do plusnet have a problem?

For a few weeks now the speed of my connection have been reduced, and YouTube seems to be on a go slow., i was chatting to someone last night who is also on plusnet and they are having the same problems. I have done a bit of searching, and it seems as if other people are having problems.

i still have my thoughts about the reasons the speed have decreased.

contract end date is coming up, it don't seem that long it was 6 months, the time goes quick.

I will put the other router on tonight to check the sync speed before i blame Plusnet.,

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i still have my thoughts about the reasons the speed have decreased.

Its Friday so I guess you're back believing this is a conspiracy by your ISP to slow your connection. I don't buy it nor do probably most sensible people on this forum but who are we to burst the bubble for you as this thread is likely to go on and on until the next one

I have not noticed anything recently.

When things like this happen I tend to switch off modem/router and disconnect completely for a few hours and then reconnect to force a complete resync and a new IP address assignment. Make sure it is a decent length of time otherwise I find you just get the same IP address back.

Perhaps you are on an overloaded gateway - no guarantee a resync will help as you may be put back on the same gateway but when oddities happen it has always solved for me.

Also worth checking the bottom of Google is recognising you are from the UK. If not forcing a new IP usually solves this also. It can cause Google services to do odd things if the country is not correct.

May also be local congestion especially if the other person you were speaking to is in the same area.

That'll be Apple products for you.

Our community group members report no problems on PN, my own connection has not faltered in many years.

No problems whatsoever for me.

Post deleted by GonePostal

In reply to a post by broadband66:

That'll be Apple products for you.

Not sure what Apple has to do with this, but what ever.

In reply to a post by think26872:

I have not noticed anything recently.

When things like this happen I tend to switch off modem/router and disconnect completely for a few hours and then reconnect to force a complete resync and a new IP address assignment. Make sure it is a decent length of time otherwise I find you just get the same IP address back.

Perhaps you are on an overloaded gateway - no guarantee a resync will help as you may be put back on the same gateway but when oddities happen it has always solved for me.

Also worth checking the bottom of Google is recognising you are from the UK. If not forcing a new IP usually solves this also. It can cause Google services to do odd things if the country is not correct.

May also be local congestion especially if the other person you were speaking to is in the same area.

Thanks for the reply, sorted it now, seems lit it was a configuration problem with my router. I tried my old router and that worked fine, so that proved that Plusnet was not the problem. then I tried my old router using the Wan though the Openreach modem and that worked fine., speed tests was back up to 36 instead of 25-29. Now I have restored the Tp link config using a backup file I done last month and all is well. Thanks for the reply.,

DLM might bite your line decreased speed.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

DLM might bite your line decreased speed.

For some reason, something in the config of my router changed, and I have no idea what, it all seems fine now I restored my settings in the router. Websites seems to be coming up quicker as well.

I admit when I am wrong.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I admit when I am wrong.

Good to hear, so no conspiracy then? I'll remind you next time you start trying to go down that road again, be it related to this type of issue or any other matter

In reply to a post by dect:

Good to hear, so no conspiracy then? I'll remind you next time you start trying to go down that road again, be it related to this type of issue or any other matter

But a couple of people I chat to do seem to have a slower speed since FTTP have passed their house and their providers have been sending them emails to update, it does seem a bit of a coincidence. I would not put it past providers doing it. Just like supermarkets open less checkouts to push people to use selfscans.

I revert to my previous comments

In reply to a post by dect:

I revert to my previous comments

And? You know these things happen. If a company wants people to do things a different way, then they take away or make it more difficult to do things the old way. Government and NHS does it as well.
Take our Doctor surgery, all online now to book an appointment, even if you go down there to book the appointment they will fill in the same form for you online. You certainly know full well that they do this in supermarkets, don't forget i work in one, and I see how things are done., so I would not be surprised if a ISp slow does something to push people to FTTP.

I have been looking around today, while doing other stuff, and prices for FTTC is getting to be more expensive than Fibre. That is when I put my adress in, I am going to put an address in where i know they don't have Openreach fibre and see if it is any difference.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have been looking around today, while doing other stuff, and prices for FTTC is getting to be more expensive than Fibre.

If its an alt net then OR would be stupid to annoy existing users, and lose customers. The issues with VDSL or all DSL products around the globe is well known.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

You know these things happen. If a company wants people to do things a different way, then they take away or make it more difficult to do things the old way. Government and NHS does it as well.
Take our Doctor surgery, all online now to book an appointment, even if you go down there to book the appointment they will fill in the same form for you online. You certainly know full well that they do this in supermarkets, don't forget i work in one, and I see how things are done., so I would not be surprised if a ISp slow does something to push people to FTTP.

