FTTPoD Availability?

Hi,

I was wondering if there's any information on where FTTPoD will be available? I wasn't sure if there's a list of exchanges that it'll be available on , or if it's just "any exchange with FTTC"?

Our exchange (Lochgoilhead - WSLOD) has recently got it's first cabinet live, but on asking FluidData about FTTPoD, they said it's not available, so I was wondering whether this is likely to be a permanent thing, or if there's a chance that it'll get enabled for FTTPoD at a later date.

FTTC, FTTP and FTTPoD all work by cabinet area. Knowing only the exchange doesn't tell us much. This checker will tell you your cabinet number on the line above the estimates table.

Do not use the pure Postcode option. A postcode area can be part-covered by several cabinets, but your premises will be specifically attached to only one.

It is very rare that an address can have a choice of FTTC or FTTP, and is normal that only an address that can get FTTC can get FTTPoD. Some on an FTTC-enabled cabinet but too far from the fibre one to get FTTC can still theoretically get FTTPoD.

In case you aren't aware, the charge by Openreach to wholesalers/retailers if FTTPoD is a minimum of £1100 installation and £1188 about £100pm rental. That's at up to 199 metres from something called an "aggregation point". It goes up by several hundred installation charge for each further 200 metres. Ending up at many thousands.

All subject to survey and additional costs or refusal, then supplier markup, the cost of the backhaul provision, profit margin on that, and Vat added to arrive at your price.

Thanks for the info. So the cabinet on that exchange which is closest to our location (but not the one we're currently on, which is still waiting for power before we can be enabled) is cabinet 3 (a random number from the village that connects to that cab. is 01301703203)

It shows as enabled for FTTC, but it doesn't seem to be open for FTTPoD, thus the question about whether that might be a temporary thing or if we're permanently out of luck.

The circumstance you're describing (on an FTTC cabinet but too far to get VDSL services) pretty much describes our situation at the moment, even once our current cab gets sorted, we're not likely to get much from it as we're about 2km away on line length (wonders of living in a rural area and lines going the long way round fields).

On the cost side, definitely aware that it might be a bit prcey, at the moment we're using 3 line bonded ADSL from A&A which is providing 12/1 and costs ~£300/month in rental, so getting 330/30 would be a major step up and still a lot cheaper than a leased line!

Openreach FTTPoD price list. Dark purple lines are current, light purple historic.

Take one from the first table, and the appropriate one from the second. Bear in mind the distances are from the nearest aggregation point to you, which will be underground with probably either a two or three-lid chamber.

At up to 2km it looks like a minimum installation charge of £6,875 plus all the wholesale and retail profit margins plus Vat on the total. 2000-2999 metres is anybody's guess.

After three years the rental cost drops to standard FTTP prices.

Thanks, yeah I was thinking that as the enabled cab. is actually a lot closer in (probably < 500m straight line) we might get away with a lower banding, but even at that level it could be worth it (running an IT business is getting harder with slow speeds, and leased lines are awfully pricey...)

The big problem I have at the moment is finding out if it's even possible to make an order. I don't know if there's any route to find out whether FTTPoD will be available in the future or if it's possible that it's possible now and FluidData just got an incorrect result from their check...

Any pointers on how I could find that out would be much appreciated

Who knows what might happen in the future, if the BT Wholesale checker is not saying available then very unlikely to be available and nothing saying it will be in the future.

Can we just check something...

When you use https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-g...

Does it come back and say...

"Your area is currently in our plans to be upgraded with Fibre to the Premises (FTTP)"

If so, then that is nothing to do with FoD, but will be native GEA-FTTP and if and when its rolled out will be available at the normal retail type pricing e.g. 18 month contract, prices starting around £45/m and speeds of 38 to 330 Mbps.

In reply to a post by raesene:

Any pointers on how I could find that out would be much appreciated

Keep hassling Fluidone...being a major business ISP they can influence Openreach. Up until January, my area (Inverness) was not FoD enabled. However after constantly pestering Fluidone with leased line & FoD questions, one day Fluidone came back to me with "As a result of our enquiries, Openreach have decided to open up the Inverness area for Fibre On Demand orders". And just like magic, FoD was showing up on the BT/OR checker 24hrs later.

One pre-requisite to get a FTTPoD service is that your exchange where your FTTC cabinet fibre terminates at, must also be able to support FTTP services. Most major/head-end exchanges do also support FTTP but some don't. I imagine this is due to the exchange having the necessary infrastructure already in place to support FTTP/oD services, eg space to put OLTs in, bigger backhaul capacity links (10gb/s instead of 1gb/s links) etc.

ahh thanks for that, I didn't know about that pre-req. , which pretty much seals the deal for "no I will not be able to get this"

We're a small rural exchange, so I very much doubt it'll get enabled for FTTP, and if that's a pre-req. for FTTPoD to be an option, I think that'll rule it out.

I'm not sure what capacity of backhaul they fitted as part of the FTTC rollout, but I do know they had to bring it 5 miles down the hill over the overhead poles

In reply to a post by raesene:

We're a small rural exchange, so I very much doubt it'll get enabled for FTTP, and if that's a pre-req. for FTTPoD to be an option, I think that'll rule it out.

It is likely the FTTx in your exchange area runs back to a larger exchange nearby rather than terminate at your small exchange. In other words, the fibre you describe running 5 miles down the hill is likely not backhaul, but the FTTx itself running back to another exchange.

The fibre headend exchange will almost certainly not be your small one. Small ones get the fibre for their FTTC cabinets routed to larger exchanges possibly miles away precisely because installing all the infrastructure for them in the small one would be uneconomic, and probably there would be insufficient space anyway.

So plough on with the suggested chase-ups .

Oh - and! If you are not the only business in the locality in this position, club together for the requests! That could swing it. Even one or two might.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Apr-17 15:23:12)

Ahh I see thanks, I didn't realise that was how it worked.

Cool, thanks for the information, I'll keep chasing then, we actually have at least 3 IT professionals running companies in the village, so there's some more possible demand there.

(Not replying to @RobertoS specifically; just a general observation)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Bear in mind the distances are from the nearest aggregation point to you, which will be underground with probably either a two or three-lid chamber.

Remember that aggregation nodes aren't in a 1:1 ratio with cabinets.

We don't know what the ratio actually is, but we do have a couple of clues...

1) Assuming a GPON split of 32, An aggregation node can handle 12 splitter nodes or 1536 subscribers. That suggests it can handle the lines from anywhere between 2 large PCPs and more than 10 small PCPs.

2) Over a year ago, we had a hint that the ratio within BDUK was around 6:1. BDUK tends to have dealt with cabinets around half the size of the original rollout, so the ratio might have been 3:1 there.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4460700-re-...

A village with 1,000 homes might merit an ag node. Much smaller than this, and it might not.

