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Hi guys,
I hope you don't mind me posting after some issues last month.
I think a fault is starting to develop on my line. I'm still uploading to MDWS under the ID WilliamG. My line was in the new downstream SNR trial and at one point it was at 3 dB, then it came out of the trial and now it's back in it again. What's bizzare is that when the downstream SNR margin was at 6 dB, it became very erratic and jittery. I can't hear any noise on the QLN test, but due to a sudden increase in both G-INP Retransmit Tx's and FEC's, I feel something's not right.
Does anyone have any ideas? I've attached a link to help.
https://i.gyazo.com/037b13819d7ea21563d90b15afd777dd...
Thanks,
William
Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Feb-17 15:25:17)
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You've had 26 ES in a week. SNRM is steady. Hlog looks clean.
Remember G-INP Retransmit Tx's and FEC's are errors that corrected before they happen.
I regularly had 10,000 to 50,000 FEC's per minute. It's nothing to worry about.
Your upstream appears quite noisy. You keep having upstream G.INP reapplied, but it's doing it's job well. From roughly 200-250 ES per day on the upstream, G.INP has reduced that to 0.
Your line looks pretty good to me.
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Hi John,
Thanks for your reply.
I don't understand how the downstream SNR margin looks steady?! It's far from it comparing it to most other VDSL lines.
Yes, I noticed that the Hlog is clean, hence why I was surprised the downstream SNR margin was going up and down all the time. But, if that's steady then maybe I have nothing to worry about.
Cheers,
William
Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Feb-17 16:13:14)
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The downstream SNR is steady.
A line with issues, known as a flappy line, will have the SNR at 6db and then it suddenly drops drastically to say 1db. This can result in a dropped connection.
Your SNR varies around 1db, it does not drop 3db or 5db at once. Overall the line looks better than mine.
Here is a problematic line:
http://www.abar.co.uk/dsl/snr.png
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Understood, however the downstream SNR margin used to only vary around 0.1 - 0.3 dB, but now it's constantly more, so something must've changed.
Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Feb-17 16:53:59)
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very odd whatever is causing this started on the 3rd of february at 3pm any bt engineers working at your cabinet around that time
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I don't know, but it was very windy and several tree branches rub against the line. My line's had issues in the past when it was on ADSL due to this.
Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Feb-17 18:04:02)
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I would try leaving the modem off overnight. It's helped with oscillating SNRM with other lines in the past, ones much worse than yours. It's not a huge movement in SNRM and could be caused by a variety of reasons. A buggy modem from a crosstalker could cause this by constantly resyncing. Unlikely to be trees I wouldn't expect it to be so consistent.
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That's an idea, but my line's in the downstream SNR margin trial so I can't turn it off. LOL.
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The downstream SNR margin has stopped being very erratic and jittery!
Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Feb-17 16:26:35)
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I can now hear occasional high pitched noises on the QLN test, should I be worried? I've noticed downstream CRC's are starting to be picked up too.
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Keep checking a couple of times a day or so. Also check the noise margins with it and without. Preferably make a note of the times, particularly by checking a few times over an hour to get an approximate end time.
The QLT should be silent except occasionally you may get the faintest of faint rustling sounds. Ideally you get a cheap corded phone as well for the test and disconnect any DECT ones.
A later step with a corded phone is to check using the test socket.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Ok, will do. Thanks, Bob.
There has always been a constant but distant noise on the QLN test, I've only noticed slightly more significant noise on it yesterday and the SNR margin's have remained stable.
What's more concerning is the fact that line protection has been working a lot harder than normal all night, significantly higher than previous days.
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 07:37:47)
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This doesn't look good... Especially very recently.
https://i.gyazo.com/c42289c26295d00a0ad79dfaad6194e5...
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 09:58:04)
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Until it presents itself as an issue such as dropping connection, or low throughput, I wouldn't sweat it.
There's no point in obsessing. Nothing will happen until a fault manifests. Openreach won't investigate until you have an actual fault.