I have been looking around today, while doing other stuff, and prices for FTTC is getting to be more expensive than Fibre. That is when I put my adress in, I am going to put an address in where i know they don't have Openreach fibre and see if it is any difference.

Adrian you need to thing more about what you're saying on here as you're not comparing like for like with your conspiracies.

Degrading a broadband service to encourage people to switch to FTTP is simply crazy, its like Cadbury's intentionally making Mars bars taste like [censored] to encourage people to buy Snicker bars instead. Saying supermarkets close tills to encourage people to use self service doesn't degrade the products you are buying it simply changes the purchasing experience.

To add, I revert to my previous comments

I think a case can be made that OR are pushing up the cost of PSTN line rental and and do appear to be actively discouraging the use of copper based services in general. Whether VDSL hybrid fibre broadband only deals remain competitive (or are currently competitive?) with FTTP full fibre broadband only deals is certainly worthy of consideration particularly for a user who only needs downstream speeds of less than 100Mbps, requires a contract of no more than 12 months and is not concerned with keeping PSTN line rental.

However from a technical standpoint if FTTP is available, leaving aside any voice considerations, then a FTTP installation/activation would probably be a good move sooner rather than later if current contractual xDSL/PSTN obligations allow it. If a separate account is created for the FTTP product and the service successfully activated then any copper based product could subsequently be ceased. I think you may agree that would remove any concerns regarding the overall future, particularly stability, of copper based services?

The price lists for Openreach products are public, here's the SOGEA one:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

80/20 has gone up from £204.96 annually in 2019 to £217.08 in 2023, around 6%. 80/20 FTTP in the same time period has gone from £207.36 to £235.44 which is a 14% increase.

ISPs on the Openreach platform can see how sync rates are performing, if they had evidence of the FTTC service being degraded in areas where FTTP was available they would clean up in a lawsuit and Ofcom would destroy Openreach in the process. It's not happening.

Edited by jpm (Sun 14-May-23 19:07:48)

So would you encourage a user to migrate to a SOGEA product rather than a FTTP product if they required, for example, 80/20 and their Plusnet FTTC line rental/broadband contract was about to end?

No, FTTP is always the best choice wherever it's available

Especially in my case where the D-Side UG copper is probably more than 50 years old. Currently I have no lingering concerns about that since recently having FTTP installed

The way I look at it is that you are going to have to make the move at some point, why not do it at your own pace rather than waiting as late as possible and trying to get a service installed when the rest of the country is trying to make the same change. I've had the last three weeks of a BT contract running alongside Lit Fibre and it's made things like porting the landline number out to VoIP so much easier than trying to cut things across all at once.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

If its an alt net then OR would be stupid to annoy existing users, and lose customers. The issues with VDSL or all DSL products around the globe is well known.

If what is an Altnet?

I have had a look at some providers and the price of the FTTC is the same even if I put in a postcode that have FTTP or one that don't, so as far as I can see they are not increasing the price of FTTC where FTTP is not available. This is only providers that use openreach networks.

In reply to a post by dect:

Adrian you need to thing more about what you're saying on here as you're not comparing like for like with your conspiracies.

Degrading a broadband service to encourage people to switch to FTTP is simply crazy, its like Cadbury's intentionally making Mars bars taste like [censored] to encourage people to buy Snicker bars instead. Saying supermarkets close tills to encourage people to use self service doesn't degrade the products you are buying it simply changes the purchasing experience.

To add, I revert to my previous comments

Cadburys don't make mars or snickers. Mars bars tase slightly better than Cadburys, but only slightly, still rubbish
Are you really that green that you can't see what companies are capable of doing? Closing normal checkouts is degrading the service, supermarkets will say it is the way people want to shop these days, but it is a load bull.

In reply to a post by jpm:

The way I look at it is that you are going to have to make the move at some point, why not do it at your own pace rather than waiting as late as possible and trying to get a service installed when the rest of the country is trying to make the same change. I've had the last three weeks of a BT contract running alongside Lit Fibre and it's made things like porting the landline number out to VoIP so much easier than trying to cut things across all at once.

I have to make up my mind pretty quickly as my contract is up at the end of next month. As I said above, providers seems to be giving better offers for FTTP than with FTTC, so pricewise making FTTP cheaper, but the majority have a 24 month contract, and it seems like 24-month contracts are starting to come to FTTC as well.

looking at some of the price comparison sites, it seems as if Shell has the cheapest 36Mb/s FTTC price at £22, 18 month contract.

you say we are going to have to make the move at some point, but it could be a while yet, while we do have openreach laying Fibre around here, we are not told how far they have got, so we could be another couple of years at least before the turn-off happens.

