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It rather annoying to see other isp such as ICUK, Zen and BT all getting 75/19 on 80/20 FTTC. Plusnet is always stay at 72/18 on 80/20 FTTC. Are Plusnet limit the cap at 72/18? Because if three other isp's are 75/19 surely Plusnet should be the same on 75/19 for 80/20 FTTC. I know it only 3Meg difference but it always nice to have that extra 3Meg on it.
Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Mar-14 14:26:57)
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And your IP profile as reported by BT Wholesale is? And as reported by PlusNet is?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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BTw IP Profile are 77.42Mb and Plusnet IP Profile are 77.4Mb
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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You're making comparisons based on numbers with no context. At those speeds even a slight difference in setup, computer, router, cabling etc could cause a dip getting 72Mbs on a 77.4Mb profile really isn't bad.
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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I don't believe in that Chris. If I did go with BT or Zen, I will getting 75/19 easy. As the IP Profile is always reduced by at least below 2Mb for throughput but reduced by 5Mb is a bit too much by Plusnet side. But, there is nothing I can do about it and just carry on with it and stick with 72/18 for the next 18 months until I can changing to different ISP (maybe).
Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Mar-14 14:56:33)
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Are you basing this just speed test results. or are you uploading stuff , multiple files using a FTP client and downloading using a download manager that alows upto 10 streams per file , try downloading test files or something from a cyber locker using a premium account for a real test of thoughput,
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Your profile on our side is 77.4Mb, that is the only speed profile applied.
I have to ask, but what impact is this actually causing and how can you be certain of the speeds you'd get with another provider?
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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Your profile on our side is 77.4Mb, that is the only speed profile applied.
If that in case, I should be getting around 75.4Mb throughput as my real download transfer rate are 8.7MB/sec for 1GB file
Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Mar-14 15:10:15)
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Why should you get that speed? Yes your profile is 77.4Mbs, but there are overheads, then there's the performance of the system your testing on, the router you're using etc.
I've *definitely* seen speedtest.net results from Plusnet customers over 74/75Mbps which would indicate that it's possible on our service.
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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I've *definitely* seen speedtest.net results from Plusnet customers over 74/75Mbps which would indicate that it's possible on our service.
What router is that come with? My best mate is on Plusnet FTTC. His IP Profile is 77.44Mb and Plusnet IP is 78Mb. He only getting the same as me on 72/17.
Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Mar-14 15:20:33)
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I have no idea. I'm also not going to go searching over the forums for them. Realistically is this causing any issues in any shape of form with your connection?
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The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
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Chris I did try cable fibre router, Netgear Fibre router and BT Home Hub 5 all the same result 72/17 with windows 7, windows 8.1 and linux mint 16. So, how on earth other plusnet user manage to get 75/19?
Do I need to tweak MTU on the router?
Edited by adslmax (Fri 21-Mar-14 15:23:36)
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Not fibre, but my parents switched to Plusnet recently (from another 21CN ISP) - nothing was changed in the setup, but the throughput relative to the sync is consistently down at least 5% compared to before. It's not a plusnet profile mismatch. Even on a lower sync the throughput was a bit faster with the previous ISP.
Someone else here asked me for assistance with their move, the plusnet profile was low and I had to tell them how to request a change. It was kindly and swiftly changed but their speed test is still down about 8% compared like-for-like with BT and again nothing was changed in the setup. They are on the edge of having breathing space for movie streaming and browsing, so it does make a difference.
I haven't yet taken this up with Plusnet. I wondered if an artificially high or unlimited profile could be applied temporarily for testing/elimination purposes out of peak times?
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I've *definitely* seen speedtest.net results from Plusnet customers over 74/75Mbps which would indicate that it's possible on our service.
My best mate is on Plusnet FTTC
No way you've got close friends..
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Cough and I've seen some speed testers (not speedtest.net) report a speed 20% over and above my sync speed on FTTC.
Have seen ookla report marginally high due to the nature of the rejection algorithm they use.