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Do you think a fault is starting to manifest itself though?
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Until it presents itself as an issue such as dropping connection, or low throughput, I wouldn't sweat it.
There's no point in obsessing. Nothing will happen until a fault manifests. Openreach won't investigate until you have an actual fault.
MDWS has a lot to answer for as far as those prone to fixate go.
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Sorry, I'm not fixating. What an irrelevant comment. I'm just simply posting updates as things evolve.
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You're looking for a fault which isn't there though. Leave it alone until you notice a problem with the connection.
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Yes, a fault is developing, it's quite obvious... But, fair enough.
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 10:22:01)
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No, you THINK a fault is developing because you have a slightly fluctuating noise margin and a few errors.
No loss of sync or noticable affect on throughput = no fault.
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I know a fault is developing from past experience. Just curious, did you read what I said that noise is audible on the QLN test? Proves it. 
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 10:59:29)
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I'm not familiar with that particular graph system. I assume one line is downstream noise margin and one upstream. The red looks like normal overnight behaviour until approximately 10am when a noise source started. I don't understand why the green is often behaving differently but notice an earlier start to the decline followed by a small sudden dip at the same time as the red 10am one.
Does that time suggest anything to you?
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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The call your phone provider and raise a noisy line fault and request a visit from a telephony engineer
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Not at all, nothing is causing this internally as everything's been checked.
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It's not bad enough to start thinking about calling our friend out. Though, what I can't understand is that when the downstream SNR margin was lower there was less noise than there is now!
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 12:08:03)
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What are the two colours please?
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Oh, sorry. The downstream SNR margin is red and the upstream SNR margin is green.
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that noise is audible on the QLN test?
Be aware that a telephony "quiet line" test isn't normally abbreviated to QLN. The abbreviation usually goes with the modem's measurements prior to sync, and the graph that we can create from it.
The difference is that one applies to the audible spectrum, and the other applies to every bit of spectrum apart from the audible bit. On the first, you expect no noise. On the other, you expect noise.
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Sorry, that's what I meant.
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No, you THINK a fault is developing because you have a slightly fluctuating noise margin and a few errors.
No loss of sync or noticable affect on throughput = no fault.
Actually, the changes in the last day (aside from the ongoing 3dB trial) do point at something suspicious happening. There is a huge increase in FECs and a huge increase in retransmission counts, which have increased further with today's switch from 4dB to 3dB.
Error protection has been working extra-hard on that line in the last day.
https://s30.postimg.org/l7y42l1hd/William3db_And_Odd...
But, while something is happening under the hood, there is little extra evidence appearing at CRC, ES or LEFTRS level. There's no impact to the service.
(I am impressed, actually, at just how little is getting through)
Of note to people watching the 3dB trial: Whatever has happened over the last few days didn't happen on the first run through the 6-5-4-3dB steps. And DLM seems to have allowed the 3dB step to happen anyway.
@william:
On the main part, though, @lee111s is right - it isn't really a fault until it becomes an actionable fault. Up until that point, it really only classes as "normal behaviour that DLM is designed to cope with".
On the data side, you are a long way from an actionable fault. Your speed needs to drop hugely to get there.
However, on the telephony side, you already have an actionable fault. If you can hear things on the line, then it is something your telephony provider should react too. At a minimum, they will run some copper tests. (Note, as ever, it is important not to confuse them by mentioning any broadband problems at the same time).
I had this kind of issue a couple of weeks ago. Plusnet (my ISP and telephony supplier) have a webpage that triggers the line test. The webpage ran the test, but failed to tell me the result. However, behind the scenes, it had logged a fault with Openreach, and organised a fix. Someone was out fixing that a day later, with no need for an appointment.
That issue caused noisy crackles on the line. Nothing faint or subtle about them. But they didn't affect broadband. I expected an E-side problem. Imagine my surprise when, after chatting to the engineer, the issue was on the D-side.
