Has anyone removed their BT landline?

I have BT FTTP (Smarthub 2) and a copper landline that is being moved to Digital Voice.
I also have a VOIP line that I pay Voipfone £2 a month for. I use a Gigaset N300 to connect the VOIP and landline.
The obvious way forward is to connect the N300 directly to the Digital Voice port of the Smarthub 2 when I am switched over - As it is a PSTN port, I assume this will work?

So effectively N300 connects to SMARTHUB2 via LAN (VOIPFONE line 2) and also PSTN/DIGITAL VOICE (BT provided line 2)

Are there alternative options that I should consider?
I presume that I am not going to save anything by moving the landline number to Voiphone as I would still have to pay line rental (residential) and outgoing call charges would be higher than BT?

Might be worth posing your question again in either the VOIP or FTTP sections instead

BT Digital Voice is not PSTN. It's basically a flavour of VOIP. The physical copper to your house will be redundant. So if it's cheaper to keep the BT DV then that makes sense.

Aren't BT still offering Digital Voice over copper even with their FTTP service? Sorry, I've probably totally misunderstood your post.

In reply to a post by Grimers:

Aren't BT still offering Digital Voice over copper even with their FTTP service? Sorry, I've probably totally misunderstood your post.

No.
Digital Voice is simply BT's marketing name for VOIP.
That would require the copper line to have an active broadband connection or how else would calls be made?

BT offer FTTP with Digital Voice (VOIP) with calls made over the fibre, or FTTP with calls made over a copper landline (PSTN).
They also offer data only FTTP now with no voice at all.

You can also get FTTC from BT with Digital Voice.
Calls are made via VOIP by connecting a telephone to the Hub rather than the master socket.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 14-May-21 22:10:54)

However, the Analog output from the SmartHub2 mimics a PSTN/Copper connection and it should be possible to then connect that into the Gigaset N300.

In reply to a post by MHC:

However, the Analog output from the SmartHub2 mimics a PSTN/Copper connection and it should be possible to then connect that into the Gigaset N300.

You can have FTTP without a copper line at all.

So presumably an upgrade from xDLS or FTTC to an FTTP connection with Digital Voice would ignore the copper line. Not so to do would be a nonsense. It would in fact not be Digital Voice.

The facility you cite can only be there purely for FTTC with DV.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The facility you cite can only be there purely for FTTC with DV.

FTTP with DV

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The facility you cite can only be there purely for FTTC with DV.

FTTP with DV

The Digital Voice on FTTP would not simultaneously provide an analogue output, as it would have no connection at the exchange to the PSTN network. It would only provide an analogue output for "standard" phone. (I think that's what they call it).

You said:

In reply to a post by MHC:

However, the Analog output from the SmartHub2 mimics a PSTN/Copper connection and it should be possible to then connect that into the Gigaset N300.

But that is not the case for the connection under discussion. FTTP with DV. The Hub will not have an analogue output. Or even if it did, it couldn't go anywhere. Unless their is a weird way a user could have BT FTTP with Digital Voice and simultaneously an LLU phone-only connection, with the user communicating on both lines at the same time.

If that is possible, I confess I was unaware of it!

The SmartHub 2 includes a basic ATA that does the VoIP/Digital Voice to analog conversion and presents the output on a standard BT socket. The user then plugs in a standard handset or as BT suggest a DECT base station.

It will only work with BT (and possibly Plusnet in near future) and no other VoIP provider.

I suspect the OP originally had ADSL or FTTC and at some point upgraded to FTTP before DV existed, so either opted to keep their voice service on the original copper, or had to as FVA was not available. BT are now migrating their customers to DV.

Unless this voice service is used for outgoing calls there doesn't seem much point make major changes given that the BT FTTP only prices are pretty much the same as FTTP+DV, and in some cases with special offers FTTP+DV is cheaper, so as the OP originally asked plugging the N300 analog connection into the BT socket on the Superhub 2 is the most straightforward migration.