Its Friday or I'd pull the data up in excel for ours, which shows a nice clean edge for the fastest speeds, but browser/flash version even PC can all make a difference. Its only once you get enough tests to see the patterns emerge and even then difficult to tell due to all the other variables
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I would have thought your daughter would be quite happy with the speeds you mention, after all you gave her your FTTC connection not long ago.
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the plusnet profile system I have found rate limits to a bit below the BT rate, even tho the cap is set at same amount the tcp throughput is lower.
Also I have found if not on pro, the traffic management seems to like to keep a part of the line idle.
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That's normal for a QOS system. You can't give priority if you don't reserve some bandwidth.
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Correct. They have to be slightly slower than the hard limit BT place on the connection. If the traffic rate were to exceed BT's limit, packets would be blindly limited/delayed/dropped (aka policed) at BT's equipment before being forwarded down the line to your modem, which would undo any traffic shaping/prioritisation they applied previously to those packets.
They probably limit to 95-97% of the BT profile but only PlusNet would be able to tell you for sure.
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Chris - I see many speed tests from many ISPs, and I checked re this specific issue not long ago.
The maximum speed test result for Plusnet on full 80 Mbps sync is definitely lower than that for BT/Sky/Zen. The difference is much greater than the slight drop you impose through the IP Profile copy being a fraction lower than the BT Wholesale one. IIRC it is 74.nn Mbps.
It is not a good idea to ask (paraphrasing) "So what, can you tell the difference?" First, the answer from some people, the really heavy downloaders of which I do not think adslmax is one, would be yes! Second - it does matter if the maximum on Plusnet, for whatever reason, is lower than on other ISPs. If Plusnet aren't (or weren't) aware of it, they need to be, and to see if it is fixable. Denial is not an option. Acceptance, plus a "that's how it is at our prices", is.
Is it perhaps simply the DPI system not being able to do its job and still manage to output at over 75Mbps? Or - what is the highest possible throughput per connection on a PN gateway?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Fri 21-Mar-14 22:36:09)
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How long does it normally take BT openreach engineer's to carry out a lift & shift at exchanges ? is it usually completed within a few hrs or does it take several working days ?
Should be an easy one
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Don't tell me you are thinking of migrating away from Plusnet already?   
plusnet user
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No I ain't migrating away from Plusnet. I stay with them.
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Not a clue, sorry. What has that got to do with this thread?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Edited by RobertoS (Fri 21-Mar-14 23:56:39)
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Well it may have some bearing , but it doesn't matter,
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I've had 74-75&18-19Mb depends on what speed tester you're using.
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I've had 74-75&18-19Mb depends on what speed tester you're using.
What speedtester did u use?
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IIRC I've had 74-75 on the BT speedtest and 18-19 up on OOKLA ... depends on when you test of course.
Edited by Spud2003 (Sat 22-Mar-14 01:55:32)
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BT Speedtest result below:
http://s5.postimg.org/6bcwzd15z/BTw.jpg
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 03:30:47)
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Your profile on our side is 77.4Mb, that is the only speed profile applied.
I have to say here that I agree with max - he is spot on.
I have experienced exactly this slowdown when my profile is set to 77.4. However, I did *not* experience the slowdown when I was (for a time) allocated to the fake "unlimited" profile (the value was, IIRC, 20Mbps - and was used by the original FTTC triallists before Plusnet put in place real profiles).
It seems that the profile of 77.4 restricts throughput slightly more than it says.
What speedtester am I using that allows me to see this?
Simple - the Samknows white box. Nine tests per day, at a time when it can see no other activity going on.
When I first swapped to 80/20 speeds (early 2012), I was on the 20M profile, and the Samknows box reported speeds of 74-75Mbps for near 6 months. This stopped when Plusnet had an unfortunate week when it restricted everybody to 38Mbps; on return to "normal", the results are noticeably lower at 71-72Mbps.
Samknows stores results from 2 years ago, so I can still see the effect. Just.
I've reported it before on the forum, but never got a response.
I also saw, and reported, the same effect on the 40Mbps service (with 38.7 profile). Same result - no interest.
It is almost like staff don't want to believe it...
Of course, this question might explain why:
I have to ask, but what impact is this actually causing?
No impact whatsoever, to me. It's embarrassing even mentioning it.
