I Joined Plusnet. (BT Plusnet) *DELETED*

Post deleted by seb

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Dec-12 19:13:41)

In reply to a post by superspeed:

I really didn�t want to put up with BT�s useless Indian call centres

Sheffield accents are slightly easier to understand.

Are you sure you were on 20/40 originally?

Note, most people (me included) would put the downstream first, so refer to it as 40/20.

The two packages being offered *ought* to have been 40/10 and 80/20... I don't think Openreach have ever had a 40/20 combination!

There is no such company as Volkswagen Bentley.
There is no such company as BMW Rolls-Royce.
There is no such company as Unilever Persil.
There is no such company as Fiat Ferrari.
There is no such company as BT Plusnet.

I was ment to say what you have said but I have just got them the wrong way round. I'm not used to this new system and still confuses me.

Think your right about the 40/10 though.

I was ment to be on 80 down and 20 up but because of the order cockup by PN, I was on 40 down and must of been 10 up.

I will correct part of what I said.

Here is the speed test I did on the day. That confirms I was on the 40/10 value fibre service.

???? lol Roberto it's a bit of light hearted humor/joke.

Well there is now such thing as BT Plusnet, as I invented it.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

. I'm not used to this new system and still confuses me.

Which new system is that?

Didn't know PN operates in the USA.

There, that's my bit of humour for today.

That would look like 40/2 not 40/10. Or else a very slow value of "10".

Ray I am only going to reply to you, if your going to be constructive and sensible.

I'm talking about how fibre is described 40/10. instead of just saying 8meg, 40meg. That's all.

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Dec-12 19:10:06)

Ok thanks I'm just going to say 40 down then. Lol

Nothing stopping you saying 40 Meg down

The issue is that there are two 40Mbps down products. 40/2 and 40/10.

Simples .

I nearly replied to your reply to me, with a little dig at your americanism, which is all XRaySpeX was doing. My post about BT-Plusnet was also semi-humourous, but semi-serious as well.

You aren't allowed a monopoly on humour .

I would like to thank scott from PN for calling me back today like he said, about my speed issues.

It seems to be as we thought, that I was on value fiber with 40 down. Reason for slow speeds.




Also I had another call today about a fault that was raised and now closed from another PN staff member. I can't remember there name. Thanks for calling about it.

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Dec-12 19:26:31)

Yes, my point exactly.
I suspect that the 40/20 (or 20/40 whatever) in the OP might have been meant as 40/2 (2/40) but misreported somewhere along the line where a "0" has managed to stealthily creep in.

Yes that is sort of what I have done. Saves all the confusion.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

Saves all the confusion.

But is no fun.

I switched over to Plusnet a couple of months back when FTTC became available. The Open Reach guy appeared at dead-on the 08:00 on the day scheduled.

I explained the rather mixed wiring in this 40 year old house with extensions. He got it first time, fitted the socket, connected to modem etc. As we are at the end of a long, winding road (must be a song in that), at least 700 yards from the box, I wasn't expecting full 76 Mbps but 31 seemed fair enough.

Since then we have been plagued with intermittent disconnections, sometimes in the early hours when we are all shut down and asleep.

In all this Plusnet have acted impeccably, answered promptly, arranged revisits (and the guys from OR have turned up).

The problem hasn't been solved but I can't fault PN.

If the Mayans were wrong we will try again in the New Year.

So now you are fully on an 80/20 package from Plusnet, what sync speeds are you getting (or what IP Profiles)?

If you haven't unlocked your modem, the best thing is to run the BT Wholesale test and then progress on to the "further diagnostics" page.

I hope so. I just done a test. Can't copy and paste, so have uploaded it. Is that not short of what I should get?

I was quoted 50Mb down and 10.9Mb up


http://s6.postimage.org/fbxh2sby9/BT_speed_test_18_1...

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Dec-12 22:40:24)

I hope one day you can get it sorted. We will still be here on the 21st dec, so don't worry.

You need to hit the button on the bottom of that page, and then report back all the text - particularly the ones that mention IP Profile

OK thanks. Thought I heard on PN forum that wholesale will discontinue a few of them and stick to the higher ones.

You can't win them all.

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
44 Mbps

0 Mbps 0 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 44 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 45.33 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
8.32 Mbps

0 Mbps 20 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.32Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

I want to check something. Now I always turn my router off to save power and for security. Never had a problem with my old LLU.