Also, ISPs still use the PSTN DN as a service identifier porting out the number would likely cease the FTTP service too. Given the combination of migration routes which may be required ISPs seem to have given little thought to the processes required, or maybe they just want to keep the customers voice service to make more money with their excessive call rates or optional call packages.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

I suspect the OP originally had ADSL or FTTC and at some point upgraded to FTTP before DV existed, so either opted to keep their voice service on the original copper, or had to as FVA was not available. BT are now migrating their customers to DV.

Unless this voice service is used for outgoing calls there doesn't seem much point make major changes given that the BT FTTP only prices are pretty much the same as FTTP+DV, and in some cases with special offers FTTP+DV is cheaper, so as the OP originally asked plugging the N300 analog connection into the BT socket on the Superhub 2 is the most straightforward migration.

Also, ISPs still use the PSTN DN as a service identifier porting out the number would likely cease the FTTP service too. Given the combination of migration routes which may be required ISPs seem to have given little thought to the processes required, or maybe they just want to keep the customers voice service to make more money with their excessive call rates or optional call packages.

You and MHC seem to be missing what the OP stated at the beginning!

In reply to a post by spile:

I have BT FTTP (Smarthub 2) and a copper landline that is being moved to Digital Voice
...
As it is a PSTN port ....

They have FTTP and are moving to Digital Voice. Simples. Therefore, no analogue (PSTN) phone service supply in the future.

Both of you are describing how to implement precisely what they have and are moving away from.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 15-May-21 01:05:56)

No, Describing how to connect the OPs analog input of the N300 to the Smarthub2

The phone port is an output it is NOT PSTN. It is specifically labelled "Phone Port for Digital Voice Customers Only"

There will be just a fibre coming in, no copper. The voice is then "Digital Voice" and the SmartHub converts it back to analog and presents it on the port which is what the OP is hoping

I was simply going by the "fact" stated by the OP. A PSTN socket.

Plus this from you:

In reply to a post by MHC:

However, the Analog output from the SmartHub2 mimics a PSTN/Copper connection and it should be possible to then connect that into the Gigaset N300.

That now appears to be either junk, or simply very confusing.

Are you saying the Hub is outputting an analogue phone signal, which is what the N300 currently expects, or on DV will it output a VOIP signal which the N300 presumably can also handle as it can accept three such?

The word "mimic" is one thing that threw me. Surely it is one or the other, not one pretending to be the other. Then of course, both VOIP signals are (I assume) coming down the same connection to the N300 anyway.

It would seem strange to turn a BT digital signal to an analogue one to get to the N300 then change it back to digital to get to the handset! How is the current VOIP service connected to the N300? Why should a second physical connection be required anyway?

Both will be digital coming down the same fibre from Openreach. The existing physical connection should handle both.

Edit: The "phone" socket on the Hub should be redundant. The OP's question surely doesn't arise?

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 15-May-21 02:25:22)

Posting in the early hours has led to huge confusion. You need to reconsider in the cold light of day.

MHC's post at 22:43 states the facts.

The SmartHub 2 includes a basic ATA that does the VoIP/Digital Voice to analog conversion and presents the output on a standard BT socket. The user then plugs in a standard handset or as BT suggest a DECT base station.

It will only work with BT (and possibly Plusnet in near future) and no other VoIP provider.

So the SmartHub2 provides the BT DV VOIP to Analog conversion for FTTP and xDSL services

If you connect a VOIP phone base station to the SmartHUb the BT DV will operate on the "Fixed Line" (i..e. analog) side and if the user has another VOIP service that will function via the ethernet connection to the Lan.

The SmartHub BT socket can only provide an analog phone signal, there can be no conversion back to digital.

The N300 could of course handle both VOIP services but BT in their wisdom will not give out the VOIP registration details for their Digital Voice so it has to come from the SmartHub analog output.

In reply to a post by MHC:

The SmartHub 2 includes a basic ATA that does the VoIP/Digital Voice to analog conversion and presents the output on a standard BT socket. The user then plugs in a standard handset or as BT suggest a DECT base station.

