Lost 20 Mbps [VDSL]

Found out I had slower speeds yesterday and checked my modem to see it is connected at 61160 (I used to be on 79428). I've rebooted this morning but it resynced at 61694

Does anything in the status output I collected last night suggest an issue?

> vdsl status

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Running Mode : 17A State : SHOWTIME
DS Actual Rate : 61160000 bps US Actual Rate : 20000000 bps
DS Attainable Rate : 61586088 bps US Attainable Rate : 24053656 bps
DS Path Mode : Fast US Path Mode : Fast
DS Interleave Depth : 1 US Interleave Depth : 1
NE Current Attenuation : 10 dB Cur SNR Margin : 6 dB
DS actual PSD : -3.-9 dB US actual PSD : -3.-8 dB
NE CRC Count : 3 FE CRC Count : 6315
NE ES Count : 2 FE ES Count : 6062
Xdsl Reset Times : 0 Xdsl Link Times : 2
ITU Version[0] : b5004946 ITU Version[1] : 544e0000
VDSL Firmware Version : 05-07-06-0D-01-07 [with Vectoring support]
Power Management Mode : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
Test Mode : DISABLE
-------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
Far Current Attenuation : 9 dB Far SNR Margin : 6 dB
CO ITU Version[0] : b5004946 CO ITU Version[1] : 544eb206
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR : < IFTN >
> vdsl status counts

[ Counters: Showtime ]
Near End Far End Note
ElapsedTime : 13386006 13386006 (seconds)
CRC : 2 6315
FEC : 139 79969
HEC : 0 0
CRC_P : 0 0
CRCP_P : 0 0
CVP_P : 0 0
NCD : 0 0
LCD : 0 0
ES : 1 6062
SES : 0 0
LOSS : 2 12
UAS : 0 0
LOFS : 0 0
[ Counters: 15Min ]
Near End Far End Note
ElapsedTime : 635 635 (seconds)
CRC : 0 1
FEC : 0 6
HEC : 0 0
CRC_P : 0 0
CRCP_P : 0 0
CVP_P : 0 0
NCD : 0 0
LCD : 0 0
ES : 0 1
SES : 0 0
LOSS : 0 0
UAS : 0 0
LOFS : 0 0
[ Counters: 1DAY ]
Near End Far End Note
ElapsedTime : 49235 49235 (seconds)
CRC : 2 30
FEC : 41 213
HEC : 0 0
CRC_P : -4596 0
CRCP_P : 0 0
CVP_P : 0 0
NCD : 0 0
LCD : 0 0
ES : 1 29
SES : 0 0
LOSS : 0 0
UAS : 0 0
LOFS : 0 0

From thos basic stats there may be nothing you can do except find te noise source.

10dB attenuation suggests you are 250m or there abouts from te cabinet. 10dB would equate to 80-90 Mbps attainable of a good clean line with 6dB SNR.

Your SNR is at 6dB suggesting there is a lot of noise especially when seeing teh number of errors.

Are you able to run DSL stats? and get the graphs

Interesting. I can't monitor a Vigor 130 modem with routerstats to get graphs, I don't believe its compatible. I did find another web console command for more statistics if they show anything relevant.

---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
Near End Far End Note
Trellis : 1 1
Bitswap : 0 0
ReTxEnable : 0 0
VirtualNoise : 0 0
20BitSupport : 0 0
LatencyPath : 0 0
LOS : 0 0
LOF : 0 0
LPR : 0 0
LOM : 0 0
SosSuccess : 0 0
NCD : 0 0
LCD : 0 0
FECS : 12 79989 (seconds)
ES : 1 6065 (seconds)
SES : 0 0 (seconds)
LOSS : 0 18 (seconds)
UAS : 33 333 (seconds)
HECError : 0 0
CRC : 1 6318
RsCorrection : 0 0
INP : 0 0 (symbols)
InterleaveDelay : 0 0 (1/100 ms)
NFEC : 255 255
RFEC : 16 16
LSYMB : 5410 16533
INTLVBLOCK : 255 255
AELEM : 0 ----
>

I haven't added any new equipment recently in the house, I can try unplugging all the equipment near the modem and attempt another resync later.

Is there a threshold it should drop to before I should involve my ISP if I'm unable to diagnose?

Edited by Aaron_01 (Sat 30-Mar-19 12:10:32)

In reply to a post by Aaron_01:

Is there a threshold it should drop to before I should involve my ISP if I'm unable to diagnose?

Yes, the estimates (or even minimum guaranteed line speed) quoted by your ISP when you joined/renewed your contract with them.

A 20Mb drop due to a neighbouring line having FTTC broadband activated is just 1 possible reason.

The stats only show the lines current state, and don't give any indication of what caused the drop in sync speed.
The stats show the line is performing as good as it can under the current conditions.