If I leave the modem on but turn the router off, is it correct it won't show up as a drop or mess my line speed/profile up? I was told you can turn the router off but best to leave the modem on.

In reply to a post by superspeed:

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
44 Mbps

0 Mbps 0 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 44 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 16 Mbps-0 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 45.33 Mbps

That IP profile value shows your maximum downstream speed - 45.33 Mbps, including some of the overheads.

You will be synchronising at 46.8Mbps

With those speeds, you can expect to download content at a maximum of around 43-44 Mbps (ie Megabits), which means you got a very good result from the tester! That would be equivalent to around 5.3 MBps (Megabytes).

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
8.32 Mbps

0 Mbps 20 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 8.32Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps

If you are really sync'ed at 20Mbps upstream, that's a pretty slow result. I wonder what your real sync speed is?

I would leave both on for a couple of days, as that's the Openreach settling in period on fibre. After that I think you are OK to turn off the router at night, unless BT Wholesale really do have something checking for the first 10 days - the idiots - as their system will recognise the router being off. But! That shouldn't matter - I'm just being overcautious for you.

And dammit man ! . Another americanism - it's "fibre" not "fiber". Grrrrr .... (Edit - just seen that you had already corrected it ).

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 19-Dec-12 00:06:24)

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

If you are really sync'ed at 20Mbps upstream, that's a pretty slow result. I wonder what your real sync speed is?

The upstream profile on 80/20 is always 20, independent of sync.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The upstream profile on 80/20 is always 20, independent of sync.

I think my brain filled up on other stuff. I had to pop *something* off the stack

Thanks. I just realised I the speed test you gave is the same one as I used yesterday. I followed a link on another forum. The results seem to contradict what I got tonight. Something don't seem right.

I took a screen grab at the time

http://s6.postimage.org/s4ll2pnk1/17_12_12_BT_speed_...

Thanks.

It's already been left on for a few nights. I could switch it off later and call PN tomorrow, to see if it caused any problems.

Edited by deleted (Tue 18-Dec-12 23:44:12)

In reply to a post by superspeed:

Thanks. I just realised I the speed test you gave is the same one as I used yesterday. I followed a link on another forum. The results seem to contradict what I got tonight. Something don't seem right.

I took a screen grab at the time

http://s6.postimage.org/s4ll2pnk1/17_12_12_BT_speed_...

Yes - your downstream sync speed has reduced since this test was performed. Here the sync speed is approximately 51Mbps.

That *might* be expected behaviour, due to DLM intervention and the addition of interleaving + error correction.

Can you tell us, with a fair amount of precision, what date & time your new 80/20 package was activated (by BT, not Plusnet), and what date/time both the first and most recent speedtests were done?

I'd recommend that you keep an eye on the downstream profile value, and see if it changes any more. If it does, and changes often, it could be a sign of problems with your line.

Well don't forget I was on 40/2 but PN told me that I was regraded about 4am Monday morning to 80/20.

The time I took that snap shot was 11:24am on 17 dec. That would of been within seconds of the test being done. It was hours after the regrade. Connected on 14th but not sure on the time. That was on 40/02 though.

Thats all I know.

Just done a quick speed test on TB.

Date 19/12/12 00:55:35
Speed Down 40652.89 Kbps ( 39.7 Mbps )
Speed Up 9151.69 Kbps ( 8.9 Mbps )

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13558...

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 12:14:03)

DLM would normally act after 48 hours, but can be earlier.

For now, just keep an eye on the Profile values from the BT Speedtester. It doesn't have to be too regular, but just watch to see if it changes much.

Well roberto I switched off my router last night and called PN this morning.

The PN TS confirmed it did not affect my speed or profile. He could see I switched it off. The modem was left on. I am also still in the 10 day training period.

I will be swaping over a modem and some routers soon though. I bought the buffalo and another router cheap off ebay. Saved myself £10 with the buffalo.




Yes it's a habit using american words as we were brought up with it, but is correct now. Lol

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 12:38:04)

Thanks. PN told me that DLM stays on the line all the time, which is stupid but that's not PN fault.