The Openreach Accepting Orders PDF says WSLOD has some FTTC and some FTTP but no FTTPoD (FOD in that list). However, especially if there is already some nearby FTTP, it might be that Openreach are prepared to open up FTTPoD in the area if requested by a Communications Provider such as FluidOne. You can only keep chasing.

Ahh that's interesting info., thanks, and encouraging that there's at least mention of FTTP at the exchange. I'll try chasing Openreach/FluidOne with that see if I can get any further.

As I mentioned in another post, there appears to FTTP planned for some postcodes.

yeah I'll have to see if I can find out some more about where they're planning that for. I'd be surprised, but pleasently so, to see standard FTTP around here, but we do have a couple of locations that I guess might warrant it...

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

When you use https://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-g...

That page returns nothing for me for any post code or phone number in either IE or firefox. FF gives a big empty space where something should be, IE doesn't even show the box to put a postcode or number into...

Not a good start - the providers website that won't render/work on 2 major browsers... (No I don't have any others to test)

Just tried

Safari
IE11
Chrome
Firefox

and its working. Which versions you using?

I can add Palemoon x64 & Edge to the list of working browsers.

iPhone 5s Safari and BT Broadband ... works for me

Using IE11 on Windows 10, after entering my phone number and clicking OK I got a small whirling gadget for a few seconds, then it stopped.

I was about to agree with you, but then scrolled down, where the result is there but effectively "hidden" in the blue background. The screen as a whole did not refresh in the way I expected, and you may have expected the same. The results appeared below the visible part of the page.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Using IE11 on Windows 10, after entering my phone number and clicking OK I got a small whirling gadget for a few seconds, then it stopped.

I was about to agree with you, but then scrolled down, where the result is there but effectively "hidden" in the blue background. The screen as a whole did not refresh in the way I expected, and you may have expected the same. The results appeared below the visible part of the page.

No whirling thing - just a big empty space no matter what I put in...

FF - 53.0 x64
IE - 11.0.41 x64

IE doesn't even give me the box to enter a number/postcode, FF at least will.

Screen shots on picpaste

IE Fail
FF Gives me the box
FF After entering a postcode/number

Do you have any ad blockers installed? Wondering if the ad blocker is for some reason blocking some of the page components.

Not as such but there is aggressive network level blocking going on. I've checked the logs & nothing is being blocked or denied.

Just tested with TOR - Same blank page section. (So that rules out any network level blocking etc)

Had a quick check in the console as well - the only thing I see is a POST request to https://api.superfastmaps.co.uk/openreach/1.2/ then nothing gets returned.

I'll have to have a try on a couple of other networks / machines and see if I can reproduce it elsewhere.

Are you still with Zen, as per your forum profile?

Yes

That figures. I have the impression over a year or so that not everything there is perfect over things like this. Nothing major that can really be tied down, just several small things like this.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That figures. I have the impression over a year or so that not everything there is perfect over things like this. Nothing major that can really be tied down, just several small things like this.

In what respect? I've actually had very little trouble with Zen TBH but things have in general gone down hill from the customer side of things - there not like they used to be...

Are you hinting that this issue with page displays may be network related to Zen?

I'm not "hinting" anything, as a hint means the hinter knows .

Shall we say when I looked to move from Plusnet FTTC, having before them been on IDNet FTTC, I had seen sufficient disquieting posts by people with problems, but not like yours, to rule Zen out. Problems that I had seen sorted by other ISPs.

As you seem to be the only person I recall ever to have a problem with that checker except when it is down for many at the same time, it is either something specific to your setup, or something in Zen's network blocking as you wondered earlier. Not necessarily deliberately by them, but maybe an unintended consequence of something else they have in their system. I accept you think you have shown it isn't a block by them, but I'm not familiar with TOR so I have no idea if that is proof or not.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 28-Apr-17 11:31:42)

Just a thought - Try Opera and use the built in VPN as a test...?

The site I think uses javascript for various elements and I know some people like to run with that disabled, and the screenshots look almost as if javascript is turned off.

Sadly - I tested it from a few other Zen connections to quash the speculation - and it works from other locations.

It looks like some issue with Java(script) in a number of locations.

After keeping an eye on the OpenReach "Accepting Orders" list at https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super... I noticed that this week WSLOD had changed status and was now accepting FTTP On Demand orders!!

However I checked with FluidOne and they've said that Openreach say we're too far from the node (bank K) to get the product

I was wondering does anyone know if it's possible to find out where our node is, to see if there's perhaps been a mistake here?

The reason I ask is that given the location of our property and the exchange, if we're 8km+ from the node, the entire village and every property in it would seem likely to be 8km+ from it as well as it must be up the valley somewhere and we're at that side of the village....

The exchange itself is only 4km (following the road, less in a straight line) from us, so I'm guessing it's not there.

seems odd they'd list an exchange as being open to FTTPoD if all the properties are too far away to get service, so I'm hoping perhaps a mistake has been made somewhere...

In reply to a post by raesene:

However I checked with FluidOne and they've said that Openreach say we're too far from the node (bank K) to get the product

I was wondering does anyone know if it's possible to find out where our node is, to see if there's perhaps been a mistake here?

Ask an Openreach Engineer when out & about? But Openreach are likely to have got the estimate right...

Edited by deleted (Fri 05-May-17 20:08:35)

Are on cabinet 2 that isn't RFS yet? That maybe the issue as the node is not that far from cabinet 2 and 3

Thanks for that!

Yep we're on Cab 2 (which is still waiting for its power connection from what I've heard)

So if the node is near cabs 2 and 3, we should be pretty close in (thinking about it, I can guess where they've put it as there's a point where the lines to those two cabs split)

I'll go to FluidOne and suggest that they check another nearby number to confirm that it's available and then maybe a manual check will indicate that we're near enough in for a survey.

You may need to wait until cab 2 is activated. Not sure though.

I would say for sure you will need to wait for cabinet 2 to be live

As cabinet is not live, computer probably said no, and agent did not notice that its not a live cab, and just thought it was a too far issue

yeah sounds like that might be the case (hopefully anyway!). I was hoping it might not be dependent on the cabinet as the service runs to the node, but sounds like I'll need to wait for the cab. to get power. Hopefully SSE will sort themselves out soon, this cab. has been waiting for power for the last 3-4 months!

Join the club, power is all wee need too.

Just as an update on this and to provide some more data points for anyone looking at FTTPoD. The cabinet on our exchange got enabled, so I was able to place an order with FluidOne which went through on the 1st August.

We've just had an engineer out to look at the layout for the installation who said they might be able to bring the fibre from a pole relatively closeby (so fingers crossed no excess construction charges).

The process with FluidOne has been pretty good so far, they kept in touch and checked up regularly with Openreach on progress on the exchange, and the order process was easy enough.

