Process for changing from FTTC to FTTP

I have FTTC (Vodafone) which will be out of contract this month, coincidentally when FTTP should become available to order. As part of the process, I would like retain my landline number, but switch it to VOIP.

I understand that this can be done, but needs to be in the correct sequence to avoid loss of the landline number.
Will the following work, or is there an alternative/better method?

1. When available, order FTTP (without phone line) from Zen, but not migrating the FTTC and so retain the landline number
2. When FTTP is active, switch the landline to a VOIP provider (A&A), which will then cease the FTTC

Thanks
Adrian

Edited by Micro (Wed 04-Aug-21 18:55:25)

Yes that's the recommended way to do it and should achieve the required result.

That is what I am doing halfway doing, the FTTP is installed and been running reliably for a couple of weeks.

I have set up the Zen provided FritzBox for VOIP on a Sipgate basic account and confirmed it works as I have a better router connected to FTTP so using the FritzBox as client of that via wi-fi

Now just got to start transfer process of current phone number to cancel FTTC

Many thanks to both for the confirmation

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

Yes that's the recommended way to do it and should achieve the required result.

Can I assume that is also the correct way if my current, out-of-contract, FTTC provider is the same as my chosen FTTP provider? (Zen in both cases)

Edited by Sandgrounder (Fri 06-Aug-21 12:15:22)

In reply to a post by Sandgrounder:

Can I assume that is also the correct way if my current, out-of-contract, FTTC provider is the same as my chosen FTTP provider? (Zen in both cases)

Yes. Just make sure to tell Zen that you want FTTP as a new service, and not a regrade of your existing service. When you get the landline number ported the FTTC/landline will be cancelled but the FTTP will be unaffected.

In reply to a post by s_b:

Yes. Just make sure to tell Zen that you want FTTP as a new service, and not a regrade of your existing service.

Thanks for the tip about the new service.

I put in for porting of telephone number to voip last night and now have the sorry your leaving email from current provider (plusnet) - so that works as expected

Would be great if you could post an update on how Plusnet handle the leaving (billing and whether it did successfully cancel both voice and fttc) and if the number porting works as expected? TIA

When I moved to FTTP I did the same (with Plusnet)

It successfully ceased all services and I received a final bill as expected.

Edited by kjwkjw (Sun 08-Aug-21 11:17:10)

I started process Thursday Evening (after confirming I could get it working on my setup) PlusNet had sent out email saying sorry leaving on Friday with end date this Friday and VOIP (A&A) has confirmed it was accepted today.

Number ported as expected - Waiting for PlusNet bill etc.

Thanks for the update.

A&A are on my list to be considered
I am also considering Sipgate Basic mainly because there is no ongoing charge.

Sipgate Basic probably makes more sense for me as I hardly use the landline but I am not sure on customer service / experience compared to A&A.

As Plusnet billing fills me with dread please post how it goes. Perhaps the billing issues are getting better at Plusnet now.

I am on Sipgate basic for 3 years now, loaded £10 when old number ported and still got £9.90 and no other charges. Service works well for incoming, I have set it up to email missed calls to one address and voicemail to another. Can't comment on outgoing as never use it.

I have both SipGate & A&A - As SipGate is free except calls it was a good way of testing equipment before making the final move.

SipGate is definitely a slicker website - one disadvantage I saw with Sipgate is that need to login/make call every 3 month link which I might forget to do

In reply to a post by Kenneth:

SipGate is definitely a slicker website - one disadvantage I saw with Sipgate is that need to login/make call every 3 month link which I might forget to do

Certainly handy to know as I have not seen that mentioned before.

Although it’s written, in practise it doesn’t happen. I’ve been with Sipgate for almost ten years and have five Basic subs/numbers. None have ever been ‘cutoff’. It’s not worth worrying about.

Hi all

I'm about to go through this process myself.

I have FTTP being installed on the 20th September - TalkTalk "Future Fibre" 500Mbps package.

My current FTTC package (with JohnLewis broadband) comes to a contractual end on the 5th October, so will be planning on asking for the port to be done (to Sipgate basic) on or just after that.

Are there any 'gotchas' to be aware of with the forms for Sipgate or their process?
I'm feeling a little paranoid about it going wrong because I will get a whole shedload of grief from my wife if it messes up

The "Letter of Authorisation" is straightforward enough, but there are questions on the "Customer Port Details" one that are somewhat confusing.
e.g. "Associated Billing Numbers" - I assume that on a standard (single number) residential connection I do not have to populate this.
Also, on the "Sipgate Account Details" section...why do they need both the account number and the current Sipgate VOIP number I already have? Surely the account number alone is sufficient?

Thanks!

In reply to a post by MilesR:

Also, on the "Sipgate Account Details" section...why do they need both the account number and the current Sipgate VOIP number I already have? Surely the account number alone is sufficient?