I don't really want to pay almost £30 a month for broadband to be honest.

As you take everything so literally I will do the same to show how infuriating you are.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Are you really that green

I am not green but more of a brownie colour 🤣

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

looking at some of the price comparison sites, it seems as if Shell has the cheapest 36Mb/s FTTC price at £22, 18 month contract.

Now try reading some experiences of Shell customers, and you'll find out why.

Shell currently tops the Ofcom complaints league table, having managed to exceed even Talktalk:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/04/ofcom-...

And they've held that spot for at least a year:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/ofcom-...
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/10/ofcom-...
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/01/shell-...

Are you really so poor that you'd subject yourself to this for the sake of £3 per month?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I have to make up my mind pretty quickly as my contract is up at the end of next month. As I said above, providers seems to be giving better offers for FTTP than with FTTC, so pricewise making FTTP cheaper, but the majority have a 24 month contract, and it seems like 24-month contracts are starting to come to FTTC as well.

...we are going to have to make the move at some point, but it could be a while yet, while we do have openreach laying Fibre around here, we are not told how far they have got, so we could be another couple of years at least before the turn-off happens.

I don't really want to pay almost £30 a month for broadband to be honest.

Have you decided against having zzoomm 150Mbps FTTP on a 12 month contract for less than £30 per month if available? I know you mentioned them previously and don't need that speed; or would you rather re-contract with PN FTTC and stay on the OR network rather than cease and/or migrate the xDSL service? The later option of staying with PN, at this stage and on balance, does seem to perhaps be the least troublesome choice.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Now try reading some experiences of Shell customers, and you'll find out why.

Shell currently tops the Ofcom complaints league table, having managed to exceed even Talktalk:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/04/ofcom-...

And they've held that spot for at least a year:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/07/ofcom-...
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/10/ofcom-...
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/01/shell-...

Are you really so poor that you'd subject yourself to this for the sake of £3 per month?

My brother have been with Shell for a while now, last week he recontracted £21 for 36Mb/s, which is a good price, he was thinking of going elsewhere and go for social tariff as he is retired, but Shell did him a good deal and as he said I don't have to go up to change things over. The only bad part is the router and that is not bad in itself, just an ugly big box.

As for being poor for the sake of 3 months, I could if I really wanted to pay more for broadband, I could go to 1Gbit if I wanted to. TBH I don't really want to pay for broadband at all, no more than I want to pay for gas or electric, but it is something we need these days.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Have you decided against having zzoomm 150Mbps FTTP on a 12 month contract for less than £30 per month if available? I know you mentioned them previously and don't need that speed; or would you rather re-contract with PN FTTC and stay on the OR network rather than cease and/or migrate the xDSL service? The later option of staying with PN, at this stage and on balance, does seem to perhaps be the least troublesome choice.

Only slightly less than £30 a month zzoomm is, okay the first 3 months is £19. I am going to phone Plusnet tomorrow and see what they can offer, but chatting to someone last night who did the same thing a couple of days ago, is seems as if plusnet is not really moving much from what is on their site in the offers. Trying to push people to FTTP and higher prices on FTTC.

If I went for Zzoomm, I would get it installed a couple of weeks before my plusnet contract is up and then get rid of plusnet at the end of my contract.

Staying with FTTC is always going to be less hassle, even if I moved to another provider, as I just put the new details into the router.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

As for being poor for the sake of 3 months, I could if I really wanted to pay more for broadband, I could go to 1Gbit if I wanted to. TBH I don't really want to pay for broadband at all, no more than I want to pay for gas or electric, but it is something we need these days.

The point I was trying to make was, if you go with Shell then at best you'll save a few quid; but if you're unlucky you'll get into a world of pain, especially if broadband is "something you need" as you say. If you're prepared to take that risk, then fine. Ofcom publish these figures precisely so you can make this sort of judgement. Ofcom doesn't require CPs to provide a good service, it lets the market sort that out.

If you're really trying to cut costs to the bone, you could try tethering off a mobile phone, or a fixed 4G/5G router in the loft, with an unlimited data plan.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

If you're really trying to cut costs to the bone, you could try tethering off a mobile phone, or a fixed 4G/5G router in the loft, with an unlimited data plan.

He's already said he can afford it even able to pay for a 1 Gbps service, its more about not wanting to pay for anything as someone down his pub/street said why should he.

Edited by deleted (Tue 16-May-23 08:29:33)

I prefer self scan checkouts.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am going to phone Plusnet tomorrow and see what they can offer...

Good luck, hopefully PN retentions/sales will offer you something acceptable.