But if it suggests that lower profile settings are also set slightly low, you might be having an impact to someone where it does matter.
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Yes, I remember the "20 Mbps" unlimited profile saga and had assumed that was all history. It just might be worth Plusnet experimenting a bit with adslmax's profile to see if it makes a difference, not so much for his benefit but for theirs. Mine was set to 99 for a while when they were playing around a couple of years ago.
Kevin
plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 70000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST |
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I have to say here that I agree with max - he is spot on.
Many thanks. I was right afterall. I remember when I was on ADSL2+ my sync rate was 18499k and BT IP is 16.32Mb and PN IP is 16.3Mb but throughput is 15.3Mb (1 Meg less) but interesting if PN IP is 17.3Mb I would get throughput speed of 15.9Mb (an extra of 600K on it)
But, FTTC - BT IP 77.42Mb, PN IP 77.4Mb Throughput is 72Mb (should be around 75Mb) but losing 5Meg is far too much. I be interesting what other Plusnet users have to say about this as I believe that Plusnet is limit the speed cap where it shouldn't be.
I be very interesting what the speed throughput are like if the PN IP move 3Mb ahead of BT IP. Eg: BT IP 77.42Mb and PN IP at 80Mb and the throughput speed probably around 75Mb.
Thanks WWWombat. There is nothing I can do about it but I do feel that five Meg knocked off is bit unfair by Plusnet end. I leave the rest to Plusnet customers to have a say on this.
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 10:15:27)
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Small percentage difference and some people are never happy!
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
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This is a known effect
I am on ADSL but that isn't relevant
I did a series of tests with the help of Plusnet where the Plusnet profile was set correctly and where it was set above the BT IP profile
This thread discusses http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1140...
and this is the technical explanation http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1140...
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This is a known effect
I am on ADSL but that isn't relevant
I did a series of tests with the help of Plusnet where the Plusnet profile was set correctly and where it was set above the BT IP profile
This thread discusses http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1140...
and this is the technical explanation http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,1140...
Then WHY isn't Plusnet supplier do something about it?
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Small percentage difference and some people are never happy!
That's what we paid for! It's the ISP's reponsible to put things right if we have a say on it.
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Hi
I think while there is an argument to be had as to does it matter to an individual to get slightly less than might be expected or available via another ISP, it is worth raising the question.
Companies get caught for selling short all the time, pubs that consistently serve up less than a full pint, food sold by weight that always averages less than the stated weight, petrol stations with petrol pumps measuring in the companies favour and so on. Whilst to an individual the deception is insignificant and often un-noticed, overall the company stands to profit from it. Trading standards have laws to investigate and prosecute when these things happen.
Or put another way, if someone takes 1p from all our bank accounts, individually who cares, but over millions of customers someone makes a huge amount of money from the deception. It will be those people making a fuss over 1p that cause the bank/police to investigate.
Obviously broadband is a very difficult product to police in this way and most people fall short of getting anywhere near the advertised rates anyway, and I'm not suggesting for one minute PlusNet are doing anything deliberately to reduce maximum rates, but the question about what appears to be a cap on the maximum rate is certainly valid to ask.
Regards
Phil
Edited by deleted (Sat 22-Mar-14 12:26:50)
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The definition of "right" is not clear cut in this instance.
Kevin
plusnet Unlimited Fibre - sync approx 70000/20000 at 450m - BQM
Using OpenDNS
Domains and web hosting with TSOHOST |
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BT Openreach Engineer who had installed my fibre last month 13th February 2014 and he say my line is full sync at 79999K/19999K and he checking speedtest via BTWholesale and result come back saying BT IP Profile 77.42Mb and throughput of 72.87Mb and the engineer say to me "this isn't right, should be around 75Mb" but he say to me it probably down to Plusnet limit your line speed capped at no more than 72Mb. He was very surprise of that capped at 72Mb throughput. He tested it with his tool kit and via laptop.
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 12:39:58)
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I thought that the plusnet IP profile always started out at 78mbps ? i also thought that the max BT ip profile on the 80/20 product was 77.44 although it's not a lot out yours is 77.42 if your syncing at the max rate then why your BT ip is a little lower, is a bit weird, Did you get higher thoughput when your plusnet IP profile was 78mbps?
