Classicfying (!) Win 10 Start Menu

Just getting into Win 10 on my new desktop. I'm sure I'll have more Qs later but for now is there any way of making the Start Menu more like it was in Win 7 (or even 8 with Classic Shell) & earlier? In particular:

1. Can the alphabetic sectioning be removed?
2. Can the metro apps under All Apps be dropped w/out losing them completely and preferably grouping them together under a sub-menu? I know where the entries for the real programs are indexed, but can't find where the index of the metro apps are held.
3. Similarly, can the tiles on the R be removed w/out losing them completely?
4. Why aren't there sub-menus of menus of programs under All Apps even when there are sub-folders within the storage of the index of real programs.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 13-Dec-15 02:36:27)

http://www.howtogeek.com/197836/8-ways-to-customize-...

Best thing is to use a 3rd party replacement, like Classic shell, When I was using 10 I used startisback, which is what I am still using on windows 8.

The main point of upgrading from Win 8.1, where I am using Classic Shell, to Win 10 is to get back to the normal Windows tailorable Start Menu, only to have to go back to Classic Shell to get it .

I'm using Classic Shell on my Win 10 laptop, and have set it to look almost the same as it was on Win 7. No tiles visible unless I click on Windows 10 start menu.

I'd have stuck with the Win 10 menu but I couldn't get my programs on the Start list, only as tiles or in a personal folder, both of which didn't suit me. It seems that you can only put folders into the text list, not individual programs. Unless someone knows otherwise of course.

Thanks. I had seen that article but it does not address any of my queries other than saying unpin the tiles manually 1-by-1, which is obvious but not what I was after.

I could not get many of their tweaks to work/appear:

1. Personalize does not lead to Color and Appearance dialog.
2. Can't Pin Items from the Left Side of the Start Menu, which would have been v. useful.
3. No �Remove from this list�.
4. No "Properties" on background & no Start Menu tab.

Hi
When I was running windows 8 I used "Start 8" from Stardock to return the start menu to the desktop.

Stardock have introduced "Start 10" which I think gives you a windows 7 start menu.

I think you can try it for 30 day before you have to buy, when I purchased "Start 8" for windows 8 it cost less than $5 (yes less than 5 dollars) so it won't break the bank.

http://www.stardock.com/products/

The start menu properties are in Settings now

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

It seems that you can only put folders into the text list, not individual programs. Unless someone knows otherwise of course.

Yes you can!. You put the shortcuts to the individual programs directly under either:

• For all users: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs , or
• For you alone: C:\Users\you\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

rather than any sub-folder below there.

Where? I've already told you I can't find them now. My "Taskbar & Start Menu Properties", which I can only get to from the Taskbar not the background, only has the tabs: Taskbar, Notifications & Toolbars; no Start Menu tab!

Please show me where you can find them?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The main point of upgrading from Win 8.1, where I am using Classic Shell, to Win 10 is to get back to the normal Windows tailorable Start Menu, only to have to go back to Classic Shell to get it .

Windows 10 start menu is not the normal tailorable start menu., that is the problem. If you want to pin software shortcuts to the start menu on ten, then you end up with those awful tiles. Windows 10 start menu is not very configurable at all. I used it for over a month and gave up going back to startisback, which is more like the Windows 7 menu. That was until I went back to Windows 8.1

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Please show me where you can find them?

Start > Settings > Personalisation > Start

I found "Choose which folders appear on Start" quite nice since it allowed me to customise the left side of the menu to more like how I wanted it.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

It seems that you can only put folders into the text list, not individual programs. Unless someone knows otherwise of course.

Yes you can!. You put the shortcuts to the individual programs directly under either:

• For all users: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs , or
• For you alone: C:\Users\you\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

rather than any sub-folder below there.

Perhaps I described what I was trying to achieve badly.

In Windows 7 those locations are where "All Programs" are detailed; not where the 'pinned' apps are detailed. Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

I've now found that In Windows 7 the pinned apps locations are described here. I haven't had chance to try these on Windows 10.

Yes, I found that eventually, but it is not where HowToGeek said it would be and it is missing some v. useful shortcuts like Control Panel, Devices & This PC that they show. Also missing is "Enable Context Menus and dragging & dropping" which is a big thing of a proper menu system which is sadly lacking in Win 10.

HowToGeek admits that they did that on a pre-release of Win 10. Looks like MS have slugged it even further once they got to proper release which makes it almost useless .

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

It does for me! Putting a shortcut or a folder of shortcuts there appears under All Apps. These have always been the traditional Windows locations for its entire real programs menu system. Even systems like Classic Shell rely on them. These have nowt to do with the Metro apps tiles if that is where you are looking.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

I've now found that In Windows 7 the pinned apps locations are described here.

Good find but these only contain shortcuts to real programs. Again none of the Metro apps appear under here.

Well, all that waiting for Win 10 thinking it'll bring back the classic menus that we had up to Win 7 and those provided by Win 8 extensions like Classic Shell has come to nought . It is bit of a con for MS to claim it is even more flexible & tailorable than before.

Besides the ugly look of it, a big feature missing is to be able to reorder the menu items in a nested structure by sliding items (files or folders) from 1 place to another. All Apps is a fixed alphabetic list allowing just 1 level of nesting of folders.

