FTTP- House to far from CBT for connectorized cable

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me if a property 200m from cbt would be eligible for the rural gigabit voucher scheme/ Community Fibre partnership. The houses near to the CBT are connected to FTTP. Openreach checker says ADSL2.

Thanks

Brian

In reply to a post by Brib:

Can anyone tell me if a property 200m from cbt would be eligible for the rural gigabit voucher scheme/ Community Fibre partnership. The houses near to the CBT are connected to FTTP. Openreach checker says ADSL2.

Hi Brian

The title of your thread and the content of your post don't seem to match.

Are you asking about being connected to a CBT's 200m away or are you asking about the rural gigabit voucher scheme / Community Fibre partnership?

There would be no charge to connect you to a CBT 200m away if it is intended for your property.

A Community Fibre Partnership involves a whole build and won't see you connected to an already in place CBT.
It would be noticed during the CFP survey that you are within reach of a CBT that has free ports.

If you're surrounded by more properties than there are ports free on the CBT then it likely isn't intended for you.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

There would be no charge to connect you to a CBT 200m away if it is intended for your property.

A Community Fibre Partnership involves a whole build and won't see you connected to an already in place CBT.
It would be noticed during the CFP survey that you are within reach of a CBT that has free ports.

If you're surrounded by more properties than there are ports free on the CBT then it likely isn't intended for you.

Thank you John.

That's answered my question perfectly. No point in asking those two properties. Not eligible.

Hi Dect,

Sorry, I was asking if the property would be covered under CFP.
Checker says FTTP not available, but there's a cbt on the pole the phone line comes from all be it 200m away spanned on 4 poles

Thanks for repyling.

Brian

In reply to a post by Brib:

Can anyone tell me if a property 200m from cbt would be eligible for the rural gigabit voucher scheme/ Community Fibre partnership. The houses near to the CBT are connected to FTTP. Openreach checker says ADSL2.

If the checker says ADSL2 only, then that CBT is not available for use by your property. A new CBT would have to be installed.

It is possible to get this by ordering FTTP On Demand. The rural gigabit voucher will be usable for that, as long as you meet the voucher terms - typically that your current speed is below a certain threshold, which it almost certainly is if you can only get ADSL.

Unfortunately, the typical ballpark price for FTTP on Demand is £8,000+VAT, although it varies widely, plus you'll pay a bit more than normal FTTP for your first 12 months of service.

You can get a free desktop indicative quote. However it will cost you a non-refundable £250+VAT for a survey to get an accurate quote for your location, after which you have 30 days to accept the quote and pay the balance, or let the order lapse.

You *might* be lucky, and the survey finds that the splitter which serves that CBT is correctly located to connect a new CBT for you, which ought to be a relatively simple and cheap install. Or they might even decide that you can be served from the existing CBT, in which case they'll just update their records so that you can order FTTP. But it's also quite possible that FTTPoD would involve installing a new splitter and running a backhaul all the way back to the nearest Fibre Aggregation Node, which could be very expensive.

There's certainly no harm in requesting the free desktop quote though. Try Cerberus as a starting point.

Edited by candlerb (Mon 05-Oct-20 17:09:33)

If the FTTP was installed as part of a BDUK project then it may well have only been scoped to serve properties with a sub 24Mbps FTTC service. Your signature says you get 53Mbps on FTTC.

You can check this if you look at what is available for each of the addresses.

Where are you situated as this may help work out what is going on. As others have rightly pointed out that the CBT ports are mapped to houses, so there are cut offs.

Are you connected to the same copper dp as the premises 200m away ?

Hi AL66,

That signature is mine. This is down the road, exchange only line gets 5Mbps on adsl.
Thanks for the suggestion.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Are you connected to the same copper dp as the premises 200m away ?

That's a good question, that's probably the reason.
The line comes from that pole with the cbt on it, but the drop to the house comes off the pole in the field next to the house, it does have the same box on the pole as the other pole for the copper line. Comes to the house next door too. The phone line uses the power line poles part of the way.