Here is quote from cerberusnetworks as it seem lots cheaper than fluidone who will be charged at £300 plus vat a month but cerberusnetworks only charged at £87.50 plus vat a month.

https://postimg.org/image/ryh9jx1dx/

I was surprise I am on Band B distance based charge (between 200m and 399m NGA Aggregation Node)

That's interesting! Good to see some more ISPs entering the arena for FTTPoD.

I had thought the Openreach price of FTTPoD was higher than that, so that seems like a pretty good deal.

No what they do is ordering FTTPoD then after activation they only charged me for FTTP Pro 2 not FTTPoD. It's appear fluidone is charged for FTTPoD after activated, which it quite rip off and expensive. U are better off with Cerberus Networks Ltd as they will put you on FTTP Pro 2 instead of stupid FTTPoD monthly service charge.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 12:37:37)

That monthly price of £87.50 (ex vat) you've been quoted is for native FTTP, because if you look here

https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/connectivity-broa...

their 'FTTP Pro 2' package is actually for native FTTP and pricing is shown as £87.50.

Its D�j� vu all over again:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4526073-bt-...

Yes but the manager say once FTTPoD is activated, they will use native FTTP Pro 2 instead to charge this service for £87.50 exc VAT per month. They say they can wrangling with BT to make sure we are able to supply this to consumers as well as businesses with their terms and conditions of resale for native FTTP Pro 2 instead of FTTPoD.

Will they be able to do this? I doubt Openreach and BT will rejected this order anyway.

In that case i reckon you should go ahead with the order (if you're able to afford it) and sign the agreement with the quoted monthly charge of £87.50. If they renege on the order then sue them for breach of contract and maybe, just maybe, you might be able to get FTTPoD for £87.50 a month. I thought about doing the same with BT Business ( i had a signed contract/agreement with them) but thought it would be a waste of time and energy since they have stopped selling FTTPoD altogether. But you will be in a better position since Cerberus actually sell the product.

I wouldn't bothered to go ahead with this. Because at the end it will be long hassle and arguement and it not worth it to get all stressed out. But knowing bt wholesale as they have the power to reject it.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I wouldn't bothered to go ahead with this. Because at the end it will be long hassle and arguement and it not worth it to get all stressed out. ...

I'd do as baby_frogmella suggests and accept the offer, and from what you've said in the past it appears you can afford it!

As baby_frogmella says, if you've got a signed contract and they renege on it you could take them to court; but if you don't want the hassle then don't bother arguing your case, and just accept their refusal to complete the deal at the agreed price.

So nothing to lose really - you may get your FTTP(oD) installed at a bargain price, and if they refuse then you don't have the possible stress you're concerned about because you just accept their refusal.

Win-win.

I been contact fluidone and they told me my distance band are F not B and all FTTPoD are charged more than £300 a month exc vat. I told them about cerbus network and they don't agree with this FTTPoD can revert to FTTP once the order went through as BTW will rejected and declined it. So, I think the isp of fluidone are more honestly and professional.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I been contact fluidone and they told me my distance band are F not B ...

Well according to your Cerberus quote it states "Band B (Subject to Survey ... )", so why not get them to do the survey?

Nah not bothered. I just knew my distance band will be F anyway and will cost more expensive. I have to wait for G.Fast come along sooner or later. No matter if I have £20k in account. Not worth the money in my view.

Not sure why you even bothered to get a quote then?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Nah not bothered. I just knew my distance band will be F anyway and will cost more expensive. I have to wait for G.Fast come along sooner or later. No matter if I have £20k in account. Not worth the money in my view.

Well you won't be sure it's Band F unless you tell Cerberus to do the survey - who knows, you may be pleasantly surprised!

And if/when you get a faster VDSL connection, there'll always be that elusive higher speed carrot only obtainable via FTTP.

Fluidone has confirmed 100% it will be Band F for my FTTPoD for between £6500 and £7500 for my property. There is no way I ain't paying this.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Fluidone has confirmed 100% it will be Band F for my FTTPoD for between £6500 and £7500 for my property. There is no way I ain't paying this.

Nothing is confirmed 100% until the Openreach Surveyor comes around to your home/premises and does the survey. So if you place an order with Cerberus then you don't pay a penny and can cancel without any penalties if your quoted costs increase after the survey. You've really got nothing to lose and everything to gain by potentially getting a ''bargain'' FTTPoD for £2k and £87.50 per month. I think most people would grab this offer with both hands, even if they were aware that chances of the order going ahead on those t&c's were small...

Until I check over to virgin media site, checked my post code in, blimey shocking to my own eyes, I can have Virgin Media Fibre Optic Ultra Fast Broadband stand alone with no contract at £48 a month for 350Mbps down and 20Mbps up (no traffic management on both down and up) with upfront fee of £65.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

..., I can have Virgin Media Fibre Optic Ultra Fast Broadband stand alone ...

So is that a 'true' fibre service as in FTTP, or the 'Virgin-speak' version which uses co-axial cable for the final leg of your connection?

Still on co-axial cable to my house from cable cabinet

So whenever faster FTTP products are released by BT, on past performance, you would say your 'Virgin Media Fibre Optic Ultra Fast Broadband' wasn't fast enough (at some stage co-ax won't be able to keep up with pure fibre speeds), so eventually you would be looking at FTTP again.

Why not miss the Virgin stage out completely and jump at the Cerberus offer, go on, you know you want to!

I have decided to go for it and take Cerberus offer and let Openreach to do survey to my property from the distance band and if it was remain at £2,400 activation fee and installation fee with 36 x £105 a month then I will be happy to have FTTP Pro 2 for 330/30 for true fibre all the way from the exchange to my property. What about DLM?

If the distance band are end up in F which it cost more than £5k then forget it and cancel the order.

Will let cerberus know first thing in the morning but why it take 90 days to get installation?

Band B (I hope it will be) activation, installation and survey £2400 (inc VAT)
FTTP Pro 2 with speed of 330/30 (3 years contract) 36 x £105 (inc VAT)
Total cost overall after 36 months £6180 inc VAT

Would leave me with £13.8k left in account.

Do I need the phone line?

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 19:29:13)

1) There's no DLM on FTTP so you can switch on/off the ONT as often as you like

2) I think 90 days installation is just a ballpark figure, it may be more or less than this depending on the complexity of your install. Remember its a bespoke install and takes time for each build stage to complete. If it helps my install took nearly 4 months. See my thread here for more details.

3) At present FTTPoD is a data only service and your existing copper line will remain untouched. You could cease your copper line and take out a VOIP service over FTTPoD if required.

Really hope you get it at the quoted price, good luck!

Edited by deleted (Mon 07-Aug-17 19:40:37)

That's great to hear that. But I do hope that cerbusus FTTP will be reliable and the fibre speed will be spot on just like your too with fluidone. But it will be Guaranteed 12Mbps throughput (not sure why is this for FTTP?)