It will only work with BT (and possibly Plusnet in near future) and no other VoIP provider.

As is typical from BT, an ATA inbuilt into their routers cannot be configure to use a 3rd party hosted service, only that from BT although any analogue phone can be used.

On the other hand, if you plugged a VoIP phone into a port of the router, your choice of providers is limitless.

If you have an FTTP service you get just a broadband service, a voice service is an optional extra. It might for a while still utilize the copper pair to your home.

I see it taking decades for redundant copper wires being physically removed.

Bob, think about what you mean by "VoIP signals" in your 2am post. To get an analogue telephone to work with a traditional BT jack there needs to be a digital to analogue conversion. This either happens in the exchange (traditional PSTN) or in an ATA (Analogue Telephone Adaptor). BT Retail have built an ATA into their SmartHub only for their customers, and it actually has a "BT jack" so you can directly attach your old phone handset.

DECT systems can of course attach their base station to this jack. Some more advanced DECT systems also incorporate VoIP ATA technology to use with the likes of SIPgate or A&A.

In this case, the OP will just plug their DECT system into the BT jack on the back of the SmartHub, and in theory the old copper line to their home will be inactivated.

I am however confused as to what the OP has purchased and from whom and what is active on which ports.

I currently pay BT £5.22 pm for 500 free minutes to any UK landline or mobile number and charges from my VOIP provider are much higher than that.

If I can connect the N300P PSTN port to the Digital Voice port of the Smarthub 2 then that would appear to be the ideal solution for me.

In reply to a post by spile:

I currently pay BT £5.22 pm for 500 free minutes to any UK landline or mobile number and charges from my VOIP provider are much higher than that.

If I can connect the N300P PSTN port to the Digital Voice port of the Smarthub 2 then that would appear to be the ideal solution for me.

Why haven't you done so already?

Yes, once BT migrate your voice service from the original copper phone line to DV it is just a case of unplugging the N300 connection from the existing master socket and plug it (the N300) into the Digital Voice socket on the Smarthub 2 instead.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by spile:

I currently pay BT £5.22 pm for 500 free minutes to any UK landline or mobile number and charges from my VOIP provider are much higher than that.

If I can connect the N300P PSTN port to the Digital Voice port of the Smarthub 2 then that would appear to be the ideal solution for me.

Why haven't you done so already?

Because Digital Voice hasn’t been enabled on my line yet. BT have said they will notify me of “switch over day”.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Yes, once BT migrate your voice service from the original copper phone line to DV it is just a case of unplugging the N300 connection from the existing master socket and plug it (the N300) into the Digital Voice socket on the Smarthub 2 instead.

That is exactly what I was hoping.

In reply to a post by spile:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by spile:

I currently pay BT £5.22 pm for 500 free minutes to any UK landline or mobile number and charges from my VOIP provider are much higher than that.

If I can connect the N300P PSTN port to the Digital Voice port of the Smarthub 2 then that would appear to be the ideal solution for me.

Why haven't you done so already?

Because Digital Voice hasn’t been enabled on my line yet. BT have said they will notify me of “switch over day”.

OK, presumably that is going to happen within a day or two? However the inbuilt ATA in a BT router isn't configurable to add additional VoIP providers, so does that make your other VoIP service redundant/unnecessary for you?

As I said in a previous reply any VoIP service on the N300 will still function via the usual Ethernet connection to the router.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

As I said in a previous reply any VoIP service on the N300 will still function via the usual Ethernet connection to the router.

The base station of the Gigaset model that the OP owns is just for an analogue service.. What you say is true of other Gigaset VoIP enabled phones but as far as I am aware, the configuration details for the VoIP service from BT aren't available. You simply don't have the flexibility to use anything other than the DV socket on the BT supplied router for DV from BT.

So eventually it will be the case of unplugging the base station from the master socket (or slave) and plugging it into the DV socket of the BT router once BT have switched the service over. The time scale of that happening is unknown.

