G.INP or Interleaving?

My latency went up on the 16th of this month. Is this likely to be due to G.INP or Interleaving?

Modem is ECI. Cab is Huawei.

Graphs:

http://i.imgur.com/JlgjSAD.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZjLYE4A.png


Thanks.

Interleaving. G.inp doesn't increase latency.

If you have an unlocked modem make sure to upgrade it to latest firmware.

If you're connected to a Huawei DSLAM you should get G.inp in the next few days.

If you're on an ECI DSLAM you will get it some time between now and the next 3 months.

Really?

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/03/latency...

I'll rephrase.

G.inp isn't supposed to add latency. I have seen a couple of cases where latency has gone up, modems that don't support G.inp seem to end up interleaved and the Openreach system denies that they are.

A firmware update should sort it.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Are you sure G.inp is being rolled out nation wide? My fibre was connected yesterday and the Engineer was under the impression that only selected areas were trialing it still.

When a line is configured for G.INP, some issues are still best dealt with by the FEC+interleaving process, so this can still be configured. I've certainly seen a lot of cases where FEC+interleaving is part of the G.INP configuration.

However, I've found that the FEC overhead is much reduced (around 5% instead of 20%+), and the latency is much reduced (around 0.2ms instead of 8ms).

Why? G.INP is well suited to handling SHINE, but would be overloaded by REIN. The new set of settings for G.INP allow the two to be handled separately.

I've seen it said elsewhere that it would be complete on the Huawei boxes by the end of Q4 (BT's financial dates, so end March). Changeover for ECI DSLAMs would then start, going on into Q1 (April on)

OK cool sounds good. Mine's a Huawei cab so fingers crossed it's turned on in the next few days then.

The Engineer was relatively young and inexperienced so perhaps that explains his lack of knowledge about G.inp.

yeah I just posted this on the plusnet forum, as aaisp have made a complaint to BTw about latency increases which in my view is down to incompatible devices. As you said g.inp at least on some devices when it wont work falls back to interleaving.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yeah I just posted this on the plusnet forum, as aaisp have made a complaint to BTw about latency increases which in my view is down to incompatible devices. As you said g.inp at least on some devices when it wont work falls back to interleaving.

I've just been talking to A&A and given them some information. I hit this issue myself earlier today.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

My latency went up on the 16th of this month. Is this likely to be due to G.INP or Interleaving?

Modem is ECI. Cab is Huawei.

Graphs:

http://i.imgur.com/JlgjSAD.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZjLYE4A.png

I had exactly same issue on my Huawei Cab with a Huawei modem... I seemed to fix it by updating the firmware to a later version...

While everyone told me it was Interleaving Plusnet where telling me I didn't have interleaving enabled,

Which was correct as BT seemed to of assigned a new Fast Path G.INP profile to my line but the modem didn't recognize it which lead to my slight loss of bandwidth, huge increase in latency and unstable throughput speeds.

Hopefully BT should be soon if not already rolling out updated firmware to all devices that need it.

The cab i'm connected to is a Huawie i recently got interleaved whilst using the supplied ECI modem, for the first 14 days or so, the normal loss of 8-10mps downstream sync and 7-8ms added to base latency , it had happened a few times in the past 2yrs, then at the time that i expected DLM to revert my connection back to fast path it added interleave to the upstream and lowered the ds sync rate a little, as well as adding yet another 7-8ms base latency, so from a 11-12ms base latency i ended up with a 27-28ms base latency
Once this had happened i decided to swap the ECI modem for a huawei that is unlocked , 2 days later the connection went from interleaved to G.Inp latency maybe a little lower as currently is 12-13ms which this modem, would be 13-14ms on fast path , the ECI always had offered a slightly lower latency by around 2ms and upstream throughput again slightly higher (QoS on modem is disabled btw ) So I'm stuck with a supplied locked modem that will now not work until it's fw is updated

Bit tangential to this thread, but how do I find out if my cab is Huawei or ECI? I'm using a Draytek 2760 rather than the BT supplied modem and via Telnet all this can tell me is the DSLAM chip is Broadcom.