Hi Candlerb,

That's probably right that the CBT is not available to the property.
Openreach might say it needs 5 new poles and a CBT to get the 200m.

thanks for the suggestion.

In reply to a post by Brib:

Hi Candlerb,

That's probably right that the CBT is not available to the property.
Openreach might say it needs 5 new poles and a CBT to get the 200m.

thanks for the suggestion.

special order cable can go 300m plus

If this CBT isn't for you, forget the figure of 200m.
They can't extend from the CBT to you.

They need to install you a new CBT from the existing splitter node, and only if that has capacity.

If the splitter doesn't have capacity (they do up to 32 homes) then you might need new fibre from the aggregation node, a new splitter and a new CBT installed.

All rollouts end somewhere.

Does the OpenReach.com checker indicate any plans for your address?

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 05-Oct-20 21:15:21)

He seems to be talking about two addresses which is confusing or the house in question is not his own[friend/family member].

Yes, neighbours house.

FTTP not available , or FTTC. 6Mbps download. ADSL exchange only,

two ports free on 4 port CBT and two houses left to take a service, if it were available.

As said, if CBT doesn’t serve your property (if it did serve you, it would show under the address checker as FTTP available to order) then you won’t be able to connect to it.

“My” CBT which was put in for our FTTPoD service now enables my nearest two neighbours served by the same pole to order native FTTP should they so desire, however my next neighbour 50m further up the road only has FTTPoD available to order. As expected really.

In reply to a post by Brib:

FTTP not available , or FTTC. 6Mbps download. ADSL exchange only,

I just realised that technically rules out the FTTPoD approach - it is only available to "customers who are within a Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) exchange area and are served by a FTTC enabled cabinet".

Since this property is *so* close to the FTTP network, it could still be worth trying to request the free desktop survey anyway and see what happens. Just don't be surprised if "computer says no".

The other thing you should do is to talk to BT about USO, because the speed available is less than the USO 10Mbps level. Don't be surprised if they try to fob you off with a 4G SIM. However it's *possible* they will extend the FTTP network, and indeed they'll absorb a big chunk of the cost (from memory, the first £3,400) and may include other nearby properties at the same time.

There is "assumed demand aggregation", so that if 5 properties will benefit they'll assume 70% takeup, and hence 5 x £3,400 x 0.7 is up for grabs from the USO fund.

Thanks for your replies.

They have been really helpful.

A bit of an odd situation.

I thought the FTTP had been installed under the USO, but couldn't understand why the last two properties on the line didn't get FTTP.

I have a CFP just started with me and 3 other properties interested at the moment. All on one DP pole. All on FTTC with speeds better than me.

I am considering including the two neighbours houses, I have asked about too bring total up to 6.

Hence the question would they be eligible for rural gigabit vouchers.

I didn't want to rasie their hopes if there was no chance. 5 to 6Mbps isn't much these days.

A BTOR manager told me a pre-connectorised cable-tail, (350mtrs maximum) from CBT to premises are available.

In reply to a post by Brib:

I have a CFP just started with me and 3 other properties interested at the moment. All on one DP pole. All on FTTC with speeds better than me.

I am considering including the two neighbours houses, I have asked about too bring total up to 6.

Hence the question would they be eligible for rural gigabit vouchers.

You're saying that of 4 properties served by the same copper DP, 3 have FTTC but yours is exchange-only? This is weird. Maybe your line was missed, and could be rerouted via the cabinet. People on this forum have managed to get that done, but it's a painful process.

Better to carry on with the CFP process - the end result will be far better anyway.

Regarding gigabit vouchers, the rules vary by area, nicely summarised here:
https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/sites/all/PDF/Gig...

In general they require your existing speed to be under either 100M or 30M - which is certainly true for you, but it may or may not be true for your neighbours on FTTC.

All voucher applicants must commit to taking an FTTP service which is a "step change", meaning at least double their current speed and at least 30M. Plus you have to meet the relevant definition of "rural" of course.