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I was first at 78Mb at plusnet ip profile last month but later it changed itself to 77.4Mb to match BT IP profile at 77.42Mb.
77.42Mb is abit strange from sync rate at 79999k (I agree it should be 77.44Mb)
I just had email alert of BTW Checker had changed again below:
Changed:
- FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 79.9 20 19.9 -- Available
- FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 71.3 20 17.9 -- Available
... into:
+ FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 77 20 19.9 -- Available
+ FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 67.3 20 17.9 -- Available
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Do you get higher speeds when your plusnet ip profile was set to 78mbps than you do now , or has the throughput speed not changed since your service started ?
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Do you get higher speeds when your plusnet ip profile was set to 78mbps than you do now , or has the throughput speed not changed since your service started ?
It always at 72Mb since it first installed of service. Engineer say I should be getting around 75Mb max out of exchange IP capped at 77Mb. I believe Plusnet capped my throughput speed of 5Mb less.
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 14:14:39)
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I just spoken to the tech support at Plusnet and they push my PN IP Profile at 78Mb and I am now getting 2Meg extra of throughput speed on 74Meg instead of 72Meg on BTw speed throughput. Proof here below :
I hope my PN IP Profile staying at 78Mb. Strange BTw IP profile also increase from 77.42Mb to 77.44Mb now after Plusnet adjusted PN IP from 77.4Mb to 78Mb. That's rather weirdo. But BT IP does matched my sync rate correct at 79999K now.
BTw speedtest showed IP of 77.44Mb but pleased with throughput of 74Meg now.
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?action=dla...
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 16:05:02)
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That must be a relief
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That must be a relief
Yes. I hate the PN IP Profile sometimes is wrong and didn't push BTw profile.
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Small percentage difference and some people are never happy!
Remember that this small percentage difference can be added to another difference. I was on Entanet and used to get up to 60Mbits down. When this dropped to 35 I left them as basically I was getting the "up to" argument and being told that they were unable to do anything about it.
With Plusnet I am getting 50Mbit down, but admittedly the up speed HAS increased considerably. After several calls and an engineer visit it has been put down to a bad bit of wire somewhere between the cabinet and myself. The engineer when it was first connected told me after his test that I ought to get full speed. 450M from cabinet.
My Plusnet Profile says
Estimated line speed:
59Mb (Download speed could vary depending on line conditions. Estimates are the maximum speeds that your phone line can support. These speeds are dependent on the package you choose.) - Checked on 2013-12-31 12:55:36
Current line speed:
51.2 Mb
Should I believe the Engineer, What I know it achieved in the past (06/2012), the estimated speed or my actual connection speed.
The system we have of Openreach/BT and ISPs means that it very easy for the blame to be placed else where. The way our speeds are advertised does not help, but there has been recent comment I think from OFCOM suggesting that if they say an estimate of 59 then it should be very close to what you actually get.
Having said all that I am currently very please with my connection and service, I just know it could be better.
http://speedtest.net/result/2459383290.png
Solar Results
Nov 143, Dec 125, Jan 77, Feb 174, Mar 210, April 384, May 450,
June 485, July 512, Aug 433,
Max Day 25.2
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@ philippercival - I start to worrying now because last month BT estimated was 80/20, then changed to 79.9/19, then changed again to 77/19 and if BT kept doing this with more speed degradation in future then I will complaint to OFCOM, Watchdog because BT are misleading us with the incorrect speed advertised as I expected estimated of 79.9/19 not 77/19. I will be annoying if it come down to 57/16 on the BT Checker Availabiltiy. I hate the worse thing is signed 18 months contract with 79.9/19 then 6 months later it might be 57/16 etc. Do u think it fair? I think NOT!
It's rather seem unfair. But, likewise that BT for us.
Edited by adslmax (Sat 22-Mar-14 19:22:04)
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Having read through most of this thread I'll just add my own experience of Plusnet this last 3 months having come from cable.