It does tell me the VDSL firmware is 05-04-08-00-00-06 if that's any help

Edited by Tacitus (Thu 26-Mar-15 16:33:25)

Which cab/exchange? I can check that way.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

My latency went up on the 16th of this month. Is this likely to be due to G.INP or Interleaving?

Modem is ECI. Cab is Huawei.

Graphs:

http://i.imgur.com/JlgjSAD.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZjLYE4A.png


Thanks.

If the cab is Huawei then it's likely to be G.INP. Do a tracert; what is your latency like to your 2nd hop?

Also quite a lot of other people have been posting around recently saying G.INP has been enabled on their cabinet.

In reply to a post by WelshWArrior:

Are you sure G.inp is being rolled out nation wide? My fibre was connected yesterday and the Engineer was under the impression that only selected areas were trialing it still.

Yes it is. I also had it enabled on the 22nd and I'm not in a previous trial area.

Edited by chris6273 (Thu 26-Mar-15 16:49:44)

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

...and via Telnet all this can tell me is the DSLAM chip is Broadcom.

I *think* this means it's a Huawei cab.

It looks like interleaving to me. I'm going to guess your modem doesn't support g.inp (at least at your current firmware level), and it looks like the DLM software is putting interleaving on in those cases, for a while at least.

The relevant BT Openreach SIN explicitly states connected modems must support (G.INP � ITU G.998.4). Page 25.

http://www.sinet.bt.com/sinet/SINs/pdf/498v6p0.pdf

Theoretically it is down to ISPs to make sure their customers only connect modems which conform to the SIN. There are other things that might arise in the future, like vectoring, also mandated in the SIN.

Will new firmware be pushed to my ECI modem if it's connected to a Hauwei cab?

I do have a spare unlocked HG612. I just need to locate the latest firmware.

My understanding of it, is that it should be OK with the HG612, the ECI modems *may* need a DLM reset to trigger the firmware upgrade.

Where did you get the latest firmware from?

Hi was just in process of replying...

https://mega.co.nz/#F!LdJFDIJL!e_E1twsIg2kTet8mPjrb4w

You can find it at the link above, you have 3 options..

Original = Locked
Unlocked = Unlocked (No access to web gui but can be read via telnet)
Web Gui = Unlocked with Full access to Web Gui & Telnet

Install process is same as original unlocking

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yeah I just posted this on the plusnet forum, as aaisp have made a complaint to BTw about latency increases which in my view is down to incompatible devices. As you said g.inp at least on some devices when it wont work falls back to interleaving.

I've just been talking to A&A and given them some information. I hit this issue myself earlier today.

you got your before and after stats?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

you got your before and after stats?

Largely by chance yes, as do they.

can we see them here?

Thanks. I've switched from the ECI modem to the HG612 3B running the latest firmware. I'm back on fast path, and upstream sync has increased by a couple of megabits, which is nice.

In reply to a post by ip75:

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

...and via Telnet all this can tell me is the DSLAM chip is Broadcom.

I *think* this means it's a Huawei cab.

I have a feeling you are correct, so It looks as though G.INP will be enabled by the end of next week. I'll have to check over on the Draytek site as to whether the current firmware is G.INP 'friendly'

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Thanks. I've switched from the ECI modem to the HG612 3B running the latest firmware. I'm back on fast path, and upstream sync has increased by a couple of megabits, which is nice.

That's good!

Glad I could help!

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Bit tangential to this thread, but how do I find out if my cab is Huawei or ECI?

If you know where your cabinet is, see these pictures. (The 128s should be labelled 96 I think but I keep forgetting to alter them).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Bit tangential to this thread, but how do I find out if my cab is Huawei or ECI?

If you know where your cabinet is, see these pictures. (The 128s should be labelled 96 I think but I keep forgetting to alter them).

