BT Smart Hub 2, no guest network...aaaargggg!!

I've just had bt fttp fibre installed which is now setup using the supplied Smart Hub 2 and digital phone handset.

However ive now found out that the Hub won't allow you to setup a separate guest network?

I've got 2 uni student daughters who visit with their mates and I'm worried that they'll bring all their digital infections with them, and I've recently had all my nas media files locked by malware, so annoying.

So any advice would be really appreciated.

Maybe I need to invest in a new wan wireless router?

In reply to a post by gjbrunsdon:

Maybe I need to invest in a new wan wireless router?

You can't replace the BT-supplied router, without losing your phone service entirely.

But you can connect a separate wireless access point (it doesn't need to be a router). You would need to configure it to allow access to the Internet but not to your internal private IP addresses, e.g. 192.168.x.x. I know that Unifi access points can do this - they can run up to 4 SSIDs, and you can set one of them to be a guest network.

If you do use an additional wireless router, that can work too: you connect the WAN of the guest router to the LAN on your own network, and the guests will be behind another layer of NAT (which you don't care about). But you *will* still need to configure it with a rule to block outgoing traffic to your private IP range.

You can set up separate SSIDs with Unifi but without VLANs is it not all just the same network still?

Install BT Wi-Fi apps on your daughters devices so they use that rather than your ssid to connect to the sh2.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

You can't replace the BT-supplied router, without losing your phone service entirely.

And this is the problem with this new digital voice thing, There need to be some way that people can change hardware if they want to and still have access to digital voice. This is like going back to the old days when we could not use anything unless it was supplied by the GPO, but with more providers.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

You can't replace the BT-supplied router, without losing your phone service entirely.

And this is the problem with this new digital voice thing, There need to be some way that people can change hardware if they want to and still have access to digital voice. This is like going back to the old days when we could not use anything unless it was supplied by the GPO, but with more providers.

If I've understood things correctly you have to use the BT supplied router to access the BT VoIP service but there is nothing to stop you using the router of your choice and migrating your existing phone number to one of the third-party VoIP providers.

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 27-Nov-22 10:49:29)

Correct. Doing the latter though will cease the BT account as the voice service is bundled with the broadband, so porting the number acts as account cease.

In reply to a post by smouty:

You can set up separate SSIDs with Unifi but without VLANs is it not all just the same network still?

I run several (manually designated) separate VLANs through my Ubiquiti APs, so those networks are fully segregated from one another - however UI have another one click "Guest Network" setting in network type which creates a somewhat restricted guest network, to quote from the portal manager:

"Your Guest Hotspot Profile will automatically be applied to this Guest Network. Connected clients will be isolated from all other internal networks. These restrictions can be modified in your Guest Hotspot Profile."

So the Guest Network setting provides an automated way to create a restricted guest network, although my understanding is that the restrictions not as thorough as using a fully separate VLAN for the same purpose (there are some security holes), but for most folks its good enough and simpler to setup and manage.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

If I've understood things correctly you have to use the BT supplied router to access the BT VoIP service but there is nothing to stop you using the router of your choice and migrating your existing phone number to one of the third-party VoIP providers.

That is not the point, i already use VoIP, so it makes no difference to me. The thing is now it is more hassle for people.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Correct. Doing the latter though will cease the BT account as the voice service is bundled with the broadband, so porting the number acts as account cease.
[/quote

I forgot about that, but yes that is true. Maybe they should bring out a unit that will connect to any router and allow people to use the phone service on any router. i know Out of reach have some sort of VOIP box for people that don't have broadband, can that fit onto another router or does connect directly to the phone line?

In reply to a post by smouty:

You can set up separate SSIDs with Unifi but without VLANs is it not all just the same network still?

When you select "Guest Hotspot" on an SSID, the UI responds:

"We have applied your Guest Hotspot Profile to this SSID. By default, connected clients will be isolated from all other internal networks. We have also enabled Client Device Isolation for this SSID."

The Guest Hotspot profile blocks access to 192.168.0.0/16, 172.16.0.0/12 and 10.0.0.0/8, unless you modify it.

Openreach do not provide dial tone services to FTTP customers or FTTC users in WLR withdrawal areas.

If you order just a phone line from BT you will get a low bandwidth NGA service provisioned with a Smart Hub 2.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I forgot about that, but yes that is true. Maybe they should bring out a unit that will connect to any router and allow people to use the phone service on any router. i know Out of reach have some sort of VOIP box for people that don't have broadband, can that fit onto another router or does connect directly to the phone line?