PN could only see my last BT speed test not the one I did on the 17th. So I am going to take screen grabs now of all my speed tests from BT, if I don't forget. LOL

Lucky me, Plusnet fault team had disabled DLM for me and fixed SNRM. Yep it was stupid DLM put me SNR too high at 18dB with stable line. Every few days it kept pushed the SNR from 3dB to 18dB and lowest sync speed. The fault team had a word with BT via echat and BT agreed to disabled DLM and fixed SNRM of 3dB at the local exchange and it staying there for a month now

Edited by adslmax (Wed 19-Dec-12 12:48:43)

WWWombat as your good at this, can you tell me what you make of my line stats?

Just got this up and running. The error rates are going up though.
http://s6.postimage.org/dyf0yyrgh/HUAWEI_HG610_modem...

Errors are minimal!

When I said the errors are going up, they are going up as I type this.

as of 17:51 now

CRC errors 0 0 0 0
FEC errors 28 3 0 0
HEC errors 80 0

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 17:53:02)

Give Uptime as well to put into context.

The error stats in the GUI are rubbish. You need to telnet in from a command prompt and run

xdslcmd info --stats

Up stream is to the right. It's 3. I will wait for wombat' s professional opinion later.

Stats again. as of now
Downstream Upstream
CRC errors 0 0
FEC errors 37 3
HEC errors 133 0

PN said this morning, I only had about two errors but that was on the ECI modem setup. Thats why I am a bit worried. If to many errors, it may affect my line.

Duh! "UpTime" not "Upstream"! As in:

DSL up time | 958

I will wait for wombat' s professional opinion later.

What an insult when you can't even bother to read my post and you are too stupid to realise that error stats are a function of time.

EDIT: This is a Forum where everyone's ideas are valid, not a consultant's surgery.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 19-Dec-12 18:23:25)

Unless I have done it wrong, I get to login and password but it won't let me type the password for some reason.

You mean when trying to telnet?

Unless you've changed things they are admin/admin. Press Return after each.
The line after that you type sh Return.

That was not ment as an insult. He will be able to tell me much more about my line, thats all I ment.

Uptime is not accurate, as I left the modem on for over an hour, because the stupid thing would not let me log in.

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 18:22:53)

Yes but when gets to password, it won't type on the screen for some reason. Like it's blocked. It's as you say, default.

LOL
It just doesn't show. Type it and press return. At ATP type sh and press return.

Local Echo ON

Yes you were right.

My connection went down over 20 minutes ago. For some reason I was disconnected, Don�t know if it was because of telnet but it would not re connect, even when renew ip address. So here they are. Back on the other modem for now.


# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 13587 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49860 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49681 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.1 7.2
Attn(dB): 0.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.0 6.9
VDSL2 framing
Path 0
B: 239 118
M: 1 2
T: 64 58
R: 0 16
S: 0.1537 0.6293
L: 12489 3229
D: 1 1
I: 240 127
N: 240 254
Counters
Path 0
OHF: 2260492 612100
OHFErr: 60 3
RS: 0 1125968
RSCorr: 0 84
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Path 0
HEC: 234 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 532125864 0
Data Cells: 200983 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 3136 3136
AS: 5583

Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 2.45 9.12
delay: 0.00 0.00
OR: 81.30 56.11

Bitswap: 0 2775

Total time = 2 hours 57 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 60 0
ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 3136 3136
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 7 0
ES: 5 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 15 0
ES: 8 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 57 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 60 0
ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 3136 3136
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 33 min 3 sec
FEC: 0 84
CRC: 60 3
ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
#

Edited by deleted (Wed 19-Dec-12 18:57:20)

they not useless just remember FEC and CRC are backwards.

From personal experience on adsl (and so far on vdsl) normal errored seconds can be ignored, its severely errored seconds that are enough to impact the connection.

On my own sync uptime which is now around 6 days (since I unlocked modem). I have had 3 bursts of crc errors on seperate occasions which causes severely errored seconds, all 3 didnt register on my TBB graph. Outside of those 3 occasions I have a trickle of crc errors averaging around 3-10 per 15 minutes.

If CRC is very close to the ES count and SES is 0 then I would say nothing at all to worry about on line errors.

Here is my previous 24h.

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 611 0
ES: 283 46
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

so no severely errored seconds, and the errored seconds I have had average 3 CRC per errored second. As a comparison on a lower bitrate adsl connection some years ago I used to average 30k or so crc errors a day on fast path.

since the sync uptime which includes the 3 bursts of CRC that caused severely errored seconds.

Since Link time = 6 days 3 hours 8 min 5 sec
FEC: 0 3017
CRC: 12116 247
ES: 1858 218
SES: 16 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

This hasnt been enough to trigger DLM and if it wasnt for these modem stats I would have been unaware of errors as my line has seemed fine whenever I have used it. No speed loss, packet loss etc.

you now have mine to compare to.