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QLT? Unless that also means something else!
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Very interesting. Thanks for explaining.
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Hi
My line did this, went from almost a flat line to looking like an ECG graph, but not varying enough to cause any resyncs or problems.
It coincided with BT Openreach digging up a trench next to the cab and running a generator for the traffic lights (or so it seemed to me), so went back to normal when they finished.
The point is VDSL is a hack to get data over wire not designed to carry data, so it's flaky and susceptible to all sorts of noise which can come from anywhere. This is precisely why we have a margin, so that things like this the line can just ride across.
Not much you can do about it, and expect things to change over time with the charts and how your line behaves, its the nature of the beast.
Regards
Phil
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Ah, I see. There's no work going on near the cabinet. I will keep monitoring without getting too fixated on it, honestly I find this really interesting.
Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Feb-17 16:57:38)
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Have a read of this page, right to the end. There's quite a lot needs updating on the site but most of the principles are still the same.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Do you think a fault is starting to manifest itself though? Personally I think not, I feel something has just changed externally, whatever that is, it is not service affecting and hence stop focusing on it.
My line goes through a lot worse variations, but I am in London with a lot of external factors changing.
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Ok.
Well, to say there are whistles on the quiet line test, I think something's up.
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So report it as a noisy line fault.
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But, surely if it's not causing any issues with the connection, then nothing can be done?
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If you have a noisy line, I don't see why you wouldn't report it as a noisy line fault. Regardless of what impact it may or may not be having on your xDSL connection, the line should be silent, or as damn near to it.
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Right, bear in mind I do have to put my ear to the phone to hear this, you can't hear it from a distance, so maybe I'll wait. It does seem to be louder than previously though.
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why dont you just ring up and ask them if there are any issues present to them? they can test if from their end, it would put this to bed.
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Sorry, if you have a problem with me trying to investigate this then PM me, don't spoil the thread. It's a rather offensive post too.
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I agree with him though.
You've identified something that's not right with you're line but you're not willingn to get it investigated, yet you're obsessing with non service affecting stats..
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its offensive? in what aspect mate, im telling you the best way for it to be sorted... its no good coming here to tell us whats going on, to then not take the info we give and use it.
all you need to do is make a 5-10 min phone call to ask for your line to be tested for any errors.
and then you will know.
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Well, you were implying that this thread shouldn't continue, which is slightly rude.
I'm talking to BT live chat, I've asked them to complete a GEA test.
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No problems found.
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You've identified something that's not right with you're line but you're not willing to get it investigated, yet you're obsessing with non service affecting stats..
What the man said.
Or the other option, there is nowt wrong with any of it at all and he just wants to geek out on stats.
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There is something wrong, please don't assume something isn't wrong when you don't know the facts...
Please stop talking like this, it's incredibly rude and disrespectful. Sigh.
Oh, so now I've found out you're an Openreach engineer, which makes this more strange. So, you're saying that because there's noise on my line, there's nothing wrong?! What?
Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Feb-17 20:46:48)
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I'm talking to BT live chat, I've asked them to complete a GEA test. No problems found.
That's not unusual for some issues. The tester can't detect everything ... not until it develops far enough to be detectable. And, of course, some faults are intermittent, and can't be detected until one of those fortuitous moments where the fault exists, you were paying attention, and got a test run.
If you get a "no fault found" result, then wait until it gets a little worse (audibly) and try getting the test run again.
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Well, thanks for the constructive response, WWWombat. At least someone here can talk sense instead of being biased.
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who an openreach engineer?
usually they can pick a fault up, i rang today and was told there is an external fault in my area. which should hopefully be sorted tomorrow.
nobody is being biased, you came here, asked a question, got an answer and then started being rude about it.
Edited by arronlowley (Fri 10-Feb-17 21:17:59)
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Zarjaz.
I'm not being rude about it! I think you'll find you're the one being rude for trying to shut down my thread! How disrespectful! Anyway, I'm sticking to PM's with WWWombat as he seems the only who wants to help.
