Frustrated by another fault

Yesterday my line went dead for an hour. My fibre (and line) was working after this but at a reduced speed (DLM), however, an hour later my fibre disconnected. The OR modem is not synching, just flashing, so I have no connection. I've rung up PN who said I need to wait 72 hours.

Incidentally I spoke to the guy working at the cabinet who said that they are moving lines over from one cabinet to a new one. I know they cannot access the fibre cabinet, but wonder if they inadvertently affected my fibre connection?

(I'm now sharing my brothers 5 meg connection via wi-fi

72 hours! tell them to get their act together and sort it today, or at least start the resolution.

You might also wish to inform them that if they do not get it sorted you will take action to delay your payments to them by 72 hours every month. If they believe a 72 hour wait is acceptable then they will not mind waiting for their money.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. PN have said it could take up to 72 hours - they have raised it as a fault - but, if an engineer needs to be arranged, an appointment won't be raised till Monday or Tuesday. I bet an engineer will be needed. I'll have to wait till the end of next week. So, one week without fibre

The next action on your Contact Us Ticket is due on Monday 3rd June at 5:00pm. This ticket will remain open with the BOT - FTTC Logged Faults - Interm until this time.

FTTC circuits don't like tees. Copper cabinet deload, reloads where they have fitted a new cabinet shell involve teeing in all circuits.

That's subtly different from what you said in your OP and perfectly normal for faults that need to be referred to Openreach, nothing PN can do about it.

I know that's why I posted again - I guess annoyance got the better of me!

Well pleased to say the modem has now finally stopped trying to synch and has now done so

Alas however, interleaving has kicked in and my speed has dropped from 60-43 & ping 15ms to 40ms.

Like a few months ago, after two to three days my speed & ping picked up. Just a case of waiting. Ho hum.....DLM I hate it!

Further to my note above - Plusnet are now requesting "To progress your fault, we need to arrange a engineer visit."!

I know they are trying to help, but as my modem is now syncing and I'm just waiting for the DLM to return my speed to the normal 60 Mbps, is an engineer visit going to help at all??

Please give me your opinion.

If you are trying to speed up the DLM process then yes the flowchart probably says engineer to attend and then a reset of DLM may take place

No I'm not trying to speed up DLM. Please see the start of my thread!

When I originally contacted Plusnet I had no Fibre connection at all. The modem just kept on trying to connect. However since then it has reconnected after a few days but at a lower speed. The last time this happened, it only took four days to increase. An OR guy did call the last time (in April), but said he could not 'easily' reset the profile (after two days). So, is there any point requesting another visit?

I have said on the ticket, that if my speed fails to increase to it's normal level within a few days I'll request a visit. Does this seem reasonable?

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

No I'm not trying to speed up DLM. Please see the start of my thread!

There's nothing at the start of the thread that says you're not trying to speed up DLM

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

I know they are trying to help, but as my modem is now syncing and I'm just waiting for the DLM to return my speed to the normal 60 Mbps, is an engineer visit going to help at all??

Let the engineer visit. The last time I had a visit, he spent an hour here, did lots of tests, spent a long time on the phone and my speed has been higher ever since - my longest ever period syncing at over 70Mbps and with no interleaving, nearly two months now.

Okay thanks for that then, I'll request a visit then.

Go ahead with the engineer visit, when he is on the premises he can request a DLM reset which should your speed come back.

Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Jun-13 20:00:25)

Thanks Ryan, I'll try that, but the last time I had a similar issue in April the OR guy said a 'reset' was not normal or easy to do. That's why, as I now have a (slow) connection I could wait.

The other issue is by the time they visit, my speed my well have gone up again.

The engineer can request the DLM to be reset, it's very easy to-do. He will only do it if he feel it's needed. The NGA HelpDesk (where he will request for the reset) can also deny to do the reset if they feel it isn't needed. Though as mentioned it's always good to make sure your line is testing fine after a fault... so the engineer won't be wasting time.

Not quite correct.
The DLM resets on FTTC are now done by the engineers themselves, however they will only be done if required, ie they have fixed a hard fault, and the difference between the actual sync rate and maximum achievable is pronounced.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Not quite correct.
The DLM resets on FTTC are now done by the engineers themselves, however they will only be done if required, ie they have fixed a hard fault, and the difference between the actual sync rate and maximum achievable is pronounced.

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

No, it will mean below the speed which the engineer has determined the line is capable of.

Edited by kasg (Wed 05-Jun-13 19:15:00)

Oh, well that's something. My line is capable of between 66 Mbps (when first activated in January) to a stable 60 Mbps (between January & May). Currently 44 Mbps with a high ping of 40 ms (interleaving on I think) usually 15 ms.

My only concern is time the appointment arrives (maybe Tuesday next week), the line may be back to normal again. Means staying in for nothing! (Hate DLM!!)

And the line is how long?