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 20:03:39)

Can I ask openreach survey to put FTTP cable in the back garden not the front garden if they come to do the survey?

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 20:10:09)

Yeah Openreach should be able to accommodate your request wrt entry point of cabling provided it doesn't mean a huge amount of extra work.

Re: min throughput on FTTP, if you don't get the full 310/30 speeds at all times then I'm sure Cerberus will investigate further.

Forget to add:

I know FTTC is up to speed (eg: up to 80Meg / up to 20Meg) but does FTTP is the same up to speed eg: up to 330Meg / up to 30Meg?

Is your FTTP always on 330/30 spot on 24/7 ?

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 20:35:32)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I have decided to go for it and take Cerberus offer...


Band B (I hope it will be) activation, installation and survey £2400 (inc VAT)
FTTP Pro 2 with speed of 330/30 (3 years contract) 36 x £105 (inc VAT)
Total cost overall after 36 months £6180 inc VAT ...

Good luck with the survey, and I too hope you're Band B !

Maybe the £6180 would look slightly more acceptable if you subtracted whatever 3 years worth of your expected costs for your VDSL plus line rental etc. which you would otherwise be paying anyway.

Nope, can suffer contention and hardware issues.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Nope, can suffer contention and hardware issues.

Any proof of this?

It is not a Leased Line service with guaranteed throughput but uses a shared infrastructure, so is still subject to congestion/contention in the same way that there is no guarantee that you can drive at the speed limit on all roads all the time.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Nope, can suffer contention and hardware issues.

Any proof of this?

At least you won't have to worry about cross-talk, SNR margins, line attenuation etc., and no more checking maximum attainable rates.

LOL how true! And don't have to worry about Error Seconds either.

MrSaffron - do u have any TBB speed test history from any customers of Cerberus isp?

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 21:04:50)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Forget to add:

I know FTTC is up to speed (eg: up to 80Meg / up to 20Meg) but does FTTP is the same up to speed eg: up to 330Meg / up to 30Meg?

Is your FTTP always on 330/30 spot on 24/7 ?

Yeah getting full line speeds 24/7. Speed test taken just now:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6520387201

Live TBB BQM:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

As others have said FTTP, like vdsl2, adsl2+, adsl1 etc is still a contended service however a quality ISP would ask Openreach to investigate if speeds weren't consistent on FTTP 24/7 - at least that's what Fluidone told me. I think there's a user on here who' s on a BT Infinity 4 330/30 service (native FTTP) and gets less than 200mbps throughput at peak times yet BT won't do anything about it, saying its perfectly normal...

Sound like Fluidone are the best isp by miles ahead. Cos I never heard of Cerberus before, there is no reviews on it. Scary bit as we don't know what Cerberus are like could be worse than BT Infinity 4 for FTTP

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

Yeah getting full line speeds 24/7. Speed test taken just now:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6520387201

Live TBB BQM:
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Not bad - lose about 20Meg off download. But upload is spot on.

TBB BQM is pretty good but I thought FTTP should be less than 5ms ping?

My Plusnet FTTC speedtest result: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6520433975

My TBB BQM Live: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 21:31:17)

I live in North Scotland so pings are never going to be in single digits, even on FTTP.

TBH i hadn't heard of Fluidone either before ordering and they turned out ok. I'm sure Cerberus will be fine.

Looking here near the bottom of their page Ceberus state:

Currently only the 330/30Mbps variant of FTTP is available as On Demand. Once installed rental pricing is the same.

They are clearly stating that their FTTPoD monthly pricing is the same as native FTTP - despite Openreach charging them differently. I'm guessing they are making their money by putting a premium on the install costs. For example, they would only pay Openreach £1050 and then charge you £2000 for a Band B installation. Though there is also an Openreach fixed connection charge of £750 on FTTPoD.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

Would be nice to have native FTTP 1000/220 am I sound bit too greedy?

Current Openreach pricing:

Up to 1000Mbit/s/220Mbit/s Note 1 20/01/2017 1158.00 1,692.00

Might not go ahead with Cerberus FTTP Unlimited due to FTTP AUP Policy stated:

6. What about excessive network usage?
6.1. Where services are supplied with an unlimited monthly usage policy, and it is determined that any customers Internet activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, Cerberus may give the customer generating the excessive traffic a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, should the levels of activity not immediately decrease after the warning, Cerberus may terminate that customer�s services.
6.2. Services subject to a monthly usage allowance will be billed at the rate of £1 per GB of additional data use over and above the allowance for that month.

Going to ask them tomorrow what is the maximum download & upload usage per month on FTTP.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 22:20:11)

How much data do you use at the moment?

approx 1500GB to 2500GB a month (because of sky+ HD box downloading HD movies, tv series) Netflix HD, other downloading too.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 07-Aug-17 22:54:02)

(Disclaimer: I'm not Cerberus but just a casual bystander)

If the guaranteed rate is 12Mbit/s, then they can expect you to use this 24/7 and I can't see how it would be unreasonable to others to do so. Using a solid 12Mbit/s would give just under 4TB usage in an average 30.4 day month.

So based on your usage I don't think that would breach the AUP. But as you say - best to check with them and state your current usage and ask if that would be acceptable.

If they say it is, but then later claim it's in breach (seemingly unlikely) then you could simply refer them back to their admissal that it's acceptable.

The £1 per gb is only for limited packages with a fixed monthly quota.
There is no maximum download/upload usage per month, it's an unlimited service. They are just pointing out of you abuse the hell out of it they reserve the right to cancel your contract. Wouldn't that be a great thing to happen? Then you can order native FTTP from another ISP for a cheaper price.
Considering they would remain stuck in a contract with BT it would be business suicide to release you from your contract free.
Your extremely unlikely to fall foul of their AUP.
There will be very few (if any) sharing the local fibre with you as there isn't much native FTTP around you.

Sounds like you're making excuses to not order. Sounds like a bargain to me, especially at those monthly rental prices.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

TBB BQM is pretty good but I thought FTTP should be less than 5ms ping?

Depends where in the country you are.
In central Scotland I could never get under 10ms. In Inverness/highlands there isn't a hope in hell of getting 5ms.

Cerberus have been around since 2006 so they are fairly well established. They were one of the vendors the company I work for was considering for network services when they moved offices 3 years ago.

Just phoned up Cerberus networks about FTTP with this policy AUP and told them of my average data usage and they say the maximum usage allowance on FTTC, FTTP are no more than 750GB in a single month. Anything over 750GB will get a warning letter. That's now has put me off. I did asked them to removed Unlimited as because it was misleading word 'Unlimited' mean UNILIMITED but they point me out Unlimited subject to AUP policy. as they haven't done anything wrong of AUP policy there. So, it a no no for me for Cerberus FTTP. I think they are good offer FTTP at £87.50 per month exc VAT but with AUP policy about usage allowance warning letter is no good for me.