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"Makes this more strange"
How ? This is a public forum, people can reply and offer an opinion.
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I never said you couldn't...
It's just that because you're an Openreach engineer, I'd expect you to know that my line has some kind of interference/fault on it, so was shocked when you said nothing is wrong with it.
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You are heading down a rabbit hole that is turning into something that looks almost like you are teasing people into attacking you.
It is possible that this is not your intent, but after a couple of decades on online life one gets a feeling for these things.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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How am I teasing people? Why would I want people to attack me? Exactly, this is not my intent.
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Ive asked them to complete a GEA test.
Why?
You don't have a GEA fault. You have a noise issue on your PSTN service.
Either report a noisy line fault, or, just forget about it and use the internet connection for it's intended purpose. Rather than trying to quantify an issue an issue that doesn't exist all because a few stats aren't perfect. DLM seems to be doing its job and dealing with any "issues" your DSL connection appears to have.
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The way some of your responses have been is how you teasing people into an escalating batter.
You don't have to accept peoples advice but you should expect it if you post on a forum and some of it may not fit with your viewpoint. The way to navigating without getting into what looks like about to become a slanging match is to accept the advice in the manner of help that it was intended and not rail back against it.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Ok, thanks for explaining. I asked for a GEA test because that's the only test they can do remotely.
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Understood. But, that's not my problem if they wish to offer advice that isn't of my interest is it? That's how I've dealt with the advice. You've just taken this the wrong way which is easily done over the internet.
Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Feb-17 22:03:55)
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If I've taken it the wrong way, so have you and a number of others.
/END OF
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Go on then, shoot the messenger! Haha!
Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Feb-17 22:28:28)
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Not for noisy PSTN it isn't.
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I would just quit this forum William. It seems to be full of people who like to b1tch, bait & troll.
Edited by deleted (Fri 10-Feb-17 23:16:13)
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Or speak the truth from real world experience.
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Well that's a great start for someone accusing many long-standing and very helpful and knowledgeable posters of baiting and trolling. Profile for spammer
Title newbie
Total Posts 1
Registered on Fri 10-Feb-17 23:11:49 Verreeee interestinggg.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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As has been said, for audible noise on the line it is a PSTN test needed. A GEA test is specific to FTTx, possibly not even ADS2+ as that is WBC not GEA.
I do suggest you calm down a little though. You've been sent down a wrong track by the people who arranged the GEA test. But we don't know what problem you were reporting in that conversation. You are now really getting up the noses of several people I hugely respect for their knowledge and helpfulness, and you seem to be doing it simply because they are pointing out you are on the wrong track.
You certainly do not at the moment have a broadband fault. You may have a PSTN or line fault developing that could impact your broadband in the future, but it is too recent and affecting broadband too insignificantly to trigger any ISP's in-depth response.
We agreed long ago what you need to do in terms of monitoring the broadband aspects of line itself. We now have the position where you also need to check for this whine on the line now and then.
That's all you can do for now. None of us on standard contracts are paying for preventative maintenance. If you find your car exhaust sounds a bit noisier than it used to, the dealer you bought it from isn't going to be particularly interested beyond sticking it up on a ramp for a minute and checking for holes.
You haven't got any holes on your broadband.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Not shooting anyone, just trying to intervene to say that you've had what appears to be reasonable advice, you are free to ignore it, but not get be all in peoples faces when ignoring it.
Broadband (even FTTP) is not a world of certainties as so many transient effects can affect signals that even with the level of monitoring you have by the time you've noticed a change a lot of the diagnostic information is gone.
If you feel your provider is ignoring actual faults, then its time to move at whatever cost to one that will send out engineers on request, but be prepared to pay for those when they find the service is within the defined parameters.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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escalating batter.
Love it, the batter gets worse too.
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Understood.
I'd just like to say something.