Errors are minimal!

Sorry, I've been busy the last day, and I start moving around the country a lot for the next 2-3 weeks, so I won't be on here much.

I can comment on the stats, but they've not been running too long...

In reply to a post by superspeed:

My connection went down over 20 minutes ago. For some reason I was disconnected, Don�t know if it was because of telnet but it would not re connect, even when renew ip address. So here they are. Back on the other modem for now.

Yes, I can see from the set of statistics. The first batch (usually the accumulated set for the whole time that the modem has been turned on) show a high UAS (unavailable seconds), compared with the final set (the accumulated set since the last sync).

In the first batch, you normally see UAS jump in small batches (say 20) each time a resync occurs.

B: 239 118
M: 1 2
T: 64 58
R: 0 16
S: 0.1537 0.6293
L: 12489 3229
D: 1 1
I: 240 127
N: 240 254

Path 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 2.45 9.12
delay: 0.00 0.00
OR: 81.30 56.11

So there is no interleaving required on either upstream or downstream (INP and delay both zero).

Downstream doesn't have FEC running (R=0) either, so there's no protection. Upstream is using R=16, which suggests there's some parity in use for protection - and explains why the upstream speed doesn't quite reach the full attainable figure (16/254 is 6%). However, it isn't being used for real noise protection (otherwise INP and delay would also be non-zero).

This is backed up by:

RSCorr: 0 84
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Total time = 2 hours 57 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 60 0
ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 3136 3136
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

From this batch, I'd certainly wonder why UAS ended up so high. That's 50 minutes it stayed disconnected.

Since Link time = 1 hours 33 min 3 sec
FEC: 0 84
CRC: 60 3
ES: 45 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

It certainly looks very clean to me. As someone (sorry) said earlier, the SES indicates serious stuff, and is an indicator of a bigger problem, so zero is good.

A zero SES and an ES:CRC ratio close to 1:1 show errors are spread over time, suggesting no individual bursts of interference.

Ideal really, except:

Max: Upstream rate = 13587 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49860 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 11999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 49681 Kbps

[alongside SNR values of 6dB and 7dB respectively]

The distance just limits what speed can be attained. You could give more detail with the "xdslcmd info --pbParams" command, but I probably won't get to see that.

But it certainly appears to be *just* distance, and not interference of any sort.

BTW: Upstream sync of 12Mbps is equivalent to an 11.6Mbps IP profile. Upload speeds (on a tester) probably ought to top out at 9.8Mbps.

You can probably gain 10% of upstream throughput (for the same upstream sync speed) by turning off QoS - which you can now do in the unlocked modem.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

they not useless just remember FEC and CRC are backwards.

I know I *ought* to be able to transpose the figures in the GUI, but I can never seem to remember at the time

If CRC is very close to the ES count and SES is 0 then I would say nothing at all to worry about on line errors.

Agreed, so long as the number doesn't increase at too fast a rate. We just don't know where the threshold is (yet).

As a comparison on a lower bitrate adsl connection some years ago I used to average 30k or so crc errors a day on fast path.

My old line could sustain 8Mbps (ADSL1) at 10 CRC errors per hour without interleaving. When running ADSL2+ it gets to 14Mbps with interleaving, but the FEC mount up at an astonishing rate. Millions.

Since Link time = 6 days 3 hours 8 min 5 sec
FEC: 0 3017
CRC: 12116 247
ES: 1858 218
SES: 16 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

This hasnt been enough to trigger DLM and if it wasnt for these modem stats I would have been unaware of errors as my line has seemed fine whenever I have used it. No speed loss, packet loss etc.

It's good to see those numbers, as it gives us a feel for what DLM will let through unhindered. I hope I remember those numbers after Christmas...

Thanks for the reply and detailed analysis. Much of that was a bit above my head.

I am not likely going to be able to use the modem much more than a few hours as i'm having problems with it. Posted a bit about it here. http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/t/4191131...

I will try again another time but will leave it until the weekend.

I was thinking how would I approach PN with this if my speeds or other issues were a problem, using them stats? Would they even do something to sort it based on them stats?

Well have to see how it goes.

Thanks. You have more errors than mine but then you were connected for 6 days.

yeah your error rate is much better than mine, here is after another day with no new crc burst.

