiss a shot. Never been with them before but have only read positive things about them. Go live date is 20th of June and I'm happy with the £55 a month long term price, and the discounted first 6 months sweetens the deal. I've already called up a couple of times with some pre-sales queries and every time I spoke to them it was a pleasant experience. Looking forward to go live!