I was totally out of line last night, I'm not sure why, but things started to get on top of me and instead of coping with them individually, I took out my anger and frustration on several members. This wasn't intended, so I apologise.
I hope I haven't offended anyone and I understand that many users here are looked up to and have a very good knowledge in DSL. So, for me to start telling them that they're wrong was also, very wrong, so I offer another apology to them.
I hope that everyone who's been involved in this thread is happy for me to continue investigating/asking for advice on my line.
I understand that the broadband side of my line is fine, but that it does have a low scale PSTN fault which could, potentially in the future, develop enough to start impacting the broadband, but currently it is only affecting the line in terms of line protection having to work harder.
Thank you.
Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Feb-17 15:31:56)
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I just wanted to ask for a GEA test just incase. Please could you explain how you can tell there's a noisy PSTN fault?
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I just wanted to ask for a GEA test just incase. Please could you explain how you can tell there's a noisy PSTN fault? The whine on the line you reported . You can't hear broadband noise, it is outside the human hearing range.
Sometimes if there is audible noise there is also broadband-frequency noise, which is why reporting a phone line fault rather than a broadband one can often cure both. But from your stats there is nothing significant enough for a GEA test to raise any concerns.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Ok, thanks for your explanation, Bob.
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no offence taken, end of the day, faulty internet is one of the worst things possible, ive been having a few issues myself.
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I think in the scale of life's possible and frequently occurring traumas, faulty internet comes very close to the bottom of the scale   .
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Well said Bob, heartily agree.
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Just want to check you're alright, hope I didn't upset you.
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Looks like something's changing, more downstream CRC errors are occurring now, but still not enough to cause issues.
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More downstream CRC errors are occuring, it also seems like G.INP retransmission is close to it's limit now, so cannot see my line being a working line for much longer.
Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Feb-17 18:40:30)
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I'd have thought you would have a line engineer visit due soon?
Or didn't you report the noisy line?
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Not yet, would like to see this fault properly manifest itself before reporting for my own interest.
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Never heard of the saying, prevention is better than cure?
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Well, the only reason I got into DSL was because of the previous faults on my ADSL line. Faults are what make this hobbie interesting! 
Edited by deleted (Tue 14-Feb-17 18:56:06)
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Woah! Off we go! 
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Line dropping out. LOL.
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Ok, not sure what just happened...
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Not entirely a surprise. Even with only logging at 60 second intervals, MDWS still caught SNRM values of below 1dB.
Something around 13:25 triggered a change to the noise behaviour, so a large chunk of FECs became a large chunk of retransmissions.
Then, from 20:00, 2 hours of wildness. Huge variation in downstream SNRM (mainly in D2), and large volumes of FECs, retransmissions, CRCs and ESs.
Not yet, would like to see this fault properly manifest itself before reporting for my own interest.
Around 1700 ESs from around 4000 CRCs, from previous numbers of virtually zero ... is the point I'd consider doing something.
There is one thing of interest that might cause you to pause ... and that is to discover whether the 1700 ES count will cause DLM to intervene or not, and what it will do to your line.
But I wouldn't wait beyond around 2pm tomorrow.
Its still best to approach it from the perspective of a voice fault, though, with noise on the line.
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Thanks, WWWombat.
DLM hasn't taken any action yet which is slightly surprising.
There are more downstream CRC errors since 00:00 today than yesterday suggesting that whatever is causing the interference has made it worse. If DLM does make intervention, I will report a fault.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 07:27:33)
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Prevention > Cure
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Ok. Moving on...
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So, did the audible noise on the phone line get worse when the broadband started disconnecting? If it did and you still have noise then log a phone fault. If you don't want to do that then little point in telling us when it goes down.
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It did increase but not enough to warrant reporting a fault. Guys, I don't want to be a PITA, but I want to see this fault evolve for my own understanding. It is my connection and yes of course if the fault starts to become worse or more frequent. Thanks.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 10:45:17)
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If DLM bands the line because of the problems and you only report a phone fault then you may end up with the fault cleared and banding stuck for good. Barring more wizardry , which may not work next time.