Because over time some speed is lost as cross talk increases, hence why firms are looking to invest in vectoring to improve speeds as demand for VDSL increases

Hi Andrew

Not sure how far the line is, but the cabinet is only a around 5 minutes walk away

Will I guess vectoring 'may' reduce the pain of DLM. Faults are a real pain as my speed has been a constant 60 for a few months until last Friday, when work on the cabinet caused the problem, so I'm just waiting for either DLM & (or?) the OR person to get it back to line speed.

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

That acceptable range is for the throughput for the sync at the time, not for the sync figure itself.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

That acceptable range is for the throughput for the sync at the time, not for the sync figure itself.

Here we go again - always 20 questions!

What is 'throughput' ?

The amount of data you can receive at a device (i.e your computer), when you do a speedtest the results are known as your throughput download and upload.

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

The task notes should show an expected sync rate to the DP. If the engineer plugs in their tester, and sees the current sync rate of X, but the max achievable rate shown by the same tester is much greater.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So what is 'pronounced' - it that below the 16 Mbps quoted on the BT Wholesale test as an 'acceptable range'?

The task notes should show an expected sync rate to the DP. If the engineer plugs in their tester, and sees the current sync rate of X, but the max achievable rate shown by the same tester is much greater.

Thanks that's much clearer - oh, what's DP??

Distribution Point? Wherever that might be. Could be at the top of a pole, or in an underground joint box. It's (hopefully) the last joint in the loop before the "Drop Wire" (which might be an underground wire, rather than pole-strung!

cheers, a

Thanks - I find this forum wonderful, but wish that people don't assume that we know all the abbreviations & technical jargon - worse than government

When I started, I thought others were speaking a foreign language, but a few months down the line, you find you just slip in to it.

I've got a glossary of many terms here, if that's any help. You may find the site useful in general .

Could be at the top of a pole, or in an underground joint box. It's (hopefully) the last joint in the loop before the "Drop Wire" (which might be an underground wire, rather than pole-strung!

Drop wire is only from an overhead feed, if its UG, then it's a lead in.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Could be at the top of a pole, or in an underground joint box. It's (hopefully) the last joint in the loop before the "Drop Wire" (which might be an underground wire, rather than pole-strung!

Drop wire is only from an overhead feed, if its UG, then it's a lead in.

Ahh! Here's bowing to your expertise, Zarjaz!

You better tell the foreigners at ETSI! They're calling them DWUGs *chuckle!* -- Drop Wires UnderGround.

See p.24 of ETSI STC TM6 at [1]

cheers, a

[1] http://www.joepeesoft.com/Public/DSL_Corner/Docs_ETS...

Hopefully people here will answer the simple questions rather just shout and tell people to use google which some forums do

Sorry Mr.S, was this aimed at me ? If so, I'm missing the point, had hoped I was being helpful to the OP.

Zarjaz - you were being helpful...thanks. I just hate jargon. Just a pet hate of mine, as it leads to more questions if the person it is aimed at does not know what you're talking about (Some are too scared to ask!)

Sorry, suspect I am more guilty than the rest, as I am fluent in the strange dialect of the telephone engineer.

Lol!

Just as an update:

The Open Reach engineer called today 1-2pm (unannounced). He said there is still a fault on the line which he will report back.

IP Profile for your line is - 56.64 Mbps (06/06/13) Upload 7.03

My usual profile 60 + Upload 17 - he said it may take several weeks to resolve, but will be done remotely without a further home visit.

Do you think the ticket I raised with Plusnet should be left open until the fault is cleared?

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

Do you think the ticket I raised with Plusnet should be left open until the fault is cleared?

Yes! Otherwise they might close the fault report to Openreach!

Was a general comment that people here are happy to explain if people ask

In reply to a post by shalom2005:

Do you think the ticket I raised with Plusnet should be left open until the fault is cleared?

I vaguely recall that Plusnet's tickets are auto-closed if not updated within 14 days.

I had to specifically request that one of my tickets should remain open when I had an intermittent fault last year that meant it wasn't necessarily being updated regularly.

You may wish to check that with one of Plusnet's staff members (just in case).

Thanks everyone. Well they said they will 'leave to the support team to decide'.

As the fault is still open with....Open Reach I don't think Plusnet can close it. I've noticed this morning that already my (reset) profile has dropped 1 meg from 56.64-55.51, but the 582n router did not notice in the log!

I to ask questions on the ticket that fail to get replied to. To be honest it's easier to ask on the forum or PM a member of staff

Could someone on this forum please explain this in plain language?

"Notes - EU complaining of slow Upload speed , alleges it previously was 17Mbit/s now below 10MBIT/S . Internal connections and setup inspected all OK. There is a battery contact fault proving to D side battery . Unable to clear , furthering this fault back for DT , UG skilled engineer required to investigate. *Note* PCP 2 currently being shifted. Fibre ports are apparently teed between DSLAM. Suspect this is causing PQ test errors , may not be to get good PQ test .currently under 10 Mbit/s Download OK. 58 Mbit/s

BT have cleared the fault as resolved when clearly it is not

assigning to my pool"

The OR engineer did say he will pass it to a more experienced member of staff to investigate further. Just wondering what the technical jargon means? Many thanks.