Yep it's called a SmartHub2 😉 and the service when fully launched will be based on the Openreach SOTAP product, basically a heavily bandwidth restricted DSL service, with voice that runs 'over the top' i.e. Digital Voice but no other broadband service available from the line.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

If I've understood things correctly you have to use the BT supplied router to access the BT VoIP service but there is nothing to stop you using the router of your choice and migrating your existing phone number to one of the third-party VoIP providers.

That is not the point, i already use VoIP, so it makes no difference to me. The thing is now it is more hassle for people.

It wasn't me that said "And this is the problem with this new digital voice thing, There need to be some way that people can change hardware if they want to and still have access to digital voice." I responded to that, not to whatever point you want to raise next as I don't have the gift of second sight to pre-empt your next averse to change rant.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Openreach do not provide dial tone services to FTTP customers or FTTC users in WLR withdrawal areas.

If you order just a phone line from BT you will get a low bandwidth NGA service provisioned with a Smart Hub 2.

i know they don't provide dial tone services to new customers in those areas, well, so they say, but i know that they have in the last 6 months,

I thought that there was an adapter just for digital voice,, but it turns out it still needs the BT hub thing, could they not give people something smaller who don't have broadband? I suppose most people who don't have broadband don't really have a phone line these days due to having mobile phones. I know for sure I would not have a phone line if I did not have broadband.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yep it's called a SmartHub2 😉 and the service when fully launched will be based on the Openreach SOTAP product, basically a heavily bandwidth restricted DSL service, with voice that runs 'over the top' i.e. Digital Voice but no other broadband service available from the line.

I realise that now. They should something smaller and more compact than that monstrosity.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

It wasn't me that said "And this is the problem with this new digital voice thing, There need to e some way that people can change hardware if they want to and still have access to digital voice." I responded to that, not to whatever point you want to raise next as I don't have the gift of second sight to pre-empt your next averse to change rant.

what the blazing hell are you on about?


Anyway, going back to the OP, if BT have taken out a way to have guests network, is that not going backwards? Like their routers are bloated anyway, so keeping guests network in is not going to take up a much more space, or do they need space for their bloat?

Edited by zyborg47 (Sun 27-Nov-22 14:43:30)

I believe they moved parental controls management from teh Hub to their App - have you checked on there?

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I realise that now. They should something smaller and more compact than that monstrosity.

It still needs to do nearly everything that the "monstrosity" does:
- routing/PPPoE
- ethernet uplink (for fibre ONT)
- ADSL/VDSL modem (for copper lines after WLR withdrawal)
- POTS ATA
- and/or DECT for cordless handsets

The only things it can drop are wifi and the LAN ports.

Given that (a) almost nobody buys a phone line without broadband these days, and (b) the device can be hidden away out of sight, I don't see any need for making a custom smaller version of the box. For that matter, a larger box will probably benefit from better ventilation.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

what the blazing hell are you on about?

Answering the point you wrote down not the next point that you want to pick on when you change your ground.

Let's all calm down a bit (and yes, I shouldn't have put in the bit about a rant). Anyway I've got 50 years of hurt with Hereford and Ronnie Bleeding Radford.

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 27-Nov-22 15:07:23)

Suppose for BT it also means any service upgrades to full broadband+voice don’t require another box.

Also as SOTAP is supposed to be “transitional” anyway. Not much point rolling out a a new/dedicated box for that.

You've answered your own question I think. Landline phone is now an add-on for broadband rather than broadband being a service delivered over the existing landline phone. Developing a device with just a telephone socket and a DECT base in it would be a waste of money, and doing things this way allows landline-only customers to 'upgrade' to broadband without any hardware needing to be changed.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Openreach do not provide dial tone services to FTTP customers or FTTC users in WLR withdrawal areas.

If you order just a phone line from BT you will get a low bandwidth NGA service provisioned with a Smart Hub 2.

Yes.
Where we had left BT for providing our broadband, so they gave us a 36-37Mbit (down) and 10-20Mbit (up) for our Digital Voice and sent us the Smart Hub 2 + 4 Digital Voice Adapters.

Paul

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I thought that there was an adapter just for digital voice, but it turns out it still needs the BT hub thing.