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 1234 0
ES: 309 30
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 7 days 1 hours 29 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 3309
CRC: 13324 273
ES: 2159 244
SES: 16 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

my normal error rate has increased somewhat, earlier days I was averaging 300 a day.

but this gives an idea how ow it really is.

Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 4 0
ES: 4 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0

in 15 minutes which is 900 seconds, only 4 seconds had an error. 309 errored seconds in a day that has 86400 seconds I am averaging now 4:1 ratio on crc to errored seconds, and all seems fine. I think the crc error rate has to be quite high in bursts to be noticeable, I suspect the 16 SES I have had if I was using it during those 16 seconds I would have noticed something but I wasnt.

As this post was deleted unnecessarily and because of some bad adverts on a link I posted am reposting it. No link for now. I hope it was not PN that complained to get this removed. It was a fair review. I won't hesitate to post this review on another website if that was the case. Thankfully I have a copy in word as I typed it on there. Sorry for any bad spelling. You should be able to understand it.

Well after a hard decision, I decided to join plusnet. I really didn�t want to put up with BT�s useless Indian call centres and their vague terms and conditions. Now this has much praise but also has some criticism and thinks PN could improve in some places. You have to take the rough with the smooth, so no PN fan boys please.

Sign Up. Sign up was easy enough but the ordering a BT engineer system should be scrapped. I selected the 13th and it was an afternoon appointment. That was the earliest I could select. I was concerned about the number of people saying how, BT opeanreach failed to turn up. That worried me a bit as I hoped that it would not happen to me. So I called plusnet up about midweek and asked them to confirm the appointment I made on the 13th. Was told that the appointment was booked for the 14th. I did ask why I was not told and was explained that the appointments are not guaranteed. It takes 24Hours to go through and no guarantee. I said it was totally pointless ask customers to select a date if this is the case and should be down to the isp anyway. The adviser agreed.

Anyway the next day I received a call from matt PN to confirm date, which I thought was good of him. Wasn�t expecting it. We had a chat about the installation dates BT wires and some other things. It was a nice friendly chat.

The day. Well the day for my installation came and thankfully the BT openreach bloke turned up. It all went on time and smoothly. I was chatting with the engineer about speeds and profiles, he informed me that his paperwork and equipment said I was on 20/40. I said that�s not right but just said, that�s what he has on his job sheet.

After install. It took a few hours but I did have some trouble connecting. I was told to put the standard phone cable in the modem. I thought that was wrong. Anyway called plusnet and the first adviser was not much help. He did not seem to know what to do. It was suggested to reset the router. I did and connected the red cable. After a bit of time it worked. I called back about the 20/40 profile thing at it was confirmed, that I was on the wrong profile fibre service. Was told that someone had mess my order up and I was on fibre value what is 20/40, not extra as I ordered. I don�t know how they did that. As It was the end of the week, I was told it won�t be until Monday I was regraded to 20/80 and extra fibre. No wonder I had slow speeds and my speed test confirmed I was on 20/40 as well. I did some P2P tests before and after. Will post on the other thread about it.

Anyway On Monday morning a member of plusnet phoned me, to confirm that I am now on 20/80 extra fibre. I thought that was nice of PN to do that. Something I was not expecting.

I will post about some other things in separate posts and questions later. Other than that wrong order mess up I think I am quite happy and went well overall.

Thanks to matt and the other PN member, for calling me about the related issues, things. J

I did this.

*20/40 was ment to be 40/10 and 20/80 was ment to be 80/20, as discussed.

Edited by deleted (Tue 25-Dec-12 11:38:38)

Wasn't us. We welcome this sort of feedback so we can fix problems.

I'm glad to hear it. Must of been only them adverts then on that link, as seb said.

Thanks for the reply kelly and on christmas day as well.


Just say, if anyone can find a cache copy about, please send me a PM with it. Google seems to have lost it's cache links.

Edited by deleted (Tue 25-Dec-12 21:53:56)

In reply to a post by superspeed:

I hope it was not PN that complained to get this removed.

I'd be surprised if they can do that on here, but they certainly remove things on sites under their direct control. Fair enough if it's offensive, but companies that do this with genuine complaints just "shoot themselves in the foot" as far as I can see.