I have a PN linespeed of 77.4 from memory the BT profile was the same when I checked it. My cabinet is physically 300 metes away on the same side of the road but the pole is the other side so I'd guess at 350m+ line length. My SamKnows shows maximums of 73/19 but that is the daily average. There are some days where it is a bit down on that but never as far down as the maximum I saw on my 60Mbps cable. I suffered high levels of congestion on cable with some days showing a daily average down in the low 30s. Ironically there was evidence of improvement in the cable congestion in the final week befor my switch to FTC was completed.
I don't understand how the PN shaping/QoS gets implemented or if indeed it does result in a marginally slower top rate than it would have with none but I will say that I can have a heavy multithread HTTP (I don't use NNTP or P2P) download running and still browse without noticing any difference from when there is no download running.
I can't compare with BT who are more expensive and bundle services I have no interest in such as BT Sport but my connection now is far far superior to what I was getting on cable.
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And again in English please?
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"as I expected estimated of 79.9/19 not 77/19. I will be annoying if it come down to 57/16 on the BT Checker Availabiltiy."
Estimated is exactly what it says "on the tin".
Granted if it goes down to 70 or less then by all means start complaining but an estimate of 79 but actually getting 77 is really of no consequence.
There are other PN users that need the technical support bods to work on their badly performing connections and not be distracted by a 3% difference on a good connection!
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
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I don't think adslmax got it!
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
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A 5Mb drop in speeds and adslmax is on the phone to Trading Standards, Ofcom, Openreach, heck probably even the police!
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I think all adslmax wanted to know is whether it's normal for Plusnet fibre users to see a few meg less speed on their 80 meg product than on other providers. The answers on this thread appears to be yes.
Oliver.
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Without being provocative - I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, and what result you hope to achieve.
Throughput figures which are very near to the profile figures seem fine, allowing for variables, and given that you have a phenomenal throughput figure compared, I would think, to most TBB users, I'm not sure what your issue is - really!
Many, many people in the country have to live with figures never even reaching what you claim is your loss! Some people, I assume, feel the need to moan - especially if, in their perception, they are hard done by.
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I think the jury is still out on this one:
Estimated line speed:
There's no speed estimate currently held on your account.
Current line speed:
92 Mb
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13955...
Do we have any other providers that are getting the full 80/20 to compare?
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Do u think it fair? I think NOT!
I think I've got more important things to worry about in my life than the speed of my broadband connection. And I also think some others haven't.
Thought for the day.
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Do we have any other providers that are getting the full 80/20 to compare?
Would be useful, yeah. If a BT infinity user getting the full 80 meg is reading this thread then a BT Wholesale speed test result would help.
Oliver.
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I think I've got more important things to worry about in my life than the speed of my broadband connection. And I also think some others haven't.
And you post that on a forum full of people who are interested/obsessive about broadband?
Oliver.
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And you post that on a forum full of people who are interested/obsessive about broadband?
For obsessive don't you mean "have OCD", reference speeds, latency, congestion etc., etc?
(I would love to know what job the OP has, seeing as in previous threads he states that he "works" from home. What "job" allows you to monitor your broadband connection 24/7?)
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For obsessive don't you mean "have OCD"
Oh that's good, now we have a doctor on this thread.
Oliver.
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indeed,
the way I noticed was 2 things.
1 - when I migrated from BT retail, lost 1-2mbit of throughput (cant remember exact amount) even tho I was on the same sync speed and IP profile.
2 - when I started the ipv6 trial, the profiles arent automated as far as I am aware and as a result I had a profile that was too high (in terms of plusnet) so in affect only had the BTw ip profile limiting meaning when I started the ipv6 trial my speeds went up.
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I think I've got more important things to worry about in my life than the speed of my broadband connection. And I also think some others haven't.
And you post that on a forum full of people who are interested/obsessive about broadband?
It would appear that way, wouldn't it? His rant about going to Ofcom if his sync speed drops 3 mbits is just laughable. Especially on a connection that is 75-80mbits anyway. That's not even a 10% drop. Further more, the speed "as advertised" (by the ISP) is up to 76mbits. Which is what he has. Not to mention other factors (cross talk) that may lower sync speed further over time.