Yeah, I was hoping that I could just use those, and have one of them connected wirelessly to my own router but took a closer look at them and sadly it still requires the Smart Hub 2 to work.

Paul

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

...
so they gave us a 36-37Mbit (down) and 10-20Mbit (up) for our Digital Voice and sent us the Smart Hub 2
...

Wow. Could hardly call that a "low bandwidth" service, just to make calls on. That's m ore than a lot of people have for their sole broadband connection 😎😂

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

...
so they gave us a 36-37Mbit (down) and 10-20Mbit (up) for our Digital Voice and sent us the Smart Hub 2
...

Wow. Could hardly call that a "low bandwidth" service, just to make calls on. That's more than a lot of people have for their sole broadband connection 😎😂

Thats what I said to BT when I was on the phone to them when they messed up our switch over to Digital Voice.
They basically told me it's the lowest tier package they provide over Full Fibre, see I would have created a package for voice only or capped it at a lower speed, funny thing is we are not paying for any broadband and our overall price is lower.

I am guessing this speed may reduce once they switch us over to Digital Voice, due to BT contacted us stating we were to be moved over to Digital Voice on a set day, even got a call from them to arrange for a new Smart Hub 2 etc to be sent to us free of charge along with a start date.

Sadly, that start date came and went and only had the broadband activated (again broadband for phone only), so phoned BT and was told that our line is not ready for it yet and that none of this should have happened yet, so now we have broadband at those speeds just sitting there doing nothing and had to plug our phone cable back into the ONT and just wait.

One good thing from this is we are paying less for our phone service, so win, win.

Paul

Gosh they really aren't terribly joined up or organised when it comes to this changeover.

Only 8 million more lines to go BT...good grief 🙈

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Gosh they really aren't terribly joined up or organised when it comes to this changeover.

Only 8 million more lines to go BT...good grief 🙈

Oh, for sure, they also raised a complaint too, because I had pulled up the original phone cable from the ONT to the Mater Socket, I had to install and tack down new cable, then crimp on a new 431A connector to one end, for it to all then have to disconnect it all and temporary fall back to original cable and tack it back down so it is safe and then plug it back into the ONT.

Now just think if I had accepted BT's offer to send out an engineer to swap over and rewire that cable, to then have to swap it all back.

Don't get me wrong, I am not moaning, hell we are paying a lot less than we were just for the phone line, not that we will be using that broadband speed that they have given us.

Paul

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Gosh they really aren't terribly joined up or organised when it comes to this changeover.

Only 8 million more lines to go BT...good grief 🙈

On the flip side, I was moved to Digital Voice in September 2019 and it was very smooth, though I was already a BT Broadband customer.

Yep the 8 million was PSTN/voice circuits only. No broadband.

Although this figure from memory one of the recent BT Group quarterly reports (Openreach facts and figures section). But it was something of that ilk roughly.

You've got to assume a lot of that 8m figure is going to shift to LTE though, or in the case of alarms it will be a dual path ethernet/LTE. I can't see a lift emergency phone being hooked into the back of a BT Hub.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It still needs to do nearly everything that the "monstrosity" does:
- routing/PPPoE
- ethernet uplink (for fibre ONT)
- ADSL/VDSL modem (for copper lines after WLR withdrawal)
- POTS ATA
- and/or DECT for cordless handsets

The only things it can drop are wifi and the LAN ports.

Given that (a) almost nobody buys a phone line without broadband these days, and (b) the device can be hidden away out of sight, I don't see any need for making a custom smaller version of the box. For that matter, a larger box will probably benefit from better ventilation.

So if it doesn't need Ethernet ports, that can make it smaller and as for ventilation if all it is only doing low traffic, which, then it really doesn't need so much ventilation, in fact it can have a lower powered chip in.
you know why they are doing it, because they think these people will decide to go get broadband and it maybe cheaper to use the same hardware than produce a different type.
You may be right, there may not be that many people who just have a phone and no broadband these days, but there are some. Not many people use dial up, but until last year I knew off two households, now I just know of one, the other one have gone for mobile broadband.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

Answering the point you wrote down not the next point that you want to pick on when you change your ground.

Still not sure what you are on about.

Let's all calm down a bit (and yes, I shouldn't have put in the bit about a rant). Anyway I've got 50 years of hurt with Hereford and Ronnie Bleeding Radford.

Who?