Posts are only removed from the Plusnet Forums if they clearly break the Forum Rules and more to the point they are not removed by the staff but by the moderators who are not staff but are customers.
Any suggestions otherwise are totally wrong

Yes, the forums seem a very odd set up; but Plusnet have a system they used to cal tickets, but now, just to confuse everyone, call "questions". And they don't like you asking questions on that site.

That is also incorrect.
It is preferred to raise tickets or questions as this gives full tracking but they have no problem with customers raising problems on the forums and in fact have a dedicated team (who are much more technically with it and have a higher permissions level within Plusnet) on the Forums to sort out difficult problems
In fact, where a ticket doesn't seem to be solving the problem the forums are the ideal next route
You may not realise it but I am a Moderator on the Plusnet Forums so know exactly what goes on

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

That is also incorrect.

Oldjim, having established I wasn't "incorrect" the first time, I thought you'd reply more thoughtfully this time.

Please read what I typed and reply accordingly, rather than jump to conclusions.

I was not attacking the forum, just saying the set up was a bit odd IMO.

I can only type as I see things. If Plusnet chose to "hide" public opinion in multiple "forums/messaging systems" then prospective customers should be aware of this.

I am fully aware of your attempts to assist customers, but as you say yourself you are not staff and therefore I assume (I may be incorrect in this) have no control over what Plusnet do.

Your opinion is noted
However Plusnet do not hide public opinion in this or any other forum.
The ticket or contact system can never be open and public because the information included is confidential to the customers and this is the same for all ISP's
In relation to the forums - they have one official forum but do monitor others including this one and also have a presence on Twitter
Would you like to explain how Plusnet or indeed any other ISP can stop posters using other forums to discuss their experience as this seems to be the only way they can not "hide" public opinion in multiple forums as suggested in your post

I have proof they do hide public opinion.

"Tickets" can and have been made public, as Plusnet refused to deal with them privately.

Yes, Companies have the ability to block users - I quote from Facebook as an example. :-

"if you keep posting as you are we'll have to remove your posting access to our page."

I just realised who is posting - this thread brought it back http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1102...
I will not bother responding again

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

I will not bother responding again

Rather highlights my point.

Yes that topic does prove the point that you can be a pain in the posterior. It's was locked by the moderator when it got to the 6th page - only on page four did the several people who were trying to help actually manage to figure out what he thought your issue was - a dropping connection (although Plusnet posted his connection graph showing a continuous 15 day connection. Apparently when the connection drops it causes you an issue that your IP may change - but the product you are on is very clearly specified as not having the option for a fixed IP.

There's a previous topic about this non-issue going round in circles and getting absolutely nowhere.

The last time any member of Plusnet staff directly interfered with postings on the Plusnet Community forums was October 2008 which kicked off quite a debate and an apology for overstepping the mark: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,6969...

Since then everybody has been clear that if Plusnet want something changed they ask the moderators to do it. Only in extreme circumstances (for example someone posting a link to child pornography) would Plusnet staff step in and make changes themselves.

In reply to a post by jelv:

There's a previous topic about this non-issue going round in circles and getting absolutely nowhere.

Because no one reads what is typed! The topics have been locked because they are full of trolls.

I'm not going to repeat the stupid situation that is on another forum. If you want to discuss this you should start another post or take this to PM or email. It has nothing to do with the OP.

In reply to a post by hk11:

Yes, the forums seem a very odd set up; ...
now, just to confuse everyone, call "questions".

Agreed. No idea why the change from 'tickets' was made - seems to be common nomenclature for all sorts of other firms, though sometimes a 'support ticket' really isn't that, but a 'question', so I can see both options...

In reply to a post by ultra:

Agreed. No idea why the change from 'tickets' was made - seems to be common nomenclature for all sorts of other firms, though sometimes a 'support ticket' really isn't that, but a 'question', so I can see both options...

Perhaps it's so that if you say "I want to leave. Give me my MAC please." they can say "Sorry, that wasn't a question!".

I expect it's the same, now well-spread mindset throughout the net, that nowadays labels your account with them "My Account" when it isn't. In the context of a supplier's website, it is "Your account".

Or ...

... in the case of Plusnet, maybe most "Tickets" are not about problems, (wow!), but really are questions.

Just to make it more confusing, we still call them tickets internally, but the drop down box we select when we want to pull one up is called "questions".

Oh well!

Edited by deleted (Thu 27-Dec-12 16:57:05)

Whoever instigated the change needs questioning, and possibly ticking off. Ticketing off would be a bit over-drastic .