All kinds of options are available to have a VoIP service from other hosted suppliers using hardware not from BT, but the OP has stated that he wants to retain the voice service he currently has with BT. There doesn't seem to be any immediate plans to cease the current copper pair service he has now, so just leave things as they are at present.

OK, presumably that is going to happen within a day or two? However the inbuilt ATA in a BT router isn't configurable to add additional VoIP providers, so does that make your other VoIP service redundant/unnecessary for you?

I don't know what the timescale is. I've received a letter and email saying it will happen but not exactly when.
I don't need the BT router to work directly with my VOIP provider, it does that via the N300 which gives me VOIP (as well as PSTN) functionality now and will do so when I am switched to Digital Voice.

Edited by spile (Sun 16-May-21 12:56:53)

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

So eventually it will be the case of unplugging the base station from the master socket (or slave) and plugging it into the DV socket of the BT router once BT have switched the service over. The time scale of that happening is unknown.

That is all correct

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

All kinds of options are available to have a VoIP service from other hosted suppliers using hardware not from BT, but the OP has stated that he wants to retain the voice service he currently has with BT. There doesn't seem to be any immediate plans to cease the current copper pair service he has now, so just leave things as they are at present.

I have assumed that once Digital Voice is enabled the copper line will cease to function. As for timescale, the letter says "Not just yet" and "We'll be in touch soon".
The only (slight) risk I see is that the N300 PSTN port and the BT Smarthut 2 port will not want to play ball with one another,

In reply to a post by spile:

OK, presumably that is going to happen within a day or two? However the inbuilt ATA in a BT router isn't configurable to add additional VoIP providers, so does that make your other VoIP service redundant/unnecessary for you?

I don't know what the timescale is. I've received a letter and email saying it will happen but not exactly when.
I don't need the BT router to work with my VOIP provider, the N300 gives me that functionality now and will do so when I am switched to Digital Voice.

I am confused which exact model from the Gigaset range do you have? Your earlier postings gave me the impression that your Gigaset base unit did not have VoIP capability, in other words both an ethernet and a phone cable, .

Next VoIP requires a broadband service, so do I take it while you have a BT Broadband service you don't use their supplied router?

In reply to a post by spile:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

So eventually it will be the case of unplugging the base station from the master socket (or slave) and plugging it into the DV socket of the BT router once BT have switched the service over. The time scale of that happening is unknown.

That is all correct

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

All kinds of options are available to have a VoIP service from other hosted suppliers using hardware not from BT, but the OP has stated that he wants to retain the voice service he currently has with BT. There doesn't seem to be any immediate plans to cease the current copper pair service he has now, so just leave things as they are at present.

I have assumed that once Digital Voice is enabled the copper line will cease to function. As for timescale, the letter says "Not just yet" and "We'll be in touch soon".
The only (slight) risk I see is that the N300 PSTN port and the BT Smarthut 2 port will not want to play ball with one another,

OK got it, your Gigaset set base station accepts both a PSTN service and an ethernet connection for VoIP. The BT router with DV enabled means you can plug any analogue phone into the DV socket, that would include the phone line side of the Gigaset base station. So it looks to me that nothing really changes for you to give you all your desires whether using the phone side of a master socket or the DV service from the BT router. Case closed.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Posting in the early hours has led to huge confusion. You need to reconsider in the cold light of day.

MHC's The SmartHub BT socket can only provide an analog phone signal, there can be no conversion back to digital.

The N300 could of course handle both VOIP services but BT in their wisdom will not give out the VOIP registration details for their Digital Voice so it has to come from the SmartHub analog output.

I wasn't aware that BT were being sticky wrt the DV registration details, so thanks for that. Typical of them.

But.

Plug in a DECT base station such as the N300 and that converts it back to digital. That was the final step I described. Madness that BT don't allow it straight through like the Voipfone signal. Lack of thinking it through at the design stage and only catering for people on copper, or an odd management decision.

I had the same letter/email from BT.

There is a news article on the TBB home page about this as well.