I know for sure which cabinet I'm on as it's just down the road and the ISP (iDNet) confirmed I'm on that one. Not checked if there's any 'model/type' number on the cabinet, but from the pictures it's definitely a Huawei 288.

As I said earlier the Draytek reports that the DSLAM chipset is a Broadcom. Since Drayteks use Lantiq, the best I can expect is that it's G.INP 'friendly'. Certainly until they start releasing updated firmware.

I've got a Zyxel SBG-3300 knocking about which uses a Broadcom chip, so it might be worth trying that and see what happens.

Not checked if there's any 'model/type' number on the cabinet

There isn't.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

I know for sure which cabinet I'm on as it's just down the road and the ISP (iDNet) confirmed I'm on that one. Not checked if there's any 'model/type' number on the cabinet, but from the pictures it's definitely a Huawei 288.

Yes I can also confirm that this cabinet found here.. is a Broadcom based Huawei 288.. It's is the same cabinet that I'm connected to and seems to be one of the cabinets on BT's G.INP roll out.

I connect to this using a HG612, Unfortubatly I'm yet to confirm whether lines with Lantiq chipsets connected are actually being assigned G.INP profiles yet or if they are yet compatible with G.INP...

I'm waiting for my neighbour to give me his new admin password for his HH5 and will see how his connection is fairing and if theirs anything that will indicate G.INP activity. (HH5 is also a Lantiq chipset AFAIK)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

My understanding of it, is that it should be OK with the HG612, the ECI modems *may* need a DLM reset to trigger the firmware upgrade.

Out of interest, would an ECI modem provided on 27th February by OR need an update?

On the 20th of March my connection reset and went from 20/80 to 20/74. I am wondering if the ECI modem has gone into interleaved mode.

Will I need to ask Zen to see if they can get the DLM reset.

If not done by the installer at time of provision, then yes it would need one.

So what's the score with a Type A BT Homehub 5? Is this all ready to support G.INP or do BT retail need to push a update to enable?

As others have said, had a drop in speed last few days - and we have a Huwaei cab outside the house.

I *believe* that the Hub5 should be OK, no DLM reset required.

It's passed Openreach's conformity testing so it should support retransmission.

I believe the router automatically updates itself - not sure if it's pushed or if it periodically checks itself.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I connect to this using a HG612, Unfortubatly I'm yet to confirm whether lines with Lantiq chipsets connected are actually being assigned G.INP profiles yet or if they are yet compatible with G.INP...

I could try unlocking the Huawei that BT supplied, but the way I've got everything set up, it's easier for me to plug the Draytek straight into the main socket and take it from there.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I'm waiting for my neighbour to give me his new admin password for his HH5 and will see how his connection is fairing and if theirs anything that will indicate G.INP activity. (HH5 is also a Lantiq chipset AFAIK)

It would be useful to know

have you asked Draytek about G.INP support on your device?

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

If not done by the installer at time of provision, then yes it would need one.

From what I remember he simply took it out of the box and fitted it, there was no connection made to it apart from the cable to the data extension kit socket.

I will ask Zen if they can do something about it.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

have you asked Draytek about G.INP support on your device?

I think the current firmware is G.INP 'friendly". IOW it doesn't fully support it but it won't do anything to impede it. There is some firmware on the international ftp site which may support it properly, but that's to be confirmed.

Support haven't got back to me yet, but if that's correct I'll setup the Zyxel which I know does support it.

[Edit] Just got an email from my ISP to say my cabinet has not been G.INP enabled yet and, having checked with BT they couldn't say when it would be.

Edited by Tacitus (Sat 28-Mar-15 07:54:28)

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Support haven't got back to me yet, but if that's correct I'll setup the Zyxel which I know does support it.

OK well will have to see what they say about it.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

[Edit] Just got an email from my ISP to say my cabinet has not been G.INP enabled yet and, having checked with BT they couldn't say when it would be.

Who is your ISP, I'm with Plusnet and they said they couldn't check whether G.INP was on a line at the moment, and said it "didn't appear to be" but obviously as I found... It was!