In reply to a post by dect:

He's already said he can afford it even able to pay for a 1 Gbps service, its more about not wanting to pay for anything as someone down his pub/street said why should he.

you are such a nit, I would put something stronger, but this is a public forum. I know I have to pay for broadband., Broadband is a thing that we need these days, because everything is online. I started on dial up, when it was more of a fun thing and to get information, it was not a glorified advertising platform, which is what the internet is these days, like everything else it has become commercialised.
I would have stayed with ADSL if it was a good enough speed here, but 3Mb/s if I was lucky is not good these days. That is the reason why I went to a wireless network as they offered 10Mb/s, but it was a fair bit more in cost even then.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Good luck, hopefully PN retentions/sales will offer you something acceptable.

I just phoned them now instead of tomorrow and he seemed more interested in getting me to Fibre, none of the offers were any better than what I can see online, so really a waste of a phone call, but at least I now know.

I said i did not want a 24-month contract and he would not budge on that, his reason is because of the cost of installation, but as I said to him, if I am going to go through the hassle of having FTTP installed, then I may as well go to Zzoomm which has a better network than openreach, only a couple of quid per month more expensive, have 150Mb/s up and down, so faster than what he offered and a 12-month contract.

He came up with the rubbish about copper lines going in 2025, which is a load of cobblers, they are not going in 2025, but i could not be bothered to argue.
The phone line was awful, you would have a thought a large company like Bt, whose main business is telecommunications, would be able to sort that out.

so tomorrow i will have another look around,

You are spending more time posting about this and phoning people than the value of time is going to save you each month on a broadband service.

I will say again, if you want a short contract then there are FTTP ISPs that will give you that, but you then have to pay for the installation. Your opinion is that ISPs covering £137.74 of install charges and then £290.74 for the year of service (80Mbps on the Openreach network) should be charging you less than £30 a month for it and let you walk away after 12 months - do the sums, they don't work out.

I'm sorry to hear that the Plusnet agent was unable (or not willing?) to offer you a satisfactory deal. It looks like you may be edging toward seriously considering a zzoomm FTTP installation and ceasing the xDSL and landline.

If you do go with zzoomm or another FTTP provider on a 12 months contract at a reasonable price and have no need for a PSTN voice service then hopefully things will work out OK...

In reply to a post by jpm:

You are spending more time posting about this and phoning people than the value of time is going to save you each month on a broadband service.

Er? I only phoned one ISP and that was the one i am with now. not sure what you are on about time saved.

I will say again, if you want a short contract then there are FTTP ISPs that will give you that, but you then have to pay for the installation. Your opinion is that ISPs covering £137.74 of install charges and then £290.74 for the year of service (80Mbps on the Openreach network) should be charging you less than £30 a month for it and let you walk away after 12 months - do the sums, they don't work out.

I am not bothered about having FTTP, I thought I have made that clear before, if plusnet offered a good price on FTTC on even a 18-month contract I would not be looking at another provider. But they have stuck the price of FTTC on a 18 month contract close to FTTP, in fact they have put FTTC at a higher price than the 76Mb.s FTTP package.
They offered me 145Mb/S FTTp for £28.99 on a 24 month deal or FTTC for the same price on a 24 month deal. no installation to pay for FTTC, it is already installed, up and running.
openreach is now pulling the strings, it is Openreach that are telling the ISPs what to do.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I'm sorry to hear that the Plusnet agent was unable (or not willing?) to offer you a satisfactory deal. It looks like you may be edging toward seriously considering a zzoomm FTTP installation and ceasing the xDSL and landline.

If you do go with zzoomm or another FTTP provider on a 12 months contract at a reasonable price and have no need for a PSTN voice service then hopefully things will work out OK...

I have no need for voice, and even if I went for Plusnet FTTP I would lose that anyway. Zzoomm is £19.99 for the first 3 months and then £29.99 a month for 150/150, 12 months contract. they did have a better deal with the 6 months free, but it was a 24-month contract, i prefer the smaller contract if I went with them.
The thing is, all ISPs seem to have gone away from the cheaper end of the market, they seem to be pushing people towards FTTP, cheapest seems to be shell for FTTC, even now broadband seems to have gone up. I realise costs have gone for these providers., but I also think that openreach is pulling the strings and making these providers give a better offer with FTTP.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by 4M2:

I'm sorry to hear that the Plusnet agent was unable (or not willing?) to offer you a satisfactory deal. It looks like you may be edging toward seriously considering a zzoomm FTTP installation and ceasing the xDSL and landline.

If you do go with zzoomm or another FTTP provider on a 12 months contract at a reasonable price and have no need for a PSTN voice service then hopefully things will work out OK...