Going to try quote again for FluidOne.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 09:23:54)

+1

Urrrghhhh 750gb monthly limit appears to be a bit low for an "unlimited" 330/30 FTTP connection. I guess that's why their monthly FTTPoD prices are on the low side because bandwidth costs money.

My usage with Fluidone hit over 2TB in the first month, I dread to think what Cerberus would have done to me if I was a customer of theirs LOL

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Just phoned up Cerberus networks about FTTP with this policy AUP and told them of my average data usage and they say the maximum usage allowance on FTTC, FTTP are no more than 750GB in a single month. Anything over 750GB will get a warning letter. That's now has put me off. ...

... but with AUP policy about usage allowance warning letter is no good for me.

I totally agree with what j0hn83 said earlier.

I think you'd be looking a gift horse in the mouth by not going for the Cerberus deal. If you get a warning letter for excessive usage and then have your service ended, what could be better? You would then be free to order a native FTTP service from, say, BT, at lower cost and shorter contract.

Again, win-win !

Anything over 2TB are about right for FTTP. I remember I use to have a warning letter from few isp's in the past on ADSL2+ for usage allowance abused, the same with Virgin Media as well. Really hate anything with AUP or FUP on it.

I can see FluidOne doesn't have any AUP or FUP on it neither T&C's small print.

Not worth it now as they already know my usage allowance, they won't let me off lightly if I did sign up.

So what?

What can they do which is so terrible? They can't lock you up or fine you, or cut your bits off!

If they're going to terminate your contract, I'd say the sooner the better!

Can anyone recommend me of which wireless router are the best for FTTP as the wifi must have at least 330Meg download speed as I know most wireless router are struggle to get above 200Meg.

Any wireless router with FTTP supported as I think openreach will provided me their openreach modem (FTTP)

If speed is that paramount, use Ethernet, not wireless.

Loads are fine with that speed. Please note if you live in an apartment / flat you cannot receive FoD.

I'm using the Netgear R9000 and it gives me the full 310/30 via 802.11ac wifi on my desktop which has an Asus PCE AC-88U 4x4 PCI card installed. I get ~ 200mbps on both our iphone 6 and 125 mbps on my Thinkpad laptop. Wireless streaming to both our MAG 256 and Nvidia shield Google tv box works flawlessly.

If the Netgear R9000 is out of your budget then go for the Netgear R7800 or Synology AC2600 routers, these have the same 2.4 and 5ghz radios as the R9000 but with a less beefier processor.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I think openreach will provided me their openreach modem (FTTP)

No such thing as a modem on FTTP The Openreach ONT (Optical Network Terminal) installed in your home simply converts/translates the fibre optical signal into a data signal.

I live in a house, not flat or apartment.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

So what?

What can they do which is so terrible? They can't lock you up or fine you, or cut your bits off!

If they're going to terminate your contract, I'd say the sooner the better!

I wouldn't be so sure. Cerberus could perhaps cover such a scenario by inserting a clause in their contract to adslmax such as

In the event of contract termination by either party during the minimum term, then the customer is liable for the remaining monthly service costs up until the minimum term is completed, if applicable

Point taken, so worth adslmax checking the contract for such a clause. If it doesn't exist though, nothing to worry about.

They have commented on the ISP review story

"Just to clarify the AUP, as Mark suggested, this is not intended to curb legitimate usage or limit downloads. We are just looking to avoid illegal or excessive use of the service that could impact on other users. We recognise that an ultrafast service is going to predominantly appeal to more demanding users and we are pleased to be able to deliver a best-in-class service for these users, at a cost effective price"

I doubt 750Gb would be deemed as excessive.

Updated:

Cerberus have rang me back saying if my usage allowance are more than 750GB they can't go ahead with the order and suggest me to find other isp's that's will do more than 750GB for FTTP.

Oh well, back to FluidOne now. Still awaiting for their quote and see if there is AUP or FUP on it as well.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 12:37:43)

One done people will learn than bandwidth while cheaper than in the past is still not free.

Mrsaffron, I just wish isp to stop advert UNLIMITED because unlimited mean it uncapped never mind the AUP policy about usage allowance or get a warning letter.

I'm 99% sure there's no FUP on Fluidone - which is reflected in their monthly service charges for FTTPoD.

they might be falling foul of ASA guidelines, a unlimited product which has a hidden limit.

Unlimited with AUP is acceptable based on ASA/CAP rules.

Totally Unlimited with AUP is not acceptable.

Those are the rules, so feel free to express anger but given the rules believe you are just shouting and no one is listening.

Thanks will tell cerberus of this ASA/CAP rules on AUP policy.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 12:56:02)

Another post from Cerberus...

"Just to clarify any misunderstanding, we don�t have a �fair usage policy� limiting downloads on these products to any GB value per month. They are unlimited. There is a short discussion about our Acceptable Usage Policy further up in these comments. Hopefully that clarifies the context and intent of our AUP."

That's disappointing. I can't believe they consider 750GB a month excessive for an FTTP connection!

Tim

yeah this is why I wasnt sure, this loophole is silly but I guess the ASA did it like this because they let plain unlimited get misadvertised for so long.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

Another post from Cerberus...

"Just to clarify any misunderstanding, we don�t have a �fair usage policy� limiting downloads on these products to any GB value per month. They are unlimited. There is a short discussion about our Acceptable Usage Policy further up in these comments. Hopefully that clarifies the context and intent of our AUP."

Where did u get these from?

A representative posting on the story about them on ISPreview.

It's appear that FluidOne saying NO to me.

Can you please confirm if you are a business or residential user?

residential user for home

Fluidata

Unfortunately we do not provide to residential users. We only provide to business users.

even with large £20k in bank account ?

so are you saying Openreach FTTPoD only sold as a business only?

Fluidata

Correct.

I give up. I stay with FTTC 80/20 until G.Fast come along.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I give up. I stay with FTTC 80/20 until G.Fast come along.

To be fair though, you're asking for a quotation with no intention of actually taking the service.

No doubt when G.fast comes along, you will be looking for an amazing deal on that (most likely at a loss for the operator)!

That's a bummer Max

I guess its due to the fact that ISPs cannot offer contracts longer than 2 years to residential users, with FTTPoD being on a 3 year min term. TBH surprised Cerberus are offering 3 year contracts to residential users, I don't think ofcom would be too happy with that.

Shut your [censored] mouth and mind your own [censored] business

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 13:55:14)

In reply to a post by timl:

That's disappointing. I can't believe they consider 750GB a month excessive for an FTTP connection!

I can't believe it either, and I'd say in practice they wouldn't. After all, in theory on a 330Mbps connection it would be possible to download approximately 120GB per hour, so 750GB would only be around 6 hours usage at maximum speed.

I'd be inclined to believe the comments copy/pasted by lee111s here and here.