If you do have a HG612 modem then it might be worth updating it and connect it up to check whether or not it is active or not.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

Who is your ISP, I'm with Plusnet and they said they couldn't check whether G.INP was on a line at the moment, and said it "didn't appear to be" but obviously as I found... It was!

I'm with iDNet. Apparently they contacted BT who (no surprise) weren't able to tell them anything other than they're in the process of rolling it out. I would have thought iDNet would be able to tell from their end but obviously not.

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

If you do have a HG612 modem then it might be worth updating it and connect it up to check whether or not it is active or not.

I do have one but it's not unlocked - in fact I only used it briefly until I got the Zyxel set up. Didn't really like the Zyxel UI which I found confusing, although it did the job.

I've always had a soft spot for Drayteks having used them in the past, so I got the 2760. This has been flawless, although it doesn't have the range of options that the Zyxel does.

I'm aware of the issues you have using the HG612 with the Draytek 2760, I too would be a bit ......

But it may be good for both of us to get a better idea of the issue if you temporarily setup the HG612... before hand obviously unlock it (which is pretty easy to do)

Even if it means only having it connected for a few hours, it will show us if G.INP has been activated on your line..

In reply to a post by rippedcotton:

I will ask Zen if they can do something about it.

I'm using a standard Openreach ECI modem so would be interested if you find anything out

G.INP, the New Fibre Broadband Enhancement Arrives

http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/g.inp

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-Mar-15 11:45:54)

Post deleted by Huntyz

Was that link meant for me?
I'm interested in how the Openreach ECI modem will work with G.INP, I couldn't see that mentioned?

I've read that an automatic firmware upgrade is required for the ECI modem to use G.INP. I've also read that once the firmware has been upgraded and the line uses G.INP then a standard ECI modem running old firmware will have problems making a connection.

I can see this causing issues for people that have a spare ECI modem and start to use it for troubleshooting as with the old firmware it won't work. Lots of people keep spare kit for fallback - again this will cause issues if it's running old firmware.

As the Openreach ECI modem is locked a customer can't maintain/upgrade the firmware themselves.

If I'm correct in thinking this I can see all sorts of issues.
The ECI modem is in use by lots of people, so I am keen to know how this will work.

i would agree with your thought 's on this, for as long as it will require a reset of DLM by a engineer before the ECI modem can update it's firmware on any line that has had G.inp enabled, as once this has happened the ECI doesn't work,
Although some eci modem users are reporting higher latency and a legacy interleave profile But either way the ECI is made obsolete as it cannot function as intended until a dlm reset is done,Maybe BT will start to allow ISP's control in order to perform this remotely as no physical work at the cab is needed by engineers just a phone call to request it

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 28-Mar-15 13:19:56)

Post deleted by Ignitionnet

I'm sure Kitz forum has plenty of more detailed examples for those who obsess over such things and monitor every minute detail of their connection.

There is genuinely nothing to see. It was interleaved pre-upgrade, and went to using G.inp after with far less interleave per description.

I only checked mine because I read the AAISP service status message and from there looked at my BQM and noted the latency increase. I'm lame; I neither check my BQM or speed test with any regularity.

Edited by deleted (Sat 28-Mar-15 15:00:34)

In reply to a post by mlmclaren:

I'm aware of the issues you have using the HG612 with the Draytek 2760, I too would be a bit ......

I never had any issues using the Draytek with the HG612 as I never used them in combination. The only time I used the HG612 was for a few hours when Fibre was first installed when I used it in combination with an Apple Airport Extreme which will accept PPoE. It's not a combination I would willingly use again as the Airport's firewall is very rudimentary being limited to NAT.

Once I'd got the Zyxel set up I used that as it has a built in VDSL modem. It worked fine but I didn't like the GUI, so I then tried the Draytek which also has a built in VDSL modem. That's been working fine albeit without the facilities of the Zyxel: primarily lack of a VPN endpoint, but I've now worked round that.