The fact that there's an existing CBT 200m away, which serves different properties, is completely irrelevant - except that having existing FTTP network close by may mean a better chance that the CFP build cost comes in under your voucher budget.

none of this makes any sense, i suspect the CFP process will shake out what is happening. The point is that this house is not his but a friends' and Brib's is 200m away with 59mbits. something is wrong.

Maybe a diagram will help (or make matters worse- i'm not sure). I think the combination of brib's explanation(in bits) and standard forum blindness, means we aren't getting things right.

In reply to a post by Taras:

none of this makes any sense

This thread is very very confusing 🤯

Sorry it's confusing.

I'm not 200m from him. I'm 800m away on same exchange but I'm on FTTC on a cabinet.
I didn't ever get 59Mbps, although it would have been nice. Did once sync at 55000.

No, it's not my house, it's a neighbour. A good 10 mins away walking. There is one house between us. I've been to look this morning every pole has electricity on it, the phone is just spanned on those poles.

In reply to a post by Taras:

none of this makes any sense, i suspect the CFP process will shake out what is happening.

I think you are right. It will be the only way to know.

I just wondered, if anyone else had experience of something like this.

Sorry again. Thanks for trying to help.

Yes they are ..... but they ought to be connected to a CBT that is planned for that properties use.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

You're saying that of 4 properties served by the same copper DP, 3 have FTTC but yours is exchange-only? This is weird. Maybe your line was missed, and could be rerouted via the cabinet. People on this forum have managed to get that done, but it's a painful process.

Better to carry on with the CFP process - the end result will be far better anyway.

Regarding gigabit vouchers, the rules vary by area, nicely summarised here:
https://www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk/sites/all/PDF/Gig...

In general they require your existing speed to be under either 100M or 30M - which is certainly true for you, but it may or may not be true for your neighbours on FTTC.

All voucher applicants must commit to taking an FTTP service which is a "step change", meaning at least double their current speed and at least 30M. Plus you have to meet the relevant definition of "rural" of course.

The fact that there's an existing CBT 200m away, which serves different properties, is completely irrelevant - except that having existing FTTP network close by may mean a better chance that the CFP build cost comes in under your voucher budget.

No I'm not exchange only. I'm on FTTC 35Mbps down 6.5 up.
It will be no trouble doubling it. Fibre 100 maybe.

Maybe we should end this thread?

I'll post and tell everyone what the outcome is.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes they are ..... but they ought to be connected to a CBT that is planned for that properties use.

Do you think it's because the poles are not Openreach? Hence not planned?

There are only 4 houses to the CBT, two are connected as they are close to the CBT two are not, everything else is fields.

Thanks to APTMAN re: 350m connectorised cable

Edited by Brib (Tue 06-Oct-20 13:04:34)

In reply to a post by Brib:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yes they are ..... but they ought to be connected to a CBT that is planned for that properties use.

Do you think it's because the poles are not Openreach? Hence not planned?

There are only 4 houses to the CBT, two are connected as they are close to the CBT two are not, everything else is fields.

Thanks to APTMAN re: 350m connectorised cable

I’m going to reserve all judgement. There appears to be a fair deal of ‘misinformation’ floating around in this thread.

CBT’s will have addresses they are designed to cover. There’s a full fibre estate just down the road from me, it doesn’t therefore follow that I can just demand a connection off of one of their CBT’s.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

.

I’m going to reserve all judgement. There appears to be a fair deal of ‘misinformation’ floating around in this thread.

CBT’s will have addresses they are designed to cover. There’s a full fibre estate just down the road from me, it doesn’t therefore follow that I can just demand a connection off of one of their CBT’s.

Fair enough, a wise choice.

just to be aware most unlikely that openreach would accept a CFP for a single property (you are not a community) -- that would need to be a fibre of Demand offer

the CBT needs to be no more that 160 metres from premises (150 out and 10 in) any thign else wont work

this thread is very confusing and not sure really what the length of CBT even has to do with it

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

the CBT needs to be no more that 160 metres from premises (150 out and 10 in) any thign else wont work

Incorrect.