Ok I will contact them as it's dropped below 72.29Mbps for my phone number at the Zen checker. I did ask to be changed to their new £38.99 pricing 3 weeks ago and they did that putting me into another 12 month contract, with the speed being the same as I've had for the last 3 years. So could that have affected anything like re-training being activated?

I will have to put the supplied router back on for Zen to do diagnostics, so may do that during the coming week, it only syncs at 71Mbps because it doesn't have the right chipset for an ECI cabinet.

Superfast broadband is available in your location
Typical Download Speed
73.93Mbps
Maximum Download Speed
80Mbps
Minimum Download Speed:
72.29Mbps
Typical Upload Speed:
19Mbps

Edited by Aaron_01 (Sat 30-Mar-19 14:12:27)

In reply to a post by MHC:

10dB attenuation suggests you are 250m or there abouts from te cabinet. 10dB would equate to 80-90 Mbps attainable of a good clean line with 6dB SNR.

Make no difference as mine is 11.5dB attenuation and I am within 250m away from the cabinet and now got SNR sit at 6.0dB with 79999K with max rate sitting at 85446K

What is the point of your post?

It adds nothing to the discussion.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

A 20Mb drop due to a neighbouring line having FTTC broadband activated is just 1 possible reason.

Now that I think about it, new neighbours moved in next door two weeks ago, they're a young couple so they must have applied for a fibre connection. I live in a maisonette (it's a single house split into 4 living flats)

Is this a fixable thing if so?

Edited by Aaron_01 (Sun 31-Mar-19 11:58:02)

Fixable yes, in an acceptable way, NO.

Tell them what your problem is and ask them to turn their modem off and disconnect it. Then see if yours recovers, if it does, you know the reason, however, crosstalk is a problem you will have to live with.

My neighbours have caused me to lose around 15+ Mbps and I know one who is the casue of around 9 - but there is nothing that can be done, you need to live with the laws of phyisics

hmm, I will have to introduce myself to them first.

I read that vectoring resolves these issues. Eastbourne got listed for the G.Fast upgrade in the November 2018 update, but I don't know if my cabinet has this?

BT Wholesale checker results: https://imgur.com/a/Eo3ikJm

Yes vectoring will resolve cross talk issues, but it is only in use on a very few cabinets to meet targets for BDUK deployment.

Having G.Fast available will make no difference to VDSL unless your cross talker takes G.Fast of course, but given your speeds, they/you may well not fair to well on G.Fast either if it becomes available.

Your current sync is well below the hand back threshold, so you may be lucky enough to get somewhere if you complain (pair swap perhaps), or they may just say you can leave without penalty.

In reply to a post by Aaron_01:

hmm, I will have to introduce myself to them first.

Tha\t is the easy bit ... just go and knock on the door.

My downstream dropped in a flash one Monday morning from 46 to 36 megs, and upstream from 7.5 to 3.

I reported it as a fault to PlusNet, they booked an Engineer visit, but the BT Engineer phoned me three days before he was due to arrive, he said a second cabinet was being added, and as part of that work, my connection (along with others) had been temporarily paralleled up to the new cabinet. They were having to re-route lots of pairs, he assured me it would all return to nornal when the work was completed, which it did, three weeks later. (in fact my u/s is now 8.1)

I did go and visit the cabinet, and yes, lots of work going on.

So, physically check nothing is happening at the cabinet before reporting any faults etc.

In reply to a post by R0NSKI:

Your current sync is well below the hand back threshold, so you may be lucky enough to get somewhere if you complain (pair swap perhaps), or they may just say you can leave without penalty.

However, the OP needs to note that if the coice is to move to a new provider then there is unl;ikely to be any improvement. And teh speed "guarantee" will be way lower.

I've already put back on Zen's supplied router and that syncs at 58Mbps and told Zen about it.

Zen want me to try out an alternative rj11 cable and filter to see if there's any change first. If not they will send out an engineer, but will charge me £130 if no fault is found. I'm not sure whether to accept or not.

I think I've tried everything, the test socket and switching off nearby equipment surrounding the telephone socket and modem. Edit: And also tested a direct connection with some sort of small phone to rj11 adapter with different cable - same sync still.

Edited by Aaron_01 (Mon 01-Apr-19 14:58:00)

That's incorrect of Zen to say that.
It's £130 if the issue is on your side of the master socket.

You're syncing considerably below the estimates and there should be zero charge for no fault found.

Poor show Zen.

Ah ok, so if they find crosstalk from one of the neighbours affecting me will it be considered a "fault" and I won't be charged? This is part of the message I've pasted, maybe I did read it wrong

If you have not tried an alternative filter and cable please do so and advise us of the results, assuming they have not helped then we would want to send an engineer out to take a look.

Before we send an engineer out we need to make you aware that there are a few circumstances in which you would be expected to pay the cost of the engineer visit. If the engineer finds that there is nothing wrong with the line up to the test socket, or if the problem is caused by damage to the line within your property (including garden), or your equipment or internal wiring you would be expected to pay for the visit. If there is nobody present to allow them access when they arrive within a previously confirmed by you time slot you would be expected to pay a missed visit charge.