I have no need for voice, and even if I went for Plusnet FTTP I would lose that anyway. Zzoomm is £19.99 for the first 3 months and then £29.99 a month for 150/150, 12 months contract. they did have a better deal with the 6 months free, but it was a 24-month contract, i prefer the smaller contract if I went with them.
The thing is, all ISPs seem to have gone away from the cheaper end of the market, they seem to be pushing people towards FTTP, cheapest seems to be shell for FTTC, even now broadband seems to have gone up. I realise costs have gone for these providers., but I also think that openreach is pulling the strings and making these providers give a better offer with FTTP.

Do you have even the vaguest inkling how the telecommunications market is regulated, how OfCOM works or how business works?

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Do you have even the vaguest inkling how the telecommunications market is regulated, how OfCOM works or how business works?

You're asking that question to a guy who works in the warehouse of a supermarket.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Do you have even the vaguest inkling how the telecommunications market is regulated, how OfCOM works or how business works?

Yes, I do,

And yes i know Ofcom also want us to go to fibre, they are still not telling ISP s how much to charge and to charge more for FTC than FTTP.

Edited by zyborg47 (Wed 17-May-23 08:51:12)

In reply to a post by dect:

You're asking that question to a guy who works in the warehouse of a supermarket.

Wow, how superior you are?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Do you have even the vaguest inkling how the telecommunications market is regulated, how OfCOM works or how business works?

Yes, I do,

And yes i know Ofcom also want us to go to fibre, they are still not telling ISP s how much to charge and to charge more for FTC than FTTP.

From your answer and despite your protestations it is fairly clear that you have a one-sided view with no real understanding of how business works, what the drivers are, what responsibilities fall to those directing publicly quoted businesses and how it affects the business decisions in order to discharge those responsibilities to the owners of the business.

Perhaps you could explain why you expect businesses to encourage their customers to stay on FTTC at a cheaper price when it is financially more attractive to a business to move those customers to FTTP with cheaper infrastructure costs (even allowing for the amortisation of the construction costs), cheaper running costs and cheaper maintenance costs.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

From your answer and despite your protestations it is fairly clear that you have a one-sided view with no real understanding of how business works, what the drivers are, what responsibilities fall to those directing publicly quoted businesses and how it affects the business decisions in order to discharge those responsibilities to the owners of the business.

Perhaps you could explain why you expect businesses to encourage their customers to stay on FTTC at a cheaper price when it is financially more attractive to a business to move those customers to FTTP with cheaper infrastructure costs (even allowing for the amortisation of the construction costs), cheaper running costs and cheaper maintenance costs.

I understand why they are doing it, and I realise that FTTP is cheaper to run. But then they should not be surprised if some customers who don't want to change go for a different provider.
the person i chatted to at plusnet said he could not offer me anything better on the FTTC package, and yet was a bit agitated when I said I would go to a provider who could do a better deal instead. he just went on about FTTP after i told him I did not want FTTP. so they are willing to lose a customer that have been with them for a few years.

FTTP is cheaper for providers because Openreach is making it cheaper for the providers, FTTC is there and if other providers can do it it at a better price, why can't Plusnet?

This is like supermarkets lowing their prices for people with loyalty cards, so people will get loyalty card,. Can't get people to change, so we will do something to make them think they are getting something better out of changing.

openreach like other fibre providers are realising that a lot of people don;t want to change as they are fine with they have, so now they are using underhand tatics by increasing the price of the older technology.

the problem is most over providers are pushing FTTp as well, the only one I see that are doing a good deal on FTTc is shell and Onestream. I still have at least 3 weeks to make up my mind what I am going to do, maybe plusnet will give me a better offer, but I am not holding my breath.


As I have said before I have nothing against FTTP, if it was already installed I would use it, but I just the hassle of having it installed and maybe cancelled appointments and that sort of thing.

It is clearly unfair that OpenReach might offer a better technology for a lower price. What are they thinking of

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

how superior you are?

Just stating a fact, your anti establishment mindset is sadly holding you back, you have proved that time after time. Even saying what I have I still think you are an extremely genuine guy

Edited by deleted (Wed 17-May-23 22:29:13)

Why am I not surprised this thread has gone from a simple question down the road to Big Brother land 🤣🤣🤣

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I understand why they are doing it, and I realise that FTTP is cheaper to run. But then they should not be surprised if some customers who don't want to change go for a different provider.
the person i chatted to at plusnet said he could not offer me anything better on the FTTC package, and yet was a bit agitated when I said I would go to a provider who could do a better deal instead. he just went on about FTTP after i told him I did not want FTTP. so they are willing to lose a customer that have been with them for a few years.

FTTP is cheaper for providers because Openreach is making it cheaper for the providers, FTTC is there and if other providers can do it it at a better price, why can't Plusnet?