Are you telling us old stuff there, filling in earlier posts, or is that something new?

No this is new on my ticket. It's the report back from yesterdays OR engineer. However I now have another update saying another engineer has said today that there is no fault & my line is 'stable', when in fact my Upload speed has dropped from 17.4 to 7.4 Mbps.

Plusnet said they will 'monitor' my line. How can two engineers say opposite things ?

All OK in the premises. Battery contact fault on the D (distribution) side, between you and the street cabinet.

Battery contact, in laymans terms, the exchange battery of another circuit is leaking on to your pair of wires. Most likely cause, a wet joint, with poor insulation on your wires allowing the fault.

The engineer has passed (furthered) the task to diagnostic testing (DT) Most likely on advice from the FTTC service management centre.

The engineer does not have the skills to fault the underground network (socket jockey)

Sounds like your cabinet is being shifted from one location to another, no mean feat whilst maintaining the connections within, during this process at some point, your pair will be teed, so appears in both old and new cabinets, he suggests that this may be the cause of some/all of the faults reported during his (PQ) pair quality test.

In theory, the pair should have been testing OK before the CP was allowed to raise a fault on the FTTC circuit, I wonder if the now apparent battery contact is the result of the cab changeover ?

The two separate lines beneath have, I suggest, been added by the CP.

Hope this helps.

Many thanks Zarjaz. That helps a lot. The work on the cabinet is expected to last for several weeks, so, hopefully when it is done my line will return to normal (ish!), otherwise I'll raise another ticket with Plusnet.

Thanks again.

What does "teed" actually mean in these circumstances?

That there are 2 different E-side cables back to the exchange? The E-side being moved over to a new PCP cabinet, with a (temporary) tie cable between old & new PCP's?

It sounds strange that this whole process is going to take weeks. It sounds like there's a lot of ancillary work going on too - cables being added or removed down other routes. Or perhaps a duct is full, and changes can only be done gradually.

What does "teed" actually mean in these circumstances?

So, for whatever reason the cabinet is being relocated. This is no mean feat, as is to be done with no loss of service to the punters connected to it.

Before I go off on one of my rambling explanations, lets get my jargon clear, cab 1, the original cabinet and terminations, cab 2, the new one. Cab hole, the underground cable chamber holding all the current cables. Hopefully you are all up to speed with the terms E and D sides.

Cab 2 installed and new ducts run in to the cab hole.

Although records exist, a 'picture' is taken of all the existing terminations in cab1, tracing the jumpers out from E to D.

New cables are pulled in from cab hole to cab2

The existing E and D side cable joints in the cab hole are opened or have joints made in them.

So now the 'teeing' begins.

E side 1 in cab1 is three way crimped to E side 1 in cab2 in the joint in the cab hole. At this point the pair splits in the joint going to two separate points, this is repeated for say the first 100 pairs.

All this is repeated till everything is duplicated in both cabs, then the new jumpers are run from new E to new D's in cab2, once complete, the tee's are cut away.

All this takes time, and lots of it.

Factor in also the new added complication of FTTC cables and additional jumpers.

It could certainly give issues with FTTC services, and may even be the location of the OP's battery fault.

Got that ?

Ah, right - yup, I think I've got it now

What I was missing was the extra joints down in the cab hole. So the E-side (and D-side) cables terminate in the hole, and are jointed to a short length of cable that takes the signal up into the cab?

The extra crimping going on down there must be a pain - and adding new crimped connections, and removing the old ones, must leave the tails from the main D-side and E-side cables in an "interesting" state.

I guess, though, that it doesn't happen very often.

What happens to the "mass" of crimps down there, once the process has finished? Do they get sealed into some protective enclosure at all?

What happens to the "mass" of crimps down there, once the process has finished? Do they get sealed into some protective enclosure at all?

Well the excess are removed, obviously, the rest will be fitted with an appropriate waterproof closure, a joint.

Maybe that's why the OR guy said it may take a few weeks. He felt that until the work is complete on the cabinet, it's best to leave my fibre connection alone. He asked to run my line on it's own, but he could not do so

The esides are modular jointed 25 pairs at a time. The redundant wires are cut away from the teed module at the end. It is a very neat job.

The problem is that FTTC does not like being teed up as I posted earlier. The eside tees won't effect the circuit but the tees on the fttc tail does.

I have had this 'challenge' myself recently. You have to tee them up throughout the duration of the works and it causes problems.

Edited by deleted (Sat 08-Jun-13 12:10:59)

The e sides are modular jointed 25 pairs at a time.

...but doesn't it feel like they aren't all taking .... plus the concentration does lapse some times

They remade a wet 2500pr joint round here recently, someone dropped off, and now have two 50pr units transposed. No point telling routing, it's where it's 'supposed' to be, so have to rely on the time honoured tradition of cab door graffiti !