The signal will no longer be turned into analogue at the exchange but instead will be delivered to the smarthub 2 as digital which will then convert it to analogue for the bt phone port on the back. When then plugging in a handset that hanset will act exactly the same as when it was plugged in to the old copper phone line - to the handset it still is plugged in to a standard analogue phone line.

However, BT also sell wifi handsets that connect to the router over wifi and therefore don't need to plug in to any phone port. They are currently doing an offer where they will give them to people if they sign up - I think the details of how to do so were in the email. They also do a wireless box that delivers an analogue port if you want to use a phone with a standard BT plug but not put it where the router is.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Posting in the early hours has led to huge confusion. You need to reconsider in the cold light of day.

MHC's The SmartHub BT socket can only provide an analog phone signal, there can be no conversion back to digital.

The N300 could of course handle both VOIP services but BT in their wisdom will not give out the VOIP registration details for their Digital Voice so it has to come from the SmartHub analog output.

I wasn't aware that BT were being sticky wrt the DV registration details, so thanks for that. Typical of them.

But.

Plug in a DECT base station such as the N300 and that converts it back to digital. That was the final step I described. Madness that BT don't allow it straight through like the Voipfone signal. Lack of thinking it through at the design stage and only catering for people on copper, or an odd management decision.

Have a look at page 9 of the URL https://www.voipon.co.uk/documents/N300-User-Manual.pdf

The OP has a Gigaset N300 IP base station. Currently his analogue service s provided from the copper wire connected master socket but will at some time by switched over to the DV socket of the BT router. At that time he will need to physically move over the telephone cable from the master socket to the DV socket of the router. His basic question was really "would it work?" the answer being yes.

There is no need to know the credentials of the DV service, but would be nice to know should you wish to use something other than the BT supplied router to which a VoIP enabled phone or base station would plug until any port of the router.

The OP has the best of both worlds from a single, or multiple, phone(s); the BT DV service and a service, or services, from hosted VoIP providers like Sipgate or Voipfone.

I don't think you have added to my knowledge there, except for the information that Voipfone apparently tell us more about the N300 than the Gigaset manual seems to. But as far as I'm concerned the topic served its purpose when the OP got the answer.

I merely posted again in it as a polite response to a previous reply to me .

Thanks for your reply, I still think you have not quite got it. Have you any hands on experience of a Gigaset VoIP phone base station? I have. In fixed line mode the PSTN connection is used in a landline BT socket or alternatively when DV is present in the Smarthub PSTN output then the phone is a effectively a landline phone no VoIP involved no conversion back to digital.

I expect BT have locked the VoIP registration down because a large proportion of users would get it wrong or change things that cause problems giving support staff a nightmare.

I don't quite follow why you think it is only catering for users on copper, DV can be on any service, Fibre or xDSL.

The N300 is a DECT base station! (With an additional analogue input port).

Digital enhanced cordless telecommunications (Digital European cordless telecommunications), usually known by the acronym DECT, is a standard primarily used for creating cordless telephone systems.

It's a digital phone system, just like your mobile is a digital phone.

DECT handsets are digital. The transmission between base station and handset is digital, measured in kbps. With, to be pedantic, a final conversion in the handset back again to analogue so your ear can hear it.

Re your "I don't quite follow why you think it is only catering for users on copper, DV can be on any service, Fibre or xDSL", I don't think I have ever said that*. I am fully aware, and always have been, that it is available on xDSL and FTTC. What I did wrongly say, in my ignorance of BT's restriction, was that the OP's copper would become redundant once their FTTP was in place.

As it should!

Your suggestion about the reasons for BT locking down the credentials is valid in a way, but as far as I know doesn't worry any other VOIP providers. Once PSTN is dead, non-broadband landline users are surely going to need a modem, i.e. a smaller cheaper version of the Hub? By definition Openreach/BT can't send an analogue "digital voice" down the copper unless it goes to a digital receiver. The copper becomes ADSLx (or ISDN) from the original copper source exchange. Which sounds crazy.

The current BT base stations take the analogue signal and convert it to digital for communication with the handsets. The Gigaset one also does that, as well as being able to take the DV one direct over ethernet. Just BT won't allow the latter.