This is like supermarkets lowing their prices for people with loyalty cards, so people will get loyalty card,. Can't get people to change, so we will do something to make them think they are getting something better out of changing.

openreach like other fibre providers are realising that a lot of people don;t want to change as they are fine with they have, so now they are using underhand tatics by increasing the price of the older technology.

the problem is most over providers are pushing FTTp as well, the only one I see that are doing a good deal on FTTc is shell and Onestream. I still have at least 3 weeks to make up my mind what I am going to do, maybe plusnet will give me a better offer, but I am not holding my breath.


As I have said before I have nothing against FTTP, if it was already installed I would use it, but I just the hassle of having it installed and maybe cancelled appointments and that sort of thing.

I agree as FTTP are a mess - Openreach installation are nightmare worse than FTTC & G.fast installation without any issues.

If FTTP are available to me, I will REJECTED it. Stay with FTTC 80/20 as it more than enough for me but I do honest wish Openreach removed capped 79999/19999 to uncapped one so the line can go faster as my maximum line rate is 87945/27679 would be nice to have 87/27 rather than 79/19.

Edited by adslmax (Wed 17-May-23 12:39:35)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I agree as FTTP are a mess - Openreach installation are nightmare

You are aligning with Adrian on this matter, that says a lot.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I agree as FTTP are a mess - Openreach installation are nightmare worse than FTTC & G.fast installation without any issues.

When I was talking to my FTTP installer a few ago his biggest concern was the chance of a blocked underground duct. Fortunately the duct to my property was not blocked and he was able to feed the fibre cable from the street through to the CSP without any issues. Basically the installation went very well and in my case certainly not a mess nor a nightmare!

If the duct had been seriously blocked then there would have been a delay before a full installation could have been completed. He would have done interior work, i.e. fitting the ONT, during the initial visit and exterior work could have been done later without the need to enter the property.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I agree as FTTP are a mess - Openreach installation are nightmare worse than FTTC & G.fast installation without any issues.

When I was talking to my FTTP installer a few ago his biggest concern was the chance of a blocked underground duct. Fortunately the duct to my property was not blocked and he was able to feed the fibre cable from the street through to the CSP without any issues. Basically the installation went very well and in my case certainly not a mess nor a nightmare!

If the duct had been seriously blocked then there would have been a delay before a full installation could have been completed. He would have done interior work, i.e. fitting the ONT, during the initial visit and exterior work could have been done later without the need to enter the property.

Chance is you might get underground duct block at anytime. Its will take month to clear it up. That's why FTTP can get block anytime. Too risky

The underground duct also has the original BT copper pairs running through it. I guess those could be or could have been at a risk of a difficult repair also?

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 17-May-23 14:56:05)

FTTP get more block than the copper line

Well maybe electrons don't mind a sharp kink but photons do

What are you talking about

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

FTTP is cheaper for providers because Openreach is making it cheaper for the providers

I wouldn't want facts to spoil a good argument, but the pricing of 40/10 FTTC and FTTP is set by OFCOM, not Openreach.

The regulated pricing for 40/10 FTTP is actually £1.96+VAT per month *more* expensive than for FTTC. OFCOM allows this to reflect the increased value of FTTP to the customer (e.g. higher reliability, and stable line speeds which are not distance related)

References:
* FTTP pricing: 40/10 £193.04 per year, 80/20 £242.28 per year (in fact 115/20 is the same)
* FTTC (SOGEA) pricing: 40/10 £169.44 per year, 80/20 £238.80 per year

Therefore, if the ISPs are pushing FTTP, it's not because of the raw price but the indirect cost savings (fewer support calls, fewer complaints about low speeds, fewer engineer visits). Also, once someone is on FTTP it becomes easier to upsell higher speeds, which are much more profitable.

There are also the Equinox 1/2 offers, but that primarily affects the less regulated pricing of the higher speeds.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

FTTP get more block than the copper line

Do you understand what a blocked duct actually means as your post makes zero sense.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

. . . so they are willing to lose a customer that have been with them for a few years. . .

And the rationale behind retaining a customer who is a high-cost option or losing the customer and saving the costs is flawed? Once again you reinforce the point that you do not understand business although no doubt the bubble in which you and your mates down the pub or across the street exist will see you as one of the informed gurus of this world.

"would be nice to have 87/27 rather than 79/19. "

And how does your web browsing and sending of emails benefit from the very small increase in speed?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I am going to phone Plusnet tomorrow and see what they can offer...

Good luck, hopefully PN retentions/sales will offer you something acceptable.

