BT Infinity?

Hi guys,

I have seen adverts for BT Infinity lately and like the looks of it.

Now I live in the north of Scotland, where there is no fibre optic broadband, infact my exchange:

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NSLOS

Only has ADSL Max, no 21CN or ADSL+2, with the my max speed around 7mb's

I was wondering if BT will be laying fibre optic cables further up Scotland in the future? I e-mailed BT and was told that they do not have dates for my area, but were hoping to get 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012. Would this be possible, getting that amount of homes fibre optic by 2012?

Steve

I e-mailed BT and was told that they do not have dates for my area, but were hoping to get 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012. Would this be possible, getting that amount of homes fibre optic by 2012?

First of all, when BT uses the term 'fibre-optic line' it does not mean a fibre-optic line in a sense a normal user or business would use this term. For BT, it usually refers to a FTTC (fibre to the cabinet), with the final stretch from the cabinet (which can be quite far away) to the premise still being the old copper line (we all know copper is BTs Holy Grail).

Also, there is no way that BT will get even close to their announced coverage of the FTTC. And there will be hardly any genuine FTTP around for many years to come. BTs Infinity product is based upon yesterday's technology, it has severe limitations, and IMHO is hopelessly overpriced, just do a search on the Think Broadband forums on 'BT Infinity' to see why.

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Apr-10 16:58:08)

I see what you are saying, but I live in an area where 8mb broadband is the only option right now and no LLU services, so the best I can hope for is BT Infinity... i presume anyway?

Steve

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

I e-mailed BT and was told that they do not have dates for my area, but were hoping to get 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012. Would this be possible, getting that amount of homes fibre optic by 2012?

First of all, when BT uses the term 'fibre-optic line' it does not mean a fibre-optic line in a sense a normal user or business would use this term. For BT, it usually refers to a FTTC (fibre to the cabinet), with the final stretch from the cabinet (which can be quite far away) to the premise still being the old copper line (we all know copper is BTs Holy Grail).

Also, there is no way that BT will get even close to their announced coverage of the FTTC. And there will be hardly any genuine FTTP around for many years to come. BTs Infinity product is based upon yesterday's technology, it has severe limitations, and IMHO is hopelessly overpriced, just do a search on the Think Broadband forums on 'BT Infinity' to see why.

When BT say fibre they also mean their fibre linking exchanges and businesses all over the UK and the rest of the world.

I would expect fttc to follow the same sort of path that the initial adsl rollout followed.

From memory Openreach were looking to have 50% of population covered by the Olympics. I have a feeling that demand is stronger than expected and wouldn't be surprised to see that figure passed well before the Olympics.

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

.... 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012.....

How many homes are there in say London, Birmingham and Manchester compared to the whole of Scotland? A percentage figure of UK homes is pretty meaningless.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

.... 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012.....

How many homes are there in say London, Birmingham and Manchester compared to the whole of Scotland? A percentage figure of UK homes is pretty meaningless.

Yeah I undertand that. But really I was wondering if they would be able to fit fibre optic cables all the way up Scotland??? Right now I think they only go as far as the Glasgow/Edinburgh, whereas I'm closer to Inverness further north. Not sure if it is even possible to get fibre optic cables up that far?

Steve

Apart frrom considerations such as conservation etc areas, it's possible to push fibre almost anywhere. Even then, there are ways and means.
The limiting factor is purely return on investment over a reasonable time. Don't forget that BT, like Virgin and others, is a private company.

I thought the main reason Virgin don't have fibre optics further up Britain is because of money, whereas I would think that BT has more money and probably more Government funding to introduce fibre optic broadband around Britain?

Steve

I understand BT aim to have FTTC/FTTP based services available to 10 million homes by 2012.
I suppect the 94% figure relates to the availability of WBC (BT Wholesale service sold to ISP's) by 2012. WBC in itself does not provide FTTC/FTTP

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

I thought the main reason Virgin don't have fibre optics further up Britain is because of money.....

Which is exactly what I said.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

I thought the main reason Virgin don't have fibre optics further up Britain is because of money.....