As a BT Hub still requires a password to use its WiFi, will the modem need one too? If so, what's the difference between that and giving them the credentials for the DV? Or even, if they make the modem not need any credentials, why would DV on FTTx need them?

We don't need credentials for PSTN.

Your suggestion doesn't make sense to me, for those reasons.

It'll be interesting to see what the other CPs do. Including those that do phone-only rather than with a broadband service.

*Edit: Ah. I think I have spotted where I accidentally misled you with "Lack of thinking it through at the design stage and only catering for people on copper, or an odd management decision". It was late at night, though not quite as late as this post .

"People on copper" there means people who still use a landline phone with their broadband and have not switched to third-party VOIP already. BT could have included the analogue phone socket on the Hub purely so such copper users did not have to change their phone kit once their master socket no longer carried a PSTN signal. I hope that clears that up.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 18-May-21 01:44:24)

I think one point worth noting is that some audio quality will be lost when using the BT hubs digital voice analogue port to connect to a Gigaset N300 fixed line analogue port as the working frequency range is likely to be between 20hz and 20khz between these two points which isn't as good as it going digital all the way to the handset via a VOIP style of service.

Don't believe that will be a problem. In the old BT badged 2-wire HG27xx ADSL/VDSLhub there were two ATAs which could be linked to BTs earlier VoIP product and they presented two standard BT sockets. I ran those into DECT base stations or various types and never had any audio issues.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Don't believe that will be a problem.

Totally agree, was just pointing out that some quality would be lost because of the analogue interface into the N300 compared to digital all the way to the handset but if the OP was happy with their copper service they will be equally happy with this solution

I am now going to attempt to be more pedantic than yourself, which is a tall order

I know perfectly well that the D in DECT stands for digital and how the base station and handsets communicate via a digital wireless connection. I hacked a locked down Tesco VOIP Gigaset base station years ago to change the SIP registration to get it to work on a Plusnet Broadband service.

Digital can mean many things, VOIP is a digital protocol, so is DECT wi-fi but completely different so I cannot agree with your statement that the N300 .....

converts it back to digital

Converting back implies returning to a previous state or situation which is not happening, the phone is converting analog signals to DECT wi-fi not to VoIP protocol which to me seemed to be what you were suggesting.

It seems that the reason for DV being locked down is to meet Government Security rules as it will be a replacement for the copper PSTN service.

Have a look at this very long thread where the DV VoIP credential security is discussed and a convoluted method to use a different router but still have DV is described.

Smart Hub DV

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I expect BT have locked the VoIP registration down because a large proportion of users would get it wrong or change things that cause problems giving support staff a nightmare.

The BT VOIP system is a bit more secure than a normal VOIP service. There was a recent thread about a complex procedure to use other equipment.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I am now going to attempt to be more pedantic than yourself, which is a tall order

Nice one . Made me chuckle. However I don't acceptthe criticism implicit in "Digital can mean many things, VOIP is a digital protocol, so is DECT wi-fi but completely different so I cannot agree with your statement that the N300 .....

converts it back to digital

Converting back implies returning to a previous state or situation which is not happening, the phone is converting analog signals to DECT wi-fi not to VoIP protocol which to me seemed to be what you were suggesting".

No, I wasn't. I meant precisely what I said, a conversion from the DC <> analogue <> digital. Nothing to do with the protocols. The N300 can handle the Viopfone VOIP protocol and presumably therefore the DV one. (Though I have a vague recollection from last year of reading that DV does not use any of the industry standard protocols?).

It seems that the reason for DV being locked down is to meet Government Security rules as it will be a replacement for the copper PSTN service.

Hmmmm. I believe you, but that simply demonstrates only a restricted understanding of the topic by whoever decreed that.

Particularly given my earlier (rather convoluted and I had trouble explaining) point about the use or non-use of PPP passwords on BT Hubs.

Have a look at this very long thread where the DV VoIP credential security is discussed and a convoluted method to use a different router but still have DV is described.