Sorry to break the chain of conversation but your last comment , was it in jest? I ask because our wonderful govt are wanting to remove CASH and replace with a PROGRAMMABLE digital version of it, the EU is also doing this This will require a digital ID system facial recognition and ZERO privacy , This IMO can NEVER end well for us , coupled with the 15min neighbourhoods like Oxford bath and Cambridge aka LTN's, This is not conspiracy Look it up on the govt website there is a consultation ongoing right now CBDC

Post deleted by GonePostal

In reply to a post by dect:

Just stating a fact, your anti establishment mindset is sadly holding you back, you have proved that time after time. Even saying what I have I still think you are an extremely genuine guy

Really? umm. the way you said, it was as if he only works in a warehouse, so he is nothing. A few years ago one of our cleaners and I were chatting about something, and he came up with what do I know I am only a cleaner, talking about himself and I replied, but you are important, you are still part of the cog. Plenty of people working in supermarkets that have been to university and have degrees. I am a qualified pastry chef, but after years of doing it, could not cope with the stress, I thought working in a supermarket would be less stressful, umm.

Anti-establishment? If you say so, more that I don't like being pushed into things, or maybe I don't like following the sheep. I will change if I want to change and if it suits me.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I wouldn't want facts to spoil a good argument, but the pricing of 40/10 FTTC and FTTP is set by OFCOM, not Openreach.

The regulated pricing for 40/10 FTTP is actually £1.96+VAT per month *more* expensive than for FTTC. OFCOM allows this to reflect the increased value of FTTP to the customer (e.g. higher reliability, and stable line speeds which are not distance related)

References:
* FTTP pricing: 40/10 £193.04 per year, 80/20 £242.28 per year (in fact 115/20 is the same)
* FTTC (SOGEA) pricing: 40/10 £169.44 per year, 80/20 £238.80 per year

Therefore, if the ISPs are pushing FTTP, it's not because of the raw price but the indirect cost savings (fewer support calls, fewer complaints about low speeds, fewer engineer visits). Also, once someone is on FTTP it becomes easier to upsell higher speeds, which are much more profitable.

There are also the Equinox 1/2 offers, but that primarily affects the less regulated pricing of the higher speeds.

I thought Ofcom set a minimum price? Ofcom is a waste of time anyway.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

And the rationale behind retaining a customer who is a high-cost option or losing the customer and saving the costs is flawed? Once again you reinforce the point that you do not understand business although no doubt the bubble in which you and your mates down the pub or across the street exist will see you as one of the informed gurus of this world.

Money is money in this day and age and with one million people cancelling broadband, I thought they would want to keep customers. If they were not making another money at all from me staying on FTTC, then I would understand, but they must be making a bit of a profit from me.

Seems like Plusnet want to keep me as a customer as they have asked me to private message them, not really worth it as I doubt they will move on the issue.

Funny you say about being down the pub, I was there yesterday and talking to some friends and they are on Talk Talk at the moment out of contract, they were going to phone them up to see if they could get a better deal, but I said to look at Zzoomm instead. According to Talk talk we don't have openreach FTTP. So today they are going to order Zzoomm. and when it is installed will cancel Talk Talk. As for people across the street, I don't talk to them, I talk to one of my next door neighbours and one a couple of doors down.

I almost talked myself into getting Zzoomm yesterday when talking about it.

I believe Ofcom set a minimum on some products so that OpenReach can't undercut and drive out competition (at least that was their goal). I don't think it covers all products as some products are considered to already have a competitive market and therefore don't need regulation.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Sorry to break the chain of conversation but your last comment , was it in jest? I ask because our wonderful govt are wanting to remove CASH and replace with a PROGRAMMABLE digital version of it, the EU is also doing this This will require a digital ID system facial recognition and ZERO privacy , This IMO can NEVER end well for us , coupled with the 15min neighbourhoods like Oxford bath and Cambridge aka LTN's, This is not conspiracy Look it up on the govt website there is a consultation ongoing right now CBDC

Not sure what this has to do with broadband. I have seen this before, I doubt it will happen for many years if at all, a lot of people already pay by card anyway, I use Cash when I can., but sometimes I get a funny look for some reason as if it is a crime to use cash.

the 15 minute thing i have not really taken much notice off, so not sure what it is about.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I wouldn't want facts to spoil a good argument, but the pricing of 40/10 FTTC and FTTP is set by OFCOM, not Openreach.