Which is exactly what I said.

I know, but I was just stating that I presumed BT had more money available and Government funding to make fibre optic more widely available, which is what my whole comment stated.
Steve

The Government will invite firms to tender for Regional Development money so it could be BT, Virgin, Thales etc. who get government contracts to provide fttc to unviable areas.

Although the whole RDA shebang is in turmoil at the moment due to the election and the dropping of the 50p telephone tax.

Any RDA funding is completely separate to Openreach's current fttc programme which is market driven.

Any RDA funding is completely separate to Openreach's current fttc programme which is market driven.

You are assuming that BT is a market-driven enterprise. In all too many cases, this is not the case. There is a lot of unfulfilled market demand for genuine telecom services, and many businesses or end-users are also willing to pay, yet it is BT who lacks vision and long-term business plans. BT is much more short-termed oriented, driven by its share holders.

As usual, Jeurgen, you are simply spouting rubbish.

Here is a list of exchanges that will be enabled for Infinity in the next 9 months.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/products/nga/downloa...

Openreach's FTTC rollout is probably one of the biggest market driven private investments in the country right now.

Hopefully the shareholders will make money and BT will continue to accelerate the pace of the roll-out.

Edited by deleted (Fri 30-Apr-10 17:55:16)

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

In reply to a post by Spikester84:

.... 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012.....

How many homes are there in say London, Birmingham and Manchester compared to the whole of Scotland? A percentage figure of UK homes is pretty meaningless.

Yeah I undertand that. But really I was wondering if they would be able to fit fibre optic cables all the way up Scotland??? Right now I think they only go as far as the Glasgow/Edinburgh, whereas I'm closer to Inverness further north. Not sure if it is even possible to get fibre optic cables up that far?

Steve

You are confused about telecomms networks. Virtually all the 5500 exchanges in the UK are linked by fibre. For broadband it's the local end from the exchange to the home that we are discussing.

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

I e-mailed BT and was told that they do not have dates for my area, but were hoping to get 94% of homes around Britain ready for fibre optic broadband by 2012. Would this be possible, getting that amount of homes fibre optic by 2012?

Also, there is no way that BT will get even close to their announced coverage of the FTTC.

Why is this?

I live in one of the towns that has been so called upgraded. Actually its all hype, they have not done the complete job, just enough to get the "BS" in the stats and then expect the council to give them money to do the rest. This is a fact and the situation is being closely monitored, but we still await to heat the job will be completed. When they get to your town you will find the
same. They only do the densely populated centers that get ADSL2 and if you live in the suburbs and are "Middle class" and hence not likely to pay for "footie" then forget it.

This is how we have seen the demographic roleout.

According to BT:

We're using around £1.5 billion pledged by the BT Group to bring 40% of homes in Britain within reach of Super-fast Fibre Access by 2012, as part of the Next Generation Access initiative.

This is a far cry from a 94% coverage, and hardly any of the 40% will actually use a genuine FTTP technology. Add to this the fact, that most of this targeted coverage is already being served by Virgin today with better services, and this tells you how far behind current standards BT really is.

Edited by deleted (Fri 30-Apr-10 20:55:01)

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

According to BT:

We're using around £1.5 billion pledged by the BT Group to bring 40% of homes in Britain within reach of Super-fast Fibre Access by 2012, as part of the Next Generation Access initiative.

This is a far cry from a 94% coverage, and hardly any of the 40% will actually use a genuine FTTP technology. Add to this the fact, that most of this targeted coverage is already being served by Virgin today with better services, and this tells you how far behind current standards BT really is.

What do you call genuine technology?

BT rollout is where the ISPs want to compete with Virgin.

In reply to a post by tourman:

I live in one of the towns that has been so called upgraded. Actually its all hype, they have not done the complete job, just enough to get the "BS" in the stats and then expect the council to give them money to do the rest. This is a fact and the situation is being closely monitored, but we still await to heat the job will be completed. When they get to your town you will find the
same. They only do the densely populated centers that get ADSL2 and if you live in the suburbs and are "Middle class" and hence not likely to pay for "footie" then forget it.