I'll try the Zyxel again temporarily as I think that had an option for G.INP so it should be possible to check whether it's enabled.

Give it a few more days in case the cabinet is in the last of the batch - things happen slowly round here - and if the Zyxel doesn't tell me anything, I'll unlock the HG612.

I was curious to see the state of a line that was stuck in interleaved following a g.inp activation.

you are still using the hg612 and with latest firmware?

Mine has a tiny amount of interleaving:-

xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 16856 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59180 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 16976 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.0 5.8
Attn(dB): 19.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.6 7.5
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 -6
B: 178 227
M: 1 1
T: 0 0
R: 10 14
S: 0.0950 0.4272
L: 15922 4532
D: 16 4
I: 189 242
N: 189 242
Q: 16 4
V: 2 0
RxQueue: 33 27
TxQueue: 11 9
G.INP Framing: 18 18
G.INP lookback: 11 9
RRC bits: 24 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 58
B: 0 0
M: 2 2
T: 2 2
R: 16 16
S: 8.0000 16.0000
L: 32 16
D: 1 1
I: 32 32
N: 32 32
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2652111264 473350
RSCorr: 1863124 1845
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 16680964 1017690
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 133447221 2560811
RSCorr: 0 10
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1713 165
rtx_c: 1338 159
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 11 14
minEFTR: 60009 16968
errFreeBits: 245163301 71566047

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 850853973 0
Data Cells: 87967 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 23 23
AS: 267941

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 44.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 0.00
OR: 0.01 0.01
AgR: 60083.56 17012.81

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 4.00
INPRein: 2.00 4.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 16.06
OR: 63.75 31.87
AgR: 63.75 31.87

Bitswap: 194534/194534 6105/6129

It was quite heavily interleaved before, with me waiting for it to revert to Fast Path.

It would be nice to know how all of this will work...

I've read friendly BT peeps on the Kitz forum saying that an ECI modem will need a firmware update to enable G.INP and once the line has been changed a non updated ECI modem won't work without a DLM reset.

If you think otherwise where are you getting your info from?

Is there a way I can tell if my line now has G.INP with my ECI modem attached, I think I had interleave added on 17th of this month and when it has happened once before it rectified itself two days later...

My Broadband Ping

There isn't any real way to tell other than having an unlocked G.inp compatible modem such as the Huawei hg612 3B with the latest firmware SP08 although SP06 works as well, i know because that's the firmware i flashed the modem with ,
But if you ever wanted/needed to use the ECI modem again you would as it stands today have to get DLM reset ,I Wonder if the same will be required when the ECI cabs become G.inp enabled, or will they update the eci modem without a DLM reset, ?
I can see that BT are going to have to sort something out with this, as those who where supplied the eci modem which has been rendered defunct by the G.inp rollout , they i would imagine will at some point be offering a dlm reset remotely at the request of the ISP as without this they can claim that their service is broken

In reply to a post by tommy45:

There isn't any real way to tell other than having an unlocked G.inp compatible modem such as the Huawei hg612 3B with the latest firmware SP08 although SP06 works as well, i know because that's the firmware i flashed the modem with ,
But if you ever wanted/needed to use the ECI modem again you would as it stands today have to get DLM reset ,I Wonder if the same will be required when the ECI cabs become G.inp enabled, or will they update the eci modem without a DLM reset, ?
I can see that BT are going to have to sort something out with this, as those who where supplied the eci modem which has been rendered defunct by the G.inp rollout , they i would imagine will at some point be offering a dlm reset remotely at the request of the ISP as without this they can claim that their service is broken

No. This happens when an ECI modem running outdated firmware is put onto a line that is already running G.inp.

G.inp does not activate on lines that have devices that aren't compatible. Before lines are pushed onto a G.inp profile a check is done. If a line previously had a compatible device on it so is on a G.inp DLM profile then there will be issues, but only under that circumstance.