I would get it sorted ASAP.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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I know this may seem strange, but I find watching a fault develop quite interesting and in no way am I ignoring your advice, I thank you very much for it.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 14:36:02)
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So my assumption is that you don't actually want any advice or information from people here and just want to share your experience? Personally I think it is mad - I don't sit there with a red light on my car dashboard waiting to see what blows up, I go to the garage and get it fixed. Presumably you are fine with the fact that once the fault does fully develop you might be without Internet for a week waiting for an engineer to arrive?
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That's a very wrong assumption. Please read my previous post.
I am going to report the fault today if DLM decides to make changes to my line.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 11:34:12)
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That's a very wrong assumption. Please read my previous post.
I am going to report the fault today if DLM decides to make changes to my line.
Perhaps. But, your responses to posters saying you want to see how it develops rather than getting it fixed were certainly heading down that route. Even now you are only going to report it if it gets worse despite the fact you say you have a notable fault. If that's what you want to do then fine but it suggests anything we advise is a waste of time as you want to see the fault itself rather than get it fixed.
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I'm struggling to understand why you're not reading my posts. You don't have to give advice...
I have to admit, I'm slightly hesitant to report a fault as BT will tell me to check everything and I don't want to have to go through that as I just want to report a fault. Is there a way I can just report the fault?
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 11:42:13)
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We are happy to provide advice but it is frustrating if the person doesn't want it. Knowing whether someone is just here to share or actually wants help gives us all the ability to treat posts in the right way - sometimes people come on just to vent and aren't after a fix.
As far as reporting faults you will need to go through the tests they ask for - this is so they can work out what the most likely cause of the fault is in order to provide the right sort of resource to fix it. In some cases it may be something that can be done remotely with no engineer visit at all but in others it could be a voice fault that requires a standard BT engineer or it could be a broadband fault that requires someone with a different set of training or it could be highly complex that needs a specialist. Without going through their script of tests they could send the wrong resource and therefore either make the fault worse or prolong the amount of time a fix takes.
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Well yes you can report the fault and just tell them you have checked everything your end, so long as you are sure all is ok with your kit. TBH I can see why you want to see how this develops, but assuming you just have a duff joint somewhere that is causing a noisy line, you cannot then assume that all poor joints on all lines would have the same effect, there are too many variables like where the fault is and how long the line is to name but two. I would report the voice fault, get that fixed and then worry about BB
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Ok, thanks. I'm talking to BT via live chat now. I'll update you when I have an Openreach engineer visit booked.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 12:47:44)
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Got an Openreach engineer booked for the 08:00 - 13:00 slot on Friday.
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Phone or broadband?
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 54999/14466Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Phone.
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I'm starting to doubt if I should've done it as downstream CRC's are still fairly infrequent and seen as the downstream SNR margin is set to 3 dB, maybe it's not so bad?! I don't know what to do now.
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You have a noisy line. You have an engineer coming for a noisy line fault.
Ignore everything else.
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Ok, thanks. Fingers crossed.
If something similar to what happened last night doesn't occur tonight, should I cancel the Openreach engineer visit?
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 17:40:07)
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No, as the engineer who is coming has nothing to with broadband.
You have a noisy line, and he's coming to see about that.
Nothing you can see from your stats should change that.
Once the noisy line is fixed, it will likely improve the DSL side of things.
The phone should be silent. Even if you don't have a single error on the line it's worth having the noisy line repaired.
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Ok, thanks. There is still only low amounts of noise that I can only just hear, so not sure if the Openreach engineer would think it was noisy enough to be typical of a fault or not.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 18:25:32)
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No.
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Only one way to find out.
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Well, the issue hasn't reappeared and there's no noise on the line, so I'm going to cancel the Openreach engineer visit.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 20:14:40)
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How can a noise be silent?