Out with any of this, Zen who I'm looking at moving to next month clearly state in their small print regarding garunteed speed that, for a 80/20 service, they will provide a minimum speed of 40mbits or 70% of line speed, for at most 90% of the busiest 3 hours of the day (which ever is less). So if I'm signing up to that, I accept that I may not get my full throughput speed 100% of the time.
I just don't get some people on here when it comes to speed tests. It's like they pay peanuts and expect to run a speed test every 10 minutes with it to come back at full speed 100% of the time. These people will be doing the same thing on a gigabit FTTP link if they had one, and would then complain if their speed test reported a 1% drop in what it should be. Seriously, give me a break.
Ok, in this instance, it looks to be something to do with Plusnet traffic shaping, and the reasons for that have been explained by several people elsewhere on this thread (including myself). But the OP knew Plusnet traffic shaped before signing up, did he not?
</end of rant>
Edited by deleted (Mon 24-Mar-14 08:17:13)
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Say what you like about adslmax but one thing he can do is start a thread that runs and runs.
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Don't knock the PHD! Some people just don't advertise.
Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
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Copied from the Plusnet forum.
Are you only measuring the speeds using speedtests? This unfortunately is slightly flawed. We've spent a lot of time ensuring we get the profiling correct and there are a lot of reasons for that.
First, the reason we have the profile is two-fold, first the spec of the product we buy from BTW means that we are supposed to apply a profile on our side to ensure that the we don't send a customer more data than they can receive. In the event of a DDoS attack for example someone could be sent several hundred Mbps or even several Gbps of traffic, without a profile our side that would head down the BTW network and hit the BRAS which in the most severe event could have a knock on effect to 10s of thousands of people on that BRAS.
BTW send us regular updates when speed profiles change so we can keep our side up to date, so knowing we have to do something we want to be clever and smart about it. We take the BTW profile and round down to the nearest 100kbps or 200kbps depending on whether you're on ADSL or fibre.
The second reason and one of the big differences Plusnet has over most other ISPs is the way we do our traffic management. The Plusnet profile is a scheduler or a shaper. That means that when the amount of traffic being downloaded is greater than or equal to the profile rate we will buffer the traffic. Without the profile or if the profile was set above the BTW profile the traffic would hit the BTW profile limit which is a policer. The difference is that this would cause packet loss or retransmissions.
The trouble with speedtests is that they will see the few ms that the download is in the buffer as a slow down in the download rate which it doesn't take into account.
Try out a download or look at the utilisation in the interface. Whenever we've tested this out we've always seen that the actual throughput coming down the wire is faster than the speedtest reports and in testing in the labs this was the behaviour we saw.
The third reason for the Plusnet profile is that we can use it to prioritise one type of traffic over another when you max out the line. If you're watching a video and making a VoIP call and download via P2P all at the same time you shouldn't see problems with the video or the VoIP but instead see the P2P max out at whatever bandwidth is going spare rather than try and swamp the other 2 protocols.
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Are you actually trying to say that TCP overheads mean that there is more data travelling over the connection than if you just measure how long to transfer a 100 MB file?
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In the labs what we saw was that when you started the download, the download speed at the start would try and go faster than your line could support but the way that we manage the traffic means that any data that can't go down the line immediately goes in the buffer and gets a minor delay added to it.
A 100MB file should take virtually the same amount of time to download on a Plusnet line as any other ISP of the same sync speed but the buffering might mean slightly less data travels over a Plusnet connection to transfer said file because you might see a couple less packets if there's any retransmits on the line without the buffering.
It's just a slight behaviour difference but as I say this is what we saw with a lot of testing on the values to use with our profiling to get the best experience. In some cases speedtest results gave slightly lower results but the actual data transferred and the time taken was no different.
Looking on the network the shape of the graph was kind of like this:
/\________
|..............\
And when we moved the the buffer we saw.
___________
|...............|
Same amount of data, same amount of time but a different pattern.
I've always wondered how the speedtest sees the buffer emptying at the end.
There's some good stuff over on Google about improving TCP transfers:
http://googlecode.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/lets-make-t...