The big issue at the moment is that it looks as though Openreach have changed the DLM thresholds however if lines can't take G.inp as the CPE isn't compatible they are being pushed onto an interleaved profile.

Were every ECI modem on Huawei DSLAMs unable to disconnect or problematic I would imagine there'd be a pretty big amount of complaints.

It's not great but it's not quite doomsday for all ECI modems. Very few people have more than one modem and a firmware push will fix the unnecessary interleave issues for most.

It does look like Openreach will be having to do some truck rolls though to replace modems that aren't responding to the TR-069 remote update.

So those of us using our "own " modems when G.INP was enabled now find that the supplied ECI modem (sitting on the shelf as the "official spare" ) is of no use as a backup !

Well, seeing as Openreach never authorised the use of kit other than their own, until they issued strict specifications for ISPs to supply theirs ....

See SIN 498.

It isn't the "official spare". It's the official kit.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Thanks. I've switched from the ECI modem to the HG612 3B running the latest firmware. I'm back on fast path, and upstream sync has increased by a couple of megabits, which is nice.

Not for long as you will be switched on G.INP next few days because G.INP (interleaving) replaced Fast Path.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Maybe BT will start to allow ISP's control in order to perform this remotely as no physical work at the cab is needed by engineers just a phone call to request it

Chris Pettitt (Plusnet staff) did metion this last year to me. But nothing is done. I doubt Openreach will allow this to ISP to remotely themselves.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Not for long as you will be switched on G.INP next few days because G.INP (interleaving) replaced Fast Path.

That looks a bit garbled to me. G.INP largely eliminates interleaving, but may leave some interleaving and FEC correction in place.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 29-Mar-15 22:39:52)

In reply to a post by rarrar:

So those of us using our "own " modems when G.INP was enabled now find that the supplied ECI modem (sitting on the shelf as the "official spare" ) is of no use as a backup !

Correct. It's now a doorstop if your line has G.inp enabled on it.

From recent posts, it does look as though a few of the VDSL2 routers people have bought are getting G.INP upgrades if they go hunting.

I've been warning about this sort of problem since people started buying the Fritz box (7390?), which IIRC was the first that was made to work.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 29-Mar-15 23:20:11)

Morning folks, sorry for more questions...

Other than on the install day, my ECI modem has been connected for almost 12 months now (I also have a HG612 from our previous house).

If G.INP has been enabled on our cabinet and I am still connected ok with the ECI modem with what appears to be interleave enabled (My latency has risen and my download speed has dropped) does it mean my ECI modem has been upgraded to accept G.INP?

If G.INP has been enabled, isn't it supposed to improve things and not make them worse?

Should I leave the ECI modem connected for a while longer (Been two weeks today) or try my HG612 and update its firmware to the 08 version?

It means your ECI modem has not been upgraded, but the cabinet has. There is a discussion in another thread about how to get the ECI upgraded, but I'm using an iPad in bed and finding it for you would be a pain that way.

I'd put the HG612 on, but see the seansmit17 thread I replied to a few minutes ago. That needs the latest update if you have an older one.

In reply to a post by D_an_W:

Morning folks, sorry for more questions...

Other than on the install day, my ECI modem has been connected for almost 12 months now (I also have a HG612 from our previous house).

If G.INP has been enabled on our cabinet and I am still connected ok with the ECI modem with what appears to be interleave enabled (My latency has risen and my download speed has dropped) does it mean my ECI modem has been upgraded to accept G.INP?

If G.INP has been enabled, isn't it supposed to improve things and not make them worse?

Should I leave the ECI modem connected for a while longer (Been two weeks today) or try my HG612 and update its firmware to the 08 version?

exactly the same has happened to me..there are alot of posts on the bt forum stating this,but most are getting fobbed off with"its crosstalk/line fault"etc even bt dont have a clue

Can someone just confirm the interleaving status on a g.inp enabled line.

I am now syncing at 79999/20000 and have g.inp enabled and also interleaving on the line - this appears to be affecting upload speeds. Will this come off after a few days/weeks or should interleaving be on all the time now.