The connectorised cables from CBT to property come in lengths from 33m (maybe smaller available now?) all the way to 350m.

There's now CSP's being deployed again making the reach even further than before.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 07-Oct-20 00:51:22)

In reply to a post by Brib:

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me if a property 200m from cbt would be eligible for the rural gigabit voucher scheme/ Community Fibre partnership. The houses near to the CBT are connected to FTTP. Openreach checker says ADSL2.

Thanks

Brian

Brian - have you approached the folks who are connected to the CBT to find out how they came about their FTTP connections?

Are there any other premises connected by the same spine of cabling serving that CBT? It could be that it’s actually not part of a FTTP rollout and simply and On Demand FTTP connection just for those propertie(s).

Edited to add - if the premises you would like to get FTTP is already getting FTTC, then you may wish to get a (free) desktop quote for FTTP On Demand - that may in some way guide or inform your thinking whether that’s viable or potentially any other further scheme or vouchers etc.

Also your original question and subsequent chat about distance to existing CBT and whether connectorised or indeed other connection is available/possible to you is all a bit of a red herring. This should not really be used to inform you of any possibility, ease, reduced cost etc of your possible future connection - other than giving you a warm fuzzy feeling that there is some FTTP in the vicinity.

Edited by Pheasant (Wed 07-Oct-20 07:43:46)

what lengst it comes in is nether here nor there - my point still stands

In reply to a post by Fastman3:

what lengst it comes in is nether here nor there - my point still stands

What point would that be? I don't see any valid points in your post, mainly garbage.

You said they can't get a CFP for a single property. They never said they were asking for a single property but multiple times have said it's numerous properties.

You advised they would need to get FTTPoD instead. They have stated multiple times the main priority in question is an EO line so cannot use FTTPoD.

You then posted further incorrect info about distance limits from CBT to ONT. The reality is the distance possible is over double what you claimed.

I'm not even sure you took the time to read the thread.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Brian - have you approached the folks who are connected to the CBT to find out how they came about their FTTP connections?

Are there any other premises connected by the same spine of cabling serving that CBT? It could be that it’s actually not part of a FTTP rollout and simply and On Demand FTTP connection just for those propertie(s).

Edited to add - if the premises you would like to get FTTP is already getting FTTC, then you may wish to get a (free) desktop quote for FTTP On Demand - that may in some way guide or inform your thinking whether that’s viable or potentially any other further scheme or vouchers etc.

Also your original question and subsequent chat about distance to existing CBT and whether connectorised or indeed other connection is available/possible to you is all a bit of a red herring. This should not really be used to inform you of any possibility, ease, reduced cost etc of your possible future connection - other than giving you a warm fuzzy feeling that there is some FTTP in the vicinity.

No, but I will ask about the FTTP connections. I'm almost certain FTTPod was not available. Then it said FTTP on the way, as most properties had less than 10Mbps,approximate distance from the exchange 1.5km.

There are 17 properties on the same post code which shows up as Openreach native FTTP and these two can't get anthing but ADSL. Which is what the other properties used to receive as they were direct to the exchange.

OK got it. All of the 17 properties, including the 2 now connected to that CBT were all previously just EO connected. There is/was no nearby cabinet and no FTTC available. Before FTTP “appeared” the best they could get was ADSL2.

Presumably this is the same connectivity for this other property that is 200m away from the fated CBT?

I’m slow, bear with me

I had a look at Brian's previous posts, and from that i'm gustinmating that Brain's friend sadly got missed because it was a fttpod install. Theres only about 6 postcodes with native fttp around him. I can understand why brian didn't want explain further.

If others are wishing to have fttp around him and have been missed cfp may be the route to go as the infrastructure is now there.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

OK got it. All of the 17 properties, including the 2 now connected to that CBT were all previously just EO connected. There is/was no nearby cabinet and no FTTC available. Before FTTP “appeared” the best they could get was ADSL2.

Presumably this is the same connectivity for this other property that is 200m away from the fated CBT?