Presumably because you might have multiple Sipgate numbers.

I'm sure it'll be fine. Clearly you already have a Sipgate account and it's tested and working. So on the port day, either incoming calls will start coming to your Sipgate account and the JLBB will be ceased; or nothing will happen and your number will stay on the PSTN, in which case you can try again, with Sipgate or with a different VOIP provider.

That’s correct. If you already have a sipgate basic account, the new ported in number will be added to the same account and both numbers will route the same way on inbound calls. On outbound calls from the account the ‘native’ sipgate provided number will be used as the CID.

Post deleted by sounds2k

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

That’s correct. If you already have a sipgate basic account, the new ported in number will be added to the same account and both numbers will route the same way on inbound calls. On outbound calls from the account the ‘native’ sipgate provided number will be used as the CID.

Not entirely true, if you go to app.sipgate.com and login, then go to routing -> phones -> caller ID and click the gear icon, you can set the number sent on outbound calls there.

Not in my portal its not.

Can you please screen-shot yours?

Thanks for the reassurance, I'm sure it'll be fine (fingers crossed!)

OK after further digging, I discovered that in my account this feature was not enabled by default.

I had to firstly go into the Feature Store and check on the Caller-ID feature. Like so. Somewhat counter intuitive that, as I have always had Caller-ID working so thought no more about explicitly selecting it again in the Feature Store.

Once that was done, I was able to see a new Caller ID row appear in the Device Settings area of Phones and the associated gear icon. Previously this row didn't exist.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 05-Sep-21 20:53:05)

No worries, I must have enabled that without even thinking about it. I will be porting my landline number to sipgate later this week, so that's where you can set its' number to be used on outgoing calls. I even set it to send that number before it's been ported as a test - and that worked too.

To be fair they may be enabling the feature on new accounts by default now.

My original Sipgate account is around ten years old now, and I last did a number port to them more than 3 years ago in 2018. In that time the look and feel of the user portal and feature set has changed somewhat.

Good luck with the number port and the new service.

Slightly off topic I know, but you can just imagine the carnage there will be trying to get a lot of 'older' folk off the PSTN to VOIP based setups. Especially those with no broadband currently (of which there will be quite a few I'm sure).

It's hard enough to manage when you're fairly IT literate, let alone if you know nothing about broadband etc.
I honestly can't believe that 2025 is a realistic timeframe for OpenReach to achieve this.

In reply to a post by MilesR:

Slightly off topic I know, but you can just imagine the carnage there will be trying to get a lot of 'older' folk off the PSTN to VOIP based setups. Especially those with no broadband currently (of which there will be quite a few I'm sure).

It has not just been imagined, it has been trialled in Salisbury (FTTP) and Mildenhall (FTTC), and it's being rolled out nationally.

For those with no broadband, new SOGEA and FTTP products with 0.5Mbps up and down are being released.

Certainly, the CP will have to provide a router, and someone will have to plug it in, and plug their phone into the router. For those who aren't comfortable doing it themselves, I expect assistance will be available.

I would compare this to the TV analogue to digital switchover, and that was completed successfully.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

For those with no broadband, new SOGEA and FTTP products with 0.5Mbps up and down are being released.

Certainly, the CP will have to provide a router, and someone will have to plug it in, and plug their phone into the router. For those who aren't comfortable doing it themselves, I expect assistance will be available.

Also SOTAP, although how well it will perform on miles of corroded aluminium in the middle of nowhere with no mobile coverage as an alternative will be interesting. (I know of areas which have no mobile coverage from any network on ~6.5km of poor condition cable)

Other than BT Retail, with whom I would expect the majority of phone-only customers to be, are there any signs of other providers being interested in providing voice-only services?

And have there been any suggestions of what rental costs may be compared with existing voice-only line rental?

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Other than BT Retail, with whom I would expect the majority of phone-only customers to be, are there any signs of other providers being interested in providing voice-only services?

There is of course the USO, so I would hope that the regulator ensures no loss of service during the technology change.

Unfortunately I've received that email from JohnLewis Broadband, which must have been initiated by TalkTalk (despite me telling them I wanted a new FTTP install, and absolutely no transfer of existing service).
Now have to do the song & dance with them & JohnLewis tomorrow to ensure that I don't lose the existing service before I have a chance to port the number to Sipgate.

It has not just been imagined, it has been trialled in Salisbury (FTTP) and Mildenhall (FTTC), and it's being rolled out nationally.

For those with no broadband, new SOGEA and FTTP products with 0.5Mbps up and down are being released.

Certainly, the CP will have to provide a router, and someone will have to plug it in, and plug their phone into the router. For those who aren't comfortable doing it themselves, I expect assistance will be available.

I would compare this to the TV analogue to digital switchover, and that was completed successfully.