I'd be disappointed if adslmax has talked himself out of going for the Cerberus deal.

Absolutely no need for that.

I agree with him to be honest. You either want FTTPoD or you don't.

You're skirting around looking for reasons not to order it.

Excuse me, I do want FTTPoD cos I have £20k in account. If I want this i will take it but not with 750GB usage allowance with AUP no way. Also I get bit suspicious over Cerberus offering 3 year contracts to residential users on FTTPoD which Ofcom don't allow this to residential users.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... Also I get bit suspicious over Cerberus offering 3 year contracts to residential users on FTTPoD which Ofcom don't allow this to residential users.

If you do really want to order it you could just say you are a business if the question arises. Easy enough to make up a name.

In reply to a post by Rastus:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

... Also I get bit suspicious over Cerberus offering 3 year contracts to residential users on FTTPoD which Ofcom don't allow this to residential users.

If you do really want to order it you could just say you are a business if the question arises. Easy enough to make up a name.

They ask for a company registration number, which they check at companies house

Not worth the hassle, and are looking into trouble ahead with AUP policy (not 100% sure of this) and 3 years contract on residential FTTPoD order. Sound too fishy to me for this cheaper FTTPoD at £87.50 per month from this isp - cerberus.

I am going to stop this now. Going to stay on with my FTTC for now. Until G.Fast come along or until Openreach decided it time to give FTTPoD to all residential sooner or later.

I can wait anyway. But for Cerberus the offer is too good to be true with 750GB on AUP policy arguement and 3 years contract got me into suspicious.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 14:36:47)

And the merry-go-round starts again.

Until you try, you'll never know.

So if you want it, got for it. It you don't get the idea out of your head and stop discussing it.

I doubt anyone is really interested in your finances, so not sure why you keep bringing it up?

And pressure from maybe large provider that used to rate limit after you exceed various levels...

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

They ask for a company registration number, which they check at companies house

Well adslmax might not have a company but couldn't he be a self-employed [insert profession] working from home who needs a fast connection?

Well that's a crock of *** if you ask me. Not every "business" is registered with company's house.
I've had a number of business contracts (broadband/mobile phone/van lease/security) and never been asked for my company registration number.
Probably millions of self-employed sole traders who that would exclude (myself included).

Yeah I think its a PLC requirement but if not a PLC dont need to be registered, do I have that right?

I agree, not every business will be registered with Companies House but Fluidone will not process your order unless you provide a company registration no. They don't care if you are a sole trader operating out of your attic or own a multinational firm with plush offices in Canary Wharf - they just need your company to be registered with Companies House. Easy enough to do though

Btw they will also do a credit check on your company.

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Aug-17 16:45:17)

At little unnecessary?

You've been asking ISPs for years how much it will cost you etc. - https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/FTTPoD...

You claimed the old pricing was a rip off, so how does that change now that pricing is substantially higher?

As for the money in your account, I don't see the relevance. That's like saying I have £200,000 in equity in a house so I would consider buying a Ferrari.

In reply to a post by AndyHCZ:

You've been asking ISPs for years how much it will cost you etc. - https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/FTTPoD...

Good spot AndyHCZ but thats was back in 2014 as that time I have no job, no money.

But it's much clearly that Plusnet and ICUK saying I am on Band F so the cost at the moment from openreach as of now are:

Band F £4,375.00
Annual Rental £1,188.00
Fixed Connection £750.00

Total cost £6,313.00
after VAT cost £7,575.60

and two years of monthly rental inc vat £118.80

total repayment with vat inclusive: £10,426.80

That's not bad. Leave me just £9,600 in account

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 18:37:10)

And when G.fast comes along at 20% of the monthly cost with no installation and the same speed, you would be rather annoyed I would say.

We should see G.fast rolled out this year as far as commercial deployment goes, so it's not inconceivable you see it sooner than later.

The problem will be your ISP. Plusnet still don't have FTTP as a launched product, so I guess G.fast would be quite similar.

http://www.gimmefibre.eu/ (that's a message to Plusnet) lol

I don't expect Cuckoo Oak will see G.Fast this year, next year nor a year after that. Probably around 2020 to 2025. I just know it. So, no chance of G.Fast and as for Plusnet, if they don't want to provided G.Fast. Then I will look another isp who willing have G.Fast. But, I think BT isp will be the one to start G.Fast for customers this year.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

http://www.gimmefibre.eu/ (that's a message to Plusnet) ...

That link goes to a feature on FTTH (FTTP), so it's pointless directing it at PN as they don't provide the infrastructure.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

and two years of monthly rental inc vat £118.80

It's a 3 year minimum term on FTTPod. That's why it's only available to business's.

No idea if Cerberus are attempting to sell this to residential customers but if they are I have no idea how they are getting past the 2 year limit imposed by OfCom.

edit: definitely 3 years on Cerberus too. http://blog.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/technical-briefin...

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 08-Aug-17 20:05:45)

That was openreach pricing I refer to. Nothing to do with Cerberus.

First year annual rental £1188.00 ex vat
then 2 years of £118.80 monthly charge inc vat

so both of it are 3 years total

Edited by adslmax (Tue 08-Aug-17 20:18:24)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

That was openreach pricing I refer to. Nothing to do with Cerberus.

First year annual rental £1188.00 ex vat
then 2 years of £118.80 monthly charge inc vat

so both of it are 3 years total

A precursory look indicates you're looking at £300 + VAT a month = £360. 360 x 12 x 3 = £12,960 in ongoing fees.

If you're a band F install you're looking at £4,375 distance based and £750 fixed = £5,125 plus the VAT = £6,150

Total cost for the three years £19,110.

I would imagine the operator would be fine taking all of the cash up front were you to fail the credit check.

You can get a company registered with Companies House for a few pounds.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

A precursory look indicates you're looking at £300 + VAT a month = £360. 360 x 12 x 3 = £12,960 in ongoing fees.

If you're a band F install you're looking at £4,375 distance based and £750 fixed = £5,125 plus the VAT = £6,150

Total cost for the three years £19,110.

I would imagine the operator would be fine taking all of the cash up front were you to fail the credit check.

You can get a company registered with Companies House for a few pounds.

£19,110?? can't be right?? Have you got the maths right?? Or are you having a joke with me??

Edited by adslmax (Wed 09-Aug-17 00:20:43)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

That was openreach pricing I refer to. Nothing to do with Cerberus.

First year annual rental £1188.00 ex vat
then 2 years of £118.80 monthly charge inc vat

so both of it are 3 years total

A precursory look indicates you're looking at £300 + VAT a month = £360. 360 x 12 x 3 = £12,960 in ongoing fees.

If you're a band F install you're looking at £4,375 distance based and £750 fixed = £5,125 plus the VAT = £6,150

Total cost for the three years £19,110.