There's either noise or there isn't.
Edited to add - Nice edit.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 20:57:40)
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Ok, thanks. Fingers crossed.
If something similar to what happened last night doesn't occur tonight, should I cancel the Openreach engineer visit? I do wonder why you bothered asking.
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Seriously?
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 21:00:03)
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Well, the only reason I got into DSL was because of the previous faults on my ADSL line. Faults are what make this hobbie interesting!
I'm not entirely sure this alongside intentionally getting your own line banded to see what DLM does constitutes a hobby. There are a lot of resources online, not least the specifications of xDSL, that are far more interesting than obsessing over MDWS, and waiting for things to go wrong. This isn't going to teach you much about anything beyond that twisted pair can break and when it does it can affect both broadband and narrowband.
What's far more interesting than this is understanding the underlying technologies behind xDSL and how they fit together, not that impairments at layer 1 cause issues - of course they do.
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I don't agree.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 22:21:22)
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Who'd have thought.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 22:27:25)
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can understand the op pulling out of a bt visit as it seems the oddity is random and if the engineer arrived on friday and can't see or find a fault on the line is will be passed as no fault found, it may take up to 10 visits to finally see the fault when it becomes very noticeable on their JDSU unit.
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Exactly. But, seriously guys please stop the attacking, I really hate it and am getting sick of it. I'm only sharing my thoughts and reporting what's going on with my line, I don't want this, I just want to enjoy my experience on this forum. I've already had to leave for a while a short time ago because of this and I'm close to doing it again. So, please stop, it would be greatly appreciated.
It seems that several members on here have issues with me and their posts are sometimes childish and disrespectful. I have Aspergers, I don't use this as an excuse but it does have an impact on the way I try and describe things and the way it affects my rationality.
Thanks for understanding.
Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Feb-17 22:38:05)
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Well, the issue hasn't reappeared and there's no noise on the line, so I'm going to cancel the Openreach engineer visit.
Shame. I'm not sure I'd be cancelling an appointment because an unpredictable intermittent fault proved itself to be ... well, unpredictable and intermittent. But if the audible noise had been ever-present for a few days, and has suddenly gone again, perhaps that a natural choice.
How was the "BT chat" person persuaded to book an engineer in the first place? Did they just believe you about the noise? Or run some tests on the line?
If the latter did they send you a copy of the results?
If so, can we see it?
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Not sure how it's a shame really. I was at risk of being charged £130 because there was little noise on the phone. Yes, they just believed me. They ran a test but didn't send any results.
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As you say the noise has gone and they have told you they may charge £130 if no fault found then cancelling may be the best bet.
The reason people are a little confused is that your posts suggest you would rather see a serious fault develop than get one fixed. When you ask if the stats you have are an issue and people advised they weren't then you carried on seeming to expect a different answer. We are all generally posting to help people - but if you ignore all the advice that people provide and argue against it then people will start getting wound up. It isn't personal but it does make us feel like we are wasting our time when all we are looking to do is provide the best advice we can based on the information provided.
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I think he means its a shame that your voice fault has gone as its often much easier to demonstrate a voice fault than a broadband one. If you have a broadband fault that also manifests itself as a voice fault (like you may have) then fixing the voice fault often resolves the broadband fault.
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Ok, thanks guys. I'm sorry if I messed any of you around, that wasn't my intention.
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A DLM resync has increased the downstream SNR margin to 4 dB, hardly surprising after recent issues.
Edited by deleted (Thu 16-Feb-17 12:25:23)
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Confusing line conditions right now, lots of retransmissions but varying in intensity throughout the day.
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Can I suggest something from the moderator view point...
A post every time something happens to your stats does nothing more than flood the forum with posts of little value to offers and significantly increases the risk that when you want some help people may have stopped reading your posts.