Setup is a Huawei modem flashed -> BT Homehub 5

Does the router need to be G.INP compatible? My HG612 seems to be G.INP enabled now but I prefer using my old 7800N over the 8800NL.

I know Billion routers have PhyR, does this need to be enabled? Is PhyR, vectoring and G.INP the same thing?

We could do with seeing the full stats, for the experts to assess the interleaving. As in

# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 16882 Kbps, Downstream rate = 58604 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 16961 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.8 5.8
Attn(dB): 19.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.6 7.5
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 -6
B: 178 227
M: 1 1
T: 0 0
R: 10 14
S: 0.0950 0.4276
L: 15922 4528
D: 16 4
I: 189 242
N: 189 242
Q: 16 4
V: 2 0
RxQueue: 33 27
TxQueue: 11 9
G.INP Framing: 18 18
G.INP lookback: 11 9
RRC bits: 24 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 58
B: 0 0
M: 2 2
T: 2 2
R: 16 16
S: 8.0000 16.0000
L: 32 16
D: 1 1
I: 32 32
N: 32 32
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 505927104 1144245
RSCorr: 6084 102
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 750754 753697
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 6005540 3014788
RSCorr: 0 3
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 3332 20
rtx_c: 57 252
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 31
minEFTR: 60009 16953
errFreeBits: 11034003 117174572

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1391368217 0
Data Cells: 2191833 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 52 52
AS: 12059

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 44.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 0.00
OR: 0.01 0.01
AgR: 60083.56 16997.80

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 4.00
INPRein: 2.00 4.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 16.06
OR: 63.75 31.87
AgR: 63.75 31.87

Bitswap: 9233/9233 252/252

Mine has a small amount, but before it had very high interleaving levels.

When I was affected my Interleaving levels went very high and then when I flashed more recent firmware they dropped to low levels.

Actually my Interleaving & INP levels where very high but didn't actually match the levels at which they where showing.

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 47890 Kbps, Downstream rate = 92308 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.2 24.6
Attn(dB): 10.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 7.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 -6
B: 130 97
M: 1 1
T: 0 0
R: 8 8
S: 0.0518 0.1554
L: 21468 5457
D: 16 8
I: 139 106
N: 139 106
Q: 16 8
V: 14 2
RxQueue: 57 39
TxQueue: 19 13
G.INP Framing: 18 18
G.INP lookback: 19 13
RRC bits: 24 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 58
B: 0 0
M: 2 2
T: 2 2
R: 16 16
S: 5.3333 16.0000
L: 48 16
D: 3 1
I: 32 32
N: 32 32
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2014920640 2108717
RSCorr: 7963 815
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 15535252 916004
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 186422288 2254731
RSCorr: 1 7
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 100346 107
rtx_c: 734 298
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 5 14
minEFTR: 79999 19997
errFreeBits: 304471920 102145351

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 4029929309 0
Data Cells: 862077685 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 318 318
AS: 249538

Bearer 0
INP: 46.00 47.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 0.00
OR: 0.01 0.01
AgR: 80614.82 20102.08

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 4.00
INPRein: 4.00 4.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 16.06
OR: 95.62 31.87
AgR: 95.62 31.87

Bitswap: 159976/159976 369/369

Total time = 1 days 21 hours 24 min 16 sec
FEC: 7963 815
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 318 318
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 16 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 1 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 21 hours 24 min 16 sec
FEC: 2337 249
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 3601 247
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 2 days 21 hours 18 min 57 sec
FEC: 7963 815
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#

I already had the latest one running - the same as I just flashed into the new HG612. G.INP was not implemented - it was genuine heavy interleaving. I know what caused it . Somewhere a couple of weeks back I think I have a stats post showing it.

This all blew up when the G.INP went on. AIUI they got a connection from me straight afterwards, then it dropped and never came back.

Hmmm OK!