I would imagine the operator would be fine taking all of the cash up front were you to fail the credit check.

You can get a company registered with Companies House for a few pounds.

£19,110?? can't be right?? Have you got the maths right?? Or are you having a joke with me??

In order: Correct, it is, yes I have, and no I'm not.

There was a good reason why I said I thought you were mad to be buying it elsewhere. It is a business service, your connection will be treated like a leased line by the provider, you will have excellent support, this all comes at a cost that is rolled into the monthly charge. The rest of it is Openreach's charges.

If the pricing £19,110 are correct (I better ask my work boss for a pay rise!) He think I am mad to have it FTTPoD (business at my home) is a waste of money of no profit myself, I told him, it my life, my money. He reckon I need to puchased a lovely housewife for £19k that kind of money for my lifetime to be with my future wife.

So back to FoD availability on that note.

FWIW, after reading this thread I contacted Cerberus and got the same £87.50 Monthly quote, so sent a request to order and then got an e-mail saying BT had doubled the price and it would be around £150 per Month.

Whilst I'm prepared to pay for an un-subsidised installation, I'm not then prepared to pay double the rental it would cost for native FTTP on a subsidised installation.

In reply to a post by lincsat:

FWIW, after reading this thread I contacted Cerberus and got the same £87.50 Monthly quote, so sent a request to order and then got an e-mail saying BT had doubled the price and it would be around £150 per Month.

This sounds like sharp practice. Yet more evidence that Cerebus should be avoided.

Cerberus are not to be trusted. I just know it, BT will reject £87.50 monthly charge for FTTPoD.

I also received a quote from Cerberus of £150 ex VAT per month for FTTPOD which is double their FTTP pricing.

Openreach charge £99 so that means they are marking it up £50 whereas fluidone seem to mark it up £200 a month.

I also think it's crazy that the monthly rental is so much more than FTTP but isn't it actually Openreach that is the one to blame and not Cerberus?

If anything fluidone seem to the be the ones really screwing the end user.

Am I understanding the situation correctly?

The reason for the higher monthly cost from Openreach is because the full cost of the provision is likely still not recouped from the "installation" cost.

Yes that's what Cerberus said.

How does Fluidone get away with charging £300 a month?

Monopoly on FTTPoD until Cerberus have entered the market?

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Aug-17 16:26:39)

You'd need to speak to Fluidone about that. No idea what their costs are.

In reply to a post by mumba:

Yes that's what Cerberus said.

How does Fluidone get away with charging £300 a month?

Monopoly on FTTPoD until Cerberus have entered the market?

I don't think Fluidone will be losing much sleep over Cerberus entering the FoD market. Perhaps if Cerberus offered a FoD product with truly unlimited usage things might be different but truly unlimited usage at those prices (even £150pm) Cerebus would go bust. Bandwidth costs money!

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Aug-17 16:49:23)

But how does any ISP then offer truly unlimited 330 Mbps on FTTP for £75 etc.?

Are you saying every ISP throttles their customers if they are not charging £300 a month for 330 Mbps?

Because large ISPs price it on the basis of what the majority of users will use in terms of bandwidth.

Smaller ISPs would be unable to offer this unlimited without their own backhaul as a single heavy user could cost them thousands a month.

In reply to a post by mumba:

But how does any ISP then offer truly unlimited 330 Mbps on FTTP for £75 etc.?

Are you saying every ISP throttles their customers if they are not charging £300 a month for 330 Mbps?

BT Consumer are the only ISP to offer native FTTP 330/30 for less than £100 pm with truly unlimited usage. Due to their huge customer base, their light users will be subsidizing heavy users (whether its on FTTC or FTTP) and overall, BT will find their broadband revenue will cover their bandwidth costs.

However with smaller ISPs with a much smaller no of customers, even a handful of heavy users cannot be compensated for by their light users, hence why they either have data caps in place (eg AAISP, IDnet, Cereberus) or charge higher prices in £100's per month for a truly unlimited service (Fluidone). I remember IDNet a few years ago introducing a truly unlimited ADSL2+ service and nearly every freeloader joined them. Their network became crippled overnight and were forced to re-introduce capped packages. Some small ISPs have even gone bust by taking on too many customers on a cheap as chips service, eg E7even (pay £120 in advance and then not pay anything for 12 months LOL)

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Aug-17 17:50:36)

Ok that makes a lot of sense that the smaller ISP's can't balance out their customers' usage without enough of a critical mass of customers.

Cerebus say their service is unlimited but do you guys think that their AUP effectively allows them to throttle or cap usage?

Has anyone had experience with them to know if this is what happens in reality?

Edited by deleted (Wed 09-Aug-17 18:10:04)

I had a quote two days ago from Cerberus for FFTPoD 330/30 for £2K installation and £75pm (+vat) and they confirmed to me today that there is NO cap however they also said that OpenReach have just made a "sudden change to the commercials" so the price quote is no longer valid and the minimum monthly rental will now be £150+.

In reply to a post by brookheather:

they also said that OpenReach have just made a "sudden change to the commercials" so the price quote is no longer valid and the minimum monthly rental will now be £150+.

This is (to put it bluntly) a lie.
Openreach publish their pricing and are required to give at least 30 days notice of any changes.
The published price list shows that the rental charge for 330/30 and connection charge hasn't changed since 01/05/2014.

These guys sound like cowboys.

Openreach do not make sudden (negative) price changes. They have to give notice to all their customers as part of their terms.

The published price list liked to above shows the current line rental for 330/30 as £1,188.00 pa ex. vat so clearly at £75 pm (£900 pa) they weren't even covering the rental costs so sounds like someone made a mistake in their pricing?

As usual, when an ISP makes a mistake, rather than being honest, they blame Openreach.

I think what has happened is that they assumed the monthly rental would be the same as FTTP and didn't realise that Openreach charge more for FTTPoD to recoup more of the installation costs.

I agree, they should have just admitted they made a mistake with the pricing rather than blaming Openreach.

At £150 a month it definitely makes FTTPoD more realistic but there is the risk that they will cap or throttle usage as mentioned above if they deem your use to be unacceptable.

As Andy said, they don't seem like a decent outfit, regardless of the price.

Cerberus manager have emailed me to apology to me saying my 1st quote from them are incorrect and now adjusted to put it right because of openreach told them to updated the new pricing list as following:

Cerberus FTTP ON DEMAND - 36 month contract (for home office) 330/30 uncapped subject to AUP annual rental £1188.00

then £190 a month (36 month)

Activation fee and installation charge with variable charges Band F £6000

All quote are excluding VAT

But...they haven't updated on their website still pricing at £87.50 exc vat.

I would steer clear away from these cowboy cerberus.

Edited by adslmax (Thu 10-Aug-17 12:33:06)

The Cerberus website shows the FTTP prices not FTTPoD prices which are more - OpenReach haven't changed the FFTPoD prices - it seems someone at Cerberus has been quoting using the FTTP prices instead of FTTPoD.