Contribution and significant changes are welcome but going OTT will annoy many people.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Got to agree with MrSaffron - it's all getting a little yawn worthy now 
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Yes it is a bit like banging your head against a brick wall, nice when you stop lol
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I think he means its a shame that your voice fault has gone as its often much easier to demonstrate a voice fault than a broadband one. If you have a broadband fault that also manifests itself as a voice fault (like you may have) then fixing the voice fault often resolves the broadband fault.
This. ^^^^
Audible noise on the line is so much harder for BT to report back as "no fault found", please pay £130. They might not find the fault, but they can hardly deny it exists.
Even better if it is reported via voice call, to support staff who can hear it too, and make a note of it. That way, even if the noise has disappeared before the engineer arrives, it is still on record, and hard to charge for.
Chasing intermittent, broadband-only, problems can be a pain - especially with that £130 threat hanging over your head. Being able to blame it on a voice fault is so much better.
It is most definitely a shame that the voice symptoms went away.
Plus...
In some of these intermittent cases, even getting support staff to agree to send an engineer can be like gold dust.
In these cases, a cancelled appointment can be a spurned opportunity. Though I understand the reasoning in this case.
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Sigh.
Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Feb-17 16:45:57)
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Don't assume that PM is a satisfactory alternative.
If the problem is excessive posts for relatively small changes to the line, then an individual won't welcome becoming the exclusive recipient of those PMs. Indeed, because a PM is a more personalised communication, it needs to be treated with even more care and respect. Volumes need to decrease compared to the forum, not increase.
There is a great community benefit to keeping posts on the forum. Partly because you never know just who can offer advice. And where multiple can offer advice, the workload is shared. And partly because you never know who can find the same advice useful again in the future.
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Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley
Edited by deleted (Mon 20-Feb-17 17:04:54)
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Post deleted by WilliamGrimsley
Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Feb-17 17:57:56)
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Is it worth me capping the line rate? I'm slightly concerned about the life of my router due to how much work it's having to do to keep the line stable.
Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Feb-17 17:57:41)
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Post deleted by RobertoS
Edited by RobertoS (Sun 26-Feb-17 17:54:07)
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Fixed.
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Is it worth me capping the line rate? I'm slightly concerned about the life of my router due to how much work it's having to do to keep the line stable.
Not a concern I've ever heard of before.
The usual components that age are the electrolytic capacitors, which can dry out from high temperatures.
Does the box feel hotter?
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Does the box feel hotter? Solved with a Hotter boot.
Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 65258/14193Kbps @ 600m. BQMs - IPv4 & IPv6
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Is it worth me capping the line rate? I'm slightly concerned about the life of my router due to how much work it's having to do to keep the line stable.
No. It's worth you stopping obsessing over your broadband service unless and until there's a problem, as it's creating a whole bunch of work for your mind keeping your psyche stable.
The router has to calculate the checksums for every single superframe and codeword, hundreds of thousands of each per second, that arrives, and is perfectly good at it. The amount of additional work from your line's condition is minimal.
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Yeah, it's always warm.
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Post deleted by MrSaffron
Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Feb-17 18:22:49)
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Are you serious?
I'd say yes.
I'm not obsessing over my broadband service.
Yes you are.... http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4530958-re-...
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Post deleted by MrSaffron
Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Feb-17 18:34:24)
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Post deleted by MrSaffron
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Post removed due to profanity
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Post removed due to quote of a previous post with a profanity in it
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Post was deleted due to violation of the rules on swearing.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Yeah, it's always warm.
So is mine.
But it only matters if it gets significantly hotter than normal. By 10-20 degrees.
"Warm" is unlikely to be an issue.
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Yeah, it's always warm.
So is mine.
But it only matters if it gets significantly hotter than normal. By 10-20 degrees.
"Warm" is unlikely to be an issue.
I don't think modem activity would make any difference to the temperature anyway even if it was running flat out.
The heat from a router is generally the routing SoC, whereas all this VDSL work will be done in the modem component with its own CPU/DSP for that stuff. If it was struggling the sync would drop, that's it.
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