This is how we have seen the demographic roleout.

Where I live it's roughly a 50/50 split between industrial/urban and rural. Both sectors have been served well by the rollout.

Edited by Deadbeat (Fri 30-Apr-10 23:11:37)

No problem, Jeurgen.

If you are not happy with Openreach's FTTC roll-out, you are free to choose Virgin.

That about sums it up. While I'm not saying that all Virgin media areas are in stabsville by any means, I do suspect that if the welfare state and benefits were stopped tomorrow, within a month both Sky and VM would be bankrupt.

It's good to finally see Virgin Media getting some competition at last in the broadband stakes, even though it's not a really serious, current generation solution or close, just another "it'll do another 20 years" approach, the people on the "slow" VM speeds (like 20Mbps for instance) may now get an ADSL alternative. The people on 50Mbps speeds will probably just wonder why BT are so, so far behind and not intending to even try and catch up.

it is the norm from bt, if you live in an area that has a fast connection speed already then you will get infinity first,the people who who endure 1-3 Mb connections will be last if they get it at all..Then if a newer technology is developed then the areas already with infinity will get upgraded and the rest just have to crawl along. One day my exchange may get 21cn ,but I may be to old and infirm to use it.

One day my exchange may get 21cn ,but I may be to old and infirm to use it.

According to a statement posted by BT_Care not too long ago your exchange should be upgraded to the 21CN this year. But I am certain what BT says on this is not true.

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-May-10 17:38:23)

I have never been able to get any info on upgrades for my exchange.can yuou point me in a direction to find it.

You won't find it anywhere. If http://www.samknows.com/broadband/ doesn't give the 21CN enablement date then you are out of luck. You could ask a BT representative here on this forum but I wouldn't believe them because BT has no published long-term rollout plans. In fact I am certain that by 2012 the digital divide in the UK will have significantly widened.

thanks for the info

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Hopefully the shareholders will make money and BT will continue to accelerate the pace of the roll-out.

FT is reporting that BT are set to announce expansion of the rollout from 40% to 66% coverage.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c723ff52-5a37-11df-acdc-00...

In reply to a post by JNeuhoff:

According to BT:

We're using around £1.5 billion pledged by the BT Group to bring 40% of homes in Britain within reach of Super-fast Fibre Access by 2012, as part of the Next Generation Access initiative.

This is a far cry from a 94% coverage, and hardly any of the 40% will actually use a genuine FTTP technology. Add to this the fact, that most of this targeted coverage is already being served by Virgin today with better services, and this tells you how far behind current standards BT really is.

How much of the population does Virgin reach and what are their plans for expansion of the network to more of the population?
Is theirs a "genuine FTTP technology"? I think you'll find its not. You'll get fibre to the general area and then a coax cable to your house in most instances.

In reply to a post by orly:

Add to this the fact, that most of this targeted coverage is already being served by Virgin today with better services, and this tells you how far behind current standards BT really is.

How much of the population does Virgin reach and what are their plans for expansion of the network to more of the population?
Is theirs a "genuine FTTP technology"? I think you'll find its not. You'll get fibre to the general area and then a coax cable to your house in most instances.

In our area at least there are several Virgin (ex-NTL) cabinets, I believe fed by fibre, on every street.

There is one BT Cabinet serving the lot, 500 metres from my house. There is an NTL one across the road, and another round the corner three houses away, before reaching the first house down that street.

In reply to a post by digiscott:

I have never been able to get any info on upgrades for my exchange.can yuou point me in a direction to find it.

I use www.samknows.com for general information and then call the ISP to confirm planned dates. When I was with O2 they where not certain when my exchange was going LLU as the RFS date kept moving on samknows. I got a little fed up.

Though from seeking an answer to my question I pottered around on forums and now follow the adsl checker on www.btwholesale.com > broadband > resources> adsl checker.

https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/B...

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 4Mbps.


Your exchange is planned to have ADSL2+ by 30th April 2011. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 4Mbps.