In reply to a post by jpm:

You've answered your own question I think. Landline phone is now an add-on for broadband rather than broadband being a service delivered over the existing landline phone. Developing a device with just a telephone socket and a DECT base in it would be a waste of money, and doing things this way allows landline-only customers to 'upgrade' to broadband without any hardware needing to be changed.

I have not had a phone on my landline since it was reconnected when I first went with plusnet, I have a Linksys PAP and been using sipgate and have had them for a few years now and have been fine, even if the linksys have got a strange 2 pin power plug going into an adaptor.

I will keep the same setup if I change providers, but I am looking at moving it and maybe getting some new phones as mine are old BT DECT ones that are slowly dying.

you are right it would be a waste of money.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Yeah, I was hoping that I could just use those, and have one of them connected wirelessly to my own router but took a closer look at them and sadly it still requires the Smart Hub 2 to work.

Paul

such a shame, so what it looks like is that they convert the phone to DECT phones.

Sheez. Dialup in 2022. Wow. Why? 🙈

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Who?

Do a search for "1972 FA Cup Upset".

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sheez. Dialup in 2022. Wow. Why? 🙈

Very few ISPs offer it, probably only one or two left. Mobile broadband has mostly killed dialup.... but for those people on extremely (tens of KMs) lines, in remote Scotland, where no mobile signal, it may be only option. Got to be less than 100 homes surely?

That was about the only example I could think of theta could “legitimately” have a claim to dialup. Perhaps Adrian has some highlander mates.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

Yeah, I was hoping that I could just use those, and have one of them connected wirelessly to my own router but took a closer look at them and sadly it still requires the Smart Hub 2 to work.

Paul

such a shame, so what it looks like is that they convert the phone to DECT phones.

It wirelessly connects via the WPS Button and allows for up to 5 DECT Phones if I read it correctly.

Paul

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

That was about the only example I could think of theta could “legitimately” have a claim to dialup. Perhaps Adrian has some highlander mates.

Agreed... those whom think its a cheap option are unlikely to be aware of entry level mobile broadband...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Sheez. Dialup in 2022. Wow. Why? 🙈

Because FTTC is not available and ADSL was not possible either. As I said, one of the households have now gone onto mobile broadband as another mast was installed, so they can now get decent 4G. The other may also be able to get mobile broadband soon as there is talk of a new 5G mast being installed. Fibre was installed last year close to where they live, but it doesn't extend to where they are.
I miss dial up, like a hole in the head, but I do miss the sound

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

such a shame, so what it looks like is that they convert the phone to DECT phones.

It wirelessly connects via the WPS Button and allows for up to 5 DECT Phones if I read it correctly.

Paul


So it connects to the router via Wi-fi. Ok

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

The other may also be able to get mobile broadband soon as there is talk of a new 5G mast being installed. Fibre was installed last year close to where they live, but it doesn't extend to where they are.

OK. Surprised either party was not eligible under USO to get decent broadband.

USO generally results in 4G via EE if available, if not then costs to install a connection seem to normally be well above the amount that is allowed for within USO.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

So it connects to the router via Wi-fi. Ok

It uses the WPS button to perform the setup, but it's a DECT device, not Wi-Fi.

Yep. No ADSL and no LTE would make for a very, very remote or awkward to reach place. All we have is hearsay, so who knows (or really cares) about the nitty gritty.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It uses the WPS button to perform the setup, but it's a DECT device, not Wi-Fi.

That is strange, more non-standard bloat from BT.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

OK. Surprised either party was not eligible under USO to get decent broadband.

I presume because one of them live in the middle of woods, more or less and the other again live off the beaten track, but is closer to civilisation than the others. Saying that other half lives in the sticks and her house is surrounded by trees, but she still has fibre.

If you say so. You do come across quite negative in your posts.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I presume because one of them live in the middle of woods, more or less...

are you mates with Hansel and Gretel or a bear!

[just kidding 🙈😂]

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

It wirelessly connects via the WPS Button and allows for up to 5 DECT Phones if I read it correctly.

So it connects to the router via Wi-fi. Ok

I know the instruction steps points to it using Wi-Fi, I haven't tested them yet, but the Smart Hub 2 might also support DECT Devices.

I would try it on my own AP, sadly UniFi AP doesn't support WPS, so I would have to rename the Wi-Fi SSID to match my own AP, have it connect up to the SH2, then disable the SH2 Wi-Fi and in theory it should then auto connect to my AP.

Paul

It's not Wi-Fi. It's a DECT device.