Smart Hub DV

Maybe, maybe not. I'm still a bit yuk from being here so late this (just) morning !

Yes, I put a link to the thread in my latest reply to RobertoS, by using an encrypted server BT have made it very difficult to obtain the registration details.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I expect BT have locked the VoIP registration down because a large proportion of users would get it wrong or change things that cause problems giving support staff a nightmare.

The BT VOIP system is a bit more secure than a normal VOIP service. There was a recent thread about a complex procedure to use other equipment.

That doesn't make the VOIP any more secure.

90% of the complex procedure shown in that thread was to hide the user credentials from the user and was nothing to do secure VOIP.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

90% of the complex procedure shown in that thread was to hide the user credentials from the user and was nothing to do secure VOIP.

My guess is that BT have done this to reduce their support costs, and stop customers using their own VoIP ATA or handset. Similar idea to ISPs forcing use of their own routers, it reduces the costs of the support organisation.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

90% of the complex procedure shown in that thread was to hide the user credentials from the user and was nothing to do secure VOIP.

My guess is that BT have done this to reduce their support costs, and stop customers using their own VoIP ATA or handset. Similar idea to ISPs forcing use of their own routers, it reduces the costs of the support organisation.

I can appreciate that with residential or consumer users, but with business it drives companies to either use all BT Cloud Voice services with BT equipment or put all of their services with another provider. Many medium size businesses will look to have 2 or more VoIP providers - cost and resilience with their own equipment. By restricting business users BT are effectively cutting off a revenue stream

In reply to a post by MHC:

I can appreciate that with residential or consumer users, but with business it drives companies to either use all BT Cloud Voice services with BT equipment or put all of their services with another provider. Many medium size businesses will look to have 2 or more VoIP providers - cost and resilience with their own equipment. By restricting business users BT are effectively cutting off a revenue stream

I thought Business customers used different hardware to Retail / Domestic customers? If business is also restricted, perhaps this is in an attempt to offer a Quality of Service. Maybe to ensure if the data service is saturated out that the voice doesn't glitch.

Of course nothing to stop anyone using a third party VoIP company, but at this point QoS is all the customers problem.

It is different hardware, original Smart Hub (not v2) and a Yealink W60B base for small businesses - or other alternates. They are fully locked down and I have not managed to find a way in and nothing on the web either. They do provide decent support for it - but would be nice to have access to the set-up data whilst acknowledging responsibility for any problems.

I am pleased to report that the N300 can be connected to the pstn port on the SH2 and it functions as expected...

Digital Voice presented as fixed line on the Gigaset handset

VOIP lines presented on the Gigaset handset as expected

Even a BT digital phone works without conflict albeit and as expected for the BT Digital Voice line only.

Why did you have a doubts? It is behaving exactly as it should.

Edited by Realalemadrid (Tue 08-Jun-21 08:29:28)

Experience has increased tendency to be suspicious exacerbated by no reference to hardware other than a “phone”.

The BT handsets should be GAP compatible and so should pair with the N300 if you wanted to use them for 3rd party VoIP calls.

I have been unable to register the BT digital phone with the Gigaset hub. I am wondering if the BT phone is restricted to the BT Smarthub 2

What brand is the phone? Yealink will not register with others - BT use those for business, or it may be a specific firmware buld which precludes it.

Hub is a Siemens Gigaset N300. Phone is a BT branded digital phone.

The N300 series are all very good at working with most handsets. However, some manufacturers look their phones to their own base stations - and that could be what you have.

It is te underlying brand that is need - not just the BT label. Have a look under tehbattery to see if there is a part number or manufacturer ID>

There is no branding on the BT Digital Phone which suggests that it is not a rebranded phone. It comes as no surprise that they use their own firmware that does not allow their hardware to be used with other manufacturers. I have therefore concluded that it is not DECT compatible.

The BT Digital Home Phones claim to be GAP compatible so should at least be able to be used for basic phone functions on other DECT base stations.

But if it doesn't connect to the Gigaset base station?