I guess I'll be back to Classic Shell as soon as I've set my new PC up.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

It does for me! Putting a shortcut or a folder of shortcuts there appears under All Apps. These have always been the traditional Windows locations for its entire real programs menu system. Even systems like Classic Shell rely on them. These have nowt to do with the Metro apps tiles if that is where you are looking.

I agree. When I said no effect I was referring to the apps list that is immediately visible on clicking Start. I agree they change the All Apps lists, but that's a click further than I want for a very short list of perhaps 6-8 apps.

I know very few people who like the new menu on Windows 10 and the few I know that have updated to 10 have asked me about a replacement, so I give them two choice, Classic shell, which seems to be the best free one or Start is back, which is not free, but I think it is better than Classic shell.

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

It seems to be a thoroughly rubbish product, given that the whole raison d'etre of Windows is windows themselves and the user interface.

The attempt all the time to move us away from movable window usage, nowadays essential for serious business use, is surely self-defeating.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

Ultimately yes, because in four years time Microsoft will cease support for Windows 7.

Theoretically they could get in the same situation they were with XP and end up extending the support window if most business customers don't move. They may also go back on their comment that Windows 10 is the "last windows" and release another version of Windows in 2-3 years time (just within the Win 7 support timeframe).

However, most large business and government bodies will be looking to a move to Win 10 over the next 3-4 years. Anyone that has any sort of compliance requirement is going to have to be planning the move anyway.

In reply to a post by ian72:

They may also go back on their comment that Windows 10 is the "last windows" and release another version of Windows in 2-3 years time (just within the Win 7 support timeframe).

They don't necessarily need to release Windows 11. Since Windows 10 is the last Windows it can presumably evolve over time, and in contrast to previous versions the start menu (for example) can be radically redesigned in upcoming months or years in response to consumer feedback.

Edited by Oliver341 (Tue 15-Dec-15 13:16:06)

I know - but the question was whether people would have to upgrade to Win 10 but theoretically they could release a Win 11 and therefore companies could skip another version.

Interestingly despite MS saying it is "the last version" they do have an end of support date of 14/10/2025 which is in line with their previous support lifecycles. That suggests either someone didn't update the "rules" for lifecycle OR they don't expect it to be the last version OR they expect that after 2025 MS won't be doing a desktop OS.

EDIT - Corrected end of support date. Not my fault I'm so used to typing 2015

Edited by ian72 (Tue 15-Dec-15 13:44:26)

Last October? Are you sure?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Interestingly despite MS saying it is "the last version" they do have an end of support date of 14/10/2015 which is in line with their previous support lifecycles. That suggests either someone didn't update the "rules" for lifecycle OR they don't expect it to be the last version OR they expect that after 2025 MS won't be doing a desktop OS.

Yeah, doesn't make much sense to set a support end date when the next OS has not even been planned let alone released.

Oops. Corrected. Get so used to typing the current year...

They have a standard published lifecycle that all products are supposed to follow. XP was an exception. They are saying 10 is an exception but are still publishing dates following the "standard" lifecycle. That does also mean it will be in "extended support" from 13 October 2020 - that means it supposedly would get no functionality enhancements just patches for security and bugs. So, in fact the OS currently only has an active lifetime up till 2020.

Some organisations may have a policy to only use products in mainstream support and therefore would be looking for MS to be releasing a new product by end of 2018 at the latest to allow them time to upgrade. MS either need to change their lifecycle or admit they will be releasing new versions of Windows.

2 weeks and counting

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

2 weeks and counting

It will take at least 3 months before I stop writing 2015 on everything... Glad I don't write cheques any more!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

It seems to be a thoroughly rubbish product, given that the whole raison d'etre of Windows is windows themselves and the user interface.

The attempt all the time to move us away from movable window usage, nowadays essential for serious business use, is surely self-defeating.

We are still using XP at work, I think a lot of corporations will take a while to update to 10, but since it is the last Windows, so we are told, then eventually they will have to move to it or drop MS and go for Linux.
How I would love that to happen.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

Ultimately yes, because in four years time Microsoft will cease support for Windows 7.

Made no difference to the company I work for, they still use XP.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

In reply to a post by ian72:

They may also go back on their comment that Windows 10 is the "last windows" and release another version of Windows in 2-3 years time (just within the Win 7 support timeframe).

They don't necessarily need to release Windows 11. Since Windows 10 is the last Windows it can presumably evolve over time, and in contrast to previous versions the start menu (for example) can be radically redesigned in upcoming months or years in response to consumer feedback.

And it is this so-called evolve over time thing that is scary. MS in theory could add anything and change Windows 10 how they want and we would not be able to stop it, because it is in the EULA that we must accept updates. The EULA is scary anyway and there is so many privacy issues with 10.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

I agree they change the All Apps lists, but that's a click further than I want for a very short list of perhaps 6-8 apps.

Yes, I see the All Apps list as analogous to the Programs list in pre-Win 8 Menus with the difference that you don't have to click that but just hover.

The short list above All Apps is analogous to the fixed list below Programs but with far less flexibility in its configuration. They are mostly not apps or programs as such but lists of Windowy things/locations.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 17-Dec-15 00:37:03)

From my short experience with Win 10, I see the Win 10 Start Menu as not the claimed improvement but as the Win 8 Start Menu with the Metro Tiles Start Screen moved adjacent to the Start Menu.