Full sync in both directions, but a very odd 3ms delay on Bearer 1 downstream. Interleaving similar to mine but a different pattern for the matrix - a different type of setting altogether, though both are small.

Have to wait for the experts.

What is wrong with the upload speed? Is download OK? I can't test mine yet because of the Current line speed.

My Hg612 went from 16ms to 32ms on the 21St of this month on an older unlocked FW.

I want to thank you guys for talking about this as I then proceed to update my FW to the latest and now my ping's are back to 16ms

Thanks fellas.

Thank you for your feedback, It is key to proving what the issue is and will contribute towards a wider fix for everybody

Cheers mlmclaren

My line stat's before G.inp 16ms ping @ 59mb

Then I had the line G.inp enabled older FW stat's 32ms ping @ 49mb

Now with G.inp enabled and the latest unlocked FW my stats are 16ms ping @ 66mb

Edited by TiMeTraVeLeR (Tue 31-Mar-15 09:54:01)

me and your connections nearly identical

Mine was 10ms to 27ms then back to 10ms & 61mb to 55mb and then back to 66mb

I have seen an increase in speed since G.inp might have been the time of day being an influence but its quite a hefty one of 7mb actual download speeds, as those figures are actual dl bandwidth not sync.

It has benefited customers with more impacted lines,

I've seen some reporting 10mb increases.. mine was only 4-5mb but was enough to push my connection a little further than before..

Fingers crossed it will be a reliable system for us.

Waiting on full reply, but indications so far are those with an ECI cab have not had G.INP rolled out to them yet.

thats correct although there is a trial ongoing, its planned for rollout Q1 of 2015, (financial year).

Yes, You have G.INP active.

This means that re-transmission is configured on bearer 0 - the main data channel. It also has very small amounts of FEC and interleaving enabled, but these impact your line at much lower levels than the old-style FEC and interleaving.

My previous calculations are that FEC (alongside G.INP) uses about 5% of bandwidth (rather than 20%+), and latency is increased by 0.2ms

I haven't fully figured out what bearer 1 is used for (I used to think it was for re-transmission of packets, when needed, but I'm less sure now); however, it is very low volume (about 0.1Mbps), and has very high FEC protection on every line. Some lines also apply interleaving to this portion - yours does, as does mine.

In fact, your G.INP settings entirely match mine - a line running at 80/20 (attainable 101/33) with 50 ES's per day before activation, now running at 80/20 (attainable 107/35) with 0 ES's per day afterwards.

The one way that your line looks different is that your retransmit counters are higher.

On the face of it, G.INP isn't affecting your line, and doesn't look to be giving you upstream problems. certainly you aren't seeing any errors upstream - so all packets should be getting through fine.

BUT...

I see that your modem is predicting a max attainable speed upstream of 48Mbps. That is huge.

For comparison, my line (with 8.4dB attenuation downstream) is 107/35. Yours, with 10.6dB attenuation, is 92/48.

One reason could be your upstream power level. Mine reads -8.2dBm, while yours reads 7.8dBm. Being close to the cabinet, upstream power should be reduced to prevent our lines from interfering with those lines further away - a process known as upstream power backoff. However, it doesn't look like your line is doing this ... I wonder why?

The high power level would give you inflated SNR levels, so would make the modem think that a high upstream speed was possible.

Perhaps this, ultimately, is leading to upstream problems that aren't visible through the stats.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

- it was genuine heavy interleaving. I know what caused it . Somewhere a couple of weeks back I think I have a stats post showing it.

Do tell ... I must have entirely missed it back then!

Cheers WWWombat, have requested a line profile reset via the BTCare webform. Hoping that sorts it and reduces ping times.

PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.103): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=0 ttl=51 time=27.493 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=30.831 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=2 ttl=51 time=29.495 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=3 ttl=51 time=25.279 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=4 ttl=51 time=21.972 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=5 ttl=51 time=26.370 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=6 ttl=51 time=31.573 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=7 ttl=51 time=22.269 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.246.103: icmp_seq=8 ttl=51 time=21.983 ms