To proceed with raising the fault we would need a number of things from you; firstly you must fill in the below agreement to confirm you will pay any of the above mentioned engineer charges if they apply in your case.

I, [named contact name], confirm I have been advised by Zen Internet Limited of the risks in terms of potential costs and delays in fault resolution arising from submission of a Broadband fault report to BT, by Zen Internet Limited.

I agree to accept any charges resulting from BT engineer visits to my premises - and am aware each engineer charge issued will be £130+VAT should no fault be found or if my own equipment or wiring is deemed to be the cause, or if damage to the line within my property is deemed to be the cause. If the engineer is not able to gain access, there will be a charge of £85 +VAT.

Zen Internet Limited will assess any charges issued by BT and determine if they are valid, based on the engineer's notes and detail of what happened on the visit. Before issuing charges to me, Zen Internet Limited will dispute any found to be invalid with BT.



Signed,

You're below the handback threshold.
You're below the minimum estimate.

Zen are entitled to ask OpenReach to attempt to get your speed back up as that's what OpenReach sold Zen.
Zen wouldn't be charged (so wouldn't need to charge you) if no fault is found.

It's not necessarily crosstalk. Could be an actual fault.

A decent ISP will push OpenReach to try a pair swap and/or port swap to get your speeds back up if there is no fault found.
If OpenReach can't or won't get the speeds back up to above the downstream handback threshold then you will be allowed to leave without charge.
All that with no charge to Zen. OpenReach are contracted to provide a minimum speed for your line and are not meeting that.

Thanks j0hn83

I believe that crosstalk will not be considered as a fault.

I�m not entirely sure I completely agree with John either. I believe some CP�s do pass charges on for FNF/RWT

They can't pass charges on that they aren't charged in the first place.

The line is well below the Minimum Guaranteed Access Line Speed (MGALS) and below the downstream handback threshold.

ISP's can and do charge for no fault found, but only when the line is within the spec.

Fair enough.

Engineer's come and gone, said he'll be back later. Found no fault in the property and he said it's an issue at the cabinet when he went to check. He installed a new Master Socket 5C faceplate while he was here

So a 2nd engineer came round earlier this week on Monday (as the previous engineer ran out of time), he said he'll be going to the cabinet to continue investigating. Got a text 2 hours later to say it's a faulty fibre port and will be fixed by a fibre specialist during the week. Now that's done according to my ISP today but sync speed is unchanged.

ISP now want to send out another engineer. I'm not sure where this is going or if it'll ever be resolved now.

If there's a faulty fibre port they usually just change your port.
Unless there's no free ports I see no reason why you need a "fibre specialist" whatever that's supposed to be.

Changing port will result in a short loss of sync. It's as simple as disconnecting 2 wires, connecting them to another 2 wires, and a quick call to update the routing.

Sync speed being unchanged means you've been fobbed off.
It would need a magician to change the tie cables without dropping sync.

Let the ISP send another engineer and insist a port change is put on the notes.

Not quite that quick and simple John, there will be downtime whilst the old port is assessed as faulty, and a new port is proved ..... the DCoE bod updates the routing, not the CSE.

My guess is that the first engineer had been sent out on a CDTA task, not an FTTC repair one.

In reply to a post by Aaron_01:

I'm not sure where this is going or if it'll ever be resolved now.

Sometimes it can take dozens of repeated engineer visits over many months to make progress, with conflicting information from different engineers (with many of them not reading the notes before the visit). Hang in there...

*with many of them not receiving any previous engineers notes

Fair enough, though often the notes were there when they bothered to look an hour into the visit &#128521; (after they�d run exactly the same tests that had been run the last six times, and the notes spelt out which length of cable needed to be replaced to resolve the problem).

I don�t really blame them, I�m sure they were trying to put off the actual expensive work needed to keep from upsetting their managers.

Another update:

3rd Engineer came round Tuesday 16th doing checks again at my test socket then went to cabinet. He came back and said another engineer will need to do work as he says all fibre ports are faulty. Work at cabinet was completed on the 25th but this only bumped up my speed to 64Mbps (previously was at 61Mbps).

As it's still below minimum speeds, ISP are scheduling another engineer visit now, lol.

Edited by Aaron_01 (Fri 26-Apr-19 12:38:02)

Glad to see all incorrect talk of charges for "no fault found" have disappeared.
I hope the ISP persists and you get a satisfactory outcome.

If you check your address on https://my.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_... does it show FTTC as available or a waiting list?

It shows FTTC as available on the address check, why?

In reply to a post by Aaron_01:

It shows FTTC as available on the address check, why?

If there are no free ports it should really show a waiting list.

I'm not sure how the process works when there are faulty ports but as it is right now the system allows new FTTC orders when it shows "available".