The regulated pricing for 40/10 FTTP is actually £1.96+VAT per month *more* expensive than for FTTC. OFCOM allows this to reflect the increased value of FTTP to the customer (e.g. higher reliability, and stable line speeds which are not distance related)

References:
* FTTP pricing: 40/10 £193.04 per year, 80/20 £242.28 per year (in fact 115/20 is the same)
* FTTC (SOGEA) pricing: 40/10 £169.44 per year, 80/20 £238.80 per year

Therefore, if the ISPs are pushing FTTP, it's not because of the raw price but the indirect cost savings (fewer support calls, fewer complaints about low speeds, fewer engineer visits). Also, once someone is on FTTP it becomes easier to upsell higher speeds, which are much more profitable.

There are also the Equinox 1/2 offers, but that primarily affects the less regulated pricing of the higher speeds.

I thought Ofcom set a minimum price? Ofcom is a waste of time anyway.

It's both a minimum and a maximum. Openreach can neither charge below nor above that for the regulated 40/10 services.

Clearly they can't sell below that price for higher speeds either, or that would allow them to circumvent the minimum price.

The point is, Openreach do charge more for FTTP than FTTC.

Of course, Openreach and Plusnet are both owned by BT Group. Hence you could argue Plusnet enticing customers over to FTTP could relate more to overall BT Group priorities, than what Plusnet might do if it were independent. But there are plenty of non-BT Group ISPs you can choose - and I don't think many of those will still be pushing legacy connections in areas where FTTP is available.

Wasn't there some Government inducement to ISPs a while back encouraging the takeup of fibre? And even if there was, what's all the fuss about?

At contract renewal PN offered me a two-year FTTP deal for slightly less than I had been happily paying for FTTC, doubling my speed which had always been adequate for our needs. I would hope they can recover their installation costs ... half my working life in self-employment taught me that like any business I needed to make a profit or I would go hungry at the end of each month.

As to a two-year contract, do I really want the hassle (and sometimes problems) of changing ISP every year? No thanks.

Have you seen the announcement that Now Broadband (I believe they were on your shortlist) are increasing their prices by £3.50 from July

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It's both a minimum and a maximum. Openreach can neither charge below nor above that for the regulated 40/10 services.

Clearly they can't sell below that price for higher speeds either, or that would allow them to circumvent the minimum price.

The point is, Openreach do charge more for FTTP than FTTC.

Of course, Openreach and Plusnet are both owned by BT Group. Hence you could argue Plusnet enticing customers over to FTTP could relate more to overall BT Group priorities, than what Plusnet might do if it were independent. But there are plenty of non-BT Group ISPs you can choose - and I don't think many of those will still be pushing legacy connections in areas where FTTP is available.

I don't want them pushing anything to be honest, I phone plusnet up to see if they could do a better price than what is being offered by them online. sure, tell me about FTTP and the price, the problem was that is all he went on about, I took the conversion back to FTTc and while he did tell me the price of it, he went back to FTTP.

I know who owns Plusnet, when I decided to go onto FTTC from the wireless service i was using, I had my doubts about Plusnet because they belong to BT, but they were at the time the only ones at a decent price who were able to connect me up pretty quick.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Wasn't there some Government inducement to ISPs a while back encouraging the takeup of fibre? And even if there was, what's all the fuss about?

I don't know.

At contract renewal PN offered me a two-year FTTP deal for slightly less than I had been happily paying for FTTC, doubling my speed which had always been adequate for our needs. I would hope they can recover their installation costs ... half my working life in self-employment taught me that like any business I needed to make a profit or I would go hungry at the end of each month.

As to a two-year contract, do I really want the hassle (and sometimes problems) of changing ISP every year? No thanks.

Other providers offer a 12 month contract on FTTP, so they must think they will get their money back, maybe they hope people will like their service and stay with them after 12months. You forget that with the way inflation is at the moment you will have the price rise twice and you will not be able to do anything about it, at least with a 18 month contract, you only get it once and can try and get a deal after the 18 months. Plusnet is even doing 24 months contract on FTTC, how long before others follow? I can still go for a 18 month contract or 12 months, but I pay more for doing so, which don't make sense as the set-up is already done, no set up costs as I have had FTT|C for 7 years, I think. They don't even have to send me a new router, as I have my own
you say you are doubling your speed with FTTP, then you must be on a 74Mb/s package. I am fine with the 36Mb/s i have got, i have said that before I have no need for anything faster and I really don't want the hassle of changing as FTTc works and is already installed, nobody tramping around drilling holes in walls, fitting in a system that may not work. i have seen where people have had problems with FTTP,

In reply to a post by dect:

Have you seen the announcement that Now Broadband (I believe they were on your shortlist) are increasing their prices by £3.50 from July

i took that off my list anyway as I saw the prices before the announcement, Shell and onestream are the only ones on my list for FTTC now, onestream does a 12 month contract for £21.95 for 36Mb/s. I need to do a bit of digging to see what they are like