The way we do it might reduce the number of round trips because it could reduce the number of retransmissions.
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I don't get it
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But Dave...
Have you read my post above?
I can see a clear 3Mbps difference in speeds, between the fake 20M profile and the proper 77.4M profile (both PN profiles)... with an 80Mbps sync speed (and 77.4 BT profile) in both cases.
The *only* difference is the two PN profile values.
Does that mean your 77.4M profile is deliberately de-rated, so that the traffic management prioritisation (of, say, voip) can function? That I lose 3Mbps all the time, just in case I max out the line occasionally?
(To those who think this search for 3 Mbps is obsessive, you're wrong. I don't notice nor care that it is missing, but I do care that PN's system might be wrong. It seems to be a systemic problem).
Edit:
Last time I had the 20M profile was a while ago, when my account placed restrictions on the throughput some of the day. If you want to try some experiments with my line, I'm game to try that, with results measured on the SamKnows box.
Edited by deleted (Tue 25-Mar-14 01:50:19)
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It's just a slight behaviour difference but as I say this is what we saw with a lot of testing on the values to use with our profiling to get the best experience. In some cases speedtest results gave slightly lower results but the actual data transferred and the time taken was no different.
What I'd see was that the measured throughput was better when the PN 20M profile was set, rather than the PN 77.4M profile.
Doesn't that suggest that the 77.4 profile doesn't give the best possible experience?
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Happy to stick you on a higher profile and see what happens, PM me your username and I'll change it.
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Two WBC operators
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/images/providerb.jpg
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/images/providera.jpg
So which is which (both have some customers with tests on FTTP, which I have not excluded, as was a quick plot before doing some deeper analysis)
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Sorry, is it possible to overlay them on the same graph (the scale is a bit different between the two)? Thanks
I am assuming A is BT Retail and B is Plusnet.
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I think provider B is Pepsi. Sorry, Plusnet.
You probably shouldn't have mentioned the FTTP part; the extra gap at the start of graph A tells you it is a provider with a measurable FTTP presence, and there's only one ISP who actively sells that service!
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This thread reminds me of a story from the good old US of A.
Allegedly a seriously upset woman dialled 911, asked for the police and proceeded to complain that the staff at a local Mcdonalds drive through had not included the bottle of orange juice she had paid for in her order 
Edit: My speed recently dropped from 70 to 68.8Mbps, I wonder if I should contact my local MP, or perhaps Scotland Yard?
Plusnet - Unlimited Fibre - No trees were harmed in writing this post. Several electrons were, however, mildly inconvenienced. |
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Allegedly a seriously upset woman dialled 911, asked for the police and proceeded to complain that the staff at a local Mcdonalds drive through had not included the bottle of orange juice she had paid for in her order
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1oqGUc9zmI
Oliver.
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There are other tell tales which if you look at product pricing become more obvious too
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Just to add this into the mix again:
My Plusnet Line Speed is 92Mbps, but I am able to exceed this on all speed test sites by 2-2.5Mb.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13957...
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he confirmed what I said, they have 100-200kbs drop.
I said I noticed 1-2mbit loss of throughput even with a plusnet profile reporting matched to BT profile. I can only get matched throughput when the plusnet profile is higher than the BT profile.
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Dave I appreciate your explanation, but I think you shouldnt be fiddling with tcp buffering.
TCP is self regulating, it expects to work in a certian way and doesnt expect to be messed with artifically, eg. it may interpret your actions as congestion wrongly. Whilst a tcp connection may very briefly spike at the start as it finds its feet, its hardly a problem, its by design and will self regulate itself.
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But this has caused you problems?
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I dont know, I have had some issues with certian end points not ramping up speeds as expected, but there could be one of many reasons why that occurs, the isp messing with buffering obviously doesnt help when diagnosing such issues.
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I just noticed that my fttc speed had the fastest I ever seen all this week. Used to be 72/17 but now it around 74/19. Have Plusnet / BT added capacity platform to improved the speed this week. Also there is no congestion all this week.
Hat off to plusnet. Quite happy overall.
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will pm you tommorow so you can bump both my test and main account.
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