Fair enough, I am perhaps too cynical

Edited by MilesR (Mon 06-Sep-21 20:24:08)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Certainly, the CP will have to provide a router, and someone will have to plug it in, and plug their phone into the router. For those who aren't comfortable doing it themselves, I expect assistance will be available.

It is more complex than that if there is more than one wired phone.

Modern router with a low REN on its FXS port may struggle with a house full of ancient analogue handsets.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Modern router with a low REN on its FXS port may struggle with a house full of ancient analogue handsets.

In this context, the only router which matters is the BT Smarthub - since the people who buy a voice-only phone line will be primarily those who don't know they can buy it from anyone other than BT.

I see the question has been asked, but I see no definitive answer as to the REN provided by the FXS port on the Smarthub:
* https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Dig...
* https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4168506-ren-...
* https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/blog/the-end-o...

I very much doubt it will be a problem in the majority of installations, and in the unlikely case that it is, the solution will be either "unplug one of your phones" or "buy a BT extension booster".

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

It is more complex than that if there is more than one wired phone.

And in the digital TV switchover, some houses required their external antenna to be replaced.

At least changing the NTE to do voice reinjection doesn't require climbing on the roof

I don’t think you can buy those BT extension boosters any more? Never had one admittedly but would be quite odd for them to keep selling an accessory as an adjunct for a soon to be defunct PSTN infrastructure 😎

Some providers will sidestep the issue by advising their users to only connect a single phone to the router, as on this recent thread in the Hyperoptic section of the forum. Although the explanation of “phone signals colliding” by the Hyperoptic support fellow made me cringe!

I’d expect the main “easy” way out for CP’s would be to offer a DECT hub and handsets.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

At least changing the NTE to do voice reinjection doesn't require climbing on the roof

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Certainly, the CP will have to provide a router, and someone will have to plug it in, and plug their phone into the router. For those who aren't comfortable doing it themselves, I expect assistance will be available.

I'd expect in this instance 'granny' (unless she was a retired electronic engineer from QinetiQ) would definitely require assistance snipping the passives from the PCB of an NTE

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 07-Sep-21 08:29:09)

As indeed she did when her TV aerial needed replacement for the digital switchover. It's a non-problem: technicians can and will be sent out when required to provide assistance.

Who pays for it, and how it's organized, are the only details which matter.

It's an Openreach-driven migration and primarily affects BT retail residential customers. Since BT owns Openreach anyway, then presumably BT will end up paying in the end.

Yes agreed, like the digital TV switchover switchover, it wont necessarily be a seamless change for all customers.

Much like dTV switchover; customers will be expected to pay for any additional equipment /changes needed to keep using the service (as they have been used to) after the changeover - like the concept of "voice re-injection" (where supported by CP) and customer wants to keep using their internal cabled extensions operational after the retirement of PSTN, then changes needed would be at the customers risk and cost. I can't see BT or any other CP agreeing to gratis site visits across the board, just to do that.

In itself isn't a huge deal, but there are little nuances like this, where the specifics of the voice service of today, wont just work as it does after PSTN is retired. There are many benefits of VoIP, but here are also some pitfalls too.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

It is more complex than that if there is more than one wired phone.

And in the digital TV switchover, some houses required their external antenna to be replaced.

At least changing the NTE to do voice reinjection doesn't require climbing on the roof

Crystal Palace (London) stayed Group A, I always wondered if this was because London is the centre of much political power.

Is there a new filtered face plate to make it easier to connect extension wiring to a router VOIP port?

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

Is there a new filtered face plate to make it easier to connect extension wiring to a router VOIP port?

Yes - for NTE5c anyway.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/content/dam/cpp...

In cases where additional devices on home extension wiring need to be fed by the ATA, a special cable is needed to connect the ATA to the voice re-injection socket on the NTE5C SOGEA faceplate (see section 4.4.1). This SOGEA faceplate isolates the voice reinjection voltage from the Openreach network and is required to give reliable service from the ATA on analogue devices."

EDIT: see also https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/07/bt-who...

Edited by candlerb (Wed 08-Sep-21 12:12:02)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

It is more complex than that if there is more than one wired phone.

And in the digital TV switchover, some houses required their external antenna to be replaced.

At least changing the NTE to do voice reinjection doesn't require climbing on the roof

Funny enough a friend asked me about his DTV in 2017, he had rented the house out for many years but decided to move back there and couldn't get all the channels. For us on our transmitter you needed a large wideband aerial to get channel 5 in 1997, and also to get full range of channels on digital switch over which was 2011 around here. Turns out he still had the original band A aerial, for 20 years his tenants had not had the full range of channels.

thanks, all done now ... the confirmation email actually stated:

To change the number displayed on outgoing calls to your newly ported number you'll need to use the free Caller ID feature. The Caller ID feature can be added to your account in the Feature Store at: https://www.sipgate.co.uk/basic/feature-store/callerid

so we were on the right track