I’m slow, bear with me

Yes, he gets about 4Mbps down.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I had a look at Brian's previous posts, and from that i'm gustinmating that Brain's friend sadly got missed because it was a fttpod install. Theres only about 6 postcodes with native fttp around him. I can understand why brian didn't want explain further.

If others are wishing to have fttp around him and have been missed cfp may be the route to go as the infrastructure is now there.

I just checked with one of the ones that got FTTP, no it wasn't FTTPOD.

Most of the native FTTP postcodes where either EO lines or really long lines. sub 4Mbps.

Even the postcodes that show as native FTTP, some are a single EO line with same postcode properties on a cabinet.

I don’t think you’ve told us where the property is? Postcode of the general area would do. Seems likely to me the existing FTTP is the result of a BDUK project - if so you need to contact the relevant project to see if they can tell you the status of the ADSL only property you’re interested in and why it’s not been included so far.

How long ago did the existing FTTP appear? It maybe the install for the area isn’t completely finished yet.

What does the openreach.com availability tool say for the address under ‘FTTP’? It will either say ‘no plans, etc’ or ‘ Faster and more reliable fibre is coming to your area soon. etc’.

In reply to a post by AL66:

I don’t think you’ve told us where the property is? Postcode of the general area would do. Seems likely to me the existing FTTP is the result of a BDUK project - if so you need to contact the relevant project to see if they can tell you the status of the ADSL only property you’re interested in and why it’s not been included so far.

How long ago did the existing FTTP appear? It maybe the install for the area isn’t completely finished yet.

What does the openreach.com availability tool say for the address under ‘FTTP’? It will either say ‘no plans, etc’ or ‘ Faster and more reliable fibre is coming to your area soon. etc’.

Thanks AL66

The postcode is ST10 3BD

Late 2019 I think. Maybe early this year, Jan/Feb

DSL checker says FTTP not available

max observed 14.3 down 0.83 up ADSL 2

I'm sure 4Mbps was mentioned not 14. Well that's the USO below below 10meg out of the window.

Like you said BDUK then.

Openreach fibre says we don't have plans for your area.

Doh! Well at least we know he will be eligible for the Rural vouchers.

The house on the CBT says of course FTTP available.

Are large parts of that area part of a private estate by any chance? If so, there might be wayleave issues going on and maybe the owner has refused permission for Openreach to do any works?

Have a look here: Superfast Staffordshire

Post deleted by busterboy

Believe it was BDUK funded, no big estate as a rural postcode.

Didn’t mean a housing estate! Looks like quite a few of the properties in the area might be within the grounds of a stately home.

Either way, I think the OP needs to speak to ‘Superfast Staffordshire’ to find out what’s going on. Maybe it’s as simple as a database error.

In reply to a post by AL66:

Are large parts of that area part of a private estate by any chance? If so, there might be wayleave issues going on and maybe the owner has refused permission for Openreach to do any works?

Have a look here: Superfast Staffordshire

Yes, it is. A good sugestion. It's not that though. Openreach didn't even ask, So I assume it was never intended to be included.I can't understand why though,as some of the other properties are at least as far off the road.

It was the ADSL2 that got put on via USO, to lift download speeds.

If I wanted to find out about Structure Oakamoor V32 26th July 2019 completion from the Superfast Staffordshire Live Structure List. Who would I ask?
I will contact them first.

I saw that list, looked like it was listing FTTC cabinets. You won’t have one of those.

Their map claims the whole area is covered, so you just need to get a coherent conversation going with them. If that doesn’t work try contacting your local MP.

The V denotes a bit of FTTP infrastructure and if its on poles you might even find the same number at a splitter.

In first instance its a talk with the superfast staffs people

The list is dated September 2018 so not going to show anything more recent?

What does the’V’ signify? A virtual cabinet number area maybe?

Exactly what the V signifies don't know, but have seen them used on the lists the BDUK projects publish and also on some bits of kit in the wild

Good evening All,

Have sent an email to Superfast Staffordshire so I will wait their reply and report developments.

Thank you for your help.