No excuse really. They should have been more professional way. Not mess around.

Agreed it's not exactly professional but I think they are experiencing teething issues with offering FTTPoD and linking into OpenReach's systems for pricing.

Anyway they told me that I should expect my quote next week.

I'll let you all know if I go through with my order and what their pricing is.

One other thing. They mentioned to me that FTTPoD can be 1 Mbps slower than normal FTTP due to some extra connections with the way Openreach get the cable to your house. So they said I should expect 329/29 instead of 330/30.

Have any of you heard of that before? I'm not too fussed about 1 Mbps but could this effect things in the future (changing ISPs or new technologies) with FTTPoD not being 100% identical to FTTP?

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Aug-17 14:39:55)

That last bit sounds like utter rubbish.

With FTTP, the "sync" speed can be anything they want it to be.

ROFL

Wonder where they get this all from.

yeah it sounded very odd to me.

In reply to a post by mumba:

One other thing. They mentioned to me that FTTPoD can be 1 Mbps slower than normal FTTP due to some extra connections with the way Openreach get the cable to your house. So they said I should expect 329/29 instead of 330/30.

Utter bollax [pardon my French]. Once installed, FTTPoD is technically the same as native FTTP.

Just got new cable with virgin media as engineer has installed 200/12 but told me that I have to phone up VM as they will activated 350/25 later today which I did.

I got offer 350/25 for just £42 a month standalone with no contract. Super Hub 3.0 including here.

Speedtest of 200/12: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6528454686
TBB Speedtest: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15023741461...

Edited by adslmax (Thu 10-Aug-17 15:42:58)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Just got new cable with virgin media as engineer has installed 200/12 but told me that I have to phone up VM as they will activated 350/25 later today which I did.

I got offer 350/25 for just £42 a month standalone with no contract. Super Hub 3.0 including here.

Speedtest of 200/12: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6528454686
TBB Speedtest: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15023741461...

Try some more speedtests tonight between 8pm and 10pm when everyone is watching Netflix and iPlayer... Virgin seem to offer good headline speeds but seem to have much worse contention at peak times compared with FTTC.

Will test it later at 9pm. Virgin Media say 200/12 is traffic management unless u addition £6.99 a month extra for homework 200/20 without any traffic management and are protected with maximum speed during peak times. But offer me 350/25 for £42 a month and it will be protected with maximum speed during congestion area and peak times with no traffic management at all.

The activation from 200/12 to 350/25 take up to 24 hours to be completed. But I will keep FTTC 80/20 for backup.

Edited by adslmax (Thu 10-Aug-17 15:58:46)

Sounds like things may be improving though

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7788-are-the-dar...

Which is good news as they are currently installing full fttp in our area.

You've existed in the broadband space long enough you should have learnt not to believe sales people surely...

Some further info. I called FluidOne for a quote. I received my quote very quickly which shows how much more in tune they are with the whole FTTPoD product.

However it seems the monthly fee is now £320. Also my house is in band E and they quoted me a £3900 install and activation fee. The salesman said there is nothing they can do about the pricing as it's fixed by Openreach. On Open reach's price list band E should be £3,150.

Is there another setup cost that Openreach charges to make it £3,900 or are they adding their own 24% margin.

I also asked the salesman why it's £320 a month when openreach charge £100 to them. He said no it's more complicated than that and rambled on a bit nonsensically. He didn't talk about bandwidth costs just routing and networking costs that sounded internal to themselves.

Anyway it seems that Fluidone is £320 a month now.

If anyone can explain what the extra install costs are that are not on Openreach's price list that would be much appreciated.

thanks

In reply to a post by mumba:

If anyone can explain what the extra install costs are that are not on Openreach's price list that would be much appreciated.

The Openreach price list shows a Fixed Connection cost of £750 which takes it to £3900. Cerberus do seem to charge a slight premium as for Band B they quoted me £2000 instead of £1800 (£1050+£750).

Edited by brookheather (Thu 10-Aug-17 16:29:44)

Go to VM 350/25 and job done for just one off fee of £65 and get an offer credit of £50 in your account plus £42 a month with no contract with free of charge Super Hub 3.0 (wifi) and you will get no traffic management on 350/25 24/7 with fully protected. Far better than expensive FTTPoD 330/30 with expensive install charge, activation fee, distance band charge and a very long 36 months contract.

There is a one-off connection fee of £750 charged by OR so £3900 sounds about right for a band E install - mine was £3700 for band D.

Wrt monthly costs, I imagine bt Wholesale bandwidth and Openreach wholesale costs make up a large chunk of the £320 monthly fee. Decent support also isn't cheap, you will find Fluidone are very pro-active in keeping you up to date with build progress should you place an order with them.

You can't really compare VM with Fluidone FTTPoD. They're totally different.

makes sense thanks.

Utter bollax [pardon my French]

+1

Horrible situation. Remember multiple instances of your passing off other people's speed tests as your own, and given you were talking about FTTPoD until really recently you seem to have gotten an extremely fast install.

There is no 350/25 tier.

Vivid 350 does not carry any bandwidth guarantees or preferential access to capacity.

Wondered how long the hatred of VM would last with a bandwidth obsessive with them offering 350Mb.

Virgin Media is lied to me. I just found out my area only covered up to 200/12. There is no 350/25 at all. I been going round and round in circle to cancel everything. VM say sorry u cannot cancel, you are tied into a 12 months contract make me fuming angry. I say to them no, look at my online order number that I did pay £65.00 one off fee and I did select on a 30 days rolling monthly contract. They told me there isn't no 30 days contract online. I am [censored] angry and now taking VM to legal action.

My speed now crawling to 36Meg out of 200Meg. Not happy at all. VM is lied.

I'm the Queen of Sheba btw.

As if I wasn't dubious before today...I don't believe a word you say.

I rather find it odd as VM stated there isn't no 30 days rolling contract online and you can't cancel the 12 months contract even there is 14 days cooling off period on it which they disagree with this either. [censored] me off right now.

In reply to a post by lee111s:

As if I wasn't dubious before today...I don't believe a word you say.

So you believe there's a 350/25 tier?

https://s27.postimg.org/i522gqw4z/VM_300_20.jpg

It does say 350/25 when I check it why I being on 200/12?

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Just got new cable with virgin media as engineer has installed 200/12 but told me that I have to phone up VM as they will activated 350/25 later today which I did.

I got offer 350/25 for just £42 a month standalone with no contract. Super Hub 3.0 including here.

Speedtest of 200/12: http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6528454686
TBB Speedtest: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/15023741461...

for VM looks good max

How discreet of you not to use your full title whilst posting here.

Post deleted by baby_frogmella

Edit: replied to wrong person